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Mom in Va. who lived through Cultural Revolution addresses school board regarding Critical Race Theory


Fritz
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4 minutes ago, Fritz said:

How's the defunding working out so far in those cities that have implemented it?

 

A few years ago, the WSJ had a feature article about a successful program in Eugene, Oregon that uses mental health experts as first responders, rather than police, in some instances. It’s my understanding that some other cities are looking to do something similar.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-mental-health-experts-not-police-are-the-first-responders-1543071600

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47 minutes ago, Fritz said:

How's the defunding working out so far in those cities that have implemented it?

 


not well afaik

 

Camden nj apparently has more policing, (not actually defunded but disbanded and restarted differently as article below explains)  and is still dangerous in comparison to other places in nj, though less dangerous than it had been 

https://progressive.org/latest/camden-didnt-defund-police-department-kalet-200630/

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1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

"Defund the police" generally means to put more money into social services, mental health, and training vs tactical weapons. That's the stuff that helps with addiction problems. 

And the current political party sure as crap doesn't endorse open borders. 

As for why one group focuses on one issue, why do ANY groups focus on one issue? Why don't Mothers Against Drunk Driving focus on lead poisoning? 

I think there would be a lot of support for funding mental health and addiction support services. Homeless and property crime would decrease significantly if we could get mental health and social services under control.  Ideally the police should be able to focus solely on crime and not social services and mental health. 

Calling that Defund the Police is more like calling MADD Defund Automobiles. We have many uses for both police and automobiles. Just because they are used improperly doesn’t mean we should eliminate them. 

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5 minutes ago, Plum said:

I think there would be a lot of support for funding mental health and addiction support services. Homeless and property crime would decrease significantly if we could get mental health and social services under control.  Ideally the police should be able to focus solely on crime and not social services and mental health. 

Calling that Defund the Police is more like calling MADD Defund Automobiles. We have many uses for both police and automobiles. Just because they are used improperly doesn’t mean we should eliminate them. 

I do think that the slogan is tremendously unhelpful. 

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Defund is a crappy slogan (if we find ourselves having to *explain* a *slogan*, then it’s not doing its job well).  

And anyone who thinks the be all and end all answer is more social services and more “mental health resources” doesn’t have enough experience actually accessing those resources (or trying to access those resources) to understand that they are every bit as marred by systemic issues as the police.  Social services have been absolutely *awful* to the most marginalized members of my family and CPS was full on weaponized against my sibling by his abusive ex husband- the CPS workers flat out didn’t care about the history of DV and they sided with the person who looked the most middle class on paper (despite that person being an abusive AF functional alcoholic who has admitted to doing things like breaking down a three year olds door).  In another situation, CPS did nothing to help my niece and nephew when their abusive father was in the home but once it was just my SIL, they showed up for every thing and completely browbeat her.  In researching this I learned that there is evidence that CPS appears more likely to steer clear of cases where there’s someone in the home that poses a risk to them (the abusive dad) but to become very picky when the HOH doesn’t pose a threat to them (my tiny SIL).   

A bunch of middle class 24 year olds doing their stint at the state to get their MSW paid for can in fact do a lot more harm than good.  The more marginalized someone is, the crappier they tend to get treated in social work and mental health spaces.  In general, the poor people I know don’t want social workers on their doorstep anymore than they want the cops.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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8 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

Social services have been absolutely *awful* to the most marginalized members of my family and CPS was full on weaponized against my sibling by his abusive ex husband- the CPS workers flat out didn’t care about the history of DV and they sided with the person who looked the most middle class on paper (despite that person being an abusive AF functional alcoholic who has admitted to doing things like breaking down a three year olds door).  

That's absolutely reprehensible 😕 . How in the world did this happen?? 

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13 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

That's absolutely reprehensible 😕 . How in the world did this happen?? 

15 years ago if asked for my opinion about CPS, I would have said underfunded people trying to do good work and I believed that if CPS was removing kids they had a good reason/it was the right call.  What I have observed in the last decade has shown me that sometimes, and not just rarely, they get it horribly, horribly wrong.  Often times the primary target in DV looks less stable on paper- my sibling’s situation isn’t a one off. 
 

It doesn’t help that in my state, CPS workers are in fact quite often just working there for long enough to get their grad school covered and then they bounce for better jobs.  Friends who are social workers and foster parents have told me this. This isn’t shocking - who would want to work for CPS when they could earn far more for the much safer job of private counseling or adoption home studies?  How newly graduated middle class people without kids are supposed to make the right calls in these nuanced and complex situations is beyond me.  Kids are more likely to end up in foster care if they are from poor or black and brown families.  A social worker wields a lot of power in these situations and power doesn’t always get used for good.  

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10 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

15 years ago if asked for my opinion about CPS, I would have said underfunded people trying to do good work and I believed that if CPS was removing kids they had a good reason/it was the right call.  What I have observed in the last decade has shown me that sometimes, and not just rarely, they get it horribly, horribly wrong.  Often times the primary target in DV looks less stable on paper- my sibling’s situation isn’t a one off. 
 

It doesn’t help that in my state, CPS workers are in fact quite often just working there for long enough to get their grad school covered and then they bounce for better jobs.  Friends who are social workers and foster parents have told me this. This isn’t shocking - who would want to work for CPS when they could earn far more for the much safer job of private counseling or adoption home studies?  How newly graduated middle class people without kids are supposed to make the right calls in these nuanced and complex situations is beyond me.  Kids are more likely to end up in foster care if they are from poor or black and brown families.  A social worker wields a lot of power in these situations and power doesn’t always get used for good.  

So enough money to hire and retain experienced people might be a good thing.

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24 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

And anyone who thinks the be all and end all answer is more social services and more “mental health resources”

Oh don’t get me wrong I don’t think the government is the end all be all. I’ve been watching what CA has been doing with their homeless. I’d much rather put my taxpayer dollars into efficient and supportive nonprofits than government. There needs to be multiple avenues for supporting the homeless and mentally ill aside from the police. 

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5 minutes ago, Danae said:

So enough money to hire and retain experienced people might be a good thing.

The same could be said of the police force.  Community policing that is shown to work costs more money and requires more personnel.  

And the bias that mostly middle class social workers bring to their jobs which results in women of color disproportionately losing their kids would not be erased by more money.  Acting like the police are the only biased system or that “social workers and mental health agencies” are an easy solution to the endemic issues communities face is nothing more than wishful thinking.    

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1 hour ago, Pen said:


not well afaik

 

Camden nj apparently has more policing, (not actually defunded but disbanded and restarted differently as article below explains)  and is still dangerous in comparison to other places in nj, though less dangerous than it had been 

https://progressive.org/latest/camden-didnt-defund-police-department-kalet-200630/

And I can find articles that would describe it as defunding and reworking so....🤷‍♀️

Adequate funding, additional training, proper training for the job to be done (whether that's policing, counseling, social work, whatever), checks on the system to avoid discrepancies in the treatment of poor/brown/black people, community involvement (that seems to be a big part of things in Camden) - all seem like things that could help. 

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2 hours ago, Frances said:

A few years ago, the WSJ had a feature article about a successful program in Eugene, Oregon that uses mental health experts as first responders, rather than police, in some instances. It’s my understanding that some other cities are looking to do something similar.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-mental-health-experts-not-police-are-the-first-responders-1543071600

Orlando now has a mental health first repsonder program as well. 

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28 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

15 years ago if asked for my opinion about CPS, I would have said underfunded people trying to do good work and I believed that if CPS was removing kids they had a good reason/it was the right call.  What I have observed in the last decade has shown me that sometimes, and not just rarely, they get it horribly, horribly wrong.  Often times the primary target in DV looks less stable on paper- my sibling’s situation isn’t a one off. 
 

It doesn’t help that in my state, CPS workers are in fact quite often just working there for long enough to get their grad school covered and then they bounce for better jobs.  Friends who are social workers and foster parents have told me this. This isn’t shocking - who would want to work for CPS when they could earn far more for the much safer job of private counseling or adoption home studies?  How newly graduated middle class people without kids are supposed to make the right calls in these nuanced and complex situations is beyond me.  Kids are more likely to end up in foster care if they are from poor or black and brown families.  A social worker wields a lot of power in these situations and power doesn’t always get used for good.  

I think this likely very true as well as the tendency to return children to white repeat drug offenders. It is maddening!

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1 hour ago, LucyStoner said:

The same could be said of the police force.  Community policing that is shown to work costs more money and requires more personnel.  

And the bias that mostly middle class social workers bring to their jobs which results in women of color disproportionately losing their kids would not be erased by more money.  Acting like the police are the only biased system or that “social workers and mental health agencies” are an easy solution to the endemic issues communities face is nothing more than wishful thinking.    

Yes, remember those children who were murdered by their adoptive parents who drove off the cliff? I read a lot of commentary about that when the story came out. It was terrible. Some of the children had family members who wanted to take them but CPS refused. 

I read about the how the adoptive parents tried to create an image that they were saviors of these disadvantaged, African American children. 

Much of the discussion at the time was about the biases against AA families and towards white, middle class people. 

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55 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Orlando now has a mental health first repsonder program as well. 

We have a program here that pairs diversion for mental health and poverty related low level crime with social service connections.  It’s a good program (I know people involved in running it personally). I’m not opposed to social services but it’s just a much more complicated landscape than “less policing, more mental health”

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4 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Yes, remember those children who were murdered by their adoptive parents who drove off the cliff? I read a lot of commentary about that when the story came out. It was terrible. Some of the children had family members who wanted to take them but CPS refused. 

I read about the how the adoptive parents tried to create an image that they were saviors of these disadvantaged, African American children. 

Much of the discussion at the time was about the biases against AA families and towards white, middle class people. 

The children’s aunt lost custody because she allowed the mom to visit them.  IIRC, those poor children had been removed for neglect and poverty related reasons- not abuse.  
 

Foster parent payments are much larger in my state than the amount of direct cash assistance moms receive on welfare.  Not always, but some of the time cash to the birth families would solve a lot of the issues that get kids removed when it comes right down to it.  The only times CPS ever escalated against my SIL were for poverty related things like not having utilities.  When I realized how hands off they had been when the abuser was still in the home, it angers me.  

There’s a big push to place with kin but I can’t help but think that that is not at least partly motivated by the lower cost to the state.  The payment to kinship foster placements in my state are about 1/6th of the payments to licensed foster parents.  

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1 hour ago, Fritz said:

I think this likely very true as well as the tendency to return children to white repeat drug offenders. It is maddening!

Yep, I have seen kids get returned who shouldn’t be and kids get taken out of the home when wraparound services to the family could strengthen and preserve the family. 

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1 hour ago, LucyStoner said:

15 years ago if asked for my opinion about CPS, I would have said underfunded people trying to do good work and I believed that if CPS was removing kids they had a good reason/it was the right call.  What I have observed in the last decade has shown me that sometimes, and not just rarely, they get it horribly, horribly wrong.  Often times the primary target in DV looks less stable on paper- my sibling’s situation isn’t a one off. 

You'd think a history of DV would make that easy, though... ugh. That sounds more than suboptimal 😕 . 

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12 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

You'd think a history of DV would make that easy, though... ugh. That sounds more than suboptimal 😕 . 

Abusers are very good at claiming that really, they are abused or the abused person is crazy.  

The same skills that allow abusers to groom their targets often allow them to groom and lie to other people, like social services.  In the wake of experiencing DV, people often appear to behave in irrational ways and may be in need of mental health services.  Accessing certain kinds of mental health services in a custody dispute though is a fantastic way to have one’s fitness as a parent successfully challenged.  

One of my sibling’s friends lost her kids in large part because she decided to go impatient for her mental health and that was used against her.  She has visitation and despite the documented history of DV, the primary aggressor has primary custody and decision making.  My sibling has managed to keep decision making and almost split parenting time but, informed by his friend’s experience, he’s probably gotten less medical care for his mental health needs than would be optimal.  

ETA:  Basically nothing about DV and custody disputes is easy.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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4 hours ago, Pen said:


not well afaik

 

Camden nj apparently has more policing, (not actually defunded but disbanded and restarted differently as article below explains)  and is still dangerous in comparison to other places in nj, though less dangerous than it had been 

https://progressive.org/latest/camden-didnt-defund-police-department-kalet-200630/

And that is something that is often done- in LA, when I lived there, a lot of the cities chose to contract with the Sheriff's dept.  

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1 hour ago, LucyStoner said:

We have a program here that pairs diversion for mental health and poverty related low level crime with social service connections.  It’s a good program (I know people involved in running it personally). I’m not opposed to social services but it’s just a much more complicated landscape than “less policing, more mental health”

And police can help too- we had a police officer killed in my city in late 2019.  One of the facts that came out about him was his devotion to the homeless- he even made a notebook with names, photos, etc,  in order to help other policeman learn about the homeless living in our city.  

My city has upped mental health training by a lot and has contracted for mental health responders.

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22 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

And police can help too- we had a police officer killed in my city in late 2019.  One of the facts that came out about him was his devotion to the homeless- he even made a notebook with names, photos, etc,  in order to help other policeman learn about the homeless living in our city.  

My city has upped mental health training by a lot and has contracted for mental health responders.

One of my high school classmates was just killed after 5 years on the police force when she stopped to help at the scene of an accident and was struck by another car.  Her job on the police force was centered around mental health.  

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  • 4 weeks later...

https://1776unites.com/essays/our-open-letter-to-public-school-boards/

Thank you for the vital leadership role you play in ensuring schools empower all of our students to acquire the core American virtues and knowledge essential for citizenship in our racially diverse, multi-ethnic and pluralistic democracy. A peaceful and prosperous American future must be built on a shared understanding of our past that is accurate and truthful, but also celebratory and aspirational.

The prevailing narrative of racial grievance has been corrupting the instruction of American history and the humanities for many decades, but has accelerated dangerously over the past year. The most damaging effects of such instruction fall on lower income minority children, who are implicitly told that they are helpless victims with no power or agency to shape their own futures.

Also concerning are the results from the National Center of Education Statistics’ 2018 National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP). Alarmingly, only 24 percent of eighth graders performed at or above NAEP Proficient standards for the Civics assessment and only 15 percent did so for the History assessment. These dismal achievements in gaining an understanding of democratic citizenship, government, historical facts and perspectives across time are low across all student backgrounds and virtually unchanged from the benchmarks established two decades ago.

We ask you, as stewards of public school systems around the country, to lead by example and embrace materials that will inspire the next generation, like those before them, to overcome challenges, achieve their goals, and live in a spirit of service to the common good.

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