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Mom in Va. who lived through Cultural Revolution addresses school board regarding Critical Race Theory


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On 6/12/2021 at 11:39 AM, Plum said:

That NV charter school, Democracy Prep Agassi campus is an inner city 97% minority 100% economically disadvantaged charter school within the 5th largest school district. 

 

On 6/12/2021 at 3:00 PM, Plum said:

Nope. Democracy Prep is a non profit charter school based in Harlem. There are 5 campuses across the nation and they still require that course for senior year. I’m not on social media so if parents complain about it there I wouldn’t know. If they are afraid to complain for fear of losing their kids place in a high performing inner city school their senior year then I wouldn’t know. I can’t say for sure either way other than the lawsuit. 

Sociology of Change Grade 12 
The final history course taken by Democracy Prep scholars, Sociology of Change explores various social change theories posed by sociologists through a case study method. Scholars read social change theories and apply them to historical and modern change movements with a view toward social justice and equity. Case studies include the ALS Ice Bucket Challenge, the Egyptian Revolution, the BlackLivesMatter Movement, and student movements in South Africa surrounding educational equity, both during Apartheid and more recently with the #FeesMustFall movement. The course ends with a debate evaluating the success of social justice organizations such as Grameen Bank and Teach for America.

 

26 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

This is from the school’s public facing website. I think it was very likely that a light skinned child who chose to attend would potentially feel disconcerted by some of the discussions, and needed to be emotionally prepared for it. And this isn’t what parents were given at back to school night, individual teacher websites specific to the class, or curriculum night, which will tend to be more detailed. Again, charter schools, in the US, are schools the student and family have to apply to attend. They tend to really, really, push the benefits of that particular school and specific differences in curriculum so they can differentiate themselves from the regular zoned public school that would be the default. 

https://democracyprep.org/programs/civics/
 

This is actually the website for the school in question. It's the Andre Agassi campus in my school district. It's K-12. It's a charter school that has always been for economically disadvantaged kids even before it was democracy prep. The troubling thing is that it is required senior year and most of these kids won't complain for fear of not graduating. Just because one kid complained doesn't mean more didn't want to. 

http://dpac.democracyprep.org/

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1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

Who says all of these things are deliberate causes of distress tho. I think the vast majority of teachers have the best of intentions. I’m sure the teachers I had when we discussed Twain thought they were 100% neutral and kind. I still felt EXTREME distress and hate the author to this day. As I said upthread, the one highlight for me is that he, too, is now canceled. It brings me joy.

Ok. Like I said, I would leave you all to your joy if the US wasn't culturally hegemonic. 

 

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52 minutes ago, Plum said:

How about Bourgeoisie and Proletariat? Haves and Have-nots? 

Because that’s not accurate for the discussion at hand. 
My well-to-do Dominican neighbors in their fancy house do not get to walk around in the world the way my family does when we step outside of our tiny little crap house.
When I lived in two different poor neighborhoods, I didn’t face the same issues as my mostly Black neighbors.

Money absolutely plays a part in many issues, but I’ve been white on both sides of the fence and know darker people on both sides of the fence. It’s not just the money.

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1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

Firstly, we introduce distressing CONTENT in an age appropriate way.

Secondly, we don't personalise that content by assigning agency and responsibility for those distressing topics to the students sitting in front of us, via a focus on their identity. 

 

CRT does not assign agency or responsibility to any individual student. No one thinks the 5th grader in the 2nd row has responsibility for mortgage disparities between races. No one. 

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2 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Because that’s not accurate for the discussion at hand. 
My well-to-do Dominican neighbors in their fancy house do not get to walk around in the world the way my family does when we step outside of our tiny little crap house.
When I lived in two different poor neighborhoods, I didn’t face the same issues as my mostly Black neighbors.

Money absolutely plays a part in many issues, but I’ve been white on both sides of the fence and know darker people on both sides of the fence. It’s not just the money.

It is partly the money! 

How can y'all be so pro-intersectionality and totally reject that class is one of those intersections?!

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2 minutes ago, Plum said:

 

 

This is actually the website for the school in question. It's the Andre Agassi campus in my school district. It's K-12. It's a charter school that has always been for economically disadvantaged kids even before it was democracy prep. The troubling thing is that it is required senior year and most of these kids won't complain for fear of not graduating. Just because one kid complained doesn't mean more didn't want to. 

http://dpac.democracyprep.org/

I'm still trying to figure out what is so bad about what they describe on their website? This is the quote, "We stand–unabashedly against racial profiling, police brutality, and any other form of racialized disparity in the criminal justice system. We will continue to engage in these painful but necessary conversations about structural inequity, community empowerment, and racial identity to prepare our scholars to be the next generation of changemakers. "

Which part of that are people against? Are they mad the school teaches that racial profiling is wrong? Do they want their children to be FOR police brutality and are mad the school is against it? What is the problem here? Community empowerment? A knowledge of structural inequality? That kids will discuss those things in the context of racial identity? What?

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Just now, Melissa Louise said:

It is partly the money! 

How can y'all be so pro-intersectionality and totally reject that class is one of those intersections?!

I don't think anyone is saying that class cannot provide benefits. Just that they are not the ONLY stratification. 

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2 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

It is partly the money! 

How can y'all be so pro-intersectionality and totally reject that class is one of those intersections?!

I *explicitly stated* that money absolutely plays a part in issues. And you quoted that.  Why would you accuse me of rejecting it?

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Just now, Carrie12345 said:

I *explicitly stated* that money absolutely plays a part in issues. And you quoted that.  Why would you accuse me of rejecting it?

You explicitly subordinated class to race. That's just playing Top Trumps. 

Intersectionality, properly understood, is non-hierarchical. 

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8 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

CRT does not assign agency or responsibility to any individual student. No one thinks the 5th grader in the 2nd row has responsibility for mortgage disparities between races. No one. 

Bingo. Automatically assuming teachers and curriculum are out there to demonize white 5th graders and make them have anxiety is disingenuous and an unsupported argument.

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1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

I'm still trying to figure out what is so bad about what they describe on their website? This is the quote, "We stand–unabashedly against racial profiling, police brutality, and any other form of racialized disparity in the criminal justice system. We will continue to engage in these painful but necessary conversations about structural inequity, community empowerment, and racial identity to prepare our scholars to be the next generation of changemakers. "

Which part of that are people against? Are they mad the school teaches that racial profiling is wrong? Do they want their children to be FOR police brutality and are mad the school is against it? What is the problem here? Community empowerment? A knowledge of structural inequality? That kids will discuss those things in the context of racial identity? What?

Just to catch you up a light-skinned green-eyed biracial senior had to take the Sociology for Change class and was classified as an oppressor. He objected and didn't want to participate but because it was a required class for graduation, they failed him and he didn't graduate. I believe they settled by giving him a passing grade. If you read the court papers, there's more info. 

The Clarks allege that assignments in the course required students to reveal their race, gender, sexual orientation and disabilities and then determine if privilege or oppression is attached to those identities. The class, which was conducted virtually due to the ongoing pandemic, also included breakout discussions which the plaintiffs say students could opt out of but still created a “psychologically abusive dilemma” and a “hostile educational environment.”

“William Clark was compelled to participate in public professions of his racial, religious, sexual, and gender identities, and would be labeled as an “oppressor” on these bases,” reads the court filing"

I was only pointing out the stats and the website we've covered so far. This is a fast moving thread and I'm sure it was missed. 

https://www.nevadacurrent.com/2021/01/21/las-vegas-charter-school-sued-for-curriculum-covering-race-identity/

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2 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

And yet, consistently elided. 

 

I, for one, explicitly mentioned the impact the relative wealth of the exemplar communities and complainants being advanced in this thread.

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I don’t have a whole lot to add but I really don’t understand why the US can’t come up with a way to introduce these things even to elementary aged students. My first year homeschooling was 2008, so Obama’s first election. My kids were 1st and 3rd grade and we talked about how there had never been a Black President before. My oldest was absolutely shocked and we spent a lot of time discussing why that was and how that probably made all different kinds of people feel. I didn’t even vote for Obama that first time but I kept my kids up to see him win and hear his speech and we cried because it was amazing to witness and sad that it took so long. I think most of these kids will be able to understand that something is wrong that it took so long and be able to understand how white men holding so much power for so long could negatively affect those who are not white. As my dc grew we were able to discuss how other laws/power/issues negatively affected minorities, but many of the kids we have met along the way don’t have parents who do this (and many who won’t even acknowledge it). I do think it’s important for schools to teach an accurate account of history and that’s not going to be comfortable for many-it should still be done though.

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5 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I'm still trying to figure out what is so bad about what they describe on their website? This is the quote, "We stand–unabashedly against racial profiling, police brutality, and any other form of racialized disparity in the criminal justice system. We will continue to engage in these painful but necessary conversations about structural inequity, community empowerment, and racial identity to prepare our scholars to be the next generation of changemakers. "

Which part of that are people against? Are they mad the school teaches that racial profiling is wrong? Do they want their children to be FOR police brutality and are mad the school is against it? What is the problem here? Community empowerment? A knowledge of structural inequality? That kids will discuss those things in the context of racial identity? What?

Yes, I am definitely for teaching all children that police brutality is great and that we should all celebrate racial profiling. 

That is a thing I am clearly invested in, in my parenting and my teaching. 

I definitely tell ds, when he goes on BLM  protests, that a little police brutality and profiling won't do him any harm. I definitely DON'T tell him to be wary of the cops and to not assume he can antagonise them in the way his white friends can. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Plum said:

Just to catch you up a light-skinned green-eyed biracial senior had to take the Sociology for Change class and was classified as an oppressor. He objected and didn't want to participate but because it was a required class for graduation, they failed him and he didn't graduate. I believe they settled by giving him a passing grade. If you read the court papers, there's more info. 

The Clarks allege that assignments in the course required students to reveal their race, gender, sexual orientation and disabilities and then determine if privilege or oppression is attached to those identities. The class, which was conducted virtually due to the ongoing pandemic, also included breakout discussions which the plaintiffs say students could opt out of but still created a “psychologically abusive dilemma” and a “hostile educational environment.”

“William Clark was compelled to participate in public professions of his racial, religious, sexual, and gender identities, and would be labeled as an “oppressor” on these bases,” reads the court filing"

I was only pointing out the stats and the website we've covered so far. This is a fast moving thread and I'm sure it was missed. 

https://www.nevadacurrent.com/2021/01/21/las-vegas-charter-school-sued-for-curriculum-covering-race-identity/

Just FYI- pleadings in civil suits represent allegations/claims, not facts. There is literally a plaintiff/claimant pleading their case and someone or something on the other side defending against those allegations/claims.

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4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Just FYI- pleadings in civil suits represent allegations/claims, not facts. There is literally a plaintiff/claimant pleading their case and someone or something on the other side defending against those allegations/claims.

So the kid and the mom made it up? 

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4 minutes ago, Plum said:

So the kid and the mom made it up? 

I have no idea. Their case wasn’t adjudicated by a fact finder so there’s no evidence for or against their version of what happened. A lot of the information in pleadings is opinion, allegations. That’s it. It’s not The Gospel (TM). Derek Chauvin’s pleadings said he acted within the law. The triers of fact disagreed.

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17 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

You explicitly subordinated class to race. That's just playing Top Trumps. 

Intersectionality, properly understood, is non-hierarchical. 

 

16 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Bull crap it isn’t.  

Revisiting, because I’m just flabbergasted.

Do you think that my Black mom friends consider themselves to be just as privileged as me?
My Latina mom friends?
My Muslim mom friends?
The ones with the Black husbands driving the same commute as mine? With their 13 and 14yo little boys out playing like mine? With their young girls applying for jobs like mine?
Do you believe they have it as “made” as I do?

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4 minutes ago, Plum said:

So the kid and the mom made it up? 

Not necessarily, but I’ve heard my own teen take things to an extreme often enough  to know that it was entirely possible that a student making a claim that “white,cisgender, straight men are oppressors” turned into “everyone is out to get me” and “I’m the only oppressor in the class” by the time the kid got home, even if his classmate making the statement did not actually mentally include him in that group. Or that the teacher made a statement to the effect that some of the areas of oppression can be X,Y, and Z, and the kid ticked the boxes mentally and decided that it meant he was an oppressor. If the class was virtual, hopefully there was a recording which can straighten out what was said vs what the student heard. If the teacher did tell the kid that he, individually, was an oppressor due to his skin color, eye color, gender, sexual orientation, etc, and should feel guilt over it, then that was bad teaching. No question. But that does not mean that the class, as described on the website, is an inherently bad class, or that it isn’t an appropriate topic of discussion for high school seniors in a Democracy/Civics focused charter school. 
 

 

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1 minute ago, Carrie12345 said:

 

Revisiting, because I’m just flabbergasted.

Do you think that my Black mom friends consider themselves to be just as privileged as me?
My Latina mom friends?
My Muslim mom friends?
The ones with the Black husbands driving the same commute as mine? With their 13 and 14yo little boys out playing like mine? With their young girls applying for jobs like mine?
Do you believe they have it as “made” as I do?

Yes, I definitely think that wealth creates a magic racism shield. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Yes, I definitely think that wealth creates a magic racism shield. 

 

 

Are you serious right now? 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/11/06/i-taught-my-black-kids-that-their-elite-upbringing-would-protect-them-from-discrimination-i-was-wrong/%3foutputType=amp

This man grew up among the black elite and participated in organizations like Jack and Jill (which, full disclosure, my family is also connected to). He famously promoted wealth and respectability politics in his book about the black elite and was, at the time, celebrated by conservatives in the US.

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37 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I'm still trying to figure out what is so bad about what they describe on their website? This is the quote, "We stand–unabashedly against racial profiling, police brutality, and any other form of racialized disparity in the criminal justice system. We will continue to engage in these painful but necessary conversations about structural inequity, community empowerment, and racial identity to prepare our scholars to be the next generation of changemakers. "

Which part of that are people against? Are they mad the school teaches that racial profiling is wrong? Do they want their children to be FOR police brutality and are mad the school is against it? What is the problem here? Community empowerment? A knowledge of structural inequality? That kids will discuss those things in the context of racial identity? What?

What was so bad was that they were failing a biracial student and denying him graduation for refusing to publicly outline the oppressor/oppressed elements of his heritage in class.  The school didn't alter their position on this until his mother made a huge public outcry over it.

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1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

Of course I'm not serious. Why would you think that? 

Maybe because you also accused me of being unfamiliar with intersectionality when I didn’t find mental health to be the primary challenge among my family members.

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2 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Of course I'm not serious. Why would you think that? 

Because your communication style is difficult to follow with all the contradictions and attempted facetiousness. Or sarcasm. Or whatever that was supposed to be.

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33 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I have no idea. Their case wasn’t adjudicated by a fact finder so there’s no evidence for or against their version of what happened.

Seriously? 

The family had 5 demands.

1) Expunge his failing grade

2) Allow him to take an alternative course

3) Have the Principal personally deliver the report card to the student

4) Refrain from further "graded identity confession and labeling exercises

5) Declare such exercises are unlawful

 

18 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

Not necessarily, but I’ve heard my own teen take things to an extreme often enough  to know that it was entirely possible that a student making a claim that “white,cisgender, straight men are oppressors” turned into “everyone is out to get me” and “I’m the only oppressor in the class” by the time the kid got home, even if his classmate making the statement did not actually mentally include him in that group. Or that the teacher made a statement to the effect that some of the areas of oppression can be X,Y, and Z, and the kid ticked the boxes mentally and decided that it meant he was an oppressor. If the class was virtual, hopefully there was a recording which can straighten out what was said vs what the student heard. If the teacher did tell the kid that he, individually, was an oppressor due to his skin color, eye color, gender, sexual orientation, etc, and should feel guilt over it, then that was bad teaching. No question. But that does not mean that the class, as described on the website, is an inherently bad class, or that it isn’t an appropriate topic of discussion for high school seniors in a Democracy/Civics focused charter school. 
 

 

They linked screenshots in the Nevada Current article. They recorded all of it and are holding onto it. They included socioeconomic class and religion into the lesson. 

 

Screenshot-2021-01-20-at-11.39.29-PM.png

Screenshot-2021-01-20-at-11.39.17-PM.png

ETA: It says it's supposed to be private, but it wasn't because he said he had to talk about it with the class. 

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36 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

You explicitly subordinated class to race. That's just playing Top Trumps. 

Intersectionality, properly understood, is non-hierarchical. 

Intersectionality, as I have had it explained to me here in the US, is absolutely understood to be hierarchical.  On the hierarchy are a number of categories such as race, class, gender/sexuality, religion, which seem to be accorded different weights, and different levels of "privilege" within each category.  Like the wheel someone demonstrated.  Where a minority group falls depends on the success that minority has achieved as a group overall, more than on historical disadvantages.  Thus Jewish people and Asians are deemed to be barely less privileged than white people.  

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4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Maybe because you also accused me of being unfamiliar with intersectionality when I didn’t find mental health to be the primary challenge among my family members.

Look, I know you don't believe in class as oppression. It's you who has said in past conversations that white people who can't make it when they hold all the racial privilege just don't really deserve consideration. 

And that's fine. You don't have to be intersectional around class ( or sex). 

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3 minutes ago, Condessa said:

Intersectionality, as I have had it explained to me here in the US, is absolutely understood to be hierarchical.  On the hierarchy are a number of categories such as race, class, gender/sexuality, religion, which seem to be accorded different weights, and different levels of "privilege" within each category.  Like the wheel someone demonstrated.  Where a minority group falls depends on the success that minority has achieved as a group overall, more than on historical disadvantages.  Thus Jewish people and Asians are deemed to be barely less privileged than white people.  

That is insane. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Plum said:

Seriously? 

The family had 5 demands.

1) Expunge his failing grade

2) Allow him to take an alternative course

3) Have the Principal personally deliver the report card to the student

4) Refrain from further "graded identity confession and labeling exercises

5) Declare such exercises are unlawful

 

They linked screenshots in the Nevada Current article. They recorded all of it and are holding onto it. They included socioeconomic class and religion into the lesson. 

 

Screenshot-2021-01-20-at-11.39.29-PM.png

Screenshot-2021-01-20-at-11.39.17-PM.png

ETA: It says it's supposed to be private, but it wasn't because he said he had to talk about it with the class. 

Again, if you think the allegations of teens are 100% accurate, well, I don’t know what to tell you. Yes, I’m serious. It’s entirely possible the teen blew the situation way out of proportion and he didn’t need to discuss anything that he was uncomfortable with. At the end of the day, the school is *still* teaching the class, the class is *still* required*, the student *did not* get a hand delivered diploma or public apology, and nothing was declared illegal. We live in a litigious country. All that glitters is not gold.

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3 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Look, I know you don't believe in class as oppression. It's you who has said in past conversations that white people who can't make it when they hold all the racial privilege just don't really deserve consideration. 

And that's fine. You don't have to be intersectional around class ( or sex). 

I have never in my life said such a thing but, sure, ok.

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2 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Ooooooh, you felt attacked by my questions?  

Do I feel you're piling on ? Yes. Not sure why that's a trick question. Most people do when there's a rapid fire quotation and mis-characterisation of them going on. Normal emotion. Peopl do get defensive in that situation, as I'm sure you do sometimes. 

You do you re personal animus. I can't stop you. I don't think it leads to justice, but I could be wrong. 

 

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Just now, Melissa Louise said:

It's an interesting dynamic, isn't it ? I don't remember the conversation you claim, but I accept it happened.

It was, literally, a month ago and I could quote but it’s not worth it. Carry on.

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1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

Who says all of these things are deliberate causes of distress tho. I think the vast majority of teachers have the best of intentions. I’m sure the teachers I had when we discussed Twain thought they were 100% neutral and kind. I still felt EXTREME distress and hate the author to this day. As I said upthread, the one highlight for me is that he, too, is now canceled. It brings me joy.

Wow, I’m really glad you posted this because I thought your previous post was completely sarcastic but now I see that you meant it.

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1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

Do I feel you're piling on ? Yes. Not sure why that's a trick question. Most people do when there's a rapid fire quotation and mis-characterisation of them going on. Normal emotion. Peopl do get defensive in that situation, as I'm sure you do sometimes. 

You do you re personal animus. I can't stop you. I don't think it leads to justice, but I could be wrong. 

 

I’m not entirely sure why my responses to your posts would be considered “piling on”. I’ve re-read them several times now and don’t see where they might be construed as anything other than fair responses to questions and positions.  Nothing that would qualify as ad hominem.  If anything, you accused me of NOT saying the very things I did, which are all still there!

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2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Again, if you think the allegations of teens are 100% accurate, well, I don’t know what to tell you. Yes, I’m serious. It’s entirely possible the teen blew the situation way out of proportion and he didn’t need to discuss anything that he was uncomfortable with. At the end of the day, the school is *still* teaching the class, the class is *still* required*, the student *did not* get a hand delivered diploma or public apology, and nothing was declared illegal. We live in a litigious country. All that glitters is not gold.

But wouldn't the school have said he was lying?  Wouldn't they have made some public statement that the boy's report of it was incorrect, that the teacher never said that, that his failing grade was received for ____ reason, not what he thought?  

When one party says such-and-such happened, and the other party involved doesn't contradict them, even though it paints them in a bad light, why decide that the teen must be wrong, even though the school didn't disagree with him?  It seems like a real stretch.

Unless the school issued a statement of that kind that I missed.

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1 minute ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Wow, I’m really glad you posted this because I thought your previous post was completely sarcastic but now I see that you meant it.

Yep, I totally meant it. I have NEVER been a fan.

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1 minute ago, Carrie12345 said:

I’m not entirely sure why my responses to your posts would be considered “piling on”. I’ve re-read them several times now and don’t see where they might be construed as anything other than fair responses to questions and positions.  Nothing that would qualify as ad hominem.  If anything, you accused me of NOT saying the very things I did, which are all still there!

I think we are done here. 

The ignore button exists. 

Please consider using it. 

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