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Mom in Va. who lived through Cultural Revolution addresses school board regarding Critical Race Theory


Fritz
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15 hours ago, LucyStoner said:

Agreed. 

The fact that advocating for non-violence, something that used to be pretty radical, has become increasingly seen as being milquetoast moderate fence sitting at best if not flat out racist is exactly what I am finding problematic about the shift I have perceived from my admittedly very lefty city.  Violence is also used as justification for backlash- we can see that from looking at the points when non-violent street protests are discredited because of outbreaks of rioting or looting.  

Here in Silicon Valley, too.

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27 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Sure but we have NO IDEA how the district is handling this, whether it was a teacher gone rogue or some deeper effort school-wide, or what their goals were/are because it hasn’t actually been reported on in any depth by local journalists. Best I can tell, there are quotes reported on a blog by an agent provocateur that spread through the right wing ecosystem. They all repeat the same text. I have no idea what undergirds any of it. If I search Cupertino CRT I find astroturf blogs and a single opinion piece. That’s it.

One of the parents wanted to be anonymous. Think about where they came from, where they live now, what they are complaining about and why they might not want to be named. The principal and administration acknowledged it happened. 

ETA: I'm not against introspection. I'd like it to age-appropriate and private, not to be done in front of the whole class.

44 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

The assignments being highlighted aren’t even all about race. Plum posted one that didn’t even mention race at all.

It's all blurred into intersectionality programs, multicultural education, ethnic studies, history, civics, etc. 

Here's the story of CA's Ethnic Studies program legislation that uses CRT as one part of it. It's not always a specific class. It can be brought into any class, any lesson. 

The most complex disagreement is foundational: Should teaching about past and current racial inequities and injustices be done primarily through the lens of white supremacy, the deliberate oppression by whites in America to gain and maintain power?

That is the underlying principle of critical race theory, which developed in the 1980s as an academic theory to explain exclusionary zoning and government-sanctioned discriminatory mortgage regulations. It is now applied more broadly to explicit and implicit racism. The model curriculum identified it as a “key theoretical framework and pedagogy” for ethnic studies.

Rustin believes that’s appropriate. “Ethnic studies without critical race theory is not ethnic studies. It would be like a science class without the scientific method then. There is no critical analysis of systems of power and experiences of these marginalized groups without critical race theory.”

Lori Meyers, a 1st-grade private school teacher in the Bay Area, agrees that critical race theory may be a legitimate way to view the impact of race and racism. But it must not be “the only tool in the toolbox,” she said. To make that case, she co-founded Educators for Excellence in Ethnic Studies and has become its primary voice.

“I’m concerned about critical race theory being the underlying pedagogy when its underlying philosophy is that one group is oppressing another,” she said. “When students are told that the privileges that they have are all based on race that make them dominant or oppressors over other people, that’s a discriminatory practice. It pits groups against each other and is going to create hostility and tensions.”

Meyers said she supports ethnic studies: “We need to learn the authentic history of what’s going on in our country. A lot of that is not taught right now. We need to have a greater understanding of each other.” But critical race theory will not lead to an appreciation of the contributions of multiple cultures that the Legislature envisioned with ethnic studies, she said.

https://edsource.org/2021/a-final-vote-after-many-rewrites-for-californias-controversial-ethnic-studies-curriculum/651338

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16 hours ago, LucyStoner said:

I don't think they are the same, that said, I also don't know how different the most extreme ends of the political spectrum are from each other.  It's interesting to me that the measure is more or less the same between parties.  

You are right that it is largely empty rhetoric but it does give me pause.  My older son remarked that it was a form of American exceptionalism for Americans to believe that America is somehow, when compared to the rest of the world, uniquely bad or in a singular category of awful.  The same thing but flipped as those who think America is uniquely good.  A friend commented to me that our most lefty of friends who love to talk about REVOLUTION had to be extraordinarily privileged if they think that what average, everyday people in the states are experiencing (even average people living at the margins or furthest out on that intersectionality wheel) is actually bad enough for them to be willing to see their kids die in a civil war. 

Violence is a symptom, not a cure.  

Equal sentiment for those who say to tear/burn the systems down. Perhaps they'd like to go live somewhere where there has been a power vacuum, and then report back on what ensued. 

 

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6 hours ago, Harpymom said:

In my opinion, CRT must show up across the curriculum.  The construct of White is legally favored by law, health care policy, education practices, policing and voting, commercial banking, real estate and lending, non-profit organization, environmental policies, and every other social scaffold.  To confine teaching about race to history is to miss the entire point.

See, even if a lesson doesn’t go as far as making kids identify themselves as oppressed/oppressor, things like this connected to CRT are going to be a big problem for a lot of people.  These are exactly the type of claims that are made without evidence other than disproportionate outcomes and expected to be accepted that make the less extreme implementations of CRT still a big problem for many people.

Commercial banking, real estate and lending were racist, and that suppressed the development of generational wealth in minority communities.  But is it racist now?  Are these industries still placing roadblocks to minorities?  

Voting access had racial roadblocks placed for many years, but does it now?  A certain position makes claims about ID requirements and policies against handing out water in line as racist policies, but the only way that holds up is if you honestly believe minorities are less capable of acquiring an ID or bringing their own water.  Are there any actual racist roadblocks to voting access now?  

In education practices, the most common form of racist practice seems to be of the lessened expectation type (which is actually pushed by some proponents of CRT, such as in this math educator course promoted by the OR department of education https://equitablemath.org/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery that says making kids do independent work and show their work in math class are symptomatic of white supremacy).  In higher education, actual concrete policies at many schools favor most minorities while impeding Asian students with an actual racist policy.  Are there policies or practices in place in our country actually seeking to impede other minorities’ educational progress?

 We cannot logically assume that anytime there are disparate outcomes between races, it must be caused by racism.  Correlation does not indicate causation.  If it did, disproportionate rates of incarceration between genders would indicate that men are being overwhelmingly oppressed with unjust mass imprisonment, which is ridiculous.  This doesn’t mean that the cause isn’t racism, either, but we have to actually show evidence of that, not just teach it as gospel to be accepted on faith.  

Correlation can also be caused by other factors; for example, the strongest statistical correlation between an environmental factor and poor educational outcomes, juvenile delinquency, criminal behavior, and incarceration is the lack of an intact family with the biological father in the home.  Doesn’t it stand to reason, then, that communities where this home situation is less common would have higher rates of these problems?

 

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49 minutes ago, Condessa said:

See, even if a lesson doesn’t go as far as making kids identify themselves as oppressed/oppressor, things like this connected to CRT are going to be a big problem for a lot of people.  These are exactly the type of claims that are made without evidence other than disproportionate outcomes and expected to be accepted that make the less extreme implementations of CRT still a big problem for many people.

Commercial banking, real estate and lending were racist, and that suppressed the development of generational wealth in minority communities.  But is it racist now?  Are these industries still placing roadblocks to minorities?  
Voting access had racial roadblocks placed for many years, but does it now?  A certain position makes claims about ID requirements and policies against handing out water in line as racist policies, but the only way that holds up is if you honestly believe minorities are less capable of acquiring an ID or bringing their own water.  Are there any actual racist roadblocks to voting access now?  

In education practices, the most common form of racist practice seems to be of the lessened expectation type (which is actually pushed by some proponents of CRT, such as in this math educator course promoted by the OR department of education https://equitablemath.org/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery that says making kids do independent work and show their work in math class are symptomatic of white supremacy).  In higher education, actual concrete policies at many schools favor most minorities while impeding Asian students with an actual racist policy.  Are there policies or practices in place in our country actually seeking to impede other minorities’ educational progress?

 We cannot logically assume that anytime there are disparate outcomes between races, it must be the outcome of slavery.  Correlation does not indicate causation.  If it did, disproportionate rates of incarceration between genders would indicate that men are being overwhelmingly oppressed with unjust mass imprisonment, which is ridiculous.  This doesn’t mean that the cause isn’t racism, either, but we have to actually show evidence of that, not just teach it as gospel to be accepted on faith.  

Correlation can also be caused by other factors; for example, the strongest statistical correlation between an environmental factor and poor educational outcomes, juvenile delinquency, criminal behavior, and incarceration is the lack of an intact family with the biological father in the home.  Doesn’t it stand to reason, then, that communities where this home situation is less common would have higher rates of these problems?

Real estate…

Quote

Black homeowner had a white friend stand in for third appraisal. Her home value doubled.

(why a box🤷‍♀️)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.indystar.com/amp/4936571001

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/mortgage-discrimination-black-and-latino-paying-millions-more-in-interest-study-shows/

 

Voting …

 

(Edit)Gun permits are acceptable ID but not tribal cards.  Make that make sense. 
 

Why do black people need to bring water to vote in the first place?  Fewer polling places. 
https://www.npr.org/2020/10/17/924527679/why-do-nonwhite-georgia-voters-have-to-wait-in-line-for-hours-too-few-polling-pl

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/02/texas-polling-sites-closures-voting

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1774221002
Counties with larger minority populations – most of them the urban centers of large metropolitan areas – were left with fewer polling sites and poll workers per active voter,

 

schools…

Minority school get $23 BILLION less in funding yearly.  
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1774221002
The researchers at EdBuild calculated that racially concentrated non-white districts receive, on average, only $11,682 of funding per student, in comparison to $13,908 for racially concentrated, white districts. Collectively, this means that, as EdBuild notes, "nonwhite school districts receive $23 billion less than white districts, despite serving the same number of students."


 

At some point enough “coincidences” add up to something more.  
 


 

 

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1 hour ago, LucyStoner said:

There’s a lot of research on the outcomes of anti-bias trainings- I don’t draw my conclusions from a singular source.  

I’ve also sat in many such trainings myself over the years and watched what happens to the organization after.  Sometimes it’s positive, sometimes it’s very negative and most of the time, it seems like nothing changes.  One time my brother was in such a training and the trainer who was very much in a CRT framework communicated a message that not only seriously turned him off (who was very much part of the choir before the training) but was also borderline sociopathic- basically my brother, then a low wage frontline worker at a Seattle non-profit, was told that when our family was targeted my skinheads for ongoing harassment, that that didn’t really affect any of the white family members.  Generalizations like that lead to some pretty wack-a-doodle conclusions.  

I don’t want to avoid introspection or see schools avoid it.  To me part of that introspection for school staff is working to deliver a higher quality lesson than the ones I am seeing and hearing about.  One of the links in this thread is our school district.  Like I said before, nothing I would yank my kids over but it’s definitely stuff that requires contextualization for my literal minded autistic 12 year old son who earlier this year after school announced that boys were bad and I had to figure out how to communicate to him that that (hopefully) wasn’t what the teacher was trying to communicate.   

But since when are wealthy districts like Cupertino and Seattle And Loudon county representative of what’s happening all over. Far more often I see reports of teachers holding slave auctions and asking students to pick cotton. It doesn’t make me want to educate LESS, but MORE and differently.

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The bigotry of low expectations isn’t confined to or even primarily shared by CRT advocates. I can only assume people saying that have never been subject to it because it is a view equally prevalent on the right for different reasons. I saw it in Arkansas. I saw it in Seattle. It’s everywhere.

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14 minutes ago, HeartString said:

Real estate…

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.indystar.com/amp/4936571001

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/mortgage-discrimination-black-and-latino-paying-millions-more-in-interest-study-shows/

 

Voting …

 

NRA cards are acceptable ID but not tribal cards.  Make that make sense. 
 

Why do black people need to bring water to vote in the first place?  Fewer polling places. 
https://www.npr.org/2020/10/17/924527679/why-do-nonwhite-georgia-voters-have-to-wait-in-line-for-hours-too-few-polling-pl

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/02/texas-polling-sites-closures-voting

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1774221002
Counties with larger minority populations – most of them the urban centers of large metropolitan areas – were left with fewer polling sites and poll workers per active voter,

 

schools…

Minority school get $23 BILLION less in funding yearly.  
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1774221002
The researchers at EdBuild calculated that racially concentrated non-white districts receive, on average, only $11,682 of funding per student, in comparison to $13,908 for racially concentrated, white districts. Collectively, this means that, as EdBuild notes, "nonwhite school districts receive $23 billion less than white districts, despite serving the same number of students."


 

At some point enough “coincidences” add up to something more.  
 


 

 

What state allows NRA cards?

what state allows NRA cards but NOT tribal IDs?

Texas lets you use a state issued hand gun permit

I saw Texas allows voters to use a state issued handgun license as well as several other options

Edited by pinball
Forgot “permit”
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4 minutes ago, pinball said:

What state allows NRA cards?

what state allows NRA cards but NOT tribal IDs?

North Dakota did not allow tribal IDs in 2018. Supreme Court refused to hear the case.

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/13/657125819/many-native-ids-wont-be-accepted-at-north-dakota-polling-places

Follow up from 2020

https://www.npr.org/2020/02/14/806083852/north-dakota-and-native-american-tribes-settle-voter-id-lawsuits

I don’t know about NRA cards, but gun permits are allowed in Texas but not state university student IDs.

Here is an article explaining why IDs can be hard for some people to obtain. It sites over 600,000 registered voters in Texas alone who don’t have the required ID. It also says 11% of Americans have no photo ID.

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Here’s one — two black girls were declared valedictorian and salutatorian of their high school. They had high GPAs due to AP and Honors courses. Parents, including from the main family in town, who are white, insisted the handbook did not include the extra points in calculating valedictorian/salutatorian, and pressured the school to install two other (white) kids as well., who had the same UNweighted GPA but a lower weighted GPA. This is in Mississippi, where other young black women have sued, alleging their schools are calculating erroneously and this excluding them as valedictorians.

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17 minutes ago, pinball said:

What state allows NRA cards?

what state allows NRA cards but NOT tribal IDs?

Texas lets you use a state issued hand gun permit

I saw Texas allows voters to use a state issued handgun license as well as several other options

Yes, it’s a gun permit, not NRA card.  I’ll correct it.  It doesn’t make it much better though.  

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21 minutes ago, pinball said:

But does Texas NOT accept a tribal ID?

 

According to this…https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx#Details.  In Texas a handgun Permit is explicitly spelled out as an acceptable document while a tribal ID is not.  Make of that what you will.  
 

That CO wanted so badly to keep tribal IDs from being accepted that it had to go to the Supreme Court and then took 2  additional years to settle that is absurd. 
 

 

ETA: there are many places that take both.  But the fact that it’s an issue at all is telling.  If this was the ONLY issue that would be one thing, but it’s a tiny bit on a huge stack of issues. 

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3 hours ago, Plum said:

These two moms that both left China, who live on opposite sides of the country, are sharing the same sentiments and there's nothing to that?

While I certainly think it is worth listening to their perspective and I honestly haven’t decided what I think about all of this and am still processing, I’m guessing it would not be difficult to find people who grew up in China and disagree with them. As I mentioned earlier, this was a very common occurrence during the last presidential election. People who grew up in the same country before coming to the US and being strongly for one candidate or the other based on their experiences and views.

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1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

But since when are wealthy districts like Cupertino and Seattle And Loudon county representative of what’s happening all over. Far more often I see reports of teachers holding slave auctions and asking students to pick cotton. It doesn’t make me want to educate LESS, but MORE and differently.

Seattle is a wealthy area but Seattle Schools are not what I would call a wealthy district.  It’s a district that is largely segregated and as you know has long standing issues.  Fully 1/5 of the students living in SPS don’t go to public school at all.  

The schools my nieces and nephews attend have 40% (Seattle)-nearly 100% (Federal Way) rates of families qualifying for free and reduced lunch.  That Seattle is a fairly affluent city doesn’t erase that most people here are not affluent and there’s a lot of poverty.  

There are serious problems here and funneling resources to shoddy consulting and professional development helps perpetuate that rather than solve it.  

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1 hour ago, Condessa said:


Voting access had racial roadblocks placed for many years, but does it now?  A certain position makes claims about ID requirements and policies against handing out water in line as racist policies, but the only way that holds up is if you honestly believe minorities are less capable of acquiring an ID or bringing their own water.  Are there any actual racist roadblocks to voting access now? 

 

I’m sure you understand that a policy or law does not have to be straight up racist in order for it to result in disparate outcomes based on race? Here are just two articles with links to others articles and studies. There is much, much more out there on this topic if you are interested.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/07/poll-prri-voter-suppression/565355/

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-black-americans-still-face-obstacles-to-voting-at-every-step-2020-6

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1 hour ago, LucyStoner said:

Seattle is a wealthy area but Seattle Schools are not what I would call a wealthy district.  It’s a district that is largely segregated and as you know has long standing issues.  Fully 1/5 of the students living in SPS don’t go to public school at all.  

The schools my nieces and nephews attend have 40% (Seattle)-nearly 100% (Federal Way) rates of families qualifying for free and reduced lunch.  That Seattle is a fairly affluent city doesn’t erase that most people here are not affluent and there’s a lot of poverty.  

There are serious problems here and funneling resources to shoddy consulting and professional development helps perpetuate that rather than solve it.  

Yes there’s a lot of poverty OUTSIDE the city. Most SPS schools tho are not majority low-income, not even half, and the loudest voices are not families in poverty or marginalized groups. The more people in poverty get pushed out by the expense of living there, the worse the place has become. It does have serious problems but, they’re left wing woke people problems, what Rev. Sharpton calls latte liberals. I don’t agree with those people either. I’m definitely to their right. I just don’t think Seattle is representative of where most of America is or what’s happening in most of America (having lived there and many other places) and I don’t think it’s right or fair for extremes to define the terms of debate/discussion. By that measure, I could conjure up any number of really offensive racist activities, incidents, and assignments in schools, not just from the last five years, that demonstrate an absolute need for intervention. I find most training outfits kinda fly by night and a waste of professional development dollars, separate and apart from this issue. We’re not gonna get from a place where the blind are leading the blind without removing the blinders tho.

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1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

Yes there’s a lot of poverty OUTSIDE the city. Most SPS schools tho are not majority low-income, not even half, and the loudest voices are not families in poverty or marginalized groups. The more people in poverty get pushed out by the expense of living there, the worse the place has become. It does have serious problems but, they’re left wing woke people problems, what Rev. Shared ton calls latte liberals. I don’t think it’s representative of where most of America is or what’s happening in most of America and I don’t think it’s right or fair for extremes to define the terms of debate/discussion.

Quite a lot of the schools in Seattle serve a large number of marginalized students.  The most affluent portion of Seattle doesn’t utilize the public schools.  I can think of a number of Seattle schools that are serving 40-50% students who qualify for free lunch.  And many of the students who don’t are close to that.  Yes, the affluent parents are the loudest and they have engineered a system where a handful of public schools feel more like private schools but that’s not the norm.  I don’t think it’s a good idea to erase the reality of poverty in richer areas.  

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1 minute ago, LucyStoner said:

Quite a lot of the schools in Seattle serve a large number of marginalized students.  The most affluent portion of Seattle doesn’t utilize the public schools.  I can think of a number of Seattle schools that are serving 40-50% students who qualify for free lunch.  And many of the students who don’t are close to that.  Yes, the affluent parents are the loudest and they have engineered a system where a handful of public schools feel more like private schools but that’s not the norm.  I don’t think it’s a good idea to erase the reality of poverty in richer areas.  

No one is erasing it. The complaints aren’t generally coming from parents in poverty tho. They’re just not. Why is that? It seems to me there’s an attempt being made to let the loud voices/complaints of well-resourced parents drown out everything else, not the other way around.

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29 minutes ago, HeartString said:

According to this…https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx#Details.  In Texas a handgun Permit is explicitly spelled out as an acceptable document while a tribal ID is not.  Make of that what you will.  
 

That CO wanted so badly to keep tribal IDs from being accepted that it had to go to the Supreme Court and then took 2  additional years to settle that is absurd. 
 

 

ETA: there are many places that take both.  But the fact that it’s an issue at all is telling.  If this was the ONLY issue that would be one thing, but it’s a tiny bit on a huge stack of issues. 

Thanks.

i found this...

“For some members of native tribes, their only means of identification is their tribal ID. Native American tribal documents are federally issued and establish both identity and employment authorization. In fact, getting a tribal ID in Texas is more rigorous verification process: both a birth certificate and DNA testing is required. Nevertheless, Texas does not include tribal IDs as an acceptable form of proving identity at the polls. “

https://lettexasvote.org/bold-solutions/accept-more-ids-for-voting/

 

IMO, It seems like a tribal ID should be accepted. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Fritz said:

When I started this thread I truly had no idea that many of you had either never heard that this was being taught in school systems across the country, or where unaware of the controversy over it's implementation. I have been hearing about this for awhile now. Maybe because I do read/watch Fox news. 

I haven’t seen that anyone is unaware of this controversy at all. Rather,  I think there is disagreement about the nature of the controversy. In particular is the fact that Fox News in particular has been greatly amplifying this over the past few weeks, and that’s why we’re suddenly hearing about it everywhere.

3 hours ago, Fritz said:

Paraphrasing from the video, "If you believe in kids and teach them to believe in themselves they will rise to the occasion and succeed." IMO, that's the secret sauce no matter gender, race, or sex! This starts at home with the parents. I realize not every kid gets that from their parents. Having the schools do a better job of this rather than studying the wheel of privileges' or focusing on our perceived differences based on race seems likely to bring about a better outcome for all kids. 

I don’t like the whole wheel of privilege thing, but I think it’s totally missing the point to think that structural racism can be overcome just by addressing it in the home.  Part of the whole point, is that our system is set up such that it does not take just the same amount of effort for all kids to succeed.

2 hours ago, Condessa said:

 

I missed the quote. It had to do with Rufo being a nut.  I  can’t resolve the exact wording to respond to, but basically I wanted to make the point that what he said is underlying so much of this current discussion, whether people realize that’s where it’s coming from or not.  It’s kind of similar to when people are espousing Q anon ideas, but don’t realize that that’s where they originated from. Now, that’s not at all to say but there aren’t lots of valid criticisms of how this is being taught in schools, and I think we’re having a discussion about that, but the current conversation being had in the US about it today is largely based on what Rufo  and his ilk are trying to do, right down to the exact same arguments being made in this thread are the ones that they’ve been making their rounds on Fox News. Marxism, the specific examples, etc.

1 hour ago, Condessa said:

See, even if a lesson doesn’t go as far as making kids identify themselves as oppressed/oppressor, things like this connected to CRT are going to be a big problem for a lot of people.  These are exactly the type of claims that are made without evidence other than disproportionate outcomes and expected to be accepted that make the less extreme implementations of CRT still a big problem for many people.

Commercial banking, real estate and lending were racist, and that suppressed the development of generational wealth in minority communities.  But is it racist now?  Are these industries still placing roadblocks to minorities?  

Voting access had racial roadblocks placed for many years, but does it now?  A certain position makes claims about ID requirements and policies against handing out water in line as racist policies, but the only way that holds up is if you honestly believe minorities are less capable of acquiring an ID or bringing their own water.  Are there any actual racist roadblocks to voting access now?  

In education practices, the most common form of racist practice seems to be of the lessened expectation type (which is actually pushed by some proponents of CRT, such as in this math educator course promoted by the OR department of education https://equitablemath.org/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery that says making kids do independent work and show their work in math class are symptomatic of white supremacy).  In higher education, actual concrete policies at many schools favor most minorities while impeding Asian students with an actual racist policy.  Are there policies or practices in place in our country actually seeking to impede other minorities’ educational progress?

 We cannot logically assume that anytime there are disparate outcomes between races, it must be caused by racism.  Correlation does not indicate causation.  If it did, disproportionate rates of incarceration between genders would indicate that men are being overwhelmingly oppressed with unjust mass imprisonment, which is ridiculous.  This doesn’t mean that the cause isn’t racism, either, but we have to actually show evidence of that, not just teach it as gospel to be accepted on faith.  

Correlation can also be caused by other factors; for example, the strongest statistical correlation between an environmental factor and poor educational outcomes, juvenile delinquency, criminal behavior, and incarceration is the lack of an intact family with the biological father in the home.  Doesn’t it stand to reason, then, that communities where this home situation is less common would have higher rates of these problems?

 

I’ve got to go, so I’m going to have to come back to this one later.

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1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

No one is erasing it. The complaints aren’t generally coming from parents in poverty tho. They’re just not. Why is that? It seems to me there’s an attempt being made to let the loud voices/complaints of well-resourced parents drown out everything else, not the other way around.

That NV charter school, Democracy Prep Agassi campus is an inner city 97% minority 100% economically disadvantaged charter school within the 5th largest school district. 

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1 hour ago, Condessa said:

 

Correlation can also be caused by other factors; for example, the strongest statistical correlation between an environmental factor and poor educational outcomes, juvenile delinquency, criminal behavior, and incarceration is the lack of an intact family with the biological father in the home.  Doesn’t it stand to reason, then, that communities where this home situation is less common would have higher rates of these problems?

 

And why is it that black families are less likely to have a biological father in the home?  Might historical patterns of racial disparities in policing and sentencing have a lot to do with it?  You can’t say it’s not racism because it correlates with this other thing without asking how the other thing is affected by racism.

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1 hour ago, stripe said:

Here’s one — two black girls were declared valedictorian and salutatorian of their high school. They had high GPAs due to AP and Honors courses. Parents, including from the main family in town, who are white, insisted the handbook did not include the extra points in calculating valedictorian/salutatorian, and pressured the school to install two other (white) kids as well., who had the same UNweighted GPA but a lower weighted GPA. This is in Mississippi, where other young black women have sued, alleging their schools are calculating erroneously and this excluding them as valedictorians.

I read the article on the Chicago Times bc I could access it

this looks like the school made an error based on their own student handbook.

i think they did only thing thing the could have done to fix it, which was to make co-valedictorians and co-salutatorians.

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19 minutes ago, Plum said:

That NV charter school, Democracy Prep Agassi campus is an inner city 97% minority 100% economically disadvantaged charter school within the 5th largest school district. 

One does not equal generally. I haven’t seen ANY reportage that suggests this was anything other than a singular parental complaint. I looked. Have you?

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50 minutes ago, HeartString said:

According to this…https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx#Details.  In Texas a handgun Permit is explicitly spelled out as an acceptable document while a tribal ID is not.  Make of that what you will.  
 

 

It's not hard to determine the reasoning for those rules. And it has nothing to do with "voting security".

But people will continue to focus on CRT while completely ignoring the fact that official IDs for a whole segment of voters are not considered valid enough for elections.

But, really, America isn't a racist country. 🤮

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12 minutes ago, pinball said:

I read the article on the Chicago Times bc I could access it

this looks like the school made an error based on their own student handbook.

i think they did only thing thing the could have done to fix it, which was to make co-valedictorians and co-salutatorians.

It looks like Mississippi has a recurrent theme of white students being later inserted as co-valedictorians/salutatorians when black students have higher weighted GPAs.  You will notice in the case below, the white students were given better advice and more opportunities from their counselor(s) while the black student was given inaccurate advice and steered towards lower level classes

 https://mississippitoday.org/2019/10/23/court-rules-against-former-student-in-cleveland-school-district-discrimination-claim-over-shared-valedictorian-title/

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1 minute ago, stripe said:

It looks like Mississippi has a recurrent theme of white students being later inserted as co-valedictorians/salutatorians when black students have higher weighted GPAs.  You will notice in the case below, the white students were given better advice and more opportunities from their counselor(s) while the black student was given inaccurate advice and steered towards lower level classes

 https://mississippitoday.org/2019/10/23/court-rules-against-former-student-in-cleveland-school-district-discrimination-claim-over-shared-valedictorian-title/

That site kept crashing. So I can’t comment

however, the story from this year seems pretty straight forward. It was the school’s error in the first place and they fixed it.

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The Jewish community is concerned about CA's AB-101 ethnic studies curriculum and requirements legislation I posted up thread. It's an example of how an entire group is against this curriculum and for valid reasons. The public school system and states may have good intentions but their follow-through is always a trainwreck and this isn't something that should be screwed up. 

 

 

SANTA CRUZ, California (Press Release) – More than a thousand Californians, including nearly 70 rabbis, today petitioned the California Legislative Jewish Caucus to oppose AB 101, a bill to make ethnic studies courses a high school graduation requirement. The California Assembly is likely to debate AB 101 next week.

Although AB 101 recommends that school districts use the Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum (ESMC) recently approved by the California State Board of Education, it allows for the use of any curriculum approved by local school boards, including the rejected antisemitic and anti-Zionist first-draft of ESMC. The first draft was opposed by 20,000 Californians, the vast majority of Jewish organizations, and the Jewish Caucus, which stated clearly that it would “marginalize Jewish students and fuel hatred and discrimination against the Jewish community.” Governor Gavin Newsom promised the original curriculum “would never see the light of day.”

Dear Members of the California Legislative Jewish Caucus,

Although there is still considerable disagreement in the Jewish community about the Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum (ESMC) recently approved by the State Board of Education, both in terms of its specific content and its Critical Ethnic Studies framework, that is not our primary concern now. Rather, we are profoundly alarmed that while AB 101 recommends school districts use the SBE-approved ESMC in developing courses that would fulfill the graduation requirement, it also allows the use of any curriculum “approved by the governing board of the school district,” even the inflammatory and overtly antisemitic first draft of the ESMC. For reasons that will be explained below, we believe that if AB 101 becomes law, many if not most school districts in the state will choose to adopt the discredited first ESMC draft — or an even more extreme version of it — in implementing the law, thereby forcing all public and charter high school students to take a course that will incite tremendous ethnic and racial division, bigotry and harm, especially for Jewish students.

If AB 101 becomes law, hundreds of districts will have to quickly decide which ethnic studies curriculum to adopt as the basis for the new requirement, and although the bill encourages adoption of the SBE-approved ESMC, we believe that many, if not most, districts will prefer the highly problematic “liberated” curriculum because of the overwhelming endorsement of the antisemitic first draft of the ESMC by teachers unions and the higher education community, as well as the successful efforts of those promoting the “liberated” curriculum to create pathways for teacher training and professional development using a Critical Ethnic Studies framework.

Despite claims that AB 101 contains safeguards to prevent ethnic studies courses from promoting “bias, bigotry and discrimination,” such language is simply a restatement of a statute in the CA Education Code that has been on the books for decades. And as we have seen from highly politicized ethnic studies classes taught at the college level, these so-called guardrails will do nothing to prevent a curriculum based in Critical Ethnic Studies — whether approved by the SBE or promoted by the Liberated group — from portraying Jews and Israel in anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist ways, and inciting animus and harm towards Jewish students.

Given that the Jewish community does not have the bandwidth to oppose the adoption of the antisemitic “liberated” curriculum in each of the hundreds of school districts where it is likely to be considered if AB 101 becomes law, we urge you to take the lead once again in opposing this dangerous bill. The safety and well-being of our children and our community depends on it.

 

AMCHA Director Tammi Rossman-Benjamin recently testified before the California Assembly Education Committee in opposition to AB 101, and AMCHA submitted a formal and comprehensive position letter to the committee. The letter details how and why any curriculum rooted in Critical Ethnic Studies can easily become a vehicle for inciting division and hate, including antisemitism, since the discipline portrays Jewish Americans as racially privileged oppressors and Israel as a white supremacist apartheid state. AMCHA also points out that the rejected curriculum and the state-approved model curriculum stand in stark contrast to what legislators intended when they approved the bill mandating the development of the curriculum, which calls for a non-political, multicultural approach to ethnic studies that would prepare students in one of the most ethnically diverse states in the nation “to be global citizens with an appreciation for the contributions of multiple cultures.”

https://www.sdjewishworld.com/2021/05/20/advocates-petition-against-california-ethnic-studies-bill/

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5 minutes ago, Plum said:

The Jewish community is concerned about CA's AB-101 ethnic studies curriculum and requirements legislation I posted up thread. It's an example of how an entire group is against this curriculum and for valid reasons. The public school system and states may have good intentions but their follow-through is always a trainwreck and this isn't something that should be screwed up. 

 

 

SANTA CRUZ, California (Press Release) – More than a thousand Californians, including nearly 70 rabbis, today petitioned the California Legislative Jewish Caucus to oppose AB 101, a bill to make ethnic studies courses a high school graduation requirement. The California Assembly is likely to debate AB 101 next week.

Although AB 101 recommends that school districts use the Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum (ESMC) recently approved by the California State Board of Education, it allows for the use of any curriculum approved by local school boards, including the rejected antisemitic and anti-Zionist first-draft of ESMC. The first draft was opposed by 20,000 Californians, the vast majority of Jewish organizations, and the Jewish Caucus, which stated clearly that it would “marginalize Jewish students and fuel hatred and discrimination against the Jewish community.” Governor Gavin Newsom promised the original curriculum “would never see the light of day.”

Dear Members of the California Legislative Jewish Caucus,

Although there is still considerable disagreement in the Jewish community about the Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum (ESMC) recently approved by the State Board of Education, both in terms of its specific content and its Critical Ethnic Studies framework, that is not our primary concern now. Rather, we are profoundly alarmed that while AB 101 recommends school districts use the SBE-approved ESMC in developing courses that would fulfill the graduation requirement, it also allows the use of any curriculum “approved by the governing board of the school district,” even the inflammatory and overtly antisemitic first draft of the ESMC. For reasons that will be explained below, we believe that if AB 101 becomes law, many if not most school districts in the state will choose to adopt the discredited first ESMC draft — or an even more extreme version of it — in implementing the law, thereby forcing all public and charter high school students to take a course that will incite tremendous ethnic and racial division, bigotry and harm, especially for Jewish students.

If AB 101 becomes law, hundreds of districts will have to quickly decide which ethnic studies curriculum to adopt as the basis for the new requirement, and although the bill encourages adoption of the SBE-approved ESMC, we believe that many, if not most, districts will prefer the highly problematic “liberated” curriculum because of the overwhelming endorsement of the antisemitic first draft of the ESMC by teachers unions and the higher education community, as well as the successful efforts of those promoting the “liberated” curriculum to create pathways for teacher training and professional development using a Critical Ethnic Studies framework.

Despite claims that AB 101 contains safeguards to prevent ethnic studies courses from promoting “bias, bigotry and discrimination,” such language is simply a restatement of a statute in the CA Education Code that has been on the books for decades. And as we have seen from highly politicized ethnic studies classes taught at the college level, these so-called guardrails will do nothing to prevent a curriculum based in Critical Ethnic Studies — whether approved by the SBE or promoted by the Liberated group — from portraying Jews and Israel in anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist ways, and inciting animus and harm towards Jewish students.

Given that the Jewish community does not have the bandwidth to oppose the adoption of the antisemitic “liberated” curriculum in each of the hundreds of school districts where it is likely to be considered if AB 101 becomes law, we urge you to take the lead once again in opposing this dangerous bill. The safety and well-being of our children and our community depends on it.

 

AMCHA Director Tammi Rossman-Benjamin recently testified before the California Assembly Education Committee in opposition to AB 101, and AMCHA submitted a formal and comprehensive position letter to the committee. The letter details how and why any curriculum rooted in Critical Ethnic Studies can easily become a vehicle for inciting division and hate, including antisemitism, since the discipline portrays Jewish Americans as racially privileged oppressors and Israel as a white supremacist apartheid state. AMCHA also points out that the rejected curriculum and the state-approved model curriculum stand in stark contrast to what legislators intended when they approved the bill mandating the development of the curriculum, which calls for a non-political, multicultural approach to ethnic studies that would prepare students in one of the most ethnically diverse states in the nation “to be global citizens with an appreciation for the contributions of multiple cultures.”

https://www.sdjewishworld.com/2021/05/20/advocates-petition-against-california-ethnic-studies-bill/

Ok. So there’s a proposal that’s being debated and recommendations that are being/have been revised. That’s an example of systems working, no? Criticisms occurred, plans were changed, input is still happening. Exactly what’s the problem? Nothing has been finalized yet. It’s sausage making in progress. What’s your alternative, mandates without guidance/input or no guidance at all? What would you prefer to see happen?

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39 minutes ago, pinball said:

I read the article on the Chicago Times bc I could access it

this looks like the school made an error based on their own student handbook.

i think they did only thing thing the could have done to fix it, which was to make co-valedictorians and co-salutatorians.

And hopefully they will change the policy going forward to use weighted GPAs. It’s hard to imagine why they would not want the student with the highest GPA who took the hardest classes to be valedictorian. Although as a former valedictorian, I think doing away with the whole designation makes more sense. If they want to do honors, just designate GPA cut-offs and group students that way, as many colleges do.

While I can understand to some degree the white parents wanting the handbook policy followed, did they not stop and think about what they were fundamentally asking for and what message they were sending? To make their children, who took easier classes, be given the honors over students who took more challenging classes? And the parent who said they had been actively tracking this since middle school? Please, get a life and let your child live theirs.

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33 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Ok. So there’s a proposal that’s being debated and recommendations that are being/have been revised. That’s an example of systems working, no? Criticisms occurred, plans were changed, input is still happening. Exactly what’s the problem? Nothing has been finalized yet. It’s sausage making in progress. What’s your alternative, mandates without guidance/input or no guidance at all? What would you prefer to see happen?

Yes. With thousands of comments, serious debates, multiple rewrites and loads of controversy, it passed. Unfortunately, everything the Jewish community addressed seems to be coming true. 

"A half dozen members of the advisory group behind the first draft have joined others to create their own organization, the Liberated Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum Coalition, to promote what they consider the purer version of ethnic studies to school districts in California." 

And this was removed from the final draft:

“Engaging topics on race, class, gender, oppression, etc., may evoke feelings of vulnerability, uneasiness, sadness, guilt, helplessness, or discomfort, for students not previously exposed to explicit conversations about these topics.”  - and this is for grades 9-12

 

Quote

 

The board’s adoption of the model curriculum will not end the disagreements. If anything, they will intensify on a local level. It will now be left to individual school districts to decide how to approach sensitive, potentially controversial issues. Districts that had been hoping for a complete, state-prescribed package of lesson plans will be disappointed.

California’s model curriculum is not a full curriculum — just guidelines that lay out goals and principles of ethnic studies, suggested lesson plans and instructional approaches and a list of ethnic studies courses already meeting UC and CSU course credit requirements, with a bibliography to come. Districts can pick and choose whatever they want. Newsom is proposing $5 million in the 2021-22 state budget to help prepare teachers to teach the subject.

A half dozen members of the advisory group behind the first draft have joined others to create their own organization, the Liberated Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum Coalition, to promote what they consider the purer version of ethnic studies to school districts in California. With the support of United Teachers Los Angeles, they’re calling on Los Angeles Unified to revise its decade-old ethnic studies curriculum, which Bay Area teacher Meyers and others view as a more inclusive, less contentious approach to the subject.

https://edsource.org/2021/a-final-vote-after-many-rewrites-for-californias-controversial-ethnic-studies-curriculum/651338

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

what Rev. Sharpton calls latte liberals. I don’t agree with those people either. I’m definitely to their right. I just don’t think Seattle is representative of where most of America is or what’s happening in most of America (having lived there and many other places) and I don’t think it’s right or fair for extremes to define the terms of debate/discussion. By that measure, I could conjure up any number of really offensive racist activities, incidents, and assignments in schools, not just from the last five years, that demonstrate an absolute need for intervention. I find most training outfits kinda fly by night and a waste of professional development dollars, separate and apart from this issue. We’re not gonna get from a place where the blind are leasing the blind without removing the blinders tho.

Looping back to this to say that I heavily associate clunky CRT *with the latte liberals*.  

Latte liberals love to “do the work” and they love to lecture working class people of all racial backgrounds using language from academic and activist contexts that most people don’t understand.  They make it about individual actions rather than fixing systemic problems.  It’s the same approach to fighting racism that they use “to fight” climate change.  Drive their $50k electric vehicle to Whole Foods and use $10 reusable bags and $40 water bottles they keep losing so they have to rebuy them.  

A group of Seattle latte liberals who either didn’t want to pay private school tuition or didn’t have students getting accepted to Lakeside or whatever and didn’t want their kids bussed anywhere got themselves together and pushed the school district to open them a pretty small high school in a part of town that didn’t really need a new high school.  The high school they opened is ALL IN on critical theory.  My friend lived nearby sent her son who is on the spectrum there.  It was appealing because besides being close to their apartment, it was small and after being homeschooled K-8, a small high school seemed better than a big one.  At an assembly he inadvertently got himself labelled a racist by all of his peers because, in a loud assembly people were asked to stand if they agreed with this that or the other statements and he sat in the back, he didn’t hear well and wasn’t comfortable standing even if he had understood when to sit and when to stand.  The school itself is a product of systemic racism- the same parents who got it founded also got racial tiebreakers for school placement eliminated which drastically worsened segregation in Seattle schools.  But let’s have a series of assemblies with a pricey trainer to talk about power and oppression (completely ignoring that some of the content may not be accessible for all students) rather than allocate the full resources in this school district equitably.  My friend had to transfer her son elsewhere.  

It’s all about analyzing if Rosa Parks is the right kind of civil rights leader to name a school after (that is not hyperbolic though I seriously wish it were) rather than getting shit done to fix the real problems.  

We can say Seattle and SF and wherever are outliers but bullshit ideas I heard several or more years ago in Seattle do seem to have gained momentum and spread.  And why not?  Latte liberalism is a fantastic way for people to reassure themselves that they can be anti-racist all while not changing anything about their lives except ordering the right books and hammering the right signs into the lawns of their totally unaffordable neighborhoods.  People like easy.  So easy ideas do gain momentum.  

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32 minutes ago, Plum said:

The Jewish community is concerned about CA's AB-101 ethnic studies curriculum and requirements legislation I posted up thread. It's an example of how an entire group is against this curriculum and for valid reasons. The public school system and states may have good intentions but their follow-through is always a trainwreck and this isn't something that should be screwed up. 

 

 

SANTA CRUZ, California (Press Release) – More than a thousand Californians, including nearly 70 rabbis, today petitioned the California Legislative Jewish Caucus to oppose AB 101, a bill to make ethnic studies courses a high school graduation requirement. The California Assembly is likely to debate AB 101 next week.

Although AB 101 recommends that school districts use the Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum (ESMC) recently approved by the California State Board of Education, it allows for the use of any curriculum approved by local school boards, including the rejected antisemitic and anti-Zionist first-draft of ESMC. The first draft was opposed by 20,000 Californians, the vast majority of Jewish organizations, and the Jewish Caucus, which stated clearly that it would “marginalize Jewish students and fuel hatred and discrimination against the Jewish community.” Governor Gavin Newsom promised the original curriculum “would never see the light of day.”

Dear Members of the California Legislative Jewish Caucus,

Although there is still considerable disagreement in the Jewish community about the Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum (ESMC) recently approved by the State Board of Education, both in terms of its specific content and its Critical Ethnic Studies framework, that is not our primary concern now. Rather, we are profoundly alarmed that while AB 101 recommends school districts use the SBE-approved ESMC in developing courses that would fulfill the graduation requirement, it also allows the use of any curriculum “approved by the governing board of the school district,” even the inflammatory and overtly antisemitic first draft of the ESMC. For reasons that will be explained below, we believe that if AB 101 becomes law, many if not most school districts in the state will choose to adopt the discredited first ESMC draft — or an even more extreme version of it — in implementing the law, thereby forcing all public and charter high school students to take a course that will incite tremendous ethnic and racial division, bigotry and harm, especially for Jewish students.

If AB 101 becomes law, hundreds of districts will have to quickly decide which ethnic studies curriculum to adopt as the basis for the new requirement, and although the bill encourages adoption of the SBE-approved ESMC, we believe that many, if not most, districts will prefer the highly problematic “liberated” curriculum because of the overwhelming endorsement of the antisemitic first draft of the ESMC by teachers unions and the higher education community, as well as the successful efforts of those promoting the “liberated” curriculum to create pathways for teacher training and professional development using a Critical Ethnic Studies framework.

Despite claims that AB 101 contains safeguards to prevent ethnic studies courses from promoting “bias, bigotry and discrimination,” such language is simply a restatement of a statute in the CA Education Code that has been on the books for decades. And as we have seen from highly politicized ethnic studies classes taught at the college level, these so-called guardrails will do nothing to prevent a curriculum based in Critical Ethnic Studies — whether approved by the SBE or promoted by the Liberated group — from portraying Jews and Israel in anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist ways, and inciting animus and harm towards Jewish students.

Given that the Jewish community does not have the bandwidth to oppose the adoption of the antisemitic “liberated” curriculum in each of the hundreds of school districts where it is likely to be considered if AB 101 becomes law, we urge you to take the lead once again in opposing this dangerous bill. The safety and well-being of our children and our community depends on it.

 

AMCHA Director Tammi Rossman-Benjamin recently testified before the California Assembly Education Committee in opposition to AB 101, and AMCHA submitted a formal and comprehensive position letter to the committee. The letter details how and why any curriculum rooted in Critical Ethnic Studies can easily become a vehicle for inciting division and hate, including antisemitism, since the discipline portrays Jewish Americans as racially privileged oppressors and Israel as a white supremacist apartheid state. AMCHA also points out that the rejected curriculum and the state-approved model curriculum stand in stark contrast to what legislators intended when they approved the bill mandating the development of the curriculum, which calls for a non-political, multicultural approach to ethnic studies that would prepare students in one of the most ethnically diverse states in the nation “to be global citizens with an appreciation for the contributions of multiple cultures.”

https://www.sdjewishworld.com/2021/05/20/advocates-petition-against-california-ethnic-studies-bill/

I realize that they claimed to represent the "Jewish community" but there is no monolithic group that constitutes the "Jewish community." There are many interesting discussions that can be had about the "white-ness" of Jews in America. Plenty of scholars are looking into this and having these discussions. 

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4 minutes ago, Plum said:

Yes. With thousands of comments, serious debates, multiple rewrites and loads of controversy, it passed. Unfortunately, everything the Jewish community addressed seems to be coming true. 

"A half dozen members of the advisory group behind the first draft have joined others to create their own organization, the Liberated Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum Coalition, to promote what they consider the purer version of ethnic studies to school districts in California." 

And this was removed from the final draft:

“Engaging topics on race, class, gender, oppression, etc., may evoke feelings of vulnerability, uneasiness, sadness, guilt, helplessness, or discomfort, for students not previously exposed to explicit conversations about these topics.” 

 

 

I'm not Jewish but please just stop with the "Jewish community" thing. It actually lends  credence to @Sneezyone's responses to you. It says so much about where you're coming from. I don't mean that sound offensive even though I know it does. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I realize that they claimed to represent the "Jewish community" but there is no monolithic group that constitutes the "Jewish community." There are many interesting discussions that can be had about the "white-ness" of Jews in America. Plenty of scholars are looking into this and having these discussions. 

Holy crap! The California Legislative Jewish Caucus isn't enough? 70 Rabbis? And I'm not even going to address how racist questioning the "white-ness" of Jews in America sounds. 🤮

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1 minute ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I'm not Jewish but please just stop with the "Jewish community" thing. It actually lends  credence to @Sneezyone's responses to you. It says so much about where you're coming from. I don't mean that sound offensive even though I know it does. 

 

Yeah sorry I don't speak woke. 

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What Nevada’s growing Jewish community loves about living Jewishly in the desert

https://www.timesofisrael.com/what-nevadas-growing-jewish-community-loves-about-living-jewishly-in-the-desert/

This rabbi wants Jewish community involved in battles for social justice

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/this-rabbi-wants-jewish-community-involved-in-battles-for-social-justice-670738

Shall I go on? 

 

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2 hours ago, HeartString said:

Wow.  This is horrendous.  We need an investigation, both on the individual level of these appraisers and lenders involved here and on a large scale check on the industry.  The link indicates an HUD investigation into the complaint, but that seems insufficient.

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1 hour ago, Danae said:

And why is it that black families are less likely to have a biological father in the home?  Might historical patterns of racial disparities in policing and sentencing have a lot to do with it?  You can’t say it’s not racism because it correlates with this other thing without asking how the other thing is affected by racism.

Some sociologists attribute it to the way 1970s welfare policy was structured to disallow payments and services to families with men in the home.  

When my parents were struggling and applied for food stamps in the early 80s, my mom was told, to her face by the social worker, to kick my dad out the front door and let him in the back door. 

Welfare policy is a valid part of a multi-factor examination of why this has come to pass but it’s one that is generally taboo on the left to discuss.  Poor families of all races tend to be more likely to be headed by single parents.  The book “Promises I Can Keep” explores why women living in poverty choose to have babies when they aren’t married or in stable long term partnerships.  It’s written from a progressive perspective and is very well done.  Another factor is the shifting of our economy so that there are fewer jobs that can support a family which do not require a college degree.  Criminal justice issues are also important to consider.  

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3 minutes ago, Condessa said:

Wow.  This is horrendous.  We need an investigation, both on the individual level of these appraisers and lenders involved here and on a large scale check on the industry.  The link indicates an HUD investigation into the complaint, but that seems insufficient.

I’m 99% sure that absolutely nothing will happen. This is one of a half dozen or more stories exactly like that appraisal story that I’ve heard in the last 3 months or so.  Excuses will be made, “but we aren’t racist” magic words will be said and the story will fade.  

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12 minutes ago, Plum said:

Yes. With thousands of comments, serious debates, multiple rewrites and loads of controversy, it passed. Unfortunately, everything the Jewish community addressed seems to be coming true. 

"A half dozen members of the advisory group behind the first draft have joined others to create their own organization, the Liberated Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum Coalition, to promote what they consider the purer version of ethnic studies to school districts in California." 

And this was removed from the final draft:

“Engaging topics on race, class, gender, oppression, etc., may evoke feelings of vulnerability, uneasiness, sadness, guilt, helplessness, or discomfort, for students not previously exposed to explicit conversations about these topics.”  - and this is for grades 9-12

 

 

Isn’t that how policy SHOULD be made? Again, what part of that democratic process is offensive to you and how would you like it to change?

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Just now, Plum said:

Holy crap! The California Legislative Jewish Caucus isn't enough? 70 Rabbis? And I'm not even going to address how racist questioning the "white-ness" of Jews in America sounds. 🤮

Alright let's do this. 

There is no monolithic Jewish community where all Jewish people agree on everything. There just isn't. It doesn't matter how many rabbis signed it. There are rabbis who disagree. It's anti-semitic to suggest that all Jewish people agree about everything. What's the next step here? Who's Jewish enough? I know how that goes. The group that agrees with us is the right kind of Jewish. 

Here's a tweet from another Jewish rabbi. 

 

What "Jewish community?" 

Why do you immediately assume it's racist to suggest that Jewish people (and this is a very diverse group, BTW) aren't white? 

How Jews Became White Folks and What That Says about Race in America

There are all kinds of discussions that can be had about race in America and how ethnic groups were incorporated into "white-ness." 

How the Irish Became White

You are reacting to something without actually understanding the complex history of race in this country. You're googling and finding sources online that agree with you. I'm sure the "Jewish community" link felt like a win. The way that you're going about this actually proves that you don't understand. 

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Just now, Sneezyone said:

Isn’t that how policy SHOULD be made? Again, what part of that democratic process is offensive to you and how would you like it to change?

I thought you were questioning who else besides a few moms in Cupertino is opposed to these studies? The democratic process isn't offensive to me. I'm saying they had legit fears and were ignored. 

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Guess what. I didn't say they ALL agree on anything. They wrote that letter. They got together and signed it. I'm just reporting what they said. I barely made my own commentary. I also don't think all Christians or Catholics or X agree on everything. 

3 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

There is no monolithic Jewish community where all Jewish people agree on everything. There just isn't. It doesn't matter how many rabbis signed it. There are rabbis who disagree. It's anti-semitic to suggest that all Jewish people agree about everything. What's the next step here? Who's Jewish enough? I know how that goes. The group that agrees with us is the right kind of Jewish. 

 

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Just now, Plum said:

Guess what. I didn't say they ALL agree on anything. They wrote that letter. They got together and signed it. I'm just reporting what they said. I barely made my own commentary. I also don't think all Christians or Catholics or X agree on everything. 

 

You used the term "Jewish community" twice and represented it as a concern of all Jewish people. 

Finding gotcha links online doesn't indicate that you're actually listening to people. 

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2 hours ago, HeartString said:

(Edit)Gun permits are acceptable ID but not tribal cards.  Make that make sense. 

Okay, I was confused because I was off searching for anything referencing NRA IDs with voting, but I see you edited this.

So in this article concerning North Dakota, government IDs for voting purposes have to include residence address or be accompanied by supplemental documentation of residence or documentation obtained from their county 911 coordinator to show residence for homeless and others who don’t have other documentation for whatever reason.  Tribal ID was accepted, but residents who hadn’t yet obtained the newer tribal IDs which had addresses on them had to bring the additional paperwork.  I don’t really see why a government ID that meets the requirements shouldn’t be acceptable, whether or not it is related to gun ownership.  https://www.npr.org/2018/10/13/657125819/many-native-ids-wont-be-accepted-at-north-dakota-polling-places 

Showing residence in the state where one is voting doesn’t seem like an extremely far-out measure in a bill intended to reinforce voter confidence in the system to prevent voting fraud.  But it really seems like the state government should have done more to help with rushing the new ID turnover once everyone knew the bill wasn’t going to be overturned.  Even if everyone knew about the bill for years beforehand, the fact that it only went through weeks before the general election seems to put a greater burden on the state government to assist tribal governments with the strain on their systems.

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2 hours ago, stripe said:

I don’t know about NRA cards, but gun permits are allowed in Texas but not state university student IDs.

Here is an article explaining why IDs can be hard for some people to obtain. It sites over 600,000 registered voters in Texas alone who don’t have the required ID. It also says 11% of Americans have no photo ID.

As a Texas voter I find this a bit ridiculous about photo ID.  You do not need a photo ID to vote, since you get a non-photo ID card that is color coded to the election cycle in the mail that is perfectly acceptable voting id.  I’ve used it myself, several times.  You just need to keep your address updated (which isn’t overburdensome since your address is what is used to determine eligibility to vote in certain elections) and most people do it when they change address at the post office.

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