This IS a JAWM...(Covid related)

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

(Don’t quote please) My mother, a highly educated woman with a BSN, is driving me nuts.  She isn’t a Covid denier in that she knows it’s real; she just doesn’t believe it’s that serious. Part of this, I’m sure, is that she doesn’t know anyone who had a serious case. I know two people in their late 40s who died, though granted, both were morbidly obese with uncontrolled diabetes. Still, they’d be alive and unhealthy now instead of dead if it wasn’t for covid.  One left an 8 year old daughter; the other’s 24 year old son committed suicide shortly after his dad’s death.  
 

My dad is much more rational and does know people through work that have died.  He got vaccinated a month ago, and now my mom is convinced that he is “shedding” and causing her to feel PMS symptoms despite being in menopause for a decade.  I tried explaining that none of these vaccines shed(I believe he got the J and J) and that even if they did, anecdotal evidence that she’s reading on the internet makes zero biological sense.  She’s fallen down the Fox News rabbit hole(I’m deeply conservative myself but they’re too much conspiracy nonsense for me) the last few years and I cannot even discuss things rationally with her anymore.

I can’t switch the subject or lather/rinse/repeat because she just goes back to it.  My homeopathic naturopath sister isn’t helping either with the scientific absurdities. I’m losing my mind.

[happi duck]

(hugs)

[mommyoffive]

I am sorry.  

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

The oddest part is that she’s not really anti vaccine.  She very strongly encouraged my grandmother to get it when my grandma was on the fence(another cousin was telling her it would kill her...) and she volunteered to get my kids from school so I could be first in line for the vax in December.  She just believes the crazy things she’s hearing. I don’t get it.

We were homeschooled and she was always so passionate about teaching us scientific literacy and critical thinking.  She had thyroid cancer last year and just hasn’t recovered well at all, and is sitting around watching TV for the first time  in her life.  I just don’t know where this is all coming from.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Katy]

I’m sorry. I don’t get it either. Our resident kook in the family finally shut up when an extended family member’s father in law died. We just avoided the topic or hung up the phone if he insisted on ranting about it. He was also pro-vaccine, retired from a medical field. It made no sense, but the ranting continued anyway. 

[Tanaqui]

Is it possible you can go to her house and quietly change the parental access so she can't watch Fox News? And then claim total ignorance when she says she can't watch it anymore? "Gosh, those packages are always changing! Here, I'll share my netflix package so we can watch the same shows!"

(I'm mostly being sarcastic, but, true confession, I do know people who have done this to great success, and also people who spent hours carefully curating parental youtube lists to get them off the conspiracy video treadmill.)

Edited June 10, 2021 by Tanaqui

[Hyacinth]

I know Fox News has a reputation for disseminating . . . well . . . crap, but what you're describing doesn't sound like it came from Fox. MANY of their "star" hosts have talked about how they got the vaccine. I'd be looking more toward Facebook and, as Tanaqui alluded to, YouTube. 

 

 

[RootAnn]

Hugs!

I'd probably see if she can get into her gyn to look into those mysterious PMS symptoms. And maybe hearing a doctor tell her the same thing you did about no shedding from those vaccines will help?

[Kanin]

I'm so sorry. That has got to be so tough! We have some conspiracy-minded relatives, but luckily they just send us email so we don't have to discuss it in person.

I heard a story on NPR recently about people who get sucked into conspiracy theories. It was really disturbing, and the gist was that it's really hard to get someone back from that. Their advice was to talk about shared events from pre-conspiracy days, and bond that way. The idea is that people often go in for conspiracies when they don't feel like their real lives are compelling enough, secure enough, etc. 

[mom2scouts]

40 minutes ago, Hyacinth said:

I know Fox News has a reputation for disseminating . . . well . . . crap, but what you're describing doesn't sound like it came from Fox. MANY of their "star" hosts have talked about how they got the vaccine. I'd be looking more toward Facebook and, as Tanaqui alluded to, YouTube. 

 

 

Yes, I know someone who keeps posting all these weird youtube videos. I watch a lot of different news stations (including Fox) that lean both right and left and I'm not seeing it coming from there. Also, the Covid vaccine brings out strange actions. The formerly rabid anti-vaxxer is all about promoting the Covid vaccine now. The former vaccine positive are against getting the Covid vaccine because it's experimental*. The former slow vaccine people are either very pro-Covid vaccine or very anti-Covid vaccine and seem to have lost their moderate position. 

*On a side note, my ds who's been in the Pfizer trial says the trial is expected to be complete by the end of August and they're going for full approval.

[MEmama]

59 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Is it possible you can go to her house and quietly change the parental access so she can't watch Fox News? And then claim total ignorance when she says she can't watch it anymore? "Gosh, those packages are always changing! Here, I'll share my netflix package so we can watch the same shows!"

(I'm mostly being sarcastic, but, true confession, I do know people who have done this to great success, and also people who spent hours carefully curating parental youtube lists to get them off the conspiracy video treadmill.)

We used to do this when fil visited. Then we got rid of whatever package it came with. Now he just sulks and watches the weather channel or fiddles with his phone.
 

[Harriet Vane]

Ugh, I'm so sorry. I have a couple crazy people in my life who have gone down this rabbit hole. One group have always been crazy and I honestly don't pay much attention to them. They make for funny stories, kwim? One group live in a state that is notoriously anti-covid. Their stance re covid is perplexing to me because that particular branch have always been very much on the standard medical care path. The real doozy is a much-loved person in my life, for whom I have been both uber-supportive and uber-generous over decades, who now sends me hate-filled, ugly memes and messages and who has taken specific measures to do things that are backstabbing and hurtful or to pick a fight with me. I have not responded to any of this person's ugliness, but I am so very, very weary from being this person's punching bag.

I'm sorry your mom is falling down this well. I pray you are able to gently coax her to a healthier state of mind.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

1 hour ago, RootAnn said:

Hugs!

I'd probably see if she can get into her gyn to look into those mysterious PMS symptoms. And maybe hearing a doctor tell her the same thing you did about no shedding from those vaccines will help?

Since having half her thyroid removed last year she hasn’t been well at all, but her blood work looks okay so the doctors tell her it’s anxiety(no hx of anxiety at all) or being in her 60s.  Right now she probably isn’t going to listen to any doctors.  
 

Now that everyone has mentioned it, I think it probably is YouTube videos.

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

Is it possible you can go to her house and quietly change the parental access so she can't watch Fox News? And then claim total ignorance when she says she can't watch it anymore? "Gosh, those packages are always changing! Here, I'll share my netflix package so we can watch the same shows!"

(I'm mostly being sarcastic, but, true confession, I do know people who have done this to great success, and also people who spent hours carefully curating parental youtube lists to get them off the conspiracy video treadmill.)

I know you were joking, but as someone who is a lot closer to @Mrs Tiggywinkle‘s mother’s age than I am to her age, I have to say that I think it’s pretty terrible that anyone would do something like changing the parental access settings on the TV so their parents couldn’t watch their favorite news channel. And making the assumption that their parent would be too stupid and inept to realize what had happened is possibly even worse. And don’t even get me started on the idea of  “carefully curating parental YouTube lists,” because I think that may be even worse. 

People may disagree with their parents, and they may think their parents are watching the wrong news channels or that their parents have some beliefs which with they don’t agree, but let’s not forget that those parents have every right to watch whatever news channels they want to watch, and they can watch whatever YouTube videos they choose, as well. If someone disagrees with their parents about things like the Covid vaccine, I’m all in favor of having some long discussions about it... but being intentionally deceptive and sneaky in order to get them to see things your way? No. Just NO.

Mrs. Tiggywinkle’s mom is only in her 60’s. We have quite a few WTMers who are in their late 50s and 60s (including me — I’m 57,) and it’s just plain offensive to see so many posts on this forum lately that seem to suggest that anyone who is old enough to be the parent of a WTMer must be well on the road to mental incompetence.

Again, I’m not picking on you — please don’t take any offense!  I know you were joking! It’s just that I have seen people make similar comments in other threads over the past several months (and those people were serious,) and I finally reached a point where I had to say something about it.

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I know you were joking, but as someone who is a lot closer to @Mrs Tiggywinkle‘s mother’s age than I am to her age, I have to say that I think it’s pretty terrible that anyone would do something like changing the parental access settings on the TV so their parents couldn’t watch their favorite news channel. And making the assumption that their parent would be too stupid and inept to realize what had happened is possibly even worse. And don’t even get me started on the idea of  “carefully curating parental YouTube lists,” because I think that may be even worse. 

People may disagree with their parents, and they may think their parents are watching the wrong news channels or that their parents have some beliefs which with they don’t agree, but let’s not forget that those parents have every right to watch whatever news channels they want to watch, and they can watch whatever YouTube videos they choose, as well. If someone disagrees with their parents about things like the Covid vaccine, I’m all in favor of having some long discussions about it... but being intentionally deceptive and sneaky in order to get them to see things your way? No. Just NO.

Mrs. Tiggywinkle’s mom is only in her 60’s. We have quite a few WTMers who are in their late 50s and 60s (including me — I’m 57,) and it’s just plain offensive to see so many posts on this forum lately that seem to suggest that anyone who is old enough to be the parent of a WTMer must be well on the road to mental incompetence.

Again, I’m not picking on you — please don’t take any offense!  I know you were joking! It’s just that I have seen people make similar comments in other threads over the past several months (and those people were serious,) and I finally reached a point where I had to say something about it.

They do have the right but, as someone struggling with this, my 70 yo dad is nearly on the same end of the competency spectrum as my 16yo. I have to talk to my dad these days like I do my daughter...gently, sternly, sometimes commandingly. He is not as sharp as he used to be. No, he shouldn’t be trimming his palm trees from a ladder perched in the bed of his pick up truck, for ex. Can he, sure, if I had it in my power to hide the ladder would I? DAMN STRAIGHT.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Catwoman]

7 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

They do have the right but, as someone struggling with this, my 70 yo dad is nearly on the same end of the competency spectrum as my 16yo. I have to talk to my dad these days like I do my daughter...gently, sternly, sometimes commandingly. He is not as sharp as he used to be. No, he shouldn’t be trimming his palm trees from a ladder perched in the bed of his pick up truck, for ex. Can he, sure, if I had it in my power to hide the ladder would I? DAMN STRAIGHT.

I’m very sorry to hear about your dad, and I understand why you are concerned!

But I think the average 70yo is still far more competent than that, and doesn’t need to be treated as though their mind is no longer sharp enough to decide what TV channels to watch.

[pinball]

11 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I know you were joking, but as someone who is a lot closer to @Mrs Tiggywinkle‘s mother’s age than I am to her age, I have to say that I think it’s pretty terrible that anyone would do something like changing the parental access settings on the TV so their parents couldn’t watch their favorite news channel. And making the assumption that their parent would be too stupid and inept to realize what had happened is possibly even worse. And don’t even get me started on the idea of  “carefully curating parental YouTube lists,” because I think that may be even worse. 

People may disagree with their parents, and they may think their parents are watching the wrong news channels or that their parents have some beliefs which with they don’t agree, but let’s not forget that those parents have every right to watch whatever news channels they want to watch, and they can watch whatever YouTube videos they choose, as well. If someone disagrees with their parents about things like the Covid vaccine, I’m all in favor of having some long discussions about it... but being intentionally deceptive and sneaky in order to get them to see things your way? No. Just NO.

Mrs. Tiggywinkle’s mom is only in her 60’s. We have quite a few WTMers who are in their late 50s and 60s (including me — I’m 57,) and it’s just plain offensive to see so many posts on this forum lately that seem to suggest that anyone who is old enough to be the parent of a WTMer must be well on the road to mental incompetence.

Again, I’m not picking on you — please don’t take any offense!  I know you were joking! It’s just that I have seen people make similar comments in other threads over the past several months (and those people were serious,) and I finally reached a point where I had to say something about it.

Amen. And Awomen.

It’s scary that people would consider censoring their parents’ media habits in the parents’ own homes.

in a very small percentage of parents, maybe with neuro deficits or mental illnesses, I can maaaaaybeeee see this as an option.

but a 60ish woman, who is functioning...and you think Fox News should be censored? No way.

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I’m very sorry to hear about your dad, and I understand why you are concerned!

But I think the average 70yo is still far more competent than that, and doesn’t need to be treated as though their mind is no longer sharp enough to decide what TV channels to watch.

Totally depends on the parents. My grandma, at 90+ was still sharp. But, no, blanket ‘adults’ are adults language doesn’t work. The first thing to go was his reason, in part because of his media consumption habits and veterans cohort. He STILL won’t accept the vaccine (something I have to deal with before we fly out there this summer). He is physically capable of doing things that he has no business doing. A single fall could cost him his life. My stepmom literally calls me to try to talk sense. The elderly, not merely old, are very susceptible to misinformation. Age of majority does not mean competence.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

The first thing to go was his reason, in part because of his media consumption habits and veterans cohort. He STILL won’t accept the vaccine (something I have to deal with before we fly out there this summer). He is physically capable of doing things that he has no business doing. A single fall could cost him his life. My stepmom literally calls me to try to talk sense. The elderly, not merely old, are very susceptible to misinformation.

First of all, I don’t consider 70 to be particularly elderly.

Secondly, plenty of younger people are very susceptible to misinformation, and plenty of seniors are still sharp as a tack.

Generalizing about mental capacity just because a person has reached a certain age is not a nice thing to do.

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

First of all, I don’t consider 70 to be particularly elderly.

Secondly, plenty of younger people are very susceptible to misinformation, and plenty of seniors are still sharp as a tack.

Generalizing about mental capacity just because a person has reached a certain age is not a nice thing to do.

I’m not generalizing anymore than you are in saying that all old people are perfectly fine with their decision making. Some are, some aren’t, and that is for their families to decide, not for me or you to second guess or moralize about.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I’m not generalizing anymore than you are in saying that all old people are perfectly fine with their decision making. Some are, some aren’t, and that is for their families to decide, not for me or you to second guess or moralize about.

I think you completely missed my point.

[Catwoman]

12 minutes ago, pinball said:

Amen. And Awomen.

It’s scary that people would consider censoring their parents’ media habits in the parents’ own homes.

in a very small percentage of parents, maybe with neuro deficits or mental illnesses, I can maaaaaybeeee see this as an option.

but a 60ish woman, who is functioning...and you think Fox News should be censored? No way.

Yes. This. Exactly.

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I think you completely missed my point.

What was the point? It seemed to be a blanket condemnation of stepping in to reduce the misinformation received by older adults. Am I misunderstanding your comments? My dad isn’t mentally ill. His judgment, however, is impaired. Many in his cohort are similarly afflicted. It’s not unusual.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Sneezyone

[MEmama]

32 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I know you were joking, but as someone who is a lot closer to @Mrs Tiggywinkle‘s mother’s age than I am to her age, I have to say that I think it’s pretty terrible that anyone would do something like changing the parental access settings on the TV so their parents couldn’t watch their favorite news channel. And making the assumption that their parent would be too stupid and inept to realize what had happened is possibly even worse. And don’t even get me started on the idea of  “carefully curating parental YouTube lists,” because I think that may be even worse. 

People may disagree with their parents, and they may think their parents are watching the wrong news channels or that their parents have some beliefs which with they don’t agree, but let’s not forget that those parents have every right to watch whatever news channels they want to watch, and they can watch whatever YouTube videos they choose, as well. If someone disagrees with their parents about things like the Covid vaccine, I’m all in favor of having some long discussions about it... but being intentionally deceptive and sneaky in order to get them to see things your way? No. Just NO.

Mrs. Tiggywinkle’s mom is only in her 60’s. We have quite a few WTMers who are in their late 50s and 60s (including me — I’m 57,) and it’s just plain offensive to see so many posts on this forum lately that seem to suggest that anyone who is old enough to be the parent of a WTMer must be well on the road to mental incompetence.

Again, I’m not picking on you — please don’t take any offense!  I know you were joking! It’s just that I have seen people make similar comments in other threads over the past several months (and those people were serious,) and I finally reached a point where I had to say something about it.

Oh, I didn’t realize she meant at their own house. We did it at OUR house when the in laws came to visit because they didn’t respect our house rules.

I agree that it’s not ok to police what they watch in their own home!

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

What was the point? It seemed to be a blanket condemnation of stepping in to reduce the misinformation received by older adults. Am I misunderstanding your comments? My dad isn’t mentally ill. His judgment, however, is impaired. Many in his cohort are similarly afflicted. It’s not unusual.

My point was that there seems to be a distressing trend here to make the assumption that just because a person has reached a certain age, they are probably incapable of making good decisions or even deciding what television stations to watch. And that age is apparently 55+ based on comments I have read over the past several months.

It is not okay to assume that once people reach a certain age, their judgment is impaired. It is rude and it is insulting.

And realistically, who are we to assume that we are the ones who get to define what is and is not “misinformation” for our parents or other adults? Who are we to decide what news stations they are allowed to watch? How can we be so sure that we are right and they are wrong? 

It is awful that some people feel the need to infantilize people simply because they are of a certain age. I would have been livid if anyone had ever tried to do that to my parents or grandparents, because they were most definitely mentally sound until they passed away in their 80s and 90s. And I sure don’t want anyone doing it to me just because I’m an “old lady” of 57.

[Catwoman]

7 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Oh, I didn’t realize she meant at their own house. We did it at OUR house when the in laws came to visit because they didn’t respect our house rules.

I agree that it’s not ok to police what they watch in their own home!

That’s totally different!  🙂 

[Pen]

3 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

3 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

.  I just don’t know ...

some bizarre problem with quotes today

...... 

 

I am feel sorry that you are feeling distressed and also sorry for your mother who is probably feeling distressed too

 

I wish that the current world situation weren’t driving such terrible wedges between people who at least once loved one another. . 
 

. 
 

I don’t want to write anything outside of JAWM parameters, except that one way or another I hope you will reconcile.

It sounds like she did her best to be a good mom for you. 

 

And it sounds like you are doing your best to be a good daughter too

 

 

3 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

 

 

[Sneezyone]

12 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

My point was that there seems to be a distressing trend here to make the assumption that just because a person has reached a certain age, they are probably incapable of making good decisions or even deciding what television stations to watch. And that age is apparently 55+ based on comments I have read over the past several months.

It is not okay to assume that once people reach a certain age, their judgment is impaired. It is rude and it is insulting.

And realistically, who are we to assume that we are the ones who get to define what is and is not “misinformation” for our parents or other adults? Who are we to decide what news stations they are allowed to watch? How can we be so sure that we are right and they are wrong? 

It is awful that some people feel the need to infantilize people simply because they are of a certain age. I would have been livid if anyone had ever tried to do that to my parents or grandparents, because they were most definitely mentally sound until they passed away in their 80s and 90s. And I sure don’t want anyone doing it to me just because I’m an “old lady” of 57.

Is it a trend or something we’re just being more open about? I’m not sure how it’s different from keeping knives away from people who would use them in dangerous ways. I get that it’s distressing to think about removing rights/privileges from adults. It’s why there are so many dangerous older drivers on the roads causing and getting into accidents. I had to report one myself a few months back. It’s still the reality that most of us have less mental acuity and/or physical capacity as we age. Decrying it doesn’t make these issues any less real. I’m certainly not talking about making assumptions based on age but neither was the post you took issue with which was far more broad. And yea, as next of kin it’s kinda part of the job to step in as needed...whether that’s at age 60 or 92.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Melissa Louise]

28 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I’m very sorry to hear about your dad, and I understand why you are concerned!

But I think the average 70yo is still far more competent than that, and doesn’t need to be treated as though their mind is no longer sharp enough to decide what TV channels to watch.

Yes. It's offensive to generalize about ppl who are in their 70's as it is about any other age group. Most 70+ yr olds are functioning as competent, healthy adults. Funny story - my aunties only STARTED volunteering at the old folks home in their 70's!

~

MrsT, that sounds very difficult. Sounds like your mom has had a rough year on top of everything else, with her cancer diagnosis and treatment. I'd consider that she's not trying to stop others in the family from getting the vaccine as a plus. 

But also worth considering she is having an anxiety response - the anxiety has 'hooked' on the vaccine. Is she generally open to treatment for anxiety? I think, instead of arguing about it, or refusing to discuss it, next time I might try to focus on the tone of her communication and not so much on the content. 'Mom, you're really anxious about this, aren't you?' I bet the anxiety is attached to her cancer in some way - it's scary when you get real close to serious illness and/or death. 

Because while she's wrong about the shedding, feelings themselves aren't right or wrong, and when causing distress, need hearing. 

Just my 2c worth. 

[chiguirre]

12 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

My point was that there seems to be a distressing trend here to make the assumption that just because a person has reached a certain age, they are probably incapable of making good decisions or even deciding what television stations to watch. And that age is apparently 55+ based on comments I have read over the past several months.

It is not okay to assume that once people reach a certain age, their judgment is impaired. It is rude and it is insulting.

 

It might be that people only post about their parents when there's a problem. So we're only hearing about people who are experiencing cognitive decline as they age. Posters whose parents are doing fine aren't going to post about "No Problems Here". 

(I'm lucky that my parents (who are 80 and 85) fall into that category so I've never had to post about their sudden mood swings or conspiracy theorizing or hoarding.)

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, chiguirre said:

It might be that people only post about their parents when there's a problem. So we're only hearing about people who are experiencing cognitive decline as they age. Posters whose parents are doing fine aren't going to post about "No Problems Here". 

(I'm lucky that my parents (who are 80 and 85) fall into that category so I've never had to post about their sudden mood swings or conspiracy theorizing or hoarding.)

I wish that was the case, but that hasn’t been what I have seen. 😞 

[pinball]

16 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

My point was that there seems to be a distressing trend here to make the assumption that just because a person has reached a certain age, they are probably incapable of making good decisions or even deciding what television stations to watch. And that age is apparently 55+ based on comments I have read over the past several months.

It is not okay to assume that once people reach a certain age, their judgment is impaired. It is rude and it is insulting.

And realistically, who are we to assume that we are the ones who get to define what is and is not “misinformation” for our parents or other adults? Who are we to decide what news stations they are allowed to watch? How can we be so sure that we are right and they are wrong? 

It is awful that some people feel the need to infantilize people simply because they are of a certain age. I would have been livid if anyone had ever tried to do that to my parents or grandparents, because they were most definitely mentally sound until they passed away in their 80s and 90s. And I sure don’t want anyone doing it to me just because I’m an “old lady” of 57.

You actually are the best year, if you were a Chevy. If you were a ‘57 Chevy, you’d probably be a Bel Air.

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I’m very sorry to hear about your dad, and I understand why you are concerned!

But I think the average 70yo is still far more competent than that, and doesn’t need to be treated as though their mind is no longer sharp enough to decide what TV channels to watch.

Thanks Cat.  I’m watching one of my parents become paranoid that they don’t understand things because of their age or age somehow no longer competent because of all the tech - but they are actually very sound.  It’s just the stereotypes around this stuff that’s making them worried.

[Clarita]

I have dealt with this type of thing from my mom my entire life. (My mom has been diagnosed with anxiety and have been offered meds for it.)

I don't steer her in the "right" direction all the time on her beliefs (whether they are the more crazy conspiracy theories or more normal controversial ones), because it would be exhausting for me. If it does come down to something where I think it's important for me to address I usually just address it in a discussion with her. If she starts being unreasonable, I tell her that these are my opinions and the reasons for my opinions and you have to respect and listen to them, if you want me to listen and respect yours. I have successfully steered her a few times to have a less "over the deep end" conspiracy theories. 

If it helps she is probably physically feeling "not right" and needs to attribute it to something because she is human. You can always relate to her not feeling 100% even if you don't believe in her theories of what is causing it.  

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

3 hours ago, Pen said:

 

I am feel sorry that you are feeling distressed and also sorry for your mother who is probably feeling distressed too

 

I wish that the current world situation weren’t driving such terrible wedges between people who at least once loved one another. . 
 

. 
 

I don’t want to write anything outside of JAWM parameters, except that one way or another I hope you will reconcile.

It sounds like she did her best to be a good mom for you. 

 

And it sounds like you are doing your best to be a good daughter too

 

 

 

Oh! I don’t mean that we are fighting or that there is bad blood between us.  There isn’t. I try to point out the scientific fallacies and then just listen.  Our relationship isn’t fractured even if this is driving me nuts.

I find that some of her generation(I don’t want to generalize) and my grandmother’s generation(she is 88) do tend to believe what the newscasters and YouTube “professionals” without critically thinking about it. But maybe back when they were growing up there wasn’t the misinformation and agendas to sort through, I don’t really know.  
She is definitely not feeling right but her primary care physician hasn’t wanted to dig deeper than routine bloodwork and a PET scan.  But my mom has not been herself since having thyroid cancer and half her thyroid removed.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Pen]

13 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Oh! I don’t mean that we are fighting or that there is bad blood between us.  There isn’t. I try to point out the scientific fallacies and then just listen.  Our relationship isn’t fractured even if this is driving me nuts.

I find that some of her generation(I don’t want to generalize) and my grandmother’s generation(she is 88) do tend to believe what the newscasters and YouTube “professionals” without critically thinking about it. But maybe back when they were growing up there wasn’t the misinformation and agendas to sort through, I don’t really know.  
She is definitely not feeling right but her primary care physician hasn’t wanted to dig deeper than routine bloodwork and a PET scan.  But my mom has not been herself since having thyroid cancer and half her thyroid removed.

That’s good about basically getting along!!!

I feel uplifted to hear that! 
 

I think your idea that there was not misinformation in previous eras is incorrect—sort of a rose colored lenses view toward the past that was “before your time” perhaps.  Though as you said, you don’t really know.

Since I amprobably more of that generation - perhaps even older than your mother for all I know— let me help out some of your knowing more.  (ETA - and even if not particularly true for your own mother, perhaps an important zeitgeist for times that may have been formative for her, imbued some of her thinking as part of the “collective unconscious”. And may help you as well to understand some of the “older generation” still involved in Wtm.) 

There’s been serious and very life and death important misinformation my whole life and as I said, I am probably closer to your mother’s generation than yours!  And there’s been substantial misinformation going back to my great grandmother’s time which was oldest generation I had direct contact with.  I presume it goes back and back a long time.

 I think however that there used to be relatively fewer different options for getting misinformation and a more consistent single cohesive stream of misinformation instead of the many multiple streams of different misinformation we tend to have now. In my younger days, other than maybe a few people with shortwave or CB radio one had pretty much only what’s now called the msm plus irl contacts... , and even a shortwave was very limited compared to the many sources that can be tuned into now.     So in times past it was easier for the msm to look almost infallible to many. That may be even more true for a generation that is even older than mine , particularly perhaps the generation now in their 80s or older perhaps  ... for example, “anchors” such as Walter Cronkite or so forth would seem like heavyweight towers of rectitude and could say pretty much anything they liked or anything they were told to say and little counter communication was possible...

Even when there was 1960’s “counterculture” while there was more a sense that mainstream information we were getting was not right, and realizing that we were told lies about VietNam and so forth, nonetheless often the truth was still elusive   Some got out in dribbles, Pentagon papers and so forth eventually got out but it took a very long time, and Much More probably did not get out to general public.  
 

If anything I think you may have it backwards to think that my generation (probably your mother’s as well) is naive about misinformation, and have probably missed understanding that we were a generation smack in or at tail end of stages of some major realizations that MSM, politicians, mainstream science too, is often misleading, false ... that one has to seek out truth about what’s real often behind a curtain of lies and that major skepticism for official narrative not gullibility tends to be a more dominant driver for many of us.  That may not be true for your own mother, but it is l believe a correct over generalization for many of “my era”.  
 

Your particular personal mom may not have been part of that, but it might help when you are frustrated and considering matters to think of the mainstream media misinformation for our era not as something that we accepted unquestioningly— but rather quite the opposite, as something that had very powerful agendas and helped get many of our fathers, brothers, boyfriends, sometimes husbands (depending on where exactly in that generation we were) killed in VietNam, along with terrible casualties for the Vietnamese people, and perhaps to understand that quite a few  people in my generation see what’s probably your generation ( an over generalization obviously!) as now overly trusting of the mainstream media, overly trusting of mainstream science,  and feeling really deeply concerned about that.  I think the feeling that the “other group,” the “other generation” perhaps, has fallen for misinformation, has even been “brainwashed” by misinformation goes both ways.  And I think it could help to realize that. 

 

I think it can be hard to think of the parent generation as possibly more openminded and wild and so forth than ones own. Parents always (eta often anyway, ) need to be seen as sort of “old fashioned” and staid, but in reality it doesn’t always work that way. Roaring 20’s era could be followed by depression and Holocaust/ww2 era, and Woodstock and VietNam era could be followed by ... what’s your era typified by?  
 

 

 

there’s a joke  that goes

question “What’s the difference between a conspiracy theory and the truth?”  
 

 

 

 

 

Answer “around Six Months”
 

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Pen
Added that there was a certain *zeitgeist* of “mother’s generation” which may affect someone even if she was not personally involved

[Halftime Hope]

I will have to say that this has been a pretty tough year, cognitively and emotionally. We've seen leaders and institutions that should be trustworthy behave in utterly incompetent and reprehensible ways when their wisdom was needed the most.  We've seen manipulation, gaslighting, and constantly-changing footing. 

Especially for someone who loves healthcare and understands public health and science, this has probably been a really defeating year/18 months.  It has to be even more difficult for her when her own health feels so vulnerable. 

At one point a few months ago, I had a terrible weekend when I was just so brokenhearted about the massive loss of life that would follow from a decision that had just been announced. I just wanted to scream to the universe, "It's so unfair: so many well-loved people will die because of this!"   

You might *ask* her to walk you through the logic of her thinking, and then really, really listen.  That's when I've found some breakthroughs when I've been fearful. When I could articulate the fear, articulate what precisely I thought would lead to x or y, sometimes I've been able to find a healthier balance as I heard myself say something that wasn't balanced.  And sometimes articulating the process shows me changes I can make to protect myself, so I have more peace about the diminished risks. 

I hope that helps and wish you both many years of loving relationship.