Mom in Va. who lived through Cultural Revolution addresses school board regarding Critical Race Theory

[LucyStoner]

2 minutes ago, KSera said:

I see my kids, who absolutely loved Harry Potter and read their copies until they fell apart now saying Rowling is bad but they can’t remember why. I see that kind of thing. They read it all over social media and are dedicated to whatever idea is predominant in their group, but they don’t even know what that is based on. They just know without a doubt it’s true. I see some of the same dynamic with the people telling me it’s lucky I’m homeschooling so my kids aren’t exposed to all this “race stuff” in schools, but I don’t think most of them even know what that is or what is actually going on here on the ground in the schools.

I've definitely seen that.  My nieces were saying that and my brother made them back it up and examine what they were saying.  My older niece's main argument was "she's just stupid" and my brother was like, "try again".  

[Tanaqui]

It's really not Harry Potter's job to teach your kids critical thinking, nor to teach them to read for facts (JKR engages in transphobic speech and promotes transphobia) instead of feeling (she's just sorta bad and stupid).

[Sneezyone]

46 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

I've definitely seen that.  My nieces were saying that and my brother made them back it up and examine what they were saying.  My older niece's main argument was "she's just stupid" and my brother was like, "try again".  

This part. I find myself doing this all.the.time, even with ideas that I agree with b/c I know the person sharing the idea has no back up whatsoever. I feel very much like Sisyphus tho because all of the external information they're getting is that they are the ones being canceled. Their votes and ideas are the ones being discouraged/discounted. The American right is actively pouring fuel on their fire by giving them ammunition too. This wave of bans is not going unnoticed. I don't know what the landscape looks like in other English-speaking countries. I just know that my teens and their friends want no parts of what the PTB are doing right now and, if they have the chance, they will 'fix' it all--from climate policy, gun policy, and policing, to taxes and speech. They are not at all wedded to 'traditions' or 'norms' because they've witnessed them being shredded. We don't even live in a super partisan or lefty area. This just seems to be the zeitgeist of this generation of Americans. So, we can keep going down this road, slapping labels on music and movies, banning discussions of race and 'discomfort' but I really, really, don't think it's gonna end as the proponents of these measures expect.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Plum said:

Hold on, ensuring every high school graduate can read, write and do basic math is about equity, accessibility and inclusion? I thought it was called doing their job? This is what I meant upthread about lowering standards for equity of outcome vs equal opportunity. 

Oregon students shouldn’t have to prove they can write or do math to get a diploma, lawmakers decide

 

Way to change the subject.

[Sneezyone]

20 minutes ago, Plum said:

Hold on, ensuring every high school graduate can read, write and do basic math is about equity, accessibility and inclusion? I thought it was called doing their job? This is what I meant upthread about lowering standards for equity of outcome vs equal opportunity. 

Oregon students shouldn’t have to prove they can write or do math to get a diploma, lawmakers decide

 

Is it at all possible for you to link to something other than a clickbait headline? The other linked article from Oregon live, a REAL news story, explains in more depth. 

1. The reading requirement is new for 2021. When WA implemented this requirement, they TOO delayed it while students and kids got up to speed. I know b/c I worked for OSPI at the time.

2. Many students were hampered in their learning and remediation efforts by COVID distance and hybrid learning, including students with fewer financial resources and less supervision. EQUITY does not mean they don't get to graduate after completing all other requirements. EQUAL OPPORTUNITY would mean they weren't in that situation to begin with.

https://www.oregonlive.com/education/2011/08/thousands_of_oregon_students_a.html

What does this have to do with 'CRT'?

Your previous attempt to demonstrate that teachers are neglecting the basics (using TPT search data) was a fail, so now this?

Edited June 17, 2021 by Sneezyone

[whitestavern]

FAIR (Foundation Against Racism and Intolerance), who I've been following for a bit because I support their mission, seems to be against some of the CRT/whatever you want to call it teaching. https://www.fairforall.org/ 

[Pen]

20 minutes ago, Plum said:

Hold on, ensuring every high school graduate can read, write and do basic math is about equity, accessibility and inclusion? I thought it was called doing their job? This is what I meant upthread about lowering standards for equity of outcome vs equal opportunity. 

Oregon students shouldn’t have to prove they can write or do math to get a diploma, lawmakers decide

 

there are a lot of problems going on in Oregon education and I have “issues” with “cancel culture” and various things going on

 

However, eliminating the usual standardized testing requirements was a gain imo —

the usual std testing “prove yourself” is  incredibly stressful for many students and a poor way to test particularly writing ability in my opinion    
 

since the standardized testing typically came around April and after that the kids felt “done” for the year it also tended to be a waste of actual learning and instruction for April, May and the part of June we still have classes (this is the last week of school this year, but local snow days etc can change that year to year and place to place)... that’s like 1/3 of school year essentially lost to standardized testing
 

There were a tremendous number of negatives that came from Covid lockdowns, not having the last two to three months of the school year dominated by standardized testing was one of the benefits from my POV 

this year was the opposite here in that school reopened at least part time and those last 2-3 months were particularly productive rather than a typical standardized testing waste of time for at least most students   I guess there might be some students who get helped from standardized tests.
 

I think most good teachers are probably capable of assessing if a student can read, write, do math, without a standardized test.  Oregon diploma requires 3 years math algebra 1 level and above (usually Algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2); 4 years of English/language arts (which requires reading and writing) . Students not able to do that go for a modified diploma rather than the regular one, and afaik that did not change

 

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, LucyStoner said:

Someone I know posted on FB asking about ways to get rid of her Harry Potter books in such a way that no one else could read them (she thought donating them wasn't sufficient since other people could read them still if she did that).  I thought, "well, there's always matches but WTAF is going on in your mind that this seems like a valuable use of your time?"

I recognize the illiberal tendencies in that vein that I am seeing from the various antics I saw coming from the right for years.  

Wow. Whatever could she do with the books that she wants to get rid of, yet wants no one else to read? Hmmm... I mean, it's not like she could recycle them or anything!  😉 

[Sneezyone]

38 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

FAIR (Foundation Against Racism and Intolerance), who I've been following for a bit because I support their mission, seems to be against some of the CRT/whatever you want to call it teaching. https://www.fairforall.org/ 

I recognize John McWhorter. Interesting, complicated character. Similar background to my own. I also recognize most of the schools/stories they highlight as posh private institutions for wealthy people. Ah, I see Mr. Loury. There are, bien sur, links to the astroturf stories shared here. I also see them promoting Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie's online screed...basically about how she felt disrespected by two attendees at a workshop of hers that they paid to attend. I agreed with her in part but found her POV somewhat overshadowed by her own position as an established and respected author. Why deign to address the criticism at all except that her ego was bruised? Much more personal beef than newsworthy. Kinda like the Kardashian/West divorce.

This was among the headlines on their site: 

• Brigham and Women’s Hospital announces plans to discriminate and deny treatment to patients based on skin color
• Vermont Establishes a Vaccine Rollout Plan On Racial Lines
• Do Black People Enjoy Being Told They Are Weak and Dumb? The Elect Hope So. (It Bears Mentioning by John McWhorter)

There's, of course, more. Clickbait pays the bills, I guess.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Sneezyone

[LMD]

1 hour ago, Tanaqui said:

It's really not Harry Potter's job to teach your kids critical thinking, nor to teach them to read for facts (JKR engages in transphobic speech and promotes transphobia) instead of feeling (she's just sorta bad and stupid).

Are you saying that the bolded is a fact? Reciepts please. 

This comment is doing exactly what LucyStoner's niece did. Replacing 'she's stupid' with 'she's ~insert slur~' without backing up your assertion, expecting us to just follow along, unthinkingly.

[LucyStoner]

31 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Wow. Whatever could she do with the books that she wants to get rid of, yet wants no one else to read? Hmmm... I mean, it's not like she could recycle them or anything!  😉 

That came up!  Her thinking was someone could still take them out of the trash.  Uh, let them?  😛

[LucyStoner]

37 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I recognize John McWhorter.

Totally unrelated to FAIR or CRT, I really enjoyed his podcast on language, Lexicon Valley.  

[Sneezyone]

Just now, LucyStoner said:

Totally unrelated to FAIR or CRT, I really enjoyed his podcast on language, Lexicon Valley.  

Oh, I think he's a tremendous linguist. I think that's his specialty, really. I give the side eye to his side hustles tho. LOL. It's not his strength.

[Dmmetler]

21 minutes ago, LMD said:

Are you saying that the bolded is a fact? Reciepts please. 

This comment is doing exactly what LucyStoner's niece did. Replacing 'she's stupid' with 'she's ~insert slur~' without backing up your assertion, expecting us to just follow along, unthinkingly.

Read her Twitter feed. You can make up your own mind. 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Tanaqui said:

(JKR engages in transphobic speech and promotes transphobia) instead of feeling (she's just sorta bad and stupid).

It’s way more nuanced than that, and to approach it otherwise, is to engage in the same kind of thing the right is doing with race issues. I don’t agree with all of her views— I actually have no idea what she has said on the topic more recently— but I find the current very black-and-white view on this issue that is the only acceptable stance on the left to be more interested in looking like one is progressive and believes all the right things than to be concerned with what’s actually happening with young people experiencing gender dysphoria right now. The always affirm approach works out well for some, but damages others. I wish it was acceptable to have nuanced discussions, but currently any such discussion earns someone a “transphobe” label. It’s unhelpful and young people are getting hurt as the casualties of people wanting to show that they’re on the right side of this issue. I expect it will eventually resolve, but it’s going to take long enough that it will leave a not insignificant number of people angry and/or depressed that everyone told them this was the solution, but it wasn’t, and now they can’t reverse the things they’ve done. It’s just not nearly as simple as people want to think it is. 

1 hour ago, whitestavern said:

FAIR (Foundation Against Racism and Intolerance), who I've been following for a bit because I support their mission, seems to be against some of the CRT/whatever you want to call it teaching. https://www.fairforall.org/ 

Am I the only one frustrated they we’re still going round and round on people focusing on the CRT hot button word, when very few schools are actually teaching that and that the bans that we are talking about have to deal with issues of race in general?

[Happy2BaMom]

10 hours ago, LucyStoner said:

Hey now, D&D never went away.  It’s still massively popular in some circles, LOL.  
 

ETA:  To be clear, those circles include all of the kids in my family.  My sons both run weekly games with their friends.  My nieces and nephews are all into it as well.   It’s actually a great game for perspective taking and learning to follow the group plan.  

I wasn't referring to the actual game, just to the hysteria that surrounded the game & all the fear-mongering & desire to ban, yadda yadda.

[LMD]

1 hour ago, Dmmetler said:

Read her Twitter feed. You can make up your own mind. 

I have. I also read the many vile, violent and misogynist replies. I also read her essay, a format that allows much more nuance than 200ish characters.

If someone makes an accusation, they should substantiate it. Isn't that one of the main points of this thread?

Edited June 17, 2021 by LMD

[LMD]

Dp

Edited June 17, 2021 by LMD

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, LMD said:

I have. I also read the many vile, violent and misogynist replies. I also read her essay, a format that allows much more nuance than 200ish characters.

If someone makes an accusation, they should substantiate it. Isn't that one of the main points of this thread?

https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

 

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Melissa Louise said:

https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

 

And an update: the belief in question (that sex is binary and immutable) has been found to be 'worthy of respect in a democratic society' on appeal. 

[Wheres Toto]

From what I understand, FAIR is opposed to the idea of racism as a systemic issue, and promotes the idea that "taking about racism is the real racism".   

The mission:

Increasingly, American institutions — colleges and universities, businesses, government, the media and even our children’s schools — are enforcing a cynical and intolerant orthodoxy. This orthodoxy requires us to view each other based on immutable characteristics like skin color, gender and sexual orientation. It pits us against one another, and diminishes what it means to be human.

 

[Pam in CT]

re FAIR

1 hour ago, Wheres Toto said:

From what I understand, FAIR is opposed to the idea of racism as a systemic issue, and promotes the idea that "taking about racism is the real racism".   

The mission:

Increasingly, American institutions — colleges and universities, businesses, government, the media and even our children’s schools — are enforcing a cynical and intolerant orthodoxy. This orthodoxy requires us to view each other based on immutable characteristics like skin color, gender and sexual orientation. It pits us against one another, and diminishes what it means to be human.

 

Interesting. It seems to have materialized as a non-partisan  (NOT non-profit) advocacy organization ~January 2021, under the initial sponsorship of Bari Weiss.  Aside from a lively social media presence, which appears also to have sprung up ~January 2021, its primary function seems (?) to be a legal counsel matchmaking service, such that folks who want to bring their CRT concerns to court can match with counsel eager to help them.

It does indeed open with the obligaory MLK I Have A Dream... Content of their Character blessing over the Colorblind Doctrine. 

Virtually all (perhaps all, I haven't kept track) of the troubling "CRT" incidents we've discussed on this thread are helpfully collated for us in their "Profiles in Courage" section, collating stories of people advancing civil rights and liberty.

 

[Lady Florida.]

On 6/15/2021 at 9:45 AM, Sneezyone said:

Beyond that tho, the FL regulations explicitly say:

”Instruction on the required topics must be factual and objective, and may not suppress or distort significant historical events, such as the Holocaust, slavery, the Civil War and Reconstruction, the Civil Rights movement and the contributions of women, African American and Hispanic people to our country as already provided in section 1003.42 of Florida Statutes. Examples of theories that distort historical events and are inconsistent with State Board approved standards include the denial or minimization of the Holocaust and the teaching of “critical race theory,” meaning the theory that racism is not merely a product of prejudice but that racism is embedded in American society and its legal systems in order to uphold the supremacy of white persons. Instruction may not utilize material from the 1619 Project and may not define American history as something other than the creation of a new nation based largely on universal principles stated in the Declaration of Independence. Instruction must include the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights and subsequent amendments.”

It explicitly bans any consideration of structural racism as illegitimate content. That’s neither factual nor objective.

ETA: my husband has occasionally (no, a lot) given me a hard time about my relocation lines in the sand but EVERYTHING happening now (that he remains largely blind to) is why I’ve imposed those restrictions. These folks have as their intent the government-enforced suppression of truth. When these ill-informed freshmen show up to colleges in two years, they’re gonna be read for filth. My junior is taking US history next year. My 8th grader is taking US history, 1865 to the present. Moving to FL with DH was absolutely out of the question.

I always get to this thread late but was going to post Florida's after you said maybe someone else can post the bans from other states. Florida very specifically bans CRT and any discussion about systemic racism. Ugh. 

Living in Florida is not as bad as it sounds. I love it here. Unlike a lot of liberals/progressives who live here and say they hate it, I love my home state. I love the incredible biodiverse ecosystems. I love the ethnic diversity, especially people from various Caribbean islands. There are a number of blue areas and there are so many people in red/purple areas working hard to turn them blue. It takes dedication and work, not abandoning the state (which the Democratic party mostly has done). If you aren't homeschooling and your kids are in PS it can be tough but there are also dedicated teachers working hard to find ways around these horrible rules without jeopardizing their jobs. 

[Lady Florida.]

On 6/16/2021 at 12:07 PM, LucyStoner said:

Hey now, D&D never went away.  It’s still massively popular in some circles, LOL.  
 

ETA:  To be clear, those circles include all of the kids in my family.  My sons both run weekly games with their friends.  My nieces and nephews are all into it as well.   It’s actually a great game for perspective taking and learning to follow the group plan.  

My 23yo has been playing D&D with the same group of people since he was a teenager, with the same family hosting. The teens became young adults together and the dad is still the dungeon master. During the height of the pandemic they went virtual and recently started meeting in person again. Yes, D&D is still around. I think there was a thread about it here on the Chat Board not long ago and quite a few people said either they or their kids (or both) play.

[Lady Florida.]

14 hours ago, Happy2BaMom said:

I wasn't referring to the actual game, just to the hysteria that surrounded the game & all the fear-mongering & desire to ban, yadda yadda.

I really should have read through before replying above. Yeah, I remember that. I had no idea what D&D was and didn't care to find out. I just knew it was a certain group of people that usually find evil in the most mundane things.  

[Shoeless]

I had forgotten about the d&d hysteria from years ago. Maybe that's why I can't get any interest in playing around here. 

The most recent game-hysteria was over Pokemon Go. It was a "portal" for demonic possession. 😒

[Condessa]

I haven't had time and energy to continue to keep up with this thread, but thought you all might be interested in the newest developments in the Loudoun County School Board public meetings:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Condessa

[Pam in CT]

(Trump-appointed, FWIW) Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley weighed in on "CRT" and "woke" in response to questioning by House Armed Services Committee this morning:

 

(full video and transcript here)

[whitestavern]

2 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Hopefully you recognize that these tweets are biased? Look at the language they use to describe what happened. 

 

Pretty much if you are posting something from a MSM source it's going to be biased. 

[KSera]

1 minute ago, whitestavern said:

Pretty much if you are posting something from a MSM source it's going to be biased. 

That’s not even what those are. They are tweets worded in purposefully inflammatory ways. Mostly from Jack Posebiec, who I don’t think anyone would expect anything unbiased from. 

[whitestavern]

MSM was not a good choice of wording, sorry. I just meant it's nearly impossible to quote a  tweet, article, post, whatever without bias. I consider myself a moderate and find bias in almost everything I read. Literally the words jump out at me (from either side). I would think Social media like Twitter is even worse because it's all based on opinion. 

[Condessa]

2 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Hopefully you recognize that these tweets are biased? Look at the language they use to describe what happened. 

Certainly, but the videos show the actual events, and I couldn't spare the time to search for the same videos elsewhere, though it would have been preferable.

[TravelingChris]

On 6/12/2021 at 12:10 AM, Ordinary Shoes said:

But don't think that people answering a survey might be thinking of armed self defense as "violence?" If I was asked the question whether I thought violence was justified, I think I would include self defense. 

 

I wouldn't.

[Condessa]

2 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Hopefully you recognize that these tweets are biased? Look at the language they use to describe what happened. 

What do you think of the events in the videos?

[Sneezyone]

Florida Governor signs yet another law intended to chill speech in education, this time targeting colleges and universities. It’s hard not to see this as an attempt to threaten state-funded HBCUs like FAMU. This was sent to me by a mom of teens in FL who was recommending against FL schools. https://www.businessinsider.com/desantis-signs-law-to-punish-student-indoctrination-at-florida-universities-2021-6?fbclid=IwAR16CV4nNIKpzJJwMVeZJtK_JeGh3wTdF50A0RmBS4ACjjhp22Ca1wL1ss8

Edited June 23, 2021 by Sneezyone

[KSera]

42 minutes ago, Condessa said:

What do you think of the events in the videos?

I watched two of the four. The first was primarily an anti-trans thing, and saying that teaching kids anything about race was to teach them to hate others based on race. The one of the guy being arrested told me nothing because I don’t know what happened before that point. The way he was acting during the arrest, it doesn’t seem impossible to me that he may have done something that warranted arrest. But again, I can’t make any judgment on that without seeing what led to it. What were your thoughts on the videos? did you watch General Milley’s statement that Pam posted? I thought he made an excellent statement. I see that Jack Posobiec, who posted most of those tweets, made some extremely rude tweets in response to General Milley’s statement.

[Eos]

5 hours ago, Plum said:

I’m still struggling to see why it’s so important to force kids to see color and separate themselves out by power and privilege.

I think the answer is that there is a silent "white" in front of "kids" in your sentence.  BIPOC kids see color all the time, and are taught from a young age how to navigate the world to try to stay safe.  White kids don't have to see color to be safe from racially-based violence.   

Separating is not my preferred strategy.  Presenting concrete, workable ways out of the current (400 + years) situation should be the goal while helping all kids see where they are within the system only as a means to ending it.  Leaving kids with just the present facts is to leave them in despair. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Harpymom

[Dmmetler]

16 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Florida Governor signs yet another law intended to chill speech in education, this time targeting colleges and universities. It’s hard not to see this as an attempt to threaten state-funded HBCUs like FAMU. This was sent to me by a mom of teens in FL who was recommending against FL schools. https://www.businessinsider.com/desantis-signs-law-to-punish-student-indoctrination-at-florida-universities-2021-6?fbclid=IwAR16CV4nNIKpzJJwMVeZJtK_JeGh3wTdF50A0RmBS4ACjjhp22Ca1wL1ss8

I'd be interested in seeing statements from FAMU (and any other state HBCUs) on this. I follow the local HBCU awareness group, but so far haven't seen anything. 

[Dmmetler]

2 hours ago, Harpymom said:

I think the answer is that there is a silent "white" in front of "kids" in your sentence.  BIPOC kids see color all the time, and are taught from a young age how to navigate the world to try to stay safe.  White kids don't have to see color to be safe from racially-based violence.   

Separating is not my preferred strategy.  Presenting concrete, workable ways out of the current (400 + years) situation should be the goal while helping all kids see where they are within the system only as a means to ending it.  Leaving kids with just the present facts is to leave them in despair. 

When L was in preschool, the teacher read a cute little book about Martin Luther King. That afternoon in the car, I got asked "Did you know Darryl and Faith are Black?". I realized, then, that I'd missed something. Because having taught Head Start, I knew that by age 3, my Black students were very, very aware of what being Black meant. And that was a lesson all my attempts to have friends of multiple races and pick toys and media that did not default to White being normal had missed. I had missed the lesson that, as a white kid, you need to be ready to support your BIPOC friends and classmates when, not if, inequity happens. Because too often, it's the black kid, even as early as preschool, who gets blamed or treated more severely, and being able to say "no, ma'am/sir, this is what I saw" to a teacher or playground monitor (or down the roadm to a police officer) might save someone undeserved pain and suffering. That when Faith's mom has different rules, it's for a good reason, and that goes double for Darryl's mom, because Darryl is even more likely to be treated badly than Faith is.

 

 

[Sneezyone]

34 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I'd be interested in seeing statements from FAMU (and any other state HBCUs) on this. I follow the local HBCU awareness group, but so far haven't seen anything. 

Same. I think the kids are smart enough to see this for what it is. We are touring schools with DD right now and most of the campuses are dead so it may take a minute to hear a response but, as a prospective parent, I want to know how much meddling state officials intend to do and how the school plans to respond. I’m not sending my kid there to fight. She’s going to an HBCU because she doesn’t want to fight anymore. It will absolutely affect our decision-making.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Dmmetler]

40 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Same. I think the kids are smart enough to see this for what it is. We are touring schools with DD right now and most of the campuses are dead so it may take a minute to hear a response but, as a prospective parent, I want to know how much meddling state officials intend to do and how the school plans to respond. I’m not sending my kid there to fight. She’s going to an HBCU because she doesn’t want to fight anymore. It will absolutely affect our decision-making.

I think a lot of kids are tired of fighting. I'm sure that's part of the reason why Agnes Scott appealed so much. 

[Pam in CT]

re "forcing" kids to "see color"

9 hours ago, Plum said:

...I’m still struggling to see why it’s so important to force kids to see color and separate themselves out by power and privilege. My best friend in 2nd grade was black. I didn’t care what color she was. She liked Barbie and had a townhouse. I played at her house all the time. We lived in similar houses in the same neighborhood. I didn’t see her as different or better or worse. That thought never entered my mind. I don’t see how this new anti-bias antiracist training is better than what we had...

As others have already said more eloquently and with more lived experience than I, a very great % of POC have race thrust upon them whether they like it or not. 

School aged *white kids* may never once have thought about race. The vast majority of *black kids* have already gotten the memo by the time they arrive.

1 hour ago, Dmmetler said:

When L was in preschool, the teacher read a cute little book about Martin Luther King. That afternoon in the car, I got asked "Did you know Darryl and Faith are Black?". I realized, then, that I'd missed something. Because having taught Head Start, I knew that by age 3, my Black students were very, very aware of what being Black meant. And that was a lesson all my attempts to have friends of multiple races and pick toys and media that did not default to White being normal had missed. I had missed the lesson that, as a white kid, you need to be ready to support your BIPOC friends and classmates when, not if, inequity happens. Because too often, it's the black kid, even as early as preschool, who gets blamed or treated more severely, and being able to say "no, ma'am/sir, this is what I saw" to a teacher or playground monitor (or down the roadm to a police officer) might save someone undeserved pain and suffering. That when Faith's mom has different rules, it's for a good reason, and that goes double for Darryl's mom, because Darryl is even more likely to be treated badly than Faith is.

 

re I Have a Dream

9 hours ago, Plum said:

...Whatever happened to the ideal of Star Trek where race, sex, difference didn’t matter? Isn’t that the ideal? A future where we can all see past the outside and appreciate what’s inside...

The invocation of the ideal did not magically catapult us into a place where that ideal was already met. 

Certainly at the time of MLK's speech he categorically did NOT see our society as having met that standard.

It's obviously impossible to know, but if we imagine him alive today, scanning law enforcement/ judicial / sentencing / incarceration patterns, or the re-segregation of schools via different structures like charters and vouchers, or districting maps, or the recent wave of state laws to restrict voter access immediately following record black turnout, or the Confederate flags and N-word hurling towards Capitol Police on Jaunary 6... well. Do we believe MLK would judge our society today as having arrived at that shimmering place where all the little children are solely judged by the content of their respective characters?

 

Because if we *haven't* arrived at that shimmering ideal place, the insistence on "colorblind" has a weird, doubtless unintended, effect: If you don't even notice race, you don't see racism.

That isn't an option for folks on the other side of the telescope. 

Among the several points that Milley makes in that short clip are the ideas that

• the US military draws on the *whole* of the American population, and its leadership needs to understand the lived experience of *all* its members in order to lead effectively; and
• part of that is the historical legacy from 3/5 to antebellum to Civil War to Civil Rights; and
• part of that is also the current "white rage" (his words) that propelled the 1/6 assault on legislators and democracy itself

Those dynamics, the (Trump-appointed) Chairman of the JCS is saying, underpin our national security. They cannot be waved away by invoking Martin's Big Dream.

 

[Sneezyone]

There’s a certain amount of chicken/egg happening here too, as if asking students to share their perceptions of race/racism CREATES those perceptions rather than reflecting them. By the time I was in fifth grade, I was reading James Baldwin and my mom’s law books on the sly to try to make sense of what I was seeing and feeling and hearing. No one ever asked me what I thought; it didn’t mean that I hadn’t already formed thoughts.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Roadrunner]

On 6/13/2021 at 7:06 PM, Sneezyone said:

There is nothing inherently problematic with the word privilege. It’s a privilege for me to parent the children I have, a privilege to be able to pay my bills every month without worry, a privilege to have been home with them, largely isolated, for the last 15 months. I am privileged in many ways. The demonization of the word used in this context is something that can, in fact, be rejected. Seeing privilege as a personal attack is also a choice.

Still reading this thread. It’s fascinating,  but this comment made me scratch my head. I wouldn’t consider any of these you listed as privilege. You know what I would consider a privilege?  Being a child of a famous politician and as a result taking up spots of qualified people while you yourself aren’t qualified (a very real thing that happened to one of my kids). 

[Sneezyone]

27 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Still reading this thread. It’s fascinating,  but this comment made me scratch my head. I wouldn’t consider any of these you listed as privilege. You know what I would consider a privilege?  Being a child of a famous politician and as a result taking up spots of qualified people while you yourself aren’t qualified (a very real thing that happened to one of my kids). 

DH and I spent tens of thousands of dollars to have each of our children and, in the end, someone entrusted us with their child. I consider it a privilege that we had benefits to help offset those costs and that we were even given the opportunity. To me, it’s a privilege to be able to conceive and birth your own independently. I didn’t do anything to be able to stay home with my kids. My DH made a series of career moves that made that possible. Am I supposed to disagree that wealth/power confers unearned privilege on some? I don’t.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Roadrunner]

4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

DH and I spent tens of thousands of dollars to have each of our children. I consider it a privilege that we had benefits to help offset those costs. I didn’t do anything to be able to stay home with my kids. My DH made a series of career moves that made that possible. Am I supposed to disagree that wealth/power confers unearned privilege on some? I don’t.

We made a ton of sacrifices here as well. And nothing about my situation I consider a privilege. In fact I think I have irreversibly damaged my life because of those decisions. 

What I am saying is language doesn’t mean the same thing to all of us. Take this word - privilege. I would never use it in your context. So you and I can look at the same thing and have an op positive take on it. wonder how often people even agree on those definitions, have same understanding of what we are talking about. Privilege to me is very much an unearned thing that gives you a massive advantage. I have seen it happen in life sadly. 
So I could understand how being white, especially a good looking and wealthy one can be a privilege, but would never put other things in that category. 

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

We made a ton of sacrifices here as well. And nothing about my situation I consider a privilege. In fact I think I have irreversibly damaged my life because of those decisions. 

What I am saying is language doesn’t mean the same thing to all of us. Take this word - privilege. I would never use it in your context. So you and I can look at the same thing and have an op positive take on it. wonder how often people even agree on those definitions, have same understanding of what we are talking about. Privilege to me is very much an unearned thing that gives you a massive advantage. I have seen it happen in life sadly. 
So I could understand how being white, especially a good looking and wealthy one can be a privilege, but would never put other things in that category. 

Well, birthing your own offspring saves thousands of dollars and a lot of heartache so, yeah, that’s a privilege. The thing about privilege is that it’s easy to see others’ and sometimes very hard to see our own.

[Pam in CT]

I agree with @Roadrunner that we do bring different understanding of what the word itself means, which makes dialogue harder.

But there's also much to the idea that unearned gifts are easier to see at a distance, than up close:

12 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Well, birthing your own offspring saves thousands of dollars and a lot of heartache so, yeah, that’s a privilege. The thing about privilege is that it’s easy to see others’ and sometimes very hard to see our own.

It's pretty natural, for anyone who's worked hard and/or made choices that entailed tradeoffs and/or faced adversity and struggle, to attribute the good parts [solely] to those efforts and choices. 

And to discount the role that random chance or good fortune -- being born to the rights of citizenship, being born to parents who loved and cared, having good health/ fertility, NOT having parents or siblings or spouse prematurely snatched to cancer or accident, etc... plays.

[SKL]

About young kids seeing color, the first time it ever came up with my kids was when an AA girl in their preschool told them I couldn't be their mom because I was white.

I'm not sure what to think about that, but it's not for me to say what other people teach their kids at home.

The argument that black kids are more likely to face violence from whites vs the opposite is just not true.  It may be what they believe, but the numbers don't support this.  By that logic, should white people teach their kids to see color because someday a POC might harm them?  I would never do that.  You can say that's my "privilege" if you want to.

[Sneezyone]

7 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

I think a lot of kids are tired of fighting. I'm sure that's part of the reason why Agnes Scott appealed so much. 

BTW- we threw Agnes Scott into our tour lineup based on your review and DD really liked it.