Grammar - teaching changes in tense

[Bookworm4]

It's been a while since I've posted on here.  I have a 10 yr old dyslexic whose grammar (correct usage of different verb tenses) scored low on recent IEP update testing.  We do homeschool, but use the school for some services.  Just correcting her grammar usage during conversation hasn't been enough.  Do you know of any curriculum that target grammar tenses, not just other areas of grammar?  Her reading is near a 3rd grade level, but I am fine reading through any material orally with her.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Bookworm4

[Kanin]

That's unusual for a 10 year old. That would raise red flags with me as far as needing speech-language evaluation. For materials, I'd start looking for speech-language resources. 

[Lecka]

Does she have speech therapy?  Can you ask a speech therapist at the school?

This is a speech therapy kind of thing, and I would say — try to talk to a speech therapist about it. 
 

The thing about grammar programs is that they are going to assume a certain level of oral language.  They will use that as a base.  They will not be teaching that foundation.  
 

Unless you are using something intended this way, and then you would be using a speech therapy kind of program.

You can Google around sites like Super Duper but I would say to do that after knowing what kind of things a speech therapist would do.  

[Lecka]

Also when you say low — there is a difference between low meaning “50th percentile but other scores are all higher” and low as in below the 25th percentile.  
 

If they told you the word “low” at the meeting or if you noticed it as a lower score — they are different things.  

[Lecka]

If it is more of a lower score but not a score low enough to point to a speech therapy — then I do think a grammar program could help — but I do not know one to recommend.  

Also you could chat with a speech therapist without her qualifying for speech — maybe the speech therapist could recommend something.

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Lecka

[Bookworm4]

On 6/10/2021 at 4:52 AM, Kanin said:

That's unusual for a 10 year old. That would raise red flags with me as far as needing speech-language evaluation. For materials, I'd start looking for speech-language resources. 

Thanks.  It actually came up in discussion with DD's SLP as she prepared to determine which tests to use in her evaluation.  She went through one of her tests with DD.

 

[Bookworm4]

On 6/10/2021 at 9:55 AM, Lecka said:

Does she have speech therapy?  Can you ask a speech therapist at the school?

This is a speech therapy kind of thing, and I would say — try to talk to a speech therapist about it. 
 

The thing about grammar programs is that they are going to assume a certain level of oral language.  They will use that as a base.  They will not be teaching that foundation.  
 

Unless you are using something intended this way, and then you would be using a speech therapy kind of program.

You can Google around sites like Super Duper but I would say to do that after knowing what kind of things a speech therapist would do.  

Thank you.  She does receive speech therapy.  We finished updating the IEP this week and ended up keeping articulation and phonemic awareness on it and adding irregular past tense verb usage.  I was just hoping to find material to also practice it at home.  I don't know what the actual test was called, but she mentioned that DD only had 53% accuracy for her age, she struggled with some of the correct irregular past tense verb usage that 6 year olds should know, and it was enough that we could add it to the IEP.  This fall they will start working on it, but I also am hoping to put some more focused effort into it with our school work at home.  I did look at little at Easy Grammar and Daily Grams and thinking that maybe I should start at a lower level, but hopefully I can find someone local with a copy to look through it to decide if that would help.  DD is also dyslexic and I don't know if that is impacting her grammar.  

[PeterPan]

You're wanting SLP materials, not a grammar text. Look at ProEdInc and Super Duper Inc and you'll find all kinds of great things. You may need a 2nd SLP if she still has articulation goals at age 10. There's more going on than one SLP is likely to know how to do or to get done in one session a week. And the problem is, she probably has narrative language issues on top of this that didn't get tested and aren't getting addressed. For that, look at MindWings/Story Grammar Marker. 

[PeterPan]

https://www.proedinc.com/Products/31005/100-grammar.aspx

https://www.proedinc.com/Products/33813E/spotlight-on-grammar-verbs-ebook.aspx

https://www.superduperinc.com/products/view.aspx?pid=CRD7882&s=sequencing-verb-tenses-combo-set-1-&-2#.YMSy0i2ZPkE

https://mindwingconcepts.com/pages/methodology

There is the Test of Narrative language that you could have the SLP run. However what you might want to do is look for an SLP who specializes in literacy. They're out there, and they usually own these tests and extra materials. They're not run of the mill, and even many schools don't own them.

[PeterPan]

My ds had articulation goals through this past year, but he has verbal apraxia. You might want to consider also having her tested by an audiologist for APD. Again, the school should have done it and didn't. APD is such a misnomer, but what it really means is crap at processing auditory language. So language develops from pitch to parts to whole, which is why you have this cascade of things that need to develop (prosody=awareness of sounds, phonemic awareness=bits, words, morphology, syntax, narrative). And given that she's having so many issues at these higher levels, it makes you wonder if there are holes as you back up. It's just something to check, because you can do the intervention yourself. You may find you get language and phonemic awareness breakthroughs by working on the *auditory* processing of language.

https://www.therapro.com/Differential-Processing-Training-Program-Acoustic-Tasks.html  This is part of a 3 book series, highly recommend. You can find samples and see if it would be a fit. You don't technically need testing to make the choice to work on it. It would be an audiologist who specializes in APD if you want the testing. Some SLPs will have the testing as well. Nuts, you may have had an SLP run some of the screening on her and they didn't tell you what it was or what to do with it.

For my ds, working on this very auditory side of how language develops filled in the holes. Remember, the brain learns language parts to whole, so any glitches in the early steps make a cascade of problems. So now that he is processing pitch/prosody, processing words as having parts (phonemes and morphemes), etc. his brain is READY to process language in terms of syntax and verb tenses. You can go for higher level skills till you're blue in the face but sometimes you have holes. You may need to back up and fill them in to go forward and the school DOESN'T DO IT. They don't have time.

Edited June 12, 2021 by PeterPan