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Mom in Va. who lived through Cultural Revolution addresses school board regarding Critical Race Theory


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I was just listening to a local talk radio show while getting dinner organized.  A mom of an 8th grade middle school student (public school) used her cell phone to make a video of a lesson presented in her child's science class (remote learning).   She contacted both the principal and the teacher, and apparently these types of lessons are presented in a variety of subject areas at school.      

The video is just over 7 minutes long.

https://mynorthwest.com/2937573/rantz-teacher-uses-science-class-to-call-white-middle-schoolers-privileged-oppressors/

 

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22 minutes ago, Laurie said:

I was just listening to a local talk radio show while getting dinner organized.  A mom of an 8th grade middle school student (public school) used her cell phone to make a video of a lesson presented in her child's science class (remote learning).   She contacted both the principal and the teacher, and apparently these types of lessons are presented in a variety of subject areas at school.      

The video is just over 7 minutes long.

https://mynorthwest.com/2937573/rantz-teacher-uses-science-class-to-call-white-middle-schoolers-privileged-oppressors/

 

I watched the video. 

First, oppression was not even mentioned other than as a title on one of the Powerpoints. The exercise was about privileges. No one was labeled an oppressor. 

One of the questions the students had to answer was whether they experienced oppression. But again, no one was labeled an oppressor. No privilege was connected with oppression. 

It sounded like the parent who was taping the video was offended from the beginning. She made a few comments during the video. 

This is a little clunky and looks a little silly to me but it does not demonize any student or group. 

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23 minutes ago, Laurie said:

I was just listening to a local talk radio show while getting dinner organized.  A mom of an 8th grade middle school student (public school) used her cell phone to make a video of a lesson presented in her child's science class (remote learning).   She contacted both the principal and the teacher, and apparently these types of lessons are presented in a variety of subject areas at school.      

The video is just over 7 minutes long.

https://mynorthwest.com/2937573/rantz-teacher-uses-science-class-to-call-white-middle-schoolers-privileged-oppressors/

 

From the link:

Barrett ended the email with a reasonable request: “I would like to know HOW this fits into your science curriculum and when and how many other lessons like this you plan to teach this school year.”

 

The school responded to the mom

The school’s principal, Myra Arnone, set up a phone call to discuss Barrett’s concerns.

“She explained that this kind of teaching is now being incorporated into all subjects at the teacher’s ‘professional discretion,'” Barrett explained to the Jason Rantz Show on KTTH. “If the teacher feels that there is something along the racial, social justice, LGBTQIA+, equity/diversity, et cetera – they can incorporate that however they want into their lesson plans.”

So it's whatever the teacher wants it to be, taught however the teacher wants to teach it, no matter what the actual subject is? As I said before too much wiggle room. There is no place for this in K-12 setting. They need to stick to academics.

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So people are mad about this odd race stuff and are calling it critical race theory so it sounds fancy, with no regard to what critical race theory actually is or whether or not this racial teaching fits in with it? 
 

ETA:this makes conversation almost impossible because we’re meaning several different things at the same time and everyone is talking past each other. 

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4 minutes ago, Plum said:

That's the same problem these schools seem to be having with teaching it. It's all over the map but I'm seeing the same themes. You are either privileged or an oppressor based on where you land on the wheel of power. 

What are kids supposed to get out of this?

 

It kind of seems like the dark side of having college kids take classes from different departments to be “well rounded”. A bunch of teachers took the sociology class for a humanities requirement and now they think they can teach complex theories.  I have a major in sociology and barely feel qualified to talk on a message board about it.  It really is one of those subjects where the more you learn the more you realize how much more there is to learn.  A lesson it seems like these teachers might have missed in the intro class.  

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30 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I watched the video. 

First, oppression was not even mentioned other than as a title on one of the Powerpoints. The exercise was about privileges. No one was labeled an oppressor. 

One of the questions the students had to answer was whether they experienced oppression. But again, no one was labeled an oppressor. No privilege was connected with oppression. 

It sounded like the parent who was taping the video was offended from the beginning. She made a few comments during the video. 

This is a little clunky and looks a little silly to me but it does not demonize any student or group. 

I also watched the video as I know the station is going to write the headline for clicks.  I agree with you that the teacher didn’t label any specific student an oppressor which the headline implied but I disagree that nothing in the video is problematic.  The teacher’s vagueness left it to students to make some conclusions of their own.  Without guidance I can seen students drawing some clunky conclusions from a clunky lesson.  Also, the word oppression is very much part of the assignment questions- it’s question number 2 on the worksheet shown at the end.  

I note that this mother has an 8th grade autistic daughter.  As it happens, I have 2 autistic kids in that very school district.  I can see how younger students and those who are prone very literal thinking might see privilege and power equalling oppressor.  What does “dismantle” mean the the student?  

I have a mix of kids who I help with school and I’ve seen a mix of reactions from students about how these topics are being addressed in local schools.  Two of the children whose education I have been actively involved in are my niece and nephew, who are brown and poor.  I’ve seen my nephew especially struggle with some of the meh ways intersectionality and identity issues are addressed at his school (different district but  more content in this direction).  Feeling like you have to share this information in a group setting can also be very hard, even hurtful especially when you are a kid living on the margins.  Being asked to address your trauma in the context of a classroom or training when you have been seriously traumatized is a really shitty experience (and I speak from personal experience on that).  

There are high quality ways to address inequality in schools and teach students about a wide range of challenging topics.  I’m not sure that this is one of them. I’m not going to tell the school that my kid can’t be a part of these lessons but I also won’t let the simplistic presentation go unaddressed when my younger son sees materials like this.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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24 minutes ago, HeartString said:

So people are mad about this odd race stuff and are calling it critical race theory so it sounds fancy, with no regard to what critical race theory actually is or whether or not this racial teaching fits in with it? 
 

ETA:this makes conversation almost impossible because we’re meaning several different things at the same time and everyone is talking past each other. 

No, CRT is a theoretical framework.  The name CRT comes from the people who have advanced it in academic and activist circles, not from people who are mad about it.  Some things probably get folded into that umbrella but it’s not a fancy name applied only by its detractors.  

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2 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

 Feeling like you have to share this information in a group setting can also be very hard, even hurtful especially when you are a kid living on the margins.  Being asked to address your trauma in the context of a classroom or training when you have been seriously traumatized is a really shitty experience (and I speak from personal experience on that).  

I feel like English classes used to be bad about that, maybe still are.  School should not be therapy and history/English class are not group therapy sessions.  Is this a weird thing they’re learning in teacher college? 

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3 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

No, CRT is an theoretical framework.  The name CRT comes from the people who have advanced it in academic and activist circles, not from people who are mad about it.  Somethings probably get folded into that umbrella but it’s not a fancy name applied only by its detractors.  

Is this poor teaching actually an example of CRT though?  Would an academic teaching in the sociology department of a university recognize this as under that umbrella?  

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1 minute ago, HeartString said:

I feel like English classes used to be bad about that, maybe still are.  School should not be therapy and history/English class are not group therapy sessions.  Is this a weird thing they’re learning in teacher college? 

It’s being pushed heavily in this district.  The teachers are going to professional trainings and then tasked with interpreting and integrating it into the classes here.  My family happens to be in this district (not this school tho!)

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24 minutes ago, HeartString said:

Is this poor teaching actually an example of CRT though?  Would an academic teaching in the sociology department of a university recognize this as under that umbrella?  

I have encountered similar wheels in CRT training materials.  

This is an interesting podcast episode about DEI training based on CRT: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.listennotes.com/podcasts/blocked-and-reported/bonus-episode-what-a-stupid--YD5jer1Zx7/amp/

Having worked in this Seattle non-profit sector for the better part of 20 years (they don’t name the theater in the episode but I guessed which company it was pretty quickly- Seattle is a small town in a lot of ways), I’ve seen a wide range of these types of trainings.       Some bad, some good.  Most mediocre.  Some super invasive and hurtful...to the very populations that the trainings are supposed to empower. One of the silver linings of self employment is I can read whatever books I want and go to whatever lectures, readings or seminars I like on social issues on my own time and I am never going to have to give away workdays to workshops of dubious quality and value ever again.  

 

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26 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

I also watched the video as I know the station is going to write the headline for clicks.  I agree with you that the teacher didn’t label any specific student an oppressor which the headline implied but I disagree that nothing in the video is problematic.  The teacher’s vagueness left it to students to make some conclusions of their own.  Without guidance I can seen students drawing some clunky conclusions from a clunky lesson.  Also, the word oppression is very much part of the assignment questions- it’s question number 2 on the worksheet shown at the end.  

I note that this mother has an 8th grade autistic daughter.  As it happens, I have 2 autistic kids in that very school district.  I can see how younger students and those who are prone very literal thinking might see privilege and power equalling oppressor.  What does “dismantle” mean the the student?  

I have a mix of kids who I help with school and I’ve seen a mix of reactions from students about how these topics are being addressed in local schools.  Two of the children whose education I have been actively involved in are my niece and nephew, who are brown and poor.  I’ve seen my nephew especially struggle with some of the meh ways intersectionality and identity issues are addressed at his school (different district but  more content in this direction).  Feeling like you have to share this information in a group setting can also be very hard, even hurtful especially when you are a kid living on the margins.  Being asked to address your trauma in the context of a classroom or training when you have been seriously traumatized is a really shitty experience (and I speak from personal experience on that).  

There are high quality ways to address inequality in schools and teach students about a wide range of challenging topics.  I’m not sure that this is one of them. I’m not going to tell the school that my kid can’t be a part of these lessons but I also won’t let the simplistic presentation go unaddressed when my younger son sees materials like this.  

I agree that it's clunky and I see what you mean about the risk of a student misunderstanding. It looks like a mediocre curriculum. 

But one of the reasons that we can't have nice things is that there is such resistance to attempts to discuss this. 

For example, I've read some valid criticisms of the 1619 project but those are lost in the over the top culture war response to it. 

 

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53 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I agree that it's clunky and I see what you mean about the risk of a student misunderstanding. It looks like a mediocre curriculum. 

But one of the reasons that we can't have nice things is that there is such resistance to attempts to discuss this. 

For example, I've read some valid criticisms of the 1619 project but those are lost in the over the top culture war response to it. 

 

Honestly, speaking very much from and of the American left, I see the culture war over the top responses coming from both sides.  One side calls you a Marxist baby eater if you aren’t in lockstep agreement with them.  The other side shouts that you a white supremacist Nazi if you aren’t lockstep with them.  It’s exhausting and totally unproductive.  A lot of it on both sides is performative and more about signaling to the world that they are in the right group than it is about actually helping realize their values and positively impact the world.  I can no longer pass the purity test on the left but it’s not like I was ever gonna pass the right’s purity test so I’m just SOL.  I’m not even close to politically moderate either so I’m just kinda politically homeless in a way. I just don’t agree wholesale with what either side seems to be shilling these days.  I live in Seattle so it’s possible that the left is just dialing it up to 1000 here but it’s intense.  

On this board we used to discuss statements of faith that some homeschooling groups would want people to agree to in order to participate.  Lately in left spaces, I have felt it was clear that you are not welcome if you won’t basically agree 100% to their ideological beliefs.  It feels like a restrictive statement of faith in many ways.  When it feels that way at school or work, it affects people’s ability to exercise their right to a public education or to meet their family’s needs.  

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58 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

Honestly, speaking very much from and of the American left, I see the culture war over the top responses coming from both sides.  One side calls you a Marxist baby eater if you aren’t in lockstep agreement with them.  The other side shouts that you a white supremacist Nazi if you aren’t lockstep with them.  It’s exhausting and totally unproductive.  A lot of it on both sides is performative and more about signaling to the world that they are in the right group than it is about actually helping realize their values and positively impact the world.  I can no longer pass the purity test on the left but it’s not like I was ever gonna pass the right’s purity test so I’m just SOL.  I’m not even close to politically moderate either so I’m just kinda politically homeless in a way. I just don’t agree wholesale with what either side seems to be shilling these days.  I live in Seattle so it’s possible that the left is just dialing it up to 1000 here but it’s intense.  

On this board we used to discuss statements of faith that some homeschooling groups would want people to agree to in order to participate.  Lately in left spaces, I have felt it was clear that you are not welcome if you won’t basically agree 100% to their ideological beliefs.  It feels like a restrictive statement of faith in many ways.  When it feels that way at school or work, it affects people’s ability to exercise their right to a public education or to meet their family’s needs.  

My parents moved from Oklahoma to Portland, OR about 7 years ago and it's pushing my mother to the right. My parents are loyal Democrats and never voted for a Republican in their lives. My mother keeps up with the local news, reads the local paper, etc. and she gets so fed up with Portland. 

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1 hour ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

My parents moved from Oklahoma to Portland, OR about 7 years ago and it's pushing my mother to the right. My parents are loyal Democrats and never voted for a Republican in their lives. My mother keeps up with the local news, reads the local paper, etc. and she gets so fed up with Portland. 

I have lived in or adjacent to Seattle for 36 years excepting a  year in Kentucky, part of a year in Orlando and then a little time in another part of the state for a bit of college.  If I were someone with shallowly held beliefs, I think I would be penning shrill “how I left the left” essays right about now.  But I am authentically committed to mostly very liberal positions so whatever is going on, while very frustrating, isn’t enough to entirely unroot myself.  I don’t like how I see people dehumanize anyone who disagrees with them.  This isn’t exclusive to the left (hello, QAnon et al!) but it’s not a non-factor on the left like a lot of my friends like to believe.  I also have lived outside of the city limits for the last 8 years *and I doubt I will ever move back* if for no other reason than I never want to have to sit through another endorsement meeting for Seattle City Council or even have to cast a ballot for Seattle mayor.  (It also doesn’t help that right now laws that were put into place to protect poor and homeless people are making it impossible for me to protect my dad from a shameless grifter who keeps swindling most of his social security check- classic case of unintended consequences of well intentioned but badly implemented policies.)

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3 hours ago, LucyStoner said:

Honestly, speaking very much from and of the American left, I see the culture war over the top responses coming from both sides.  One side calls you a Marxist baby eater if you aren’t in lockstep agreement with them.  The other side shouts that you a white supremacist Nazi if you aren’t lockstep with them.  It’s exhausting and totally unproductive.  A lot of it on both sides is performative and more about signaling to the world that they are in the right group than it is about actually helping realize their values and positively impact the world.  I can no longer pass the purity test on the left but it’s not like I was ever gonna pass the right’s purity test so I’m just SOL.  I’m not even close to politically moderate either so I’m just kinda politically homeless in a way. I just don’t agree wholesale with what either side seems to be shilling these days.  I live in Seattle so it’s possible that the left is just dialing it up to 1000 here but it’s intense.  

On this board we used to discuss statements of faith that some homeschooling groups would want people to agree to in order to participate.  Lately in left spaces, I have felt it was clear that you are not welcome if you won’t basically agree 100% to their ideological beliefs.  It feels like a restrictive statement of faith in many ways.  When it feels that way at school or work, it affects people’s ability to exercise their right to a public education or to meet their family’s needs.  

I agree that there are problems in the Left, especially the online Left. I often see what appears to be kind of immature reflexive response. Liberals are certainly capable of falling for fake news and conspiracy theories. I think that part of the reason for this are not many outlets for expressing leftism offline. There is no leftist party in the USA. There are very few unions. Unions and left-wing parties are the normal path for leftists in other countries. 

There's also the problem that most progressives/leftists/whatever you call them are really only interested in left-wing social issues, not socialism. That's understandable given that most of were raised to see socialism as anathema. 

Where are the leftist intellectuals? There are intellectuals on the left and left-wing magazines but they seem to be very niche. They used to be left-wing intellectuals and books that magazines that everyone read. 

So I think we're left with an unfocused left-wing. It's often reactionary. It's very fractured. There are many new 'converts' to the left after the Trump years and the George Floyd killing. They are like many new converts, overly enthusiastic, ignorant, and driven by emotions and feelings. 

I think this makes it almost impossible to discuss things like CRT on the left. It's complicated and how do you discuss complicated things on Twitter or TikTok? 

The criticisms of things like CRT from the right-wing are often dishonest and cynical so the left-wing responds to the weak argument and no one ever addresses anything more serious. 

For example, we seem to be unable in the USA to discuss transgenderism. There's a so much about what's going on that makes people uncomfortable. But when you see how the issue is used in such a cynical way by some of the right, it makes it difficult to discuss it which would require allowing for different opinions. 

CRT is another good example. I actually don't have an opinion yet about CRT but I know there are people using fear mongering tactics to advance an agenda. The anti-CRT bills are absurd, especially coming from people who advocate for local control over education. 

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1 hour ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I agree that there are problems in the Left, especially the online Left. I often see what appears to be kind of immature reflexive response. Liberals are certainly capable of falling for fake news and conspiracy theories. I think that part of the reason for this are not many outlets for expressing leftism offline. There is no leftist party in the USA. There are very few unions. Unions and left-wing parties are the normal path for leftists in other countries. 

There's also the problem that most progressives/leftists/whatever you call them are really only interested in left-wing social issues, not socialism. That's understandable given that most of were raised to see socialism as anathema. 

Where are the leftist intellectuals? There are intellectuals on the left and left-wing magazines but they seem to be very niche. They used to be left-wing intellectuals and books that magazines that everyone read. 

So I think we're left with an unfocused left-wing. It's often reactionary. It's very fractured. There are many new 'converts' to the left after the Trump years and the George Floyd killing. They are like many new converts, overly enthusiastic, ignorant, and driven by emotions and feelings. 

I think this makes it almost impossible to discuss things like CRT on the left. It's complicated and how do you discuss complicated things on Twitter or TikTok? 

The criticisms of things like CRT from the right-wing are often dishonest and cynical so the left-wing responds to the weak argument and no one ever addresses anything more serious. 

For example, we seem to be unable in the USA to discuss transgenderism. There's a so much about what's going on that makes people uncomfortable. But when you see how the issue is used in such a cynical way by some of the right, it makes it difficult to discuss it which would require allowing for different opinions. 

CRT is another good example. I actually don't have an opinion yet about CRT but I know there are people using fear mongering tactics to advance an agenda. The anti-CRT bills are absurd, especially coming from people who advocate for local control over education. 

Nm thought better of it. 

 

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Question for those who are very familiar with what CRT actually is:

With all the uncertainty back and forth here about what CRT entails, I was searching for a source with specifics and found this article with specific information on an educator training course on white supremacy.  It seems to fit with what the general public thinks of as CRT.  Is this what is meant by CRT? (as applied to education as it is now by both supporters and opponents of it, vs. its original narrower definition regarding the law). If this is not CRT, can you explain the distinction?
 

https://nypost.com/2019/05/20/richard-carranza-held-doe-white-supremacy-culture-training/

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10 hours ago, TechWife said:

I’ve circled back to this piece from the American Bar Association a few times. It’s been helpful to me as I attempt to wrap my brain around this idea that has become so controversial.

"While recognizing the evolving and malleable nature of CRT, scholar Khiara Bridges outlines a few key tenets of CRT, including:

  • Recognition that race is not biologically real but is socially constructed and socially significant. It recognizes that science (as demonstrated in the Human Genome Project) refutes the idea of biological racial differences. According to scholars Richard Delgado and Jean Stefancic, race is the product of social thought and is not connected to biological reality.
  • CRT rejects claims of meritocracy or “colorblindness.” 

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/civil-rights-reimagining-policing/a-lesson-on-critical-race-theory/

 

TechWife, this is not directed at you, although if you have an answer, please speak up 😊

I found this link helpful, but I have a question about these 2 aspects of CRT that to me seem to be in conflict. How can race be a social construct that's not real, but colorblindness be a bad thing? If race isn't real, shouldn't we be colorblind?

I apologize if I'm being ignorant, but I'm trying to understand.

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8 minutes ago, Momto6inIN said:

TechWife, this is not directed at you, although if you have an answer, please speak up 😊

I found this link helpful, but I have a question about these 2 aspects of CRT that to me seem to be in conflict. How can race be a social construct that's not real, but colorblindness be a bad thing? If race isn't real, shouldn't we be colorblind?

I apologize if I'm being ignorant, but I'm trying to understand.

Something being a social construct doesn’t mean it’s not real.  Marriage is a social construct, but it would be ridiculous to say that we don’t “see” marriage.

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1 hour ago, Condessa said:

Question for those who are very familiar with what CRT actually is:

With all the uncertainty back and forth here about what CRT entails, I was searching for a source with specifics and found this article with specific information on an educator training course on white supremacy.  It seems to fit with what the general public thinks of as CRT.  Is this what is meant by CRT? (as applied to education as it is now by both supporters and opponents of it, vs. its original narrower definition regarding the law). If this is not CRT, can you explain the distinction?
 

https://nypost.com/2019/05/20/richard-carranza-held-doe-white-supremacy-culture-training/

Critical race theory posits that all social institutions, formal and informal, are racist, in the sense that they are created to favor one race, the race with the most power. The dominant more powerful race sets up and controls society, to favor them. The dominant race is privileged bc that is the way society is set up.

Also, as in one of the above replies, is the idea that CRT is fluid and evolving. So what is CRT today, might evolve, change, develop into something else tomorrow.

*What the general public thinks CRT is* paraphrasing what you said...it’s funny bc the academics who have developed the theory can say...”oh, that’s not it. It’s evolved. It’s fluid.” So when there is pushback from the public about how people are responding to how CRT is presented to them, the answer can be: “that’s not CRT” or “your pushback is bc you are favored and received privilege as the dominant race”

 

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34 minutes ago, Momto6inIN said:

TechWife, this is not directed at you, although if you have an answer, please speak up 😊

I found this link helpful, but I have a question about these 2 aspects of CRT that to me seem to be in conflict. How can race be a social construct that's not real, but colorblindness be a bad thing? If race isn't real, shouldn't we be colorblind?

I apologize if I'm being ignorant, but I'm trying to understand.

This one puzzled me for a bit, too! The meritocracy and color blindness go together. If I understand correctly, CRT sees the narrative that in the US, we are a meritocracy and everyone has equal opportunity to succeed in any scenario  regardless of the color of their skin as a false narrative. This is because our history has shown this to be false and because there are past and present barriers to success that are present for black and brown people that aren’t present or have a disproportionate impact. One example that I learned about recently is that houses in a predominantly black or brown neighborhood appraise and sell for lower amounts than a comparable house in a predominantly white neighborhood in the same city. This impacts not only physical mobility, but also the ability to build personal and generational wealth as houses are the largest investment that the majority of people will make in our country. This practice is neither colorblind nor based on merit. Another example is in the criminal justice system where white people receive shorter sentences and lower fines for the same criminal convictions with the same characteristics than people of color receive. This is neither color blind nor based on the merits of the case at hand. In addition to impacting wealth, this has a destabilizing effect on families and the wider community and  psychosocial  consequences as well.

I’ve been reading  about the history of race in the US over the past five years or so and I still feel like I’m in kindergarten with the subject. The history is both deep and wide and has so very many implications. 

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20 minutes ago, TechWife said:

This one puzzled me for a bit, too! The meritocracy and color blindness go together. If I understand correctly, CRT sees the narrative that in the US, we are a meritocracy and everyone has equal opportunity to succeed in any scenario  regardless of the color of their skin as a false narrative. This is because our history has shown this to be false and because there are past and present barriers to success that are present for black and brown people that aren’t present or have a disproportionate impact. One example that I learned about recently is that houses in a predominantly black or brown neighborhood appraise and sell for lower amounts than a comparable house in a predominantly white neighborhood in the same city. This impacts not only physical mobility, but also the ability to build personal and generational wealth as houses are the largest investment that the majority of people will make in our country. This practice is neither colorblind nor based on merit. Another example is in the criminal justice system where white people receive shorter sentences and lower fines for the same criminal convictions with the same characteristics than people of color receive. This is neither color blind nor based on the merits of the case at hand. In addition to impacting wealth, this has a destabilizing effect on families and the wider community and  psychosocial  consequences as well.

I’ve been reading  about the history of race in the US over the past five years or so and I still feel like I’m in kindergarten with the subject. The history is both deep and wide and has so very many implications. 

This is very much how I understand it. It’s not necessarily about individual people being racist but about the structural road blocks put up for black and brown people that most white peoples are just blissfully unaware of.  

Edited by HeartString
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Someone wanted a specific example. 

This popped up tonight.

https://www.fairforall.org/profiles-in-courage/dwight-englewood-whistleblower/

A lot of info (elite school, I believe, mostly white?)

Humanist teacher resigns over CRT-style initiatives dominating the curriculum/impacting on students. 

No idea about who she is/don't vouch for her particularly/no I can't guarantee she isn't an evil Conservative plant. She is white. 

On a quick browse, I find myself unbothered by some things, more bothered by others. The site is somewhat  overwrought. 

Reading the DEI details for this school,. two things struck me. Firstly, the massive amount of resources going into this - made me wonder what's being neglected, because in education as elsewhere, resources are finite. 

Secondly, affinity groups. I do wonder about white-only groups, and how they may inadvertently promote a white racialized identity. I wouldn't particularly want to be in a white affinity group, and I wouldn't want to group white staff or students in that way.

 

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20 hours ago, HeartString said:

What Fox News says is “critical race theory” is not at all what I learned about in my sociology classes (sociology major).  We learned that race is a social construct.  It comes from the study of law and the way “racism is built into and reproduced through institutions that organize every day life, particularly the law”.  Seems a rather sensible thing to study and an odd thing to be mad about today, since it’s been around since the 70s.  It’s not even specifically about people being racist, it’s more about ways that systems are set up in a way that negatively impacts POC, often inadvertently but sometime purposefully.   That just plain doesn’t feel controversial.  

Right. It should not be controversial to say that institutions can have racist impacts, and that some of those were not bugs, but features, at least at the time of their creation. 

I mean, if we can acknowledge that jim crow laws were racist, we are admitting that laws can have racial bias. 

19 hours ago, Laurie said:

My understanding is that you have to begin by first understanding what is meant by Critical Theory.  

I found a course description from a Philosophy department about Marx and Critical Theory.  https://www.amherst.edu/academiclife/departments/courses/1314S/PHIL/PHIL-366-1314S

I think this is why crt in the classroom is concerning to conservative parents...because marxism is at the core.  

 

No. Marxism is not at the core of critical race theory anymore than marxism is at the core of critical text theory. 

15 hours ago, Plum said:

 

 

i think the bolded at the end is the most important thing I’ve read so far. We’re trusting educators and administrators to be able to teach this without making one side a victim and one side an oppressor. I think that’s asking too much. I do not believe they can possibly have a firm grasp of what and how to teach a concept like this in K-12. 

What is the alternative? To not acknowledge racial bias in our courts, banking systems, etc? Pretend they don't exist? Do we skip over Jim Crow laws because that would be teaching about racist laws, which would be part of critical race theory? Do we not explain how redlining influenced generational wealth differences between different races? Do we not teach segregation even, because that would again be an institutional form of racism? Or is it okay to teach that institutions and legal systems can be racist, but only up to a certain point in history - and only if we make sure not let on that the effects are still felt today?

I mean, if we don't teach these things....how do we teach at all?

15 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

A specific criticism re poor quality pedagogy which claims to be based on CRT ( again, a valid set of academic theories re race/law):

That some programs taught in schools under a CRT umbrella 'label some identities as inherently problematic, and assign perjorative moral values to said identities.'

There is a middle path here - defend, absolutely, the rights of scholars to develop theory around the intersection of race and power AND defend the right of all child-students to be seen, taught and valued as individuals, regardless of race or other characteristics. 

 

Does anyone have actual links to actual programs that actually do the bolded? 

15 hours ago, Scarlett said:

So it is as I first thought.....all of this screaming about CRT taking away rights and making children hate themselves for being white has nothing to do with what CRT actually is.

 

Truth

14 hours ago, Fritz said:

The factual history of our country about slavery, Tulsa, segregation, Jim Crow, etc.. .yes absolutely should be taught. This was taught when I was in school. 

 

What makes teaching about laws with racial bias in the distant past okay, but teaching about ones that are more recent not okay? And are we not to discuss how those laws impact our current population?

 

11 hours ago, Condessa said:

From the above linked local news article on the law suit:

“Under the ambassador program, schools select a handful of students who meet with principals and other school leaders to discuss [incidents of racist behavior in their school communities], while the reporting system urges students to anonymously report observations using a form online.”

So...okay...schools are encouraging racism to be reported and discussed? Isn't that good?

11 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I watched the video. 

First, oppression was not even mentioned other than as a title on one of the Powerpoints. The exercise was about privileges. No one was labeled an oppressor. 

One of the questions the students had to answer was whether they experienced oppression. But again, no one was labeled an oppressor. No privilege was connected with oppression. 

It sounded like the parent who was taping the video was offended from the beginning. She made a few comments during the video. 

This is a little clunky and looks a little silly to me but it does not demonize any student or group. 

Exactly.

 

10 hours ago, Plum said:

Actually, my post downthread is a better example. This took up a lot of space. I kept the link in case you are interested in another K-2 lesson plan. 

Connection to anti-bias education
Challenge the Text places an anti-bias lens on the literacy experience. Students generate and respond to critical questions, raising issues related to power within the social contexts of race, class, gender, sexual orientation, etc. This method gives voice to marginalized perspectives and alternative readings of dominant texts, embedding critical literacy practices into the Perspectives curriculum. 

https://www.learningforjustice.org/classroom-resources/teaching-strategies/responding-to-the-readaloud-text/challenge-the-text

 

Sounds like good reading skills that people need even more with current multitude of "news" sources. 

10 hours ago, Plum said:

 
Why?
As noted in the Common Core, critical literacy means more than identifying words, enjoying illustrations and following story lines. Children need to be critical consumers of  media and able to identify stereotypes or biased representations of groups. Cracking the Code provides practice identifying both overt and covert messages.
 
How?
Select a central text and a variety of print and television advertisements. Ideally, select ads for products with which your students will be familiar and those that illustrate the strategy well.

<insert a lot of Common Core + CRT type questions>

Connection to anti-bias education
Discussions about bias and stereotype are critical to anti-bias education. Cracking the Code helps students critically examine representation in texts and encourages them to assess the messages being transmitted in those representations.

https://www.learningforjustice.org/classroom-resources/teaching-strategies/responding-to-the-readaloud-text/cracking-the-code

 

 

Again, how is this a bad thing?

8 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

My parents moved from Oklahoma to Portland, OR about 7 years ago and it's pushing my mother to the right. My parents are loyal Democrats and never voted for a Republican in their lives. My mother keeps up with the local news, reads the local paper, etc. and she gets so fed up with Portland. 

To b fair, I'm pretty bleeding heart left and would be annoyed by Portland. But hipsters ruined everything, lol. 

5 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I agree that there are problems in the Left, especially the online Left. I often see what appears to be kind of immature reflexive response. Liberals are certainly capable of falling for fake news and conspiracy theories. I think that part of the reason for this are not many outlets for expressing leftism offline. There is no leftist party in the USA. There are very few unions. Unions and left-wing parties are the normal path for leftists in other countries. 

There's also the problem that most progressives/leftists/whatever you call them are really only interested in left-wing social issues, not socialism. That's understandable given that most of were raised to see socialism as anathema. 

Where are the leftist intellectuals? There are intellectuals on the left and left-wing magazines but they seem to be very niche. They used to be left-wing intellectuals and books that magazines that everyone read. 

So I think we're left with an unfocused left-wing. It's often reactionary. It's very fractured. There are many new 'converts' to the left after the Trump years and the George Floyd killing. They are like many new converts, overly enthusiastic, ignorant, and driven by emotions and feelings. 

I think this makes it almost impossible to discuss things like CRT on the left. It's complicated and how do you discuss complicated things on Twitter or TikTok? 

The criticisms of things like CRT from the right-wing are often dishonest and cynical so the left-wing responds to the weak argument and no one ever addresses anything more serious. 

For example, we seem to be unable in the USA to discuss transgenderism. There's a so much about what's going on that makes people uncomfortable. But when you see how the issue is used in such a cynical way by some of the right, it makes it difficult to discuss it which would require allowing for different opinions. 

CRT is another good example. I actually don't have an opinion yet about CRT but I know there are people using fear mongering tactics to advance an agenda. The anti-CRT bills are absurd, especially coming from people who advocate for local control over education. 

Very interesting! And yes, as a progressive it is hard to find decent media sources. Especially as a progressive Christian. 

1 hour ago, Momto6inIN said:

TechWife, this is not directed at you, although if you have an answer, please speak up 😊

I found this link helpful, but I have a question about these 2 aspects of CRT that to me seem to be in conflict. How can race be a social construct that's not real, but colorblindness be a bad thing? If race isn't real, shouldn't we be colorblind?

I apologize if I'm being ignorant, but I'm trying to understand.

If someone has experienced limited opportunities due to the social construct of race, it is silly to ignore those and pretend they don't exist out of an idea of color blindness. 

An analogy is if you were to pretend not to see disability.....and therefore didn't install ramps in a public space, because you don't see wheelchairs, just people. Treating people in a wheelchair the same as everyone else sounds noble until they are stuck at the bottom of the stairs. You have to acknowledge their lack of access before you can address it. 

11 minutes ago, HeartString said:

This is very much how I understand it. It’s it necessarily about individual people being racist but about the structural road blocks put up for black and brown people that most white peoples are just blissfully unaware of.  

yes. 

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FYI heard on the news that my state has banned CRT from classrooms....what the heck that means in actuality is that anything mentioning racism can likely be objected to and banned. 

Once again, glad I homeschool. 

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34 minutes ago, Plum said:

 

half of the kids in that district are proficient in math and reading and they should focus on that.

 

Well, the above is what I was wondering, really re resources. Getting half your student cohort up to speed on literacy and numeracy is a massive task. Much time/effort needed. If the time/effort is going to DEI initiatives in a very comprehensive way, is it also going to core academic  skills? Maybe yes ( in well- resources places), maybe no in others. 

Literacy is such a key to good life outcomes, I'd probably just invest everything in that. 

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I think it's a bit - silly? - to posit two choices - either pro banning CRT style trainings and for colorblindness OR waving the banner for all things CRT in schools because of racism. 

I'm not pro banning, not pro colorblind, believe racism is a persistent social ill that needs to be remedied in a multitude of ways, is just as happy teaching Shakespeare through a Marxist lens as teaching Harjo through literary analysis, and still have qualms about the way in which some school districts appear to be going about CRT-style education.

It's a bit like if I decided my school was henceforth going to deliver the curriculum through the lens of radical feminism. Parents might have a basic sympathy with the goal of sex equality, but they might be very unhappy when I emphasis the victimhood of girls and the...non-victimhood... of boys during English Lit. They may have some questions when Math class emphasizes the hetero patriarchal basis of study. 

And frankly, they'd have a point. Like CRT, radical feminism is just one theoretical lens for looking at the world, and a school should really be broadening a students exposure to.many different ways of thinking, not just presenting a dominant strand. 

In the end, it's a philosophical difference about the role of school. Is school a place primarily concerned with consciousness raising? I'd argue private schools certainly have the right to market themselves that way. Public schools really need to be welcoming to a wide range of student, staff and parent perspectives. 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Plum said:

What I’ve seen is CRT is supposed to be a lens to teach history, not the lens. I’m not against teaching history and where we came from. As some educators that fully understand  CRT have said, what the school districts and states are doing is a bastardization of CRT. Talking about past racism and current racism is history. It’s uncomfortable but necessary to know our past.

However, to force students to point to each other and themselves as victims and oppressors, as privileged and marginalized is not history, it’s social engineering: Any act that influences a person to take an action that may or may not be in their best interest.

The examples I gave were just that, examples. Upthread someone asked if it was being taught in ps and what the lesson plans would look like. Obviously as a K-2 lesson plan it can look benign. I didn’t look at the approved books they use for the lessons so there is that. 

So, if a teacher teaches that institutional racism made it harder for black veterans to secure a college education than for white veterans, that's history, and is okay. But if the teacher points out a current situation, where people of one color are favored, that is not okay? Because if it is okay to say that, for instance, people of color are treated less favorably in the court system, and the person has eyes and can see what color they are, that could be called making them feel like a victim. But...if you don't teach it, is that promoting ignorance? 

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7 minutes ago, Plum said:

I think you are missing the part where they actually do have to confess their identities to their classmates and their position in the “Wheel of Power and Privilege.” I’d say it’s better to teach history and let students draw their own conclusions. 
 

I stand by my first post and initial thought. 
“I will go out on a limb and say when ps picks up something they go way overboard to the point of losing the original intent. <Insert latest education reform or fad here>“

In a particular classroom that was done. But all aspects of CRT, including that institutional racism exists or has ever existed, are being banned. My entire state has done so. 

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re suitability/feasibility of critical theory (applied to literature or economics or role of race in our history or any other content area) in K-12 settings

14 hours ago, Danae said:

I would not expect to see actual Critical Race Theory taught in most K-12 settings for the same reason we don’t teach Bayesian analysis or quantum mechanics in k-12.  The kids don’t have the prerequisites.  Which means attempts are going to end up teaching the vocabulary of CRT which people will proceed to misuse.

I feel the same way about most critical thinking curriculum, including that popular with homeschoolers.  They teach the jargon of critical thinking without actually requiring anyone to think critically.

This.  WTM itself outlines a pedagogical/developmental sequence: first master reading/writing, then amass a knowledge of historical EVENTS; only then *begin* to develop reasoning tools to parse the implication of those EVENTS through a process of reasoning and evaluation.

Suggesting that middle/high school students should, indeed, learn about events like (forex) the Tulsa Race Massacre... even though some parents might be more comfortable eliding over some of the uglier events of our true history. But the idea that most middle school kids can actually use analytical methods that hang on both a broad body of history they do not yet have, and also the application of reasoning tools that take years to develop.

Otherwise it's just feelz and inanity:

13 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

Anybody who will, with an apparently straight face, assert that people have to "choose" between being "victims" or "victors" has utterly lost the plot.

 

re weaponization of "CRT" as a label

12 hours ago, HeartString said:

So people are mad about this odd race stuff and are calling it critical race theory so it sounds fancy, with no regard to what critical race theory actually is or whether or not this racial teaching fits in with it?

ETA:this makes conversation almost impossible because we’re meaning several different things at the same time and everyone is talking past each other. 

 

11 hours ago, LucyStoner said:

No, CRT is a theoretical framework.  The name CRT comes from the people who have advanced it in academic and activist circles, not from people who are mad about it.  Some things probably get folded into that umbrella but it’s not a fancy name applied only by its detractors.  

I see this push-pull a bit differently. Yes, critical theory (generally) and critical race theory specifically really are theoretical frameworks with longstanding and deep analytical roots.

Also: yes, over the last few years, and particularly since the 1619 Project was published, the term has become a coalescing rally call for opponents, a catchall term which is slapped onto any incident that is overly zealous or over-the-top or otherwise irritating, then instrumentalizing backlash against this strawman for outrage/mobilization/fundraising to the point where (as Sykes pointed out) former Heritage Foundation fellow/Fox regular/Trump whisperer Christopher Rufo crowed

https---bucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984_s3.amazonaws.com-public-images-ba3da54d-e304-4faa-981c-37ce447deb34_551x440.png.8d2223a5eda2c2a66908191fdcbe01b6.png

The goal is to have the public read something crazy in the newspaper and immediate think "CRT."

Well, all right then. 

 

 

re distinction between "race is a social construct" vs "colorblindness"

2 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

TechWife, this is not directed at you, although if you have an answer, please speak up 😊

I found this link helpful, but I have a question about these 2 aspects of CRT that to me seem to be in conflict. How can race be a social construct that's not real, but colorblindness be a bad thing? If race isn't real, shouldn't we be colorblind?

I apologize if I'm being ignorant, but I'm trying to understand.

Other pp have already spoken to this, but here is a specific example that helped me see the distinction here.  In the interval following Reconstruction, many states enacted legislation governing voter registration that included two provisions:

  1. Proof of payment of a poll tax; and
  2. Waiver of that poll tax for registrants whose grandfathers were eligible to vote

These provisions were, like all legislation, "constructed."  And on their face, both of provisions are also "colorblind." Race doesn't appear in the literal words of either provision. Yet in combination, the two provisions created a structure in which folks whose grandfathers were eligible -- white men -- could waive the tax; whereas folks whose grandfathers were ineligible -- black men -- faced a significant barrier  *  to registering to vote.

And crucially, once that structure was in place, all the actors within the structure simply carried on within it, independent of whether or not they "saw color," or whether or not there was individual "malice" in their individual "hearts."  Someone shows up whose (white) grandfather was eligible -- good to go, no tax owed!!  Someone (dares to) show up whose (enslaved) grandfather was ineligible -- that'll be $$$$$, do you have that? No? Sorry, rules are rules.

Insistence on "colorblindness" to evaluate the provisions renders their effect invisible. If all we look for are WORDS that specify race, and we refuse to look at the EFFECTS of the two provisions in tandem, as a structure that perpetuates over time... we render it invisible.

There are many other examples, but the easiest ones to see are often those at a distance. (Redlining, whose legacy effects on generational wealth continue to the present.)

 

 

 

( *    There were other barriers as well, in white robes wielding guns and razors and ropes, but for the purpose at hand we'll stick to legislative text.)

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23 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

So, if a teacher teaches that institutional racism made it harder for black veterans to secure a college education than for white veterans, that's history, and is okay. But if the teacher points out a current situation, where people of one color are favored, that is not okay? Because if it is okay to say that, for instance, people of color are treated less favorably in the court system, and the person has eyes and can see what color they are, that could be called making them feel like a victim. But...if you don't teach it, is that promoting ignorance? 

In my experience, the big problem is that sometimes these things are taught where blanket statements about issues today are made without showing any evidence to back it up, and anyone asking about evidence is indicated as the problem by the instructor.  
 

My dh had an employee diversity training week with this experience.  Maybe this was just a really inept instructor, and that was why she was unprepared with reasons to back up her statements.  But there is a distinction between teaching established fact and teaching a common but not universally accepted theory without backing it up, and implying anyone who questions your statements is a racist.

A basic tenet of CRT seems to be that systemic racism pervades all aspects of our society today, whether it is apparent or not.  And asking for proof of this beyond disproportionate outcomes (because correlation does not indicate causation) is a good way to get verbally jumped on.

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Here's a non CRT way in which the school I work in is NOT colorblind. 

We have a number of indigenous students. They face particular historical and current disadvantages. As well as classroom social studies incorporating indigenous stories, people and histories, these students regularly attend Time On Country with other indigenous kids in the district. There they engage in education with Indigenous mentors and leaders. Education is both cultural and academic, but recognizes and attempts to heal some very valid feelings of disengagement with school. Their needs are seen as distinct, as stemming from a history of racial violence and dispossession. 

Country time has been shown to improve family engagement at school. 

It's still recognising and dealing with a root problem - settlement has had this outcome for these families - and culturally accepted remedies are being provided at the level of school budget and administration. Increased family engagement tends to increase academic and social success - helping to ameliorate some of the disadvantage they may otherwise experience. 

Now, should the (minority) of white students at school also be getting hauled up in class to understand their privilege? I can't say that I see the utility. One of the white boys is neglected; another has significant family difficulties. More than one is adjusting to life with a life- changing illness. A few have a very white Anglo m/c family background - they are the kids most likely to already know about indigenous history.

Most students are from immigrant backgrounds. A few are refugees.

A CRT framing doesn't meet anyone's needs. 

Can I see it arriving, top down, from head office? Well, every UK and US educational fad eventually does. 

Is it ever going to a grass roots push from staff or families  because this is what the student body needs more than anything? No. 

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1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

 

It's still recognising and dealing with a root problem - settlement has had this outcome for these families - and culturally accepted remedies are being provided at the level of school budget and administration. Increased family engagement tends to increase academic and social success - helping to ameliorate some of the disadvantage they may otherwise experience. 

Now, should the (minority) of white students at school also be getting hauled up in class to understand their privilege? I can't say that I see the utility. One of the white boys is neglected; another has significant family difficulties. More than one is adjusting to life with a life- changing illness. A few have a very white Anglo m/c family background - they are the kids most likely to already know about indigenous history.

Most students are from immigrant backgrounds. A few are refugees.

A CRT framing doesn't meet anyone's needs. 

Can I see it arriving, top down, from head office? Well, every UK and US educational fad eventually does. 

Is it ever going to a grass roots push from staff or families  because this is what the student body needs more than anything? No. 

So, why are those kids who are white students told the indigenous students go to that program? Are they told it is to help ameliorate some of the disadvantage they may otherwise experience? If so, that's teaching CRT, right?

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Teaching diverse kids about "privilege" sounds so benign, but what they are really saying is that white kids have the privilege to not get unfairly beat up or shot by a white cop, whereas black kids don't have that privilege.  In other words, white cops have it in for black kids.  It's already all over the media, so now let's make it mandatory for kids in schools to learn and repeat this in order to meet academic requirements.  That's sure to improve community race relations.

Other versions:

  • White bankers have it in for black families.
  • White teachers don't want to see black kids succeed.
  • White doctors don't care about black people's health.
  • etc.

As a fairly intelligent and mature adult, of course I understand the differences between structural racial impacts and "white people having it in for black people."  But when I was a school kid?  The average school kid?  The range of school kids?  Let's be honest with ourselves.

With the money they are spending on these programs, they could fix some of those structural problems now rather than hope that our questionably educated kids grow up and fix them.

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*I’m so sure* some will correct me, LOL

but I do have to question how posters are saying there is no connection between CRT and Marxism.

Marxism led to critical theory which led to CRT?

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/critical-theory/

Critical Theory has a narrow and a broad meaning in philosophy and in the history of the social sciences. “Critical Theory” in the narrow sense designates several generations of German philosophers and social theorists in the Western European Marxist tradition known as the Frankfurt School. According to these theorists, a “critical” theory may be distinguished from a “traditional” theory according to a specific practical purpose: a theory is critical to the extent that it seeks human “emancipation from slavery”, acts as a “liberating … influence”, and works “to create a world which satisfies the needs and powers of” human beings (Horkheimer 1972b [1992, 246]). Because such theories aim to explain and transform all the circumstances that enslave human beings, many “critical theories” in the broader sense have been developed. They have emerged in connection with the many social movements that identify varied dimensions of the domination of human beings in modern societies. In both the broad and the narrow senses, however, a critical theory provides the descriptive and normative bases for social inquiry aimed at decreasing domination and increasing freedom in all their forms.”

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3 minutes ago, pinball said:

*I’m so sure* some will correct me, LOL

but I do have to question how posters are saying there is no connection between CRT and Marxism.

Marxism led to critical theory which led to CRT?

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/critical-theory/

Critical Theory has a narrow and a broad meaning in philosophy and in the history of the social sciences. “Critical Theory” in the narrow sense designates several generations of German philosophers and social theorists in the Western European Marxist tradition known as the Frankfurt School. According to these theorists, a “critical” theory may be distinguished from a “traditional” theory according to a specific practical purpose: a theory is critical to the extent that it seeks human “emancipation from slavery”, acts as a “liberating … influence”, and works “to create a world which satisfies the needs and powers of” human beings (Horkheimer 1972b [1992, 246]). Because such theories aim to explain and transform all the circumstances that enslave human beings, many “critical theories” in the broader sense have been developed. They have emerged in connection with the many social movements that identify varied dimensions of the domination of human beings in modern societies. In both the broad and the narrow senses, however, a critical theory provides the descriptive and normative bases for social inquiry aimed at decreasing domination and increasing freedom in all their forms.”

Yes, I think there is a connection from what I have read over the past couple of years, which I’m too tired to think about right now and find links. 
I think Marxist gets conflated with “communist” and there is some confusion there. I think clear parallels with Marxism can be seen in CRT ideology which seems at its core to depend on a lens of oppressors vs. oppressed. 

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Racism led to slavery led to black codes/Jim Crow led to mass incarceration and redlining led to massive wealth inequality so... BAN WEALTH INEQUALITY! Makes perfect sense...no? This is stoopid.

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7 minutes ago, pinball said:

a critical theory provides the descriptive and normative bases for social inquiry aimed at decreasing domination and increasing freedom in all their forms.”

How can increasing freedom be something the "Land of the Free!" is against?

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27 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Suddenly aiming to decrease domination and increase freedom is recast as "Marxism."

Oh brother! 👌

Bill

Black Lives Matter and Marxism:

https://www.socialistalternative.org/marxism-fight-black-freedom/black-lives-matter-marxism/

"Overthrowing capitalism cannot end all aspects of racism overnight, but it can do away with the exploitation that lays the basis for class society’s divide-and-rule approach. There is no other road. Black liberation can only be won through the socialist transformation of society."

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1 minute ago, Plum said:

 should graduation standards remain held high but provide an equal opportunity for all students to reach their potential? Which sounds more like "Land of the Free"? 

This is not currently possible. to pretend otherwise is to ignore reality. 

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This is so crazy to me. I am a BLM supporter. OBV. I am not, nor have I ever been, a Marxist. I don’t support nationalizing resources and state control of the means of production (socialism).

Folks are up and arms that their precious might be discomfited by challenging ideas/nuance and can’t be bothered to give a damn about the kids who have to learn to deal with those realities day in and day out without any help beyond their families and communities. It’s probably comfy to be unaware of the hoops others have to jump through to make you happy, secure in your status. I wouldn’t know.

Is analysis of history’s impact on modern life well done everywhere, no, because we have a population of teachers who are as ill-informed as anyone here, however well-meaning. We have people in this thread positing that our laws have no racially biased elements in them. That’s (kindly) ignorance of the highest order, an indication of just how woefully pathetic the education adults in this country received, and how much work still needs to be done. 

Is it wrong to make the attempt to lift the covers, no. Initial attempts may/will be clumsy. It’s STILL, IMO, worth the effort so people aren’t silently smacking their coworkers upside the head 50 years from now.

If your panties are twisted about this, imagine how hard other parents have worked to disabuse their children of the racist messages routinely delivered to their children for at least a hundred years, to undo the damage schools have done? TAKE A NUMBER, GET IN LINE.

If you’re basing your assessment of schools wrestling with these issues on Seattle White people who LOVE to speak for (not to) minorities or Loudin County (that loves to pretend it’s normal and middle class), or Tulsa (that clearly can’t distinguish shit from shinola where right/wrong is concerned), ok. But step back and look at the bigger picture. What are you saying? Reporting abuse, assault, bias, in schools is wrong? Children should be discouraged from doing that? Children can’t handle seeing that they may, in fact, benefit from unearned privilege? No, YOUR children can’t handle it. Mine have been confronted with both their privileges/advantages and their disadvantages from the beginning, not as an excuse but as a lens.

The military has a series of anonymous reporting systems both for sexual violence and racism/bias/abuse/command climate. The degree to which they’re effective is related to the degree to which they’re promoted and trusted and seen to be working/making a difference. Should those be banned b/c someone’s feelings are bruised? These people are fresh out of high school too. Are their psyches so fragile? And, if so, what does that say about their preparation for life? WHO prepared them?

On the one hand, people are upset that schools are wading into these waters b/c that’s the family’s job. On the other hand, leaving it only to families has been a complete disaster. Majority parents have been silent. They have said NOTHING and look where we are. Wealthy kids/adults are aligning with white supremacist groups. People believing lie upon lie, misrepresentation upon misrepresentation, who are threatening the lives of election administrators and other citizens.
 

I’m sorry, I’ve said this before, but I don’t trust majority people to get this at all, let alone get it right. Their kids might actually learn to acknowledge their legacy and birthright, to accept the same foundational bits of info., and acknowledge that things need to change (with some intention and support) but who wants anything to change when they’re perfectly happy/comfy? The whole thing makes me want to give up.
 

 

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14 minutes ago, Plum said:

If we are looking to change things for the better is it not better to focus on ensuring everyone has a quality education? Wouldn't that elevate us all? 

There's quite a few successful inner city schools that ensure their students reach their full potential. It can be done. 

And they don't do that by ignoring the obstacles facing their students. My sister is a principal, to say that all her students have an equal opportunity to succeed is false. Some come to school hungry. Some are sick and dealing with chronic illness. MANY are homeless. Many deal with alcoholic or drug addicted parents. Race plays into how likely a student falls into one of those categories. 

Providing extra resources for them, such as food, housing, extra tutoring, etc helps even things out. And college admissions officers can take into account that their grades may not reflect their true abilities. 

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39 minutes ago, Laurie said:

 

Black Lives Matter and Marxism:

https://www.socialistalternative.org/marxism-fight-black-freedom/black-lives-matter-marxism/

"Overthrowing capitalism cannot end all aspects of racism overnight, but it can do away with the exploitation that lays the basis for class society’s divide-and-rule approach. There is no other road. Black liberation can only be won through the socialist transformation of society."

You are cherry picking something written and posted by a particular political group not BLM. This is one person's opinion and view with the backing of this particular organization.  Which is not BLM.  Not sure what you think you've proven with this link.  

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29 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Wealthy kids/adults are aligning with white supremacist groups. 

Are they aligning with white supremacy in large numbers?  I was under the impression that white supremacy had been on a gradual decline since the civil rights era, but was receiving a lot more attention now because of certain public figures and because of social movements that cast a light on it, but I’d appreciate more information if I need correcting.

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10 minutes ago, Condessa said:

Are they aligning with white supremacy in large numbers?  I was under the impression that white supremacy had been on a gradual decline since the civil rights era, but was receiving a lot more attention now because of certain public figures and because of social movements that cast a light on it, but I’d appreciate more information if I need correcting.

White supremacist movements are absolutely NOT in decline. Their prominence is cyclical and they are on an upswing as they were in the 90s. I think people assume the absence of violence is peace but the tension has been building for the last 10-15 years. The FBI reports that the greatest domestic terror threat comes from this sector. I will see if I can find the FBI links again. Again, it’s not that I think attempts to address the challenges can’t be clunky but that the effort is necessary, not sufficient.

These are the links to the two most recent: https://www.dhs.gov/ntas/advisory/national-terrorism-advisory-system-bulletin-january-27-2021

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2021/05/14/dhs-issues-national-terrorism-advisory-system-ntas-bulletin

 

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2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

White supremacist movements are absolutely NOT in decline. Their prominence is cyclical and they are on an upswing as they were in the 90s. I think people assume the absence of violence is peace but the tension has been building for the last 10-15 years. The FBI reports that the greatest domestic terror threat comes from this sector. I will see if I can find the FBI links again. Again, it’s not that I think attempts to address the challenges can’t be clunky but that the effort is necessary, nor sufficient.

Thank you.

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3 minutes ago, Plum said:

Example:

A 3rd grade MATH class at R.I. Meyerholz Elementary School in Cupertino, CA asked it's students to rank themselves according to their power and privilege. (there is that wheel again) Here is a slide from the lesson. Those example paragraphs are just depressing either way and have nothing to do with MATH. 

social-identity-slidedeck-p7-normal.gif?

 

Aside from the fact that this is a bizarre assignment for a MATH class, it also seems to be at a ridiculously high expectation level for a third grader. 

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