Update--Another episode with dh

[Scarlett]

Update--Saturday we had family at our house for dinner.  Dh got up from the table and laid down on our bed on his side because he felt like he was going to pass out again.  He did not though.  

Yesterday I went with him to the doctor.  We were there a long time, going over all of the incidents and other history.  The doctor is referring him to a gastro, a  neurologist and cardiologist for full work ups.  Hope to get to the bottom of it.

Original post---

Anyone remember the night we were out with friends and he passed out and an ambulance was called and we spent the night in the ER?

Tonight we were out with friends. Mexican outside on the patio.  Dss20 was with us thank god.  We had finished eating and were visiting and dh says to me, ‘remember that night? It is about to happen again.’  He laid his head back on the chair and said ‘right….now’.  And he was out.. About 45 seconds passed, during which I stayed pretty calm….he began to open and close his mouth and then I could see vomit coming out and I jumped up and  told ds to help me get his head turned but it was hard because of how he was slumped in the chair….ds is big and strong and he just turned the entire chair on its side and eased dh to the ground as he was vomiting.  He woke up pretty quick…maybe 15 more seconds…..and just like last time he was fine.   Well except for being so embarrassed he had vomited all over himself. 

Our friend who was with us is in the medical field….she sent me this link. https://www.google.com/search?q=passing out associated with eating
 

So I checked his blood pressure when we got home and it was 111/68…..low for him.  He got a shower and is sleeping now.  
 

Calling his doctor tomorrow.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Scarlett

[prairiewindmomma]

Did they do a seizure rule out before? 

[LucyStoner]

How scary.  I hope he get helpful answers from his doctor.  Do you have a consulting nurse line you can call tonight?  

[Scarlett]

Just now, prairiewindmomma said:

Did they do a seizure rule out before? 

How do they do that?  
 

I will say it did not seem seizure like.  

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, LucyStoner said:

How scary.  I hope he get helpful answers from his doctor.  Do you have a consulting nurse line you can call tonight?  

Probably, but he is fine now.  Just like the other two times this has happened. 

[Spryte]

Oh my goodness, I hope you get some answers soon.  
 

 

[MercyA]

Oh, Scarlett, how scary! Please keep us updated! 

[Catwoman]

How scary for you and dss!  I’ll pray for your dh, Scarlett, and I hope you get some answers soon. 

Since you were out with friends both times this happened, could your dh be having some kind of unusual allergic reaction to something he only eats or drinks when you are out at restaurants? 

My biggest fear would be that you could have been on your way home and this could have happened while he was driving. Fortunately, he had a little warning that it was going to happen, but if you were on a highway, he might not have had enough time to pull over.

I hope he’s okay, Scarlett!!!

 

[freesia]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

How scary for you and dss!  I’ll pray for your dh, Scarlett, and I hope you get some answers soon. 

Since you were out with friends both times this happened, could your dh be having some kind of unusual allergic reaction to something he only eats or drinks when you are out at restaurants? 

My biggest fear would be that you could have been on your way home and this could have happened while he was driving. Fortunately, he had a little warning that it was going to happen, but if you were on a highway, he might not have had enough time to pull over.

I hope he’s okay, Scarlett!!!

 

I’m wondering about an allergy, too—except for the lack of anything else like hives or diarrhea.  My dh has an allergy to a preservative that is used extensively in the restaurant business. He can react anaphylactically—which for him is a drop in blood pressure and passing out. 

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

How scary for you and dss!  I’ll pray for your dh, Scarlett, and I hope you get some answers soon. 

Since you were out with friends both times this happened, could your dh be having some kind of unusual allergic reaction to something he only eats or drinks when you are out at restaurants? 

My biggest fear would be that you could have been on your way home and this could have happened while he was driving. Fortunately, he had a little warning that it was going to happen, but if you were on a highway, he might not have had enough time to pull over.

I hope he’s okay, Scarlett!!!

 

Thank you. Yes, it terrifies me too to think he could have been driving or alone and choked to death on his vomit.  
 

We eat at this restaurant about once a week with these friends. It doesn’t seem to be an allergy.  I forgot about the incident on the plane in 2016.  It was an early morning flight and he had not eaten anything. 

[Kassia]

That is terrifying!  I'm so sorry for you and DH.  😞  I hope he gets checked out and they can figure out what is happening.  

[lauraw4321]

I’m so sorry! How stressful!

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I’d honestly want to rule out seizure activity.  Seizures present in many different ways and it’s concerning that he both vomited and had an aura.  Most people who pass out don’t vomit.

[Scarlett]

I have a message in to his primary doc.  How do they rule out seizure activity?

[itsheresomewhere]

Ask( I would demand) an EEG.  It could be a seizure that does not look like one. Did they do an MRI/ct of his brain last time?

[Scarlett]

Thanks everyone.   I will definitely mention the seizure possibility to his doctor.  How long after the incident would an EEG detect it still?

[fraidycat]

That's so scary! I hope you the docs can get it figured out soon.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I’d honestly want to rule out seizure activity.  Seizures present in many different ways and it’s concerning that he both vomited and had an aura.  Most people who pass out don’t vomit.

He did not vomit the other two times.  Well, he claims after the 2019 incident the nurse who jumped in to help told him she wiped vomit out of his mouth but if it was there it was not like last night.  And on the plane, no vomit.

What do you mean by he had an aura?

[ktgrok]

He needs to see a neurologist and a cardiologist. Passing out can also be cardiac in nature. 

[ktgrok]

https://www.brighamandwomens.org/heart-and-vascular-center/diseases-and-conditions/syncope-fainting

[mommyoffive]

Wow, how scary.  I am so thankful that he is ok.  When this happened before did he go to the doctor?   What was done and said? 

I would want a full work up.  EEG for seizures for sure.  Check his heart.  Check for allergies.  I really hope you find a great doctor that will find get to the bottom of this.  

[Scarlett]

Just now, mommyoffive said:

Wow, how scary.  I am so thankful that he is ok.  When this happened before did he go to the doctor?   What was done and said? 

I would want a full work up.  EEG for seizures for sure.  Check his heart.  Check for allergies.  I really hope you find a great doctor that will find get to the bottom of this.  

In 2016 when it happened an hour into a 3 hour flight, no he did not go to the doctor.  He went a week or so later and the doctor found nothing wrong.  In 2019 he went by ambulance to the ER where we stayed until 4 a.m. while they did every test under the sun.  They found nothing.

[mommyoffive]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

In 2016 when it happened an hour into a 3 hour flight, no he did not go to the doctor.  He went a week or so later and the doctor found nothing wrong.  In 2019 he went by ambulance to the ER where we stayed until 4 a.m. while they did every test under the sun.  They found nothing.

Do you remember what tests they ran in 2019?  EEG?  Anything for his heart? 

 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

16 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

He did not vomit the other two times.  Well, he claims after the 2019 incident the nurse who jumped in to help told him she wiped vomit out of his mouth but if it was there it was not like last night.  And on the plane, no vomit.

What do you mean by he had an aura?

He knew it was going to happen.  That concerns me for both neuro and even cardiac related. 
An EEG will see any strange activity going on in the brain even if it’s not full seizure level.  

[Scarlett]

Here is a list of what they checked him for in the ER when this happened 2 years ago.

Tropinin 1 (twice)

XR Chest

CT chest (looking for a PE)

Comp metabolic panel

CBC with auto differential

B type natriuretic peptide

ECG 12 Lead

[mommyoffive]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Here is a list of what they checked him for in the ER when this happened 2 years ago.

Tropinin 1 (twice)

XR Chest

CT chest (looking for a PE)

Comp metabolic panel

CBC with auto differential

B type natriuretic peptide

ECG 12 Lead

I haven't googled all these tests yet.  But they didn't do anything looking for a seizure? 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

He knew it was going to happen.  That concerns me for both neuro and even cardiac related. 
An EEG will see any strange activity going on in the brain even if it’s not full seizure level.  

Ok.  He is a little odd in that regard....he is strangely aware of his body and brain functions.  As an (unrelated) example, he can articulate precisely why he has trouble reading out loud.  He comprehends fine...but as he described it there is a 'stutter between his brain and his mouth'.  

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

I haven't googled all these tests yet.  But they didn't do anything looking for a seizure? 

No, it doesn't look like it.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Ok.  He is a little odd in that regard....he is strangely aware of his body and brain functions.  As an (unrelated) example, he can articulate precisely why he has trouble reading out loud.  He comprehends fine...but as he described it there is a 'stutter between his brain and his mouth'.  

I’d also ask for a stress test just to be on the safe side.  If he feels something weird is about to happen, that could also be cardiac.  I’ve had some patients who just had that weird feeling.

[mommyoffive]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

No, it doesn't look like it.

Yeah I would for sure get one.   I am stunned that they didn't suggest that. Especially since the other things didn't find anything.

[J-rap]

There are tests they can do to see if there have been past seizures.  My dh has had those tests.  I think they did one when he was asleep and one when he was awake.  They were able to tell that he had a seizure during a past scary episode, even though we didn't know it at the time.  During a more recent EEG, they could tell that even though he no longer was having seizures (he's been on seizure meds), his brain still showed hyper activity that could result in a seizure if he weren't on seizure meds.

My sister has petite mal seizures which are different than regular seizures, but I think some of the pre-symptoms are the same.  You said your dh knew it was coming.  What were his symptoms?  My sister knows when hers are coming too.  She gets a metallic taste in her mouth -- it just kind of floods her taste buds, and she feels her brain feeling fuzzy, and then it hits.

ETA:  With petite mal seizures, you don't seize like you do with grand mal seizures.  You mostly just kind of space out.

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by J-rap

[Catwoman]

Is he resting now, Scarlett? Can you get him in for testing today? 

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Is he resting now, Scarlett? Can you get him in for testing today? 

He is at work.  He was fine within a minute of waking up.  Same as the other times.  I have a call in to the doctor.  

[Lady Florida.]

How scary Scarlett! I hope he can get a definitive answer from his doctor this time. I guess the positive thing is that it only happened a few times, and not close together. If it was something serious it would have gotten progressively worse and more quickly right? That's going to be my hope for him - that it's one of those weird fainting issues that some people have but that it's benign and manageable. ((hugs))

Edited June 10, 2021 by Lady Florida.

[Scarlett]

16 minutes ago, J-rap said:

There are tests they can do to see if there have been past seizures.  My dh has had those tests.  I think they did one when he was asleep and one when he was awake.  They were able to tell that he had a seizure during a past scary episode, even though we didn't know it at the time.  During a more recent EEG, they could tell that even though he no longer was having seizures (he's been on seizure meds), his brain still showed hyper activity that could result in a seizure if he weren't on seizure meds.

My sister has petite mal seizures which are different than regular seizures, but I think some of the pre-symptoms are the same.  You said your dh knew it was coming.  What were his symptoms?  My sister knows when hers are coming too.  She gets a metallic taste in her mouth -- it just kind of floods her taste buds, and she feels her brain feeling fuzzy, and then it hits.

ETA:  With petite mal seizures, you don't seize like you do with grand mal seizures.  You mostly just kind of space out.

 

This is what he said his symptoms were 

nauseous, clammy and sweaty.  Felt I had ate too much.  Sleepy. And thirsty.

And he definitely wasn't just 'spaced out'. He was out cold.  Complete dead weight.  If ds had not been there I would have probably given him a concussion by trying to keep him from choking. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Scarlett

[J-rap]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

This is what he said his symptoms were 

nauseous, clammy and sweaty.  Felt I had ate too much.  Sleepy. And thirsty.

And he definitely wasn't just 'spaced out'. He was out cold.  Complete dead weight.  If ds had not been there I would have probably given him a concussion by trying to keep him from choking. 

Does he get tunnel vision before he's out?  I've fainted or been close to fainting many times in my life!  Just my body type I guess.  I've always had low blood pressure and things just seem to affect me more.  I get clammy and sweaty, but I also get tunnel vision where my vision gets smaller and smaller and then I'm out cold.  That used to happen to me a lot more when I was younger, but also, I think it connected a little with the food I was eating.  (Too many carbs and sugar and not enough protein and veggies.)  My diet has completely changed since those days.  I've also learned I can't wait hours between meals, but have to nibble in-between.  That makes a huge difference. 

[Alicia64]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

This is what he said his symptoms were 

nauseous, clammy and sweaty.  Felt I had ate too much.  Sleepy.

((((Scarlett)))). How incredibly scary. I'd definitely proceed with specialists. (I'm sorry if everyone is saying the same thing.) I had -- have -- a health thing that was only detected by highly specialized specialists at Emory.

Hugs to everyone including your strong ds.

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Here is a list of what they checked him for in the ER when this happened 2 years ago.

Tropinin 1 (twice)

XR Chest

CT chest (looking for a PE)

Comp metabolic panel

CBC with auto differential

B type natriuretic peptide

ECG 12 Lead

That looks like they didn't do any neurological tests and were very heart focused. I would see a neurologist and request a brain scan. 

[Tanaqui]

I, too, think you need to rule out seizures. Seizures don't always look like what we think they look like - and the fact that he's great at understanding his internal body cues does not mean he wasn't having an aura. Both things can be true at the same time.

I hope you get an accurate answer soon.

[BeachGal]

Did they rule out postpandrial hypotension? After eating a high carb meal, some people, especially older people, can faint. Has he been checked for diabetes or prediabetes? A fasting insulin test would be a good idea if they haven’t done one yet.

[ktgrok]

 

3 hours ago, J-rap said:

Does he get tunnel vision before he's out?  I've fainted or been close to fainting many times in my life!  Just my body type I guess.  I've always had low blood pressure and things just seem to affect me more.  I get clammy and sweaty, but I also get tunnel vision where my vision gets smaller and smaller and then I'm out cold.  That used to happen to me a lot more when I was younger, but also, I think it connected a little with the food I was eating.  (Too many carbs and sugar and not enough protein and veggies.)  My diet has completely changed since those days.  I've also learned I can't wait hours between meals, but have to nibble in-between.  That makes a huge difference. 

I sort of get tunnel vision - more like things look static like - like old school television not coming in clearly. I also lose hearing...I can see mouths moving but not hear anything. And yes, clammy/sweaty. Thankfully when it has happened someone knew what to do and I didn't fully pass out. But it was close. Mine is definitely a vagal reaction. My girlfriend had it happen while pooping...that was embarrassing! Her mom and stepdad had to find her and ease hr off the toilet, pants down, while they waited for the medics!

If he feels like that again he needs to get his head down, asap. Get the blood back to brain. Fainting is the body's way of getting you to lay down so gravity can get to the brain again. Head between the knees or flat on the floor - right away. That way at least he won't fall if he does pass out, and he might not pass out if he does it. 

One time a nurse had me cough very hard when it happened, and something about that stopped the episode - forced blood pressure higher temporarily I think? But it was an actual technique for someone about to pass out. 

Ice on the back of neck can sometimes work as well. 

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

That looks like they didn't do any neurological tests and were very heart focused. I would see a neurologist and request a brain scan. 

Not only that, but a short ECG isn't enough to rule out cardiac. You need a 48 hour Holter monitor, plus/minus stress test and echocardiogram! Now, happening once, ok...but we have a pattern now. It is PROBABLY not serious...but you need to know that. Ask for cardiology appt and neuro appt. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by ktgrok

[Scarlett]

20 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

 

I sort of get tunnel vision - more like things look static like - like old school television not coming in clearly. I also lose hearing...I can see mouths moving but not hear anything. And yes, clammy/sweaty. Thankfully when it has happened someone knew what to do and I didn't fully pass out. But it was close. Mine is definitely a vagal reaction. My girlfriend had it happen while pooping...that was embarrassing! Her mom and stepdad had to find her and ease hr off the toilet, pants down, while they waited for the medics!

If he feels like that again he needs to get his head down, asap. Get the blood back to brain. Fainting is the body's way of getting you to lay down so gravity can get to the brain again. Head between the knees or flat on the floor - right away. That way at least he won't fall if he does pass out, and he might not pass out if he does it. 

One time a nurse had me cough very hard when it happened, and something about that stopped the episode - forced blood pressure higher temporarily I think? But it was an actual technique for someone about to pass out. 

Ice on the back of neck can sometimes work as well. 

Not only that, but a short ECG isn't enough to rule out cardiac. You need a 48 hour Holter monitor, plus/minus stress test and echocardiogram! Now, happening once, ok...but we have a pattern now. It is PROBABLY not serious...but you need to know that. Ask for cardiology appt and neuro appt. 

In 2019 when he had that episode they put a 48 hour Holter monitor on him.  He turned it in and they lost it.  He would not go back and do it again.  And he says he isn't doing another one now.  We shall see what the doc says.  

He said he did not get tunnel vision at all. Those are all good reminders about what to do to stop it from happening or at least keep from falling out on the floor and busting one's head.  

[sheryl]

18 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Did they do a seizure rule out before? 

Yes, that was my first thought.  DD has controlled epilepsy but the onset was a nightmare....

eta:  sorry about this happening.  hope y'all get answers soon.

Edited June 10, 2021 by sheryl

[Carol in Cal.]

I am astounded that they didn’t monitor his heart for 30 days the last time.

Also, no checking for seizures?  That’s also astounding.  

I think asking for a referral to specialists is in order now—both cardiac and brain.

[Catwoman]

What did the doctor say, @Scarlett?

I hope he is scheduling some testing for your dh, as well as referring him to specialists.

[J-rap]

3 hours ago, ktgrok said:

 

I sort of get tunnel vision - more like things look static like - like old school television not coming in clearly. I also lose hearing...I can see mouths moving but not hear anything. And yes, clammy/sweaty. Thankfully when it has happened someone knew what to do and I didn't fully pass out. But it was close. Mine is definitely a vagal reaction. My girlfriend had it happen while pooping...that was embarrassing! Her mom and stepdad had to find her and ease hr off the toilet, pants down, while they waited for the medics!

If he feels like that again he needs to get his head down, asap. Get the blood back to brain. Fainting is the body's way of getting you to lay down so gravity can get to the brain again. Head between the knees or flat on the floor - right away. That way at least he won't fall if he does pass out, and he might not pass out if he does it. 

One time a nurse had me cough very hard when it happened, and something about that stopped the episode - forced blood pressure higher temporarily I think? But it was an actual technique for someone about to pass out. 

Ice on the back of neck can sometimes work as well. 

Not only that, but a short ECG isn't enough to rule out cardiac. You need a 48 hour Holter monitor, plus/minus stress test and echocardiogram! Now, happening once, ok...but we have a pattern now. It is PROBABLY not serious...but you need to know that. Ask for cardiology appt and neuro appt. 

I was once told that when I start to feel those symptoms, I should think of something (or someone!) that makes me really mad!  Supposedly it gets your adrenaline going and gets your blood flowing back into your head.   I actually have tried that several times and I do think it helps!

 

[Melissa in Australia]

Hugs

Soynds very scary

[Scarlett]

19 minutes ago, J-rap said:

I was once told that when I start to feel those symptoms, I should think of something (or someone!) that makes me really mad!  Supposedly it gets your adrenaline going and gets your blood flowing back into your head.   I actually have tried that several times and I do think it helps!

 

Yes and coughing is suppose to helping too. 

[Scarlett]

We did hear back.  Dr. Chastised him for not seeking ER care and he will see Dh Monday.  

[TCB]

One thing I wanted to mention was that if someone passes out it is a good idea to get them lying flat and preferably on their side as quickly as possible. They should recover more quickly if you do. Of course you might not do this if there was any injury sustained at the time ie trauma, but good to do if they just pass out.