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Help me plan my ELA for my rising 5th grader


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Hi,

Below is what we did this year and how it went. 

Reading : Lightening and Lit 4 (My son loved it and I was happy that it was working from him but we never used the writing part and for grammar he repeatedly said that he needed more practice and i could see it was not enough) ----- As much as we love it I'm positive we don't want to do this next yr, I looked into Glencoe lit guides and really like it. I have Figuratively language as well so a combo of this and Glencoe might work for Reading?? Any other ideas? Goals for this year would be for him to have some lit analysis exposure and have fun before things get serious in Middle Grades.

Writing : IEW Student Writing Intensive level A older version  (My son did seem to like the formulaic approach and it seemed to work fine. We finished this earlier in the year and i wanted to try WWE so we hopped onto WWE4. I've WWE3 for my younger one so I thought in case this is too hard I can move back to 3 but so far we're just under 10 weeks and it seem to work well.  I've been reading about Killgallon and Writing revolution which i think would be a good foundation especially with proper sentences. If I add this I will do it together with my 3rd grader hopefully it should work fine.  Treasured Conversations is also something I'm looking into since I know i can work with both of them together on it. Writing and Rhetoric is another one I looked into but somehow think that we would need more instructions than what is given in teacher's manual.) ------- Going to IEW next level would be fine but somehow I think he needs more explicit instructions on writing good sentences. Goals for this year would be to write good paragraphs.

Spelling : Didn't do much this year I was planning on having Word Roots (CTC) words as his spelling list but we never got it to that often. I bought AAS Level1 thinking we need to start there but it is way too easy and he keeps on asking for something at his level. -----Based on the 5th grade thread I was thinking of starting on R&S Spelling maybe level 3 with my younger one and then hopefully add in Word Roots Words.  Megawords is also something I was thinking. Goals for this year would be improve spelling as long we see progress throughout the year I'm good.

Vocabulary : WordlyWise (This is a success for my kids we started it middle of the year so still to complete it. My son said he got a word from this in his MAP test and was happy to know the meaning:-).On his MAP test he said they were asking for latin root of light which he has no idea.) ------- Based on the questions in MAP I'm thinking of adding in WordRoots more often and continue with WordlyWise next level whenever we finish his current book.  Goals for this year would be to focus on rootwords. 

 

Grammar : Lightening and Lit Grammar peice + Grammar Island (We needed more explanations and review than what was in LL so towards end of he year i bought DGP level 4. We never got to start it because my son resisted it very much but I' hoping it will just take time for him to get hang of the program. -------Based on 5th grade threads now I'm thinking of Analytical Grammar junior and some DGP added in if needed since i already have it. Goals for us would be to have foundation set for grammar and keep it rolling.

 

In my dream world I would love to add all MCT components (since grammar island was a big success with him and he seemed to grasp it pretty well.) 

Also with my 3rd grader I'm using pathway readers and like it but I don't see it mentioned a lot in upper elementary.  So not really sure if we can use it for Reading.

Any other suggestions are also welcome!!  Thank you for reading and making it to the end despite all the grammatical errors:-).

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I have a rising 5th grader, too, and we're going to use Voyages in English 5 for grammar and some writing.  It is super school-y but I just like it, and it has worked well with all three of my kids in late elementary/early middle school.  

I have been looking through the Don't Forget to Write books, which are very appealing and have some good projects.   We'll definitely do some poetry study/writing using the Kenneth Koch books (Wishes, Lies, and Dreams; Rose, Where Did You Get That Red?).  And NaNoWriMo in November -- this kid loves creative writing.  

 

Edited by JennyD
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I don't use reading curricula with mine beyond learning how to read. We just read high quality children's literature and discuss it. If you really must use something, Teaching Literary Elements by Tara McCarthy is a better fit for a fifth grader than Figuratively Speaking. 🙂 I use Figuratively Speaking with my 7th and 8th graders generally. A younger kid surely could do the activities, but they'll get more out of it at an older age. 

Mine also don't have a separate vocabulary work. My oldest kids had some but it felt like busywork combined with everything else they did. We did enjoy English From the Roots Up, but it was the catalyst that had us starting Latin and it was shelved. 😄

My rising 5th grader will use:
Spelling: Megawords
Grammar: First Language Lessons 4 (we skipped it this year in favor of light review, so now we're going back to it) 
Writing: Writing & Rhetoric from Classical Academic Press
Literature: a pile of really good books to read and discuss, many tied to his history and his science but plenty are just good books

He will be starting his first year of Latin with Latin for Children level A. 

I did consider Junior Analytical Grammar instead of FLL, but I'd rather have the small lessons throughout the year for this boy this year. JAG takes a bit longer daily, but only lasts for 11 weeks (22 I think if you do both levels). 

(Otherwise he'll be in Beast Academy for math, Oh Freedom for history, and a homemade zoology course for science.)

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2 hours ago, SilverMoon said:

I use Figuratively Speaking with my 7th and 8th graders generally.

Same.  I agree that it is better suited to upper middle school than to early middle school. 

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On 6/13/2021 at 7:55 PM, Homeschooler_CH said:

Hi,

Below is what we did this year and how it went. 

Reading : Lightening and Lit 4 (My son loved it and I was happy that it was working from him but we never used the writing part and for grammar he repeatedly said that he needed more practice and i could see it was not enough) ----- As much as we love it I'm positive we don't want to do this next yr, I looked into Glencoe lit guides and really like it. I have Figuratively language as well so a combo of this and Glencoe might work for Reading?? Any other ideas? Goals for this year would be for him to have some lit analysis exposure and have fun before things get serious in Middle Grades.

Writing : IEW Student Writing Intensive level A older version  (My son did seem to like the formulaic approach and it seemed to work fine. We finished this earlier in the year and i wanted to try WWE so we hopped onto WWE4. I've WWE3 for my younger one so I thought in case this is too hard I can move back to 3 but so far we're just under 10 weeks and it seem to work well.  I've been reading about Killgallon and Writing revolution which i think would be a good foundation especially with proper sentences. If I add this I will do it together with my 3rd grader hopefully it should work fine.  Treasured Conversations is also something I'm looking into since I know i can work with both of them together on it. Writing and Rhetoric is another one I looked into but somehow think that we would need more instructions than what is given in teacher's manual.) ------- Going to IEW next level would be fine but somehow I think he needs more explicit instructions on writing good sentences. Goals for this year would be to write good paragraphs.

Spelling : Didn't do much this year I was planning on having Word Roots (CTC) words as his spelling list but we never got it to that often. I bought AAS Level1 thinking we need to start there but it is way too easy and he keeps on asking for something at his level. -----Based on the 5th grade thread I was thinking of starting on R&S Spelling maybe level 3 with my younger one and then hopefully add in Word Roots Words.  Megawords is also something I was thinking. Goals for this year would be improve spelling as long we see progress throughout the year I'm good.

Vocabulary : Wordly Wise (This is a success for my kids we started it middle of the year so still to complete it. My son said he got a word from this in his MAP test and was happy to know the meaning:-).On his MAP test he said they were asking for latin root of light which he has no idea.) ------- Based on the questions in MAP I'm thinking of adding in WordRoots more often and continue with WordlyWise next level whenever we finish his current book.  Goals for this year would be to focus on rootwords. 

Grammar : Lightening and Lit Grammar peice + Grammar Island (We needed more explanations and review than what was in LL so towards end of he year i bought DGP level 4. We never got to start it because my son resisted it very much but I' hoping it will just take time for him to get hang of the program. -------Based on 5th grade threads now I'm thinking of Analytical Grammar junior and some DGP added in if needed since i already have it. Goals for us would be to have foundation set for grammar and keep it rolling.

In my dream world I would love to add all MCT components (since grammar island was a big success with him and he seemed to grasp it pretty well.) 

Also with my 3rd grader I'm using pathway readers and like it but I don't see it mentioned a lot in upper elementary.  So not really sure if we can use it for Reading.

Any other suggestions are also welcome!!  Thank you for reading and making it to the end despite all the grammatical errors:-).

One thing I would say is not to pile on too much. If you had fewer things to plan and handle and whatnot, you might be more likely to focus on and finish the main things.

Rod and Staff's Spelling by Sound and Structure is completely different beginning in fourth grade. The sixth, seventh, and eighth grade books are texts, not workbooks. and they cover word roots and the whole thing. I would stick with that, and not add in Wordly Wise or any other similar text. Or drop SSS and do Wordly Wise. 

Pathway Readers are Mennonite. Beginning with the fourth reader, they tend to focus on Mennonite history, which is probably why most of us don't use the upper level books. I would do Lightning Lit instead of any other readers.

Choose IEW, or WWE. Just one.  Also, good writing instruction shouldn't be focused on only writing good paragraphs, or good sentences. Good writing instruction teaches children how to write well; when they can write well, they can apply that skill to any specific kind of writing genre.

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I'm trying to wrap my head around your post, and I'm not sure if you want any extra suggestions, but here we go.

Reading: there are definite advantages to literature guides.  We end up having two reading blocks in our house: A reader (like what you use with your 3rd grader), and a literature book, to get more in depth with something and have it connect across the curriculum. 

If you like the Pathway readers for the 3rd grader, stick with them.  I don't think too many of us use readers, but some of us do.  We use the Elson series because they start with literature comprehension and analysis around the 3rd book,

Writing: this might be dictated by how much time you have per week.  IEW is solid. Killgallon is solid.  Treasured Conversations is solid.  Slightly different approaches, so just pick which you gravitate to.  I wouldn't (and haven't) hesitated to use any of them when teaching how to write a paragraph.

Spelling: We ended up with Reading And Spelling Through Literature.  Similar to AAS (which was a bust here years ago), no manipulatives.  We go through the spelling lists with 10 words a day, learning the rules with easy words and quickly building up.  I think we made it through 2.5 levels last year, and will finish this year (6th) with the last 1.5.  I don't use the reading portion of the manual because it is insanely easy.

Vocabulary: really, if you're doing literature guides, spelling, and possibly IEW, do you need a separate vocab?  I'd let it drop for now.

Grammar: I don' t have any suggestions for your plan. 🙂

 

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On 6/13/2021 at 5:55 PM, Homeschooler_CH said:

...Below is what we did this year and how it went...
... In my dream world I would love to add all MCT components (since grammar island was a big success with him and he seemed to grasp it pretty well.) 
...Also with my 3rd grader I'm using pathway readers and like it but I don't see it mentioned a lot in upper elementary.  So not really sure if we can use it for Reading.
...Any other suggestions are also welcome!!

You welcomed suggestions 😉 , so here goes:

Reading
For 5th grade (and if the 3rd grader is also reading well), skip the reading programs and skip guides. Just dive into a big pile of great books. I have to say that grades 3-6 were the BEST years of reading because there are SO many fantastic books out there for that age. Do a few books aloud together "buddy style" and discuss a few things as you go, *naturally* as it comes up. Also, that practices keeping up the skill of reading aloud, and lets *you* quietly check in with your student as to if there are any reading issues, and if they are comprehending. 😉  If both you and your student(s) would love some "go along" activities, then pick one book per semester to do a long of extension studies and activities with it; either google for ideas, or use something like "Lit Wits". Maybe do that with a family read-aloud book...

Writing
Sounds like you've got great resources that are working. Pick ONE per child and stick with that -- don't overload. If you really want to use something like Killgallon as a *supplement*, then plan your regular writing program 4x/week, and do Killgallon 1x/week. Putting in a shout-out for Treasured Conversations -- while I didn't get to use it with my DSs (they had graduated by the time it came out), I've looked over the samples, and it is a super writing + grammar resource. 

Grammar
I can't figure out what DGP is, but if your DS is reluctant with that but loves MCT Grammar... Drop DGP and sell it (so you won't be tempted because "it's on the shelf"). Seriously, learning does NOT happen when the child is resistant to a program, and there are SO many other options out there... Just chalk it up to being a non-fit and move on to what DOES fit. And go with MCT Grammar since he loves it and learns from it. You can always do Jr. Analytical Grammar in middle school grades, or just do the regular Analytical Grammar at that time. And especially if you end up doing Treasured Conversations, you'll be getting some grammar-in-context-of writing there, so NO need to get all formal and diagram-y in 5th grade. The analytical portions of the brain develop more along about ages 12-14, so waiting to do diagramming and Analytical Grammar in late middle school just means the student is more likely *ready* for formal grammar/diagramming at that age... Just my 2 cents worth.

Spelling
Again, sound like you have 2 great resources in mind. Pick ONE and stick with it for a few months to see if it's what is needed and is a good fit. You mentioned that "[g]oals for this year would be improve spelling..." What exactly needs work? That would better help you pick a program that will do that for you. Does he need phonics and understanding of letter sounds and vowel patterns (e.g.: All About Spelling)? Or does he just need exposure to longer words and syllabication patterns/vowel patterns (e.g.: Megawords)? And, if there is nothing really big that needs work, and he just needs good lists of words to practice, check out Natural Speller -- great lists by grade (but you can jump around and freely adapt as needed), with "word families", lists of special words (like days of the week), homophones, and other great lists of words. Covers grades 1-8, so it's also very economical.

Vocabulary
Again, pick ONE resource -- EITHER Wordly Wise OR Root Words -- and stick with it. If you already have both, then maybe do ONE for the fall semester, and then switch and do the other for the spring semester. It's easy to overdo and kill a love a learning, so that's why I keep saying "do ONE". 😉  Another idea: vocabulary doesn't have to happen every day -- 2-3x/week is fine, in case you are having trouble fitting everything in. Finally, this is totally just me and my DC, but workbooks were not the favorite/best way of learning here. We used English From the Roots Up and made it more of an interactive game/fun activity with the 3 of us for learning Greek and Latin roots. Another thought is to just do tons of read-alouds and learn vocabulary in context -- on the fly, as you read, stop and explain a word, and then keep going. A lot of kids pick up a LOT of vocabulary that way.

Sounds like you have good overall direction for next year with goals, and what specific needs DC have, and that's super. Lots of great resources and programs mentioned, so whatever you go with, I'm sure you'll have a great year! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited by Lori D.
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20 hours ago, SilverMoon said:

Teaching Literary Elements by Tara McCarthy is a better fit for a fifth grader than Figuratively Speaking.

I've never heard of it before but I'll look into it. Based on the suggestions I'll keep Figuratively Speaking aside for now.

 

20 hours ago, SilverMoon said:

I did consider Junior Analytical Grammar instead of FLL, but I'd rather have the small lessons throughout the year for this boy this year. JAG takes a bit longer daily, but only lasts for 11 weeks (22 I think if you do both levels). 

Based on LoriD's response I'll keep DGP aside and since we will not be doing Lightening and Lit I'll not have any grammar portion. 

Can we start at Level 4 or do you suggest Level 3 for FLL? If level 3 I can combine with my 3rd grader. I'll check to see if they have placement tests too.

18 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

After reading your post, I was going to recommend MCT grammar and writing 🙂 Why is it in your dream world instead of reality?

Cost:-)

 

7 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

If you like the Pathway readers for the 3rd grader, stick with them.  I don't think too many of us use readers, but some of us do.  We use the Elson series because they start with literature comprehension and analysis around the 3rd book

I remember checking Elson series when you suggested it and if I remember it correctly it is free available download right? If so do you print it off or use something like Kindle? My son loves to take his book and sleep on bed, couch to read. That was the reason I didn't think it would work for us.

 

1 hour ago, Lori D. said:

I have to say that grades 3-6 were the BEST years of reading because there are SO many fantastic books out there for that age.

This is definitely something I'm gearing towards this year with him to be a year of adventure, mystery reading. I usually tend to pick books from newberry/caldecott section of our library and most of them are serious. This year I want to stay away from that section:-). I saved your middle grade reading suggestions made a while back here but I was wondering if you have any suggestion for something in between lower elementary and middle school. Reading together 

 

1 hour ago, Lori D. said:

Do a few books aloud together "buddy style" and discuss a few things as you go, *naturally* as it comes up. Also, that practices keeping up the skill of reading aloud, and lets *you* quietly check in with your student as to if there are any

I didn't even think of this. Usually i read aloud to them and we have discussions around it. I will start doing this but probably only one kid at a time.

 

2 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Sounds like you've got great resources that are working. Pick ONE per child and stick with that -- don't overload. If you really want to use something like Killgallon as a *supplement*, then plan your regular writing program 4x/week, and do Killgallon 1x/week.

Based on Ellie and your suggestion I'm leaning towards WWE since it is 4 days and then add in killgallon once a week.  Also i've never used more than one program at once for writing we used IEW and only after we finished it we started WWE.

 

2 hours ago, Lori D. said:

You can always do Jr. Analytical Grammar in middle school grades, or just do the regular Analytical Grammar at that time.

Yes based on all your suggestions I'm not buying it as of now will keep it for later. On silvermoon suggestions I will look into FLL unless I can get MCT for a good price.

 

2 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Or does he just need exposure to longer words and syllabication patterns/vowel patterns (e.g.: Megawords)?

This sounds like it he needs exposure to longer words.

 

2 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Again, pick ONE resource -- EITHER Wordly Wise OR Root Words -- and stick with it. If you already have both, then maybe do ONE for the fall semester, and then switch and do the other for the spring semester. It's easy to overdo and kill a love a learning, so that's why I keep saying "do ONE". 😉  Another idea: vocabulary doesn't have to happen every day -- 2-3x/week is fine, in case you are having trouble fitting everything in. Finally, this is totally just me and my DC, but workbooks were not the favorite/best way of learning here. We used English From the Roots Up and made it more of an interactive game/fun activity with the 3 of us for learning Greek and Latin roots. Another thought is to just do tons of read-alouds and learn vocabulary in context -- on the fly, as you read, stop and explain a word, and then keep going. A lot of kids pick up a LOT of vocabulary that way.

We did only one at a time and like I said he never resisted at WordlyWise so we kept at it.  But if we do buddy reading  that will give us lot of opportunities to learn vocabulary in context. 

 

Almost all my friends kids are in Public School and I had to hear about 2nd graders being taught simile, metaphor.....so I end up getting anxious about not doing enough and pile on/research.

Looking back and reading all your comments I realize we may have overdone it this past year but hopefully this year would be better than last. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Homeschooler_CH said:

 

I remember checking Elson series when you suggested it and if I remember it correctly it is free available download right? If so do you print it off or use something like Kindle? My son loves to take his book and sleep on bed, couch to read. That was the reason I didn't think it would work for us.

 

It is a free download, or about $15 new from Rainbow Resource (or cheaper used).  They're still in print. 🙂  My kid likes to read wherever, too, and only uses the kindle for library books right now.

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5 hours ago, Homeschooler_CH said:

I've never heard of it before but I'll look into it. Based on the suggestions I'll keep Figuratively Speaking aside for now.

 

Based on LoriD's response I'll keep DGP aside and since we will not be doing Lightening and Lit I'll not have any grammar portion. 

Can we start at Level 4 or do you suggest Level 3 for FLL? If level 3 I can combine with my 3rd grader. I'll check to see if they have placement tests too.

An average kid with previous exposure to basic grammar would be fine in FLL level 4. If this is his first grammar year or you're worried about 4 moving too fast he could totally start at 3. 

There's really no reason to need literary terms in 5th grade but that one is more gentle. It's a Scholastic book. If you're leaning toward more organic literature with them, maybe instead get the book Deconstructing Penguins for you to read. 🙂

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1 hour ago, Homeschooler_CH said:

Daily Grammar Practice Grade 4 – DGP Bookstore (dgppublishing.com)

This is link Lori it was suggested to me by my Homeschool Association.

Man, I just showed the 6th grade sample to my kid because I thought it would be a great compromise for this year.  He didn't go for it, but in return earnestly gave me a way to increase my work load this summer by creating a custom grammar program for him. 🤣

Which is, coincidentally, quite like DGP, but one sentence per day and pulled from books I am assigning him. 

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2 hours ago, Homeschooler_CH said:

Daily Grammar Practice Grade 4 – DGP Bookstore (dgppublishing.com)

This is link Lori it was suggested to me by my Homeschool Association.

Thx for linking that. I had not seen it before.

gah. Shoot me now! That looks so dry, formal, and densely laid out on a page, that *I* would resist it... 😂

MANY years back, I got to sit in on a homeschool conference session given by Joyce Herzog, who had a fabulous overview of how to teach Grammar. That is now in her book, 6 Weeks to Understanding Grammar. It may be more of a resource for YOU at this stage (with clear and simple direction for how to teach grammar), rather than something to do WITH your kids -- although your 5th grader *might* be able to do it alongside you. I'd suggest using that book as a review.

One other thought: diagramming can be a great analytical tool -- but ONLY if it is one that "clicks" for your student. Ultimately, the point is for the child to understand Grammar as a tool to be used in conjunction with Writing (correct sentence structure, proof-editing for GUM - grammar usage & mechanics), for correct Speaking (the other aspect of Rhetoric), and for foreign language acquisition.

Because this is my perspective, and because I had a child with mild LDs who was never going to click with diagramming, I used a bit more of a hands-on approach with Winston Basic for learning the parts of speech, and then we parsed* 4 sentences a day on the whiteboard with different colors of markers to identify what part of speech each word was and what "job it was "doing" in the sentence by  using lines, boxes, and arrows, to show connections, what was modifying what, etc. I found that to be very helpful with the writing, as DSs could see if they had a problem with sentence structure, and if so, what needed to happen to correct that. They also saw that there were many different ways to put together a sentence correctly. 

If wanting to keep the Grammar and Writing combined, you might also look at IEW's Fix-It Grammar, which practices Grammar in the context of proofing and revising Writing.

* = parse means"to analyze (a sentence) into its parts and describe their syntactic roles"


BEST of luck in finding what works best for your family! Warmly, Lori D.

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I'm sorry but I have not read all the above posts (lack of time issue) but this is what I am doing next year for ELA with my rising 5th grader fwiw. I will add that ELA is a strong suit for my DD—she loves stories and writing and seeks a challenge:

Literature:  1) Several beloved books for gentle discussion/analysis of literary terms and concepts such as Charlottes Web, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, The Cricket in Times Square, etc. I have some interactive notebook materials from LovinLit (found on Teacherspayteachers.com) that I plan to use alongside. DD is very crafty and loves to cut, paste, fold, draw, fill in, create, etc. I may also add in some guides from Moving Beyond the Page as well as selected exercises from Teaching Literary Elements ; 2) A Moving Beyond the Page unit on American Tall Tales & Legends; 3) Poetry study using a variety of resources including maybe LovinLit's poetry interactive materials. DD loves poetry especially humorous poetry like Prelutsky and Silverstein; and 4) continued recreational reading—for example, DD is on book 5 of the Harry Potter series and plans to finish these through book seven. Then she will start the new Morrigan Crow series (our read-aloud right now but she wants to reread herself), etc.

Composition: My plan was to start IEW Level A with my DD this year (4th) but since DD is developing a love for creative writing I changed course and went with Classical Academic Press's Writing and Rhetoric Books 1 (Fable) and 2 (Narrative I) where the focus is more on narrative/story rather than expository forms of writing. She is also taking several Outschool creative writing classes this summer. SO, I am thinking it is now time to introduce some formal expository writing in 5th, alongside continuing with CAP W & R Book 3 (Narrative II). We will be using IEW's Level A (older version)and Continuation Level A (older version) before moving to the newer version for Level B in grade 6. I also have some resources for writing different types of expository paragraphs (chronological, spatial, descriptive, compare/contrast, etc.) which I may use.

We also will be using Kilgallon sentence composing exercise books (EXCELLENT for improving sentence writing fluency and putting grammar into action).

Grammar: DD is pretty strong in grammar conventions and usage since she writes so much (so far mostly stories, newsletters, and scripts) and I ask her to revise and proofread her work regularly. For more "formal" grammar (which I think is helpful for foreign language study later) we will use Easy Grammar 180 Daily Lessons, Beowulf's Grammar (Guesthollow), and sentence diagramming exercises. DD enjoys diagramming so we do it!

Spelling: DD is a very strong speller. We have been successfully using Megawords (which she does mostly independently) so we'll stick with that for 5th grade.

Vocabulary: This year we used Sadlier which I may stick with for 5th but I may change to Vocabulit because of DD's strong inclination toward (love of) fiction and narrative.

Handwriting: DD will continue with Zaner Bloser cursive writing books in 5th.

Hope that helps and have a great year!

 

 

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