Graduation ? (touchy subject)

[Faith-manor]

6 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

At what point, though, does the valedictorian accept that he/she is not simply representing himself/herself? They stand on the stage and address their peers, yet not all of their peers share the same values, goals, experiences, etc. Yet they are sharing the same event of graduating and the same step of finishing something and starting something new. I have heard some outstanding commencement speeches (the best one given by the head librarian at a university - she was fantastic!) and all were encouraging and spoke to the group as a whole. There was no singling out of issues, no voicing personal opinions in the way I've seen the last few years.

Because sometimes one's conscience in the matter actually trumps everyone else's delicate sensibilities. This has been an age old problem. Graduates have been going off script and using their first platform for ever being able to openly speak out for decades. If administrators don't like it, they can end the tradition of valedictory addresses. That said, the younger generations are not as conservative as gen X and boomers. She probably represented the beliefs of a LOT more students than some here would suggest, and that is the real rub. That is the angst. People do not like it when the next generation stirs the pot. They want them to go along with the flow and not make waves.

Well, I look at the world these kids, my kids, are inheriting and I don't blame them one bit for using any platform they can find to speak their minds.

My speech was absolutely HATED by the principal, the parents on the bleechers. It received a standing ovation by the student body and what I said to them about the failures of the education system and the disaster that Reagonomics was going to create for us was spot on, dead on. It was my first and by extension, my peers first chance to be a voice. And sure, our parents and everyone else just dismissed me as an inappropriate little jerk, and totally dissed their kids for their response to my speech, not one damn thing changed at that school. It continued to become a steadily worsening black hole of education nothingness and psychological abuse to the point that today I would not entrust that high school with the well being of my dog for a day, and if anything is nothing more than a factory for turning out traumatized abuse victims.

I see it very differently from most folks on this board because I am for a constitutional amendment for a bill of rights for kids. I think the way children are treated in general in this nation is shameful to say the least and I am especially sick of the abuse heaped on them at school. So I have a very different view of it. 

Actually, given that many schools have more than one 4.0+ student due to AP's and honor classes, and the valedictorian is chosen by a popularity contest among the faculty, I'd be all for eliminating the whole dumb tradition anyway. 

[ktgrok]

10 hours ago, TechWife said:

For me, it isn't about first amendment rights, but about being appropriate for the situation at hand. In the working world, or even in university, one doesn't go to a meeting where they are on the agenda to talk about subject A and talk about subject B instead unless it's a flat out emergency of some sort.

You do if you are the CEO. If it is your meeting you can.

And even if you can't, she's not in the working world. 

10 hours ago, Terabith said:

Even if I don't think what they did was appropriate, the consequence of *withholding a diploma* is huge and permanent and ridiculous.  

It's insane. 

6 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

At what point, though, does the valedictorian accept that he/she is not simply representing himself/herself? They stand on the stage and address their peers, yet not all of their peers share the same values, goals, experiences, etc. Yet they are sharing the same event of graduating and the same step of finishing something and starting something new. I have heard some outstanding commencement speeches (the best one given by the head librarian at a university - she was fantastic!) and all were encouraging and spoke to the group as a whole. There was no singling out of issues, no voicing personal opinions in the way I've seen the last few years.

I have never once considered that the valedictorian is speaking FOR the other students, but TO them. I've never thought of the person as representing the other students. 

6 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

But if (as a previous poster pointed out, more details are needed in the story) one of the rules was no flags, then it's no flags. Or if mortarboards were allowed to be decorated, then that's it. Heritage, social issues, etc. aside, I don't see why guidelines/rules such as those cannot be followed. It could have been a rule of nothing on any mortarboards (which would eliminate a lot of fun messages I remember seeing - creativity at it's best!). Students were given parameters - why not respect them? In this situation I'm more concerned with a student's blatant disregard for commencement rules, which were not overly burdensome or ridiculous, and how he carried it out than with him wanting to acknowledge his heritage.

How about sit ins - those break the rules. Breaking rules as a form of civil disobedience is often seen as a good thing. 

[Murphy101]

I’d be thrilled if they stopped the valedictorian speeches entirely.  Just take the great grades and leave already.   I do not think someone should have to sit through a fellow student’s rant to graduate.  And I’m sure it made all the pro life students feel real great to have the staff and classmates cheer her. But hey she got her 15 minutes of fame and that’s what really matters.  Bah. Humbug.

[livetoread]

Activists ruffle feathers and create controversy. They disrupt the status quo and make people uncomfortable. They certainly don't follow rules. I think if a society has too many activists, there is chaos (rules matter) but any healthy society needs enough activists to keep us thinking and hopefully changing to become better. If activists stuck to making sure they were following the rules and being socially appropriate in the right time and place, very little change would ever happen.

By personality, I am most comfortable following rules and being socially appropriate, so I'm a struggling activist, but even though they make me uncomfortable, I'm glad activists are out there doing their thing. Change is messy and they cross lines I disagree with at times, but that's been true of every change movement. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences for the rule breaking. The consequences should not be over the top though.

Edited June 6, 2021 by livetoread

[TechWife]

13 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

You do if you are the CEO. If it is your meeting you can.

And even if you can't, she's not in the working world. 

It's insane. 

I have never once considered that the valedictorian is speaking FOR the other students, but TO them. I've never thought of the person as representing the other students. 

How about sit ins - those break the rules. Breaking rules as a form of civil disobedience is often seen as a good thing. 

My husband runs a lot of meetings. It's pretty much what he does all day long. He also gives a lot of conference keynote speeches &  seminars, at both internal and external events.  All of these meetings, speeches and seminars are on his areas of expertise. That is what he is hired to do - lead in and speak about his areas of expertise. These tasks are among his primary job responsibilities. He works for an international company. He has been in meetings with the CEO/President of the company he works for. If he were to go off topic to promote a cause he personally believes in that has nothing to do with the subject at hand he would no longer be invited to give keynotes or seminars. Because he would be failing to fulfill his primary job responsibilities, he would be fired. I have no doubt about it. I also believe that if the President/CEO of the company were to do the same thing, that person would be fired by the Board of Directors.  If he were to simply go off topic and speak about a tangential topic, for example, if he was supposed to speak about vanilla ice cream and decided to speak about chocolate ice cream instead, he would need to, in the course of the speech or conversation, tie the reason he did so back to the original topic. If he was supposed to speak about vanilla ice cream and instead chose to speak about his favorite 80's hair band, he would be pulled aside and asked if he was okay. If he did this consistently, he would be fired and wouldn't be invited to speak at any more conferences. There are consequences to actions, even at the highest levels of corporations.

As far as sit ins and other forms of civil disobedience, yes, it is often a good thing. To be effective, the civil disobedience needs to be related to the problem it is addressing. A sit in at a Dean of Student's office to object to a change in rules regarding campus clubs or boycotting  the bus system to demonstrate against racist laws concerning the bus system. Both of those are appropriate. A sit in to demonstrate the change in club rules at the Athletic Director's office would draw raised eyebrows and laughter. A boycott of restaurants would have no effect on the bus system laws.

[pinball]

With no comment on the particulars of these 2 specific situations:

If a school is having a graduation ceremony...people need to agree to the components of the ceremony.

otherwise, it has the potential to break down into a free for all.

Everyone agrees to wear a certain thing...but what if I don’t want to wear a gown? I want to wear my bathing suit! Or if I don’t want to wear a blue gown? I want to wear a tie dye gown!  Or if I don’t want to wear the cap...I want to wear a Florida Marlins snapback cap!

Everyone agrees to walk into a certain song. No, I want to run in. I want my own song. I want carry my best friend in on my shoulders...

Everyone agrees to sit silently while people talk...no, I will talk to my friends and family bc the speaker is boring. Or I hate the speaker so I will stand up and turn my back. Or I will BOOOOOO. Or heckle.

Everyone agrees to walk across the stage, take their diploma, shake the person’s hand and exit the stage. Well, no. I’m gonna do cartwheels across the stage. I’m NOT going to shake the person’s hand, I’m going to purposefully and exaggeratingly pull my hand away from his and then run my hand through my hair and smirk at the audience bc everyone hates him

Everyone agrees to “hold all applause until all graduates receive their diploma” No, I’m going yell for my kid. And his best friend and his girlfriend. And then I’m gonna talk the rest of the time...

Ceremonies are ceremonial. It’s OK not to like them. It’s OK not to participate. But to pick and choose which parts to cooperate with seems wrong when you are there voluntarily.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Innisfree said:

From the same article I quoted earlier,

So, she generated a lot of publicity. No, the legislature isn't changing its mind, but this is one way political change happens: by bringing an issue to people's attention.

Since she was cheered by her classmates, she may have been representing them more than the school realized. Maybe she spoke about a concern they shared.

I understand what bothers everyone about this, but I don't think this is the first time someone has used the valedictory platform to bring attention to an issue. Presidents routinely do the same when they speak, don't they? Their audience isn't likely completely in agreement, either. And yes, a president of the United States is not the same as a valedictorian,  but both have been asked to speak, and both have used the occasion for their own purposes. If the administration wants only approved messages, they'd better get them on video ahead of time.

What about the students who feel differently? What about the students (I imagine there must be some) who are happy about that law and hope it succeeds through appeals? 

Valedictorians are not elected to speak by an election of their peers. They are chosen by the school administrators as representing the most academically successful student in that grade. I agree that Presidents do this, but being elected (supposedly) means more people agree with that guy than the other guy. (Or lady. We can hope.) 

If it were fine to co-opt the platform for one’s own issue de jour, then why not submit that in the prepared speech? 

[catz]

2 minutes ago, TechWife said:

My husband runs a lot of meetings. It's pretty much what he does all day long. He also gives a lot of conference keynote speeches &  seminars, at both internal and external events.  All of these meetings, speeches and seminars are on his areas of expertise.  

I really don't understand the comparisons of a student and valedictorian speaking at a school, especially a public school, to a person literally hired and paid to do a particular job and who CHOSE to accept that job.   Or someone volunteering at an organization they chose to dedicate time to.  The expectation that a young adult  at a public school should always stay in their box and make nice is just foreign to me.  

I'd have no problem if this were a young person using their platform for pro-life or whatever.  The thing is there are natural consequences to your actions.  Especially when you go viral.  Some doors in the future may be closed to you.  Some friendships may be lost.  People may protest in front of your house.  It may open other doors.  CEOs of companies suffer natural consequences when they say dumb stuff too.  Which they do at times.  Sometimes people lose their job for loudly representing an angle their company doesn't like and gets their company negative publicity.  The valedictorian position is usually the result of some mathematical calculation and your diploma is a result of completing your school's graduation requirements in good standing, so I guess I don't see it makes sense or even within the rights of a public school to deny someone either of these things.  I would be completely fine with schools dropping that designation because it is pretty meaningless most of the time IMO.  It certainly was at my own school.  Interrupting and escorting these people out of the ceremony would be fine.  There may be other consequences to the ceremony because of that choice too.

I think you can argue against the young woman, however, she is getting a lot of attention and provoking conversations.  Listening to someone else's opinion actually doesn't hurt you.  I think the thought that graduation ceremonies should be this moment you cherish and reflect on forever is a bit over the top.  I cannot tell you remotely what was said at my own high school or college graduation ceremonies.  Guess the speakers didn't ring for me.  

For the guy with the flag, they should have enforced and been consistent from the get go if they want to be strict about their dress code.  And another country's flag or pride in your personal story or heritage does not take anything away from the American flag or say anything about their own feelings about this country.  

[Murphy101]

41 minutes ago, pinball said:

With no comment on the particulars of these 2 specific situations:

If a school is having a graduation ceremony...people need to agree to the components of the ceremony.

otherwise, it has the potential to break down into a free for all.

Everyone agrees to wear a certain thing...but what if I don’t want to wear a gown? I want to wear my bathing suit! Or if I don’t want to wear a blue gown? I want to wear a tie dye gown!  Or if I don’t want to wear the cap...I want to wear a Florida Marlins snapback cap!

Everyone agrees to walk into a certain song. No, I want to run in. I want my own song. I want carry my best friend in on my shoulders...

Everyone agrees to sit silently while people talk...no, I will talk to my friends and family bc the speaker is boring. Or I hate the speaker so I will stand up and turn my back. Or I will BOOOOOO. Or heckle.

Everyone agrees to walk across the stage, take their diploma, shake the person’s hand and exit the stage. Well, no. I’m gonna do cartwheels across the stage. I’m NOT going to shake the person’s hand, I’m going to purposefully and exaggeratingly pull my hand away from his and then run my hand through my hair and smirk at the audience bc everyone hates him

Everyone agrees to “hold all applause until all graduates receive their diploma” No, I’m going yell for my kid. And his best friend and his girlfriend. And then I’m gonna talk the rest of the time...

Ceremonies are ceremonial. It’s OK not to like them. It’s OK not to participate. But to pick and choose which parts to cooperate with seems wrong when you are there voluntarily.

This is where I’m at.  If they want a platform - there’s other options. But don’t crap on everyone else’s ceremony to make it all about some individual and what they want to do for themselves.

[ktgrok]

I should clarify - I don't think this was a great idea by this student. 

But I also don't think rule following is the reason why, or because she is speaking on behalf the kids or the school. More because I think the kids should remember this day for their graduation, not for controversy. 

[Kassia]

47 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I should clarify - I don't think this was a great idea by this student. 

But I also don't think rule following is the reason why, or because she is speaking on behalf the kids or the school. More because I think the kids should remember this day for their graduation, not for controversy. 

 I don't even remember my high school graduation ceremony!  If something like that happened at our ceremony, I would definitely remember it!  😛

[Alicia64]

Have to jump in and say, "wow" re: your being valedictorian. That's huge!!

[KSera]

5 hours ago, Innisfree said:

True, of course. Fwiw, though, I think that's precisely how the young woman feels about the moment in time when she had a platform to speak: that it is an emergency.

This post caused me to do a thought experiment to see how I felt about this depending on what topic I imagined the speaker speaking about. I found the subject did affect my feeling about it. I imagined if this student lived in a state that has just passed some significant gun control measures—banning assault rifles, background checks and waiting periods, red flag laws, registration requirements. A whole, sweeping package. I can imagine there being pro gun people who would consider that a dire emergency, and a graduate could similarly go off script and make their speech about the importance of being armed to protect their family and how important guns were to their culture and besides, they just love guns and should be able to have as many as they want, etc, etc. Does it feel just the same to everyone thinking off of that had been the script? Maybe I’m the only one who finds certain topics would make me more upset than others to have to sit through at my/my kids’ graduation 🤷‍♀️. I don’t know. I’m not even saying I think she was wrong to do it, just sharing honestly that I think how much someone agrees with her topic might have an influence. 

I saw mention of tennis shoes, but didn’t ever see the story the young man who wore the wrong shoes to graduation shared. Was that shared here or elsewhere?

A student was barred from graduation for wearing the wrong shoes. So a teacher gave him the shoes off his own feet.

Talk about totally ridiculous. 

[Dmmetler]

I've been to a lot of graduations (side effect of being in band in high school and wind symphony in college, and then being college faculty for a time). I cannot remember ANY speeches by anyone, anywhere. I am not expecting the speeches at L's grad next week to be at all memorable, either (although I am glad that rather than having one graduate speak, they had the kids record short videos talking about homeschooling and what their education meant to them, and will be sharing those at the graduation instead-picking a valedictorian out of a group of homeschoolers would be kind of like finding a needle in a haystack). 

 

I think we've managed to make graduations so ceremonial that they are no longer memorable. Maybe students who "go off the rails" just want something to remember that doesn't blur. 

[MercyA]

12 hours ago, Frances said:

I’m not sure this type of thing routinely shows up on diplomas or transcripts. It didn’t on mine. 

Same, as salutatorian.

It never in a million years would have occurred to me to use my speech to talk about anything other than our class and our futures. That said, I was naive, uninformed, and self-absorbed in high school. I definitely would be tempted to use the platform differently now!

Regardless of whether I agree with this particular young woman (guessing I don't), I like that young adults seem much more concerned about the world and about others now. And I dislike requiring conformity. And I can't fault anyone for following their conscience.

Edited June 6, 2021 by MercyA

[J-rap]

I think the point of the graduation ceremony is that all graduates are celebrated.  Therefore, I think the valedictorian should speak for everyone, not on a controversial matter that might leave out half the student body.  

I absolutely support activists (and personally very much support the valedictorian's views), but the high school graduation ceremony is unique and special.  I think there's a valuable skill to be learned in not ignoring what you absolutely believe is important yet wording it in a way that all people feel inspired and no one feels shut down.  That usually means looking at an even bigger picture instead of a specific topic.  That's not an easy thing to do, but I think that method can sometimes knock down even more barriers and get even more people thinking.

There's a place and time for activism no matter what (knowing you are also then building up enemies), but there's also a time for peacemaking.  I do not mean giving up and giving in, but starting with commonalities and then placing some seeds of thoughts that get people thinking on the way to a much larger goal that the vast majority of people share.

 

[Murphy101]

I think if the speeches can be about anything based on taking advantage of the platform while they have it, then there is zero reason that the audience should not be allowed to get up and leave in protest, drown out with boos or their own opinions.

Either it’s a ceremony for a specific event or a free for all protest rally. Pick one.

As for dress code. I think it’s stupid at a graduation where everyone is literally covered from head to ankle in a cap and mumu-ish gown and for the vast majority of the ceremony you can’t see below anyone’s waist anyways. 

I think ours said girls had to wear skirts or dresses with dress shoes. I wore shorts and a tank top bc it was hot as hell under that thing at the indoor arena it was held at. One of the staff asked what I was wearing, like they asked everyone as they came from the gown changing area, but I arrived with my gown on to avoid flaunting my comfy clothing,  and I just looked at him and asked if he was asking to look under my gown.  He had the sense to realize that sounded super awkward and not okay and wandered off muttering about mouthing teens. LOL

[MercyA]

4 hours ago, Joker2 said:

So, ds hasn’t stood for or participated in the Pledge of Allegiance for several years now. It’s something he feels strongly about. During high school he was one of several who never stood for it in classes, which was always allowed. Prior to his graduation ceremony students were told they had to at least stand and pretend in order to graduate and were told not too embarrass the school. Ds was the only one who still stayed in his seat for it during the ceremony. Fortunately, they didn’t actually stick to their word but we would have fought it hard if they had tried. Neither dh, a Marine Corps veteran, nor myself were upset with him at all for following his conscience.

Good for him! 👍 It is completely and utterly ridiculous and infuriating that they required this of the students. And honestly I think anyone who is upset by it doesn't understand the concepts of free speech and freedom of conscience.

[catz]

5 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I think if the speeches can be about anything based on taking advantage of the platform while they have it, then there is zero reason that the audience should not be allowed to get up and leave in protest, drown out with boos or their own opinions.

 

I actually think that would be fine.  If a group of grads wanted to walk out or boo a valedictorian speech, why not?  To me these are all very mild forms of protest.  I just don't get wanting every single one of these events to just be generic forgettable clones of the last.  I think schools would do better to let the students have some input and expression at these events and they would have less problem.  Or just not bother.  I certainly would have be a-ok not to participate in graduation ceremonies.  

The story about the kid and the shoes is absolutely ridiculous.  Who cares what his shoes look like.  Seriously.

[rebcoola]

I didn't go to my Graduation ceremony because by that time I had done color guard for the last three that not only were they long, and boring. The speeches were identical each year and obviously controlled by administration.  Kind of ironic if any of the students had repurposed a paper the way they were forced to do with these speeches, they would have been guilty of plagiarism in class.  

If I had been a speaker I can guarantee I would have  gone off script. I imagine for these young people their main thought was this is my chance to be heard in front of a large audience.  Which is unlikely to happen ever again.

I have repeatedly told my kids I expect if they are chosen to speak, I fully expect them to pull a "Mama Mia, here we go again"  

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by rebcoola

[BusyMom5]

I think it shows a disrespect for your audience.  They came for a graduation,  not a sermon from a naive 18 year old who thinks they understand the world, yet has never had to support themselves, but still thinks they have wisdom to give.  (This goes for all religions, political parties, causes, etc.). 

Light-hearted remembrances from years past, a toast to the future, well wishes for all- the end.  Graduation ceremonies are long and often boring.   Everyone attending just wants to see their kid cross the stage- they aren't interested in the songs, speeches, and rarely the awards (our school now has separate awards ceremonies- academic snd sports).  The gym is hot and stuffy, some people had to bring toddlers and babies, keep it short!  

I think these kids are just clueless- and we need to stop giving them a National platform or there will be more trying to get that spotlight.  The things they speak of are often very complex- and they just aren't at a stage in life to understand those complexities.  As for abortion, I told my girls they can't really have an informed opinion until they have kids,  have friends who have compicated pregnancy, knew women with health issues related to pregnancy, those who have struggled with infertility, even for myself its a complicated issue.  I am personally opposed to it, but do not agree with legislation banning it nc i know there are those who need it for their own health.  I think its ridiculous that we don't provide more education and birth control.  No way would I care what an 18 year old thinks.  

[Murphy101]

14 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I just don't get wanting every single one of these events to just be generic forgettable clones of the last.

Because traditions and milestone ceremonies are also part of cultural unity.   People in a shared community need to be able to set aside all the other crap occasionally to simply celebrate their milestones together.

We do this all the time. 

For example, it wouldn’t be deemed acceptable to use a baby shower or wedding toast as a personal platform just because they have a captive audience.  It would be seen as super rude.  Because it is. 

The memorable thing is simply that for this moment in life, everyone was able to come together and just honor their shared milestone event. This is no small thing for fostering community.  Did her community come together or further apart at this ceremony because of her speech? I suspect further apart.
 

 

[Frances]

43 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I think if the speeches can be about anything based on taking advantage of the platform while they have it, then there is zero reason that the audience should not be allowed to get up and leave in protest, drown out with boos or their own opinions.

Either it’s a ceremony for a specific event or a free for all protest rally. Pick one.

As for dress code. I think it’s stupid at a graduation where everyone is literally covered from head to ankle in a cap and mumu-ish gown and for the vast majority of the ceremony you can’t see below anyone’s waist anyways. 

I think ours said girls had to wear skirts or dresses with dress shoes. I wore shorts and a tank top bc it was hot as hell under that thing at the indoor arena it was held at. One of the staff asked what I was wearing, like they asked everyone as they came from the gown changing area, but I arrived with my gown on to avoid flaunting my comfy clothing,  and I just looked at him and asked if he was asking to look under my gown.  He had the sense to realize that sounded super awkward and not okay and wandered off muttering about mouthing teens. LOL

I don’t think there was anything preventing anyone from leaving or booing or any other reaction.

I agree with you that a dress code seems silly with the gowns. At the most, it shouldn’t go beyond the regular school dress code. No sandals? Please, that’s what I wear with skirts. I don’t even own a pair of dress shoes that could be worn with a skirt or dress.

[Frances]

9 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

I think it shows a disrespect for your audience.  They came for a graduation,  not a sermon from a naive 18 year old who thinks they understand the world, yet has never had to support themselves, but still thinks they have wisdom to give.  (This goes for all religions, political parties, causes, etc.). 

Light-hearted remembrances from years past, a toast to the future, well wishes for all- the end.  Graduation ceremonies are long and often boring.   Everyone attending just wants to see their kid cross the stage- they aren't interested in the songs, speeches, and rarely the awards (our school now has separate awards ceremonies- academic snd sports).  The gym is hot and stuffy, some people had to bring toddlers and babies, keep it short!  

I think these kids are just clueless- and we need to stop giving them a National platform or there will be more trying to get that spotlight.  The things they speak of are often very complex- and they just aren't at a stage in life to understand those complexities.  As for abortion, I told my girls they can't really have an informed opinion until they have kids,  have friends who have compicated pregnancy, knew women with health issues related to pregnancy, those who have struggled with infertility, even for myself its a complicated issue.  I am personally opposed to it, but do not agree with legislation banning it nc i know there are those who need it for their own health.  I think its ridiculous that we don't provide more education and birth control.  No way would I care what an 18 year old thinks.  

I have to disagree with your sweeping opinion of young adults. I’ve personally known and read about some young adults who have done amazing things and on some topics are far more informed than most adults. Just one recent example is a high school student here who did the best reporting in my capitol city on both the complete train wreck that is our current school board (and it seem to have had an effect as new candidates just swept the elections) and the pandemic restrictions/“stolen election” protests at our state Capitol. She not surprisingly won a national journalism award. Of course the current person in charge of our school board thought she shouldn’t be recognized for the award because her articles were “too political”. (They actually weren’t, they just exposed the funding and connections many were trying to hide). And ironically, there is an abortion connection here. The current board is dominated by people who were almost completely funded by pro-life PACS. Of course they tried to hide it until it was exposed because what in the heck does that have to do with a school board? So yeah, people didn’t like having that information hidden. Some of the same people also had connections to white suprematists groups and there was a black face incident during an online meeting.

[Corraleno]

At my college graduation there were tie-dyed gowns, painted gowns, gowns that were cut up and sewn back together in creative ways, mortarboards with objects glued all over them, etc. The most extreme was an art student who cut his gown into 3" strips all the way up to the chest seam, wore it with a speedo and cowboy boots, and covered his hair in pink gel. The graduating class had voted on a list of people we wanted as potential graduation speakers, but the college president ignored the list and invited a local newspaper editor whose views were pretty much the opposite of everyone we'd requested but who happened to be the president's best buddy. Student government responded by buying cases of bubbles to hand out, and we ignored the speech and created a massive cloud of bubbles when he was speaking.

I'm 100% in favor of giving students far more input and control over not only their graduation ceremony, but the educational process in general. I could not disagree more with the idea that graduation ceremonies should be totally formulaic and 100% controlled by the same people that have micromanaged every aspect of HS kids lives for the past four years. If graduation ceremonies are all about "making memories," then let them be memorable. I have no memory whatsoever of my HS graduation, but I remember my college graduation ceremony in great detail, and with great fondness, many decades later. Because it was ours.

 

[pinball]

4 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

At my college graduation there were tie-dyed gowns, painted gowns, gowns that were cut up and sewn back together in creative ways, mortarboards with objects glued all over them, etc. The most extreme was an art student who cut his gown into 3" strips all the way up to the chest seam, wore it with a speedo and cowboy boots, and covered his hair in pink gel. The graduating class had voted on a list of people we wanted as potential graduation speakers, but the college president ignored the list and invited a local newspaper editor whose views were pretty much the opposite of everyone we'd requested but who happened to be the president's best buddy. Student government responded by buying cases of bubbles to hand out, and we ignored the speech and created a massive cloud of bubbles when he was speaking.

I'm 100% in favor of giving students far more input and control over not only their graduation ceremony, but the educational process in general. I could not disagree more with the idea that graduation ceremonies should be totally formulaic and 100% controlled by the same people that have micromanaged every aspect of HS kids lives for the past four years. If graduation ceremonies are all about "making memories," then let them be memorable. I have no memory whatsoever of my HS graduation, but I remember my college graduation ceremony in great detail, and with great fondness, many decades later. Because it was ours.

 

That’s great.

i agree that the graduates should have a say in the ceremony. Actually, they should make most of the decisions, IMO

But you can’t make everyone happy, so there will always be someone or a group who want it their way...and will do what they want  just because.

[rebcoola]

8 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

At my college graduation there were tie-dyed gowns, painted gowns, gowns that were cut up and sewn back together in creative ways, mortarboards with objects glued all over them, etc. The most extreme was an art student who cut his gown into 3" strips all the way up to the chest seam, wore it with a speedo and cowboy boots, and covered his hair in pink gel. The graduating class had voted on a list of people we wanted as potential graduation speakers, but the college president ignored the list and invited a local newspaper editor whose views were pretty much the opposite of everyone we'd requested but who happened to be the president's best buddy. Student government responded by buying cases of bubbles to hand out, and we ignored the speech and created a massive cloud of bubbles when he was speaking.

I'm 100% in favor of giving students far more input and control over not only their graduation ceremony, but the educational process in general. I could not disagree more with the idea that graduation ceremonies should be totally formulaic and 100% controlled by the same people that have micromanaged every aspect of HS kids lives for the past four years. If graduation ceremonies are all about "making memories," then let them be memorable. I have no memory whatsoever of my HS graduation, but I remember my college graduation ceremony in great detail, and with great fondness, many decades later. Because it was ours.

 

That's fantastic I would actually go that kind of ceremony.

I really don't care about my kids high school graduation.  It's not an achievement  for my gifted middle class kids.  It's a milestone and I think if it isn't going to be memorable in some way why bother.

[hippymamato3]

14 hours ago, TechWife said:

For me, it isn't about first amendment rights, but about being appropriate for the situation at hand. In the working world, or even in university, one doesn't go to a meeting where they are on the agenda to talk about subject A and talk about subject B instead unless it's a flat out emergency of some sort.

I think that's exactly how this girl felt - and many others also feel this way. 

[Innisfree]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

What about the students who feel differently? What about the students (I imagine there must be some) who are happy about that law and hope it succeeds through appeals? 

Valedictorians are not elected to speak by an election of their peers. They are chosen by the school administrators as representing the most academically successful student in that grade. I agree that Presidents do this, but being elected (supposedly) means more people agree with that guy than the other guy. (Or lady. We can hope.) 

If it were fine to co-opt the platform for one’s own issue de jour, then why not submit that in the prepared speech? 

Yeah, I understand why it irks people, and I'm lukewarm on the concept of co-opting the platform. My own, personal temperament is more like this:

4 hours ago, livetoread said:

By personality, I am most comfortable following rules and being socially appropriate, so I'm a struggling activist, but even though they make me uncomfortable, I'm glad activists are out there doing their thing. Change is messy and they cross lines I disagree with at times, but that's been true of every change movement. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences for the rule breaking. The consequences should not be over the top though.

I probably wouldn't be the one up there subbing in a new script. I'm also grateful there are people who have more gumption than I do, even if they occasionally overstep boundaries and speak out of turn, because their temperament is more likely to effect change than mine is. 

Lots of valedictorians actually are elected these days, aren't they?

I'm serious that school administrators need prerecorded messages if they want control over content.

As for graduation being an occasion for all the students: eh. Yeah. I guess? Students routinely protest speakers ahead of time because of their positions on issues or their past behavior. I doubt the whole student body is in accord on those issues, though. Idk, I think speeches at graduations have been political for too long to get very upset over this one example.

The flag and tennis shoes situations are just silly. Don't have rules about things that don't matter. If you do have rules, be ready to intervene early, and don't make a scene at the last moment with an over-the-top response.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Innisfree

[hippymamato3]

52 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

I think it shows a disrespect for your audience.  They came for a graduation,  not a sermon from a naive 18 year old who thinks they understand the world, yet has never had to support themselves, but still thinks they have wisdom to give.  (This goes for all religions, political parties, causes, etc.). 

Light-hearted remembrances from years past, a toast to the future, well wishes for all- the end.  Graduation ceremonies are long and often boring.   Everyone attending just wants to see their kid cross the stage- they aren't interested in the songs, speeches, and rarely the awards (our school now has separate awards ceremonies- academic snd sports).  The gym is hot and stuffy, some people had to bring toddlers and babies, keep it short!  

I think these kids are just clueless- and we need to stop giving them a National platform or there will be more trying to get that spotlight.  The things they speak of are often very complex- and they just aren't at a stage in life to understand those complexities.  As for abortion, I told my girls they can't really have an informed opinion until they have kids,  have friends who have compicated pregnancy, knew women with health issues related to pregnancy, those who have struggled with infertility, even for myself its a complicated issue.  I am personally opposed to it, but do not agree with legislation banning it nc i know there are those who need it for their own health.  I think its ridiculous that we don't provide more education and birth control.  No way would I care what an 18 year old thinks.  

Wow. 

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, BusyMom5 said:

 As for abortion, I told my girls they can't really have an informed opinion until they have kids,  have friends who have compicated pregnancy, knew women with health issues related to pregnancy, those who have struggled with infertility...

 No way would I care what an 18 year old thinks.  

It is an issue that may directly affect a young woman. She may possibly have friends her age who had to make this kind of decision. She may have been confronted with the issue personally.

18 year old women are absolutely the demographic who NEEDS to have an opinion on the topic ( one way or other), because they are the ones potentially finding themselves pregnant. OTOH, I don't care what individuals think who don't have a uterus.

Edited June 6, 2021 by regentrude

[whitestavern]

31 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

At my college graduation there were tie-dyed gowns, painted gowns, gowns that were cut up and sewn back together in creative ways, mortarboards with objects glued all over them, etc. The most extreme was an art student who cut his gown into 3" strips all the way up to the chest seam, wore it with a speedo and cowboy boots, and covered his hair in pink gel. The graduating class had voted on a list of people we wanted as potential graduation speakers, but the college president ignored the list and invited a local newspaper editor whose views were pretty much the opposite of everyone we'd requested but who happened to be the president's best buddy. Student government responded by buying cases of bubbles to hand out, and we ignored the speech and created a massive cloud of bubbles when he was speaking.

I'm 100% in favor of giving students far more input and control over not only their graduation ceremony, but the educational process in general. I could not disagree more with the idea that graduation ceremonies should be totally formulaic and 100% controlled by the same people that have micromanaged every aspect of HS kids lives for the past four years. If graduation ceremonies are all about "making memories," then let them be memorable. I have no memory whatsoever of my HS graduation, but I remember my college graduation ceremony in great detail, and with great fondness, many decades later. Because it was ours.

 

I think it was rude of you to ignore the speaker and blow bubbles. It’s not the person’s fault—he was chosen to give a speech and likely put in time and effort to do so. 

[Corraleno]

Personally I think the whole valedictorian thing is stupid, but for schools that do it, the whole point is that these students are being singled out as the very best and brightest the school has produced. But then they turn around and insist that these highly intelligent and supposedly well educated students cannot express their own intelligent and informed opinions and must parrot the thoughts and opinions of school administration. Why bother with the charade? And for the record, I don't care if the student opinions are something that I personally agree with. Either let them talk or skip the puppet show.

[katilac]

12 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

I remember the speeches, which were very good, and I remember the school counselor, who was announcing names, saying "Puh-treye-kee-uh" instead of Patricia (my middle name). I looked at her and said, "REALLY???"

The origin story of the famed Key & Peele roll call sketch, lol. 

15 hours ago, TechWife said:

For me, it isn't about first amendment rights, but about being appropriate for the situation at hand. In the working world, or even in university, one doesn't go to a meeting where they are on the agenda to talk about subject A and talk about subject B instead unless it's a flat out emergency of some sort.

We have clearly had vastly different work experiences. 

2 hours ago, KSera said:

 I saw mention of tennis shoes, but didn’t ever see the story the young man who wore the wrong shoes to graduation shared. Was that shared here or elsewhere?

A student was barred from graduation for wearing the wrong shoes. So a teacher gave him the shoes off his own feet.

Talk about totally ridiculous. 

I'm so glad the young man knew he could go to this teacher for help. As his mother said, he thought his shoes met the dress code, but what if she simply could not have afforded new shoes for the occasion? 

Many American schools love to do their part to make sure poor students know, from an early age, that they aren't the desired demographic and that their lives will often be made more difficult for no good reason. Recognition of an earned achievement (high school diploma) will be withheld unless you have a specific type of footwear? Ridiculous. What does one have to do with the other? Who cares what shoes students are wearing in an ocean of caps and gowns? Many young people do not own dress shoes, and buying them for no reason other than a graduation is painful for plenty of families, including many who are not 'poor.' 

2 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

I think if the speeches can be about anything based on taking advantage of the platform while they have it, then there is zero reason that the audience should not be allowed to get up and leave in protest, drown out with boos or their own opinions.

I've been to many graduations, and the audience is of course allowed to get up and leave for any reason whatsoever. Have you actually had that experience? It seems like any method of keeping people from leaving would be a fire hazard. 

If audience members are making so much noise (of any type) that they are drowning out the ceremony, having them warned or escorted out would be at the discretion of the organizers - just as it is to their discretion to cut the mic on a speaker or not. A quick search will show that cutting off the mic of student speakers is as much of an annual tradition as Pomp and Circumstance marches. 

1 hour ago, BusyMom5 said:

I think it shows a disrespect for your audience.  They came for a graduation,  not a sermon from a naive 18 year old who thinks they understand the world, yet has never had to support themselves, but still thinks they have wisdom to give.  

I think these kids are just clueless- and we need to stop giving them a National platform or there will be more trying to get that spotlight.  The things they speak of are often very complex- and they just aren't at a stage in life to understand those complexities.  As for abortion, I told my girls they can't really have an informed opinion until they have kids,  have friends who have compicated pregnancy, knew women with health issues related to pregnancy, those who have struggled with infertility, even for myself its a complicated issue.  I am personally opposed to it, but do not agree with legislation banning it nc i know there are those who need it for their own health.  I think its ridiculous that we don't provide more education and birth control.  No way would I care what an 18 year old thinks.  

Bolding by me. Age as a prerequisite for having any sort of wisdom is quite a sweeping generalization. You use the words "naive 18 year old" yet you are quite naïve yourself if you think no minors have ever had to support themselves and often others in their family. You are quite naïve if you think no minors have had complex and often brutal experiences that many middle-aged adults have never had. 

And minors can, of course, not only have friends and relatives with complicated pregnancies and related health issues, they can be the people with complicated pregnancies and related health issues. 

[WildflowerMom]

Honestly, I think high school graduations are silly.   (Go ahead, throw tomatoes!)    The gowns; the long, boring speeches (by everyone); sitting there while everybody walks across a stage because they're graduating high school, which most everyone does nowadays, and doesn't feel all that 'special' anymore, to be honest.    I think it's a tradition that really could be done away with.  

[Dmmetler]

3 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I think it really is special to some people. Not everyone graduates from high school and it can be seen as a big accomplishment for certain children. 

Personally I find the graduation ceremonies for elementary school and even kindergarten to be completely ridiculous though. DD had a mini-graduation ceremony, with caps and gowns, for pre-school. 

Most Americans don't go to college so high school graduation is the end of their official education so it makes sense to have a ceremony to celebrate it. 

I do hate graduation ceremonies though and would have avoided mine, if I'd had a choice. I always thought of my ceremonies as more for my parents than for me anyway. 

Honestly, the reason my senior is walking in grad next week is for me. I want something to celebrate the end of our homeschooling. It’s not the end of education, but it is a huge change. 

[ktgrok]

Can I suggest we just get rid of these celebrations, lol? I hated doing it when I was the graduate, I hated it at my sister's multiple graduations, I didn't miss it at ALL when my oldest chose not to partake in a graduation, etc. Now, this may be colored by graduating classes that are at least 500 students...so take for FREAKING EVER. I have no idea how anyone enjoys listening to HUNDREDS of names being read for an hour. Blergh. 

[ktgrok]

I will also admit my original feeling on her doing this was "meh, whatever, you go girl" but a statewide homeschool grad ceremony a few years ago had a speech (from the organizers) that was anti LGBT in a very offensive way and I thought that was terrible. Now, that it was from an organizer and not a kid makes it worse in my opinion, since the organizer DOES without a doubt represent the organization. But thinking about that does make me realize how I see it when the speaker is on the "other side"...so thank you Hive for making me dig deeper on this. 

Because of how that speech at the homeschool graduation really ruined grad night for many kids and families, I can see how Graduation is not the best place for such a controversial subject.

And I still hate graduations. Period. That won't change, lol. Unless I ever get involved in one that is like, 25 kids or less. Then okay. Big ones? NOPE. 

[WildflowerMom]

30 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Can I suggest we just get rid of these celebrations, lol? I hated doing it when I was the graduate, I hated it at my sister's multiple graduations, I didn't miss it at ALL when my oldest chose not to partake in a graduation, etc. Now, this may be colored by graduating classes that are at least 500 students...so take for FREAKING EVER. I have no idea how anyone enjoys listening to HUNDREDS of names being read for an hour. Blergh. 

Ours was huge, too.    It was an absolutely ridiculous experience.   for example, the girls were told we had to wear white dresses AND white shoes or we couldn't walk-- we had GOWNS on people!  No one could tell what we were wearing!   So all the girls had to go buy a white dress and white shoes, in addition to the money they'd spent on that stupid cap and gown.   I wish I'd been as ballsy as I am now and told them to shove it.  

26 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I will also admit my original feeling on her doing this was "meh, whatever, you go girl" but a statewide homeschool grad ceremony a few years ago had a speech (from the organizers) that was anti LGBT in a very offensive way and I thought that was terrible. Now, that it was from an organizer and not a kid makes it worse in my opinion, since the organizer DOES without a doubt represent the organization. But thinking about that does make me realize how I see it when the speaker is on the "other side"...so thank you Hive for making me dig deeper on this. 

Because of how that speech at the homeschool graduation really ruined grad night for many kids and families, I can see how Graduation is not the best place for such a controversial subject.

And I still hate graduations. Period. That won't change, lol. Unless I ever get involved in one that is like, 25 kids or less. Then okay. Big ones? NOPE. 

Yeah, being happy about these types of speeches only works when you agree with the message.   I can guarantee people would flip their lids if she'd spoke against about BLM or gay rights.    This is why i always roll my eyes when people say, 'bring back prayer in schools'.   Um, ok, what if someone is Muslim?  What if they're Hindi?    I bet y'all will be b*tching something fierce then.   

(Btw, I still don't blame that girl for her speech!   Like I said above, I wish I'd been ballsy, too.  Good for her and the boy with the flag!! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼But it does make me laugh that people applaud the content, because my oh my, could it have gone another way soooooo easily.)

[Melissa Louise]

It's not really very controversial that a young woman, about to enter adult life, might have an opinion about restricting women's access to abortion? Is it? I mean, I understand that for the % of people who are firmly pro-birth (and the even tinier% of those who are pro-life!) that they would strenuously disagree. And the problem for them I'd they have no right of reply. But for the majority of people, is it truly controversial? 

 

[Moonhawk]

At this age, you are truly the hero in your story, and many (most?) kids/young adults still don't see the larger picture of how their actions are going to come across, or the poise to explain themselves/smooth the situation. [Speaking generally, not about these 2 examples]

I would have been very uncomfortable if our valedictorian got up and spoke for us and gave the speech the young woman gave, because as the valedictorian she is speaking for the class. At least, that was my understanding: the valedictorian is there as a representative of the graduating class, not as an individual speaking only on behalf of themselves. I would have probably felt compelled to leave, or felt guilty later that I didn't.

On the other hand, any subject she spoke about that wasn't just "rah rah go us" was going to tick off someone or another. I think she gave a heartfelt speech on a topic that meant a lot to her, and I understand that she felt so attacked and robbed of rights that it was worth the rule breaking. At times we're called on to act courageously in the face of adversity: I think she felt this was her moment and her way to do so. So I won't condemn her for doing it, as much as I'm glad she was not speaking on my behalf. 

If any classmate could get up and give their own speech, regardless of grades or parent donor or sports record, it would feel different. But, it's a graduation, not open mic night.

So, my solution is to end all of the speeches and add in an ice cream bar instead! (And wait for the anit-icecream pro-cookies crowd to get out their pitchforks, lol)

[BusyMom5]

A lot of you have expressed issue with my opinion, and I want to clarify a few things.  FWIW, I read the speech and I agree with her stance regarding the Heartbeat Bill- her opinion and mine are the same and that is not my issue with this story.  And yes, she does have the right to her opinion, but I do not consider it a fully informed opinion at the age of 18-  her life experiences are limited.  I'm 40 and my views on abortion have flowed and changed a lot in the last 20 years as I can put faces and names to those "what if" situations. I know people who have both decided to terminate a pregnancy and keep a pregnancy to full term with babies who had genetic conditions incompatible with life.  I've known friends who struggled to get PG (and still are).  I’ve known friends who kept a pregnancy and raise kids with severe medical issues until that child dies bc there was never an answer.  I’ve watched friends with stillborn babies. I know friends with difficult pregnancies that almost killed them- who nearly lost those babies.  I've watched friends struggle raising a single baby on their own, and watched several men just look in the opposite direction.  Abortion and pregnancy situations are messy, and to speak about it at a graduation ceremony is callous- thus why I consider her naive and clueless- because the other option is that she didn't care about the feelings of those in her audience.  On this board, and elsewhere online, we put trigger warning when we discuss these issues, because as women who have been through it, we know there can be a lot of pain when we discuss this issue- FROM BOTH SIDES.  In that audience there was probably someone who recently lost a baby,  someone struggling with infertility- and they just came to see a brother or cousin graduate- not hear an unsolicited opinion on abortion.  There were probably kids in that class whose 34 year old parents were so proud to see their unintended child graduate.  

I do not think this girl wanted to hurt anyone by giving this speech,  I do believe she is (rightly) worried about women's rights.  When you speak,  your audience matters.   This was not the time or place.  

 

[Melissa Louise]

There's some evidence that routine trigger warnings have unintended effects (further sensitizing  vulnerable people). 

Plenty of 18 yr olds face serious reproductive choices. Idk. Women's rights matter, whether or not it's 'polite'. 

Maybe ppl theoretically aligned with 'safe, legal, rare' should channel the outrage at her speaking into lobbying to change the bill.

[Murphy101]

10 hours ago, Frances said:

I don’t think there was anything preventing anyone from leaving or booing or any other reaction.

I agree with you that a dress code seems silly with the gowns. At the most, it shouldn’t go beyond the regular school dress code. No sandals? Please, that’s what I wear with skirts. I don’t even own a pair of dress shoes that could be worn with a skirt or dress.

My graduation was over a 1000 students. Some schools in my area this year had over 3000 students at their graduation ceremony.  It’s really difficult to just get up and leave in some of the places that have these.  Someone may or may not stop you, even unintentionally.  Such as blocking you with their legs or staff asking students to sit down or whatever.  And that’s not even getting in to how this can create a hostile environment.   I for one am not particularly eager for someone to turn my kids’ graduation ceremony into a spontaneous free for all protest rally. 

[katilac]

8 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

My graduation was over a 1000 students. Some schools in my area this year had over 3000 students at their graduation ceremony.  It’s really difficult to just get up and leave in some of the places that have these.  

If there are thousands of students graduating, then it's a certainty that many people are getting up and leaving just to pee 😄

[Murphy101]

13 minutes ago, katilac said:

If there are thousands of students graduating, then it's a certainty that many people are getting up and leaving just to pee 😄

You aren’t wrong! LOL. But also it can take 10 minutes just to get to the bathroom!  So my point that “just leaving” is not quite as simple as it sounds either. 

[LucyStoner]

Whenever someone is giving a speech there’s always a risk of them going off the intended topic.  Once when I was running fundraising for a local non-profit, the “celebrity” keynote speaker (who is a well known radio personality and author) for the big breakfast fundraiser went totally went off topic and started rambling about legalizing marijuana, which had zip zilch zero to do with our mission.  I had just started the job, so this was not an event I planned but it was a lesson in what can happen when you give people microphones.  

Honestly, this seems like a nothing burger as far as controversies go.  Students often want to stand up for a cause.  Who is more passionately reckless than an 18 year old?  Is anyone harmed by someone saying something at graduation beyond the usual cliches about commencement being a beginning?  I don’t really see the point in depriving people of their diplomas.  It seems needlessly controlling on the part of the school.  IMO, someone sticking some off topic politics into their graduation speech may be common enough that it is a cliche in and of itself.  I agree with whoever said that what was said isn’t going to matter in the coming years.  No one remembers graduation speeches.  Not the ones made by graduates.  Not the ones made by invited dignitaries.  Not the remarks made by the principal.  I am trying to think of what I remember that was said at my high school graduation and I’ve got nothing.  I honestly can’t even remember what I said when I spoke.   

Wait, one speaker made a quip that the generation after Y (this was before millennial replaced Y) would be named something ridiculous like Z (x, y, z).  That’s it- that’s all I remember for what was said.  
 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by LucyStoner

[kiwik]

19 hours ago, Quill said:

I’m not Bakers Dozen, obviously, but I disagreed with the Texas young woman doing that, even though my position on the subject is the same as hers. It’s just not the place. Would you feel differently if the young lady used the valedictorian platform to project a pro-life view? What if she went off-script to say how happy she is that future valedictorians will not be killed off by abortion, due to the law? 

I do not agree with holding her up as a hero, even if my views on abortion are the same as hers. 

But if you believe something strongly anywhere is the place.  I think I'm both cases the schools should shrug and get on with life.  In the great scheme of things what does it matter.  

[Guest]

3 hours ago, kiwik said:

But if you believe something strongly anywhere is the place.  I think I'm both cases the schools should shrug and get on with life.  In the great scheme of things what does it matter.  

No it’s not. That’s exactly what I think is egocentric about it - “Oh, but this issue is really, really important to me!” So what? The platform is not there for the student to foist their really, really important personal views on the listeners, who did not come to graduation to hear that student’s political views. 

What if it were the school principal who did this? What if it were a popular teacher who opened ceremonies and then veered off to talk about gun laws, same sex marriage, policing or legalization of certain drugs? It’s not appropriate. 

 

[Soror]

Meh, schools assert WAY too much control over students. We complain that kids these days can't think and act on their own when they aren't given the opportunity for independence. It drove me nuts when I was in school and it is so much worse now. I find it especially shameful what they did to the kid with the Mexican flag. Either they were on a big power trip and/or had their own agenda. I don't know that I see going off on abortion rights as hugely off field. Generally students speak about their time in school and their hopes and plans for the future- so to me it could be brought in that way.