writing 101 (what would you expect this class to be like?)

[kfeusse]

So, my son, a freshman last year was required to take writing 101 as a prerequisite to the required gen ed writing 102 because he scored low on his English ACT test. 

When I heard that he was taking that class, I thought, great....this will help build his confidence in writing and better prepare him to complete all of the different kinds of writing assignments he will be faced with in college.   I did not expect he would become this stellar writer or anything like that.  I was just hoping for some extra guidance in the all important skill.

This class was a 3 credit class which, with my understanding typically means 3 hours of class time with the prof. 

At the college my kids attend, we were lucky that they had all in person classes all year.  So that was good. 

Well, after the fact, (and after a very poor grade in this class) we learn that the class was not that.   

The first day was a zoom class that wasn't an hour long....more like 30 minutes...and she basically gave the kids a writing assignment due on Friday...and talked at them for a bit.

The 2nd class day wasn't a class day...they were just expected to work on their assignment on their own.

The 3rd class day was finally an in person class...where she just had the kids turn in their writing....asked them if they had any issues with their assignment....that sort of thing.

My son, who struggles with writing....is still struggling with writing.  Now, it could just be my son.  And I am willing to go with that.  He is getting some writing tutoring this summer, so I am hoping that will help him.  But I sort of feel like we are paying for this class twice...once to the college....and once to the tutor....but maybe I was expecting too much from this class.

I am all about college age students being expected to work independently and taking responsibility for their classes and assignments, asking for help when needed and all of that.  So, don't read into this that I am looking for an easy way out for my son.  I am not.  I guess I just thought a class that was designed (and required) to help kids struggling with an important skill like writing would be a bit more "hands on".  Maybe I am wrong in thinking that....and if so, do not hesitate to tell me that.  I can deal with the truth. 😃

So....what do you think? 

Thanks for your insight. 

 

 

[Katy]

I think writing classes in general are a lot like what you describe starting in about 11th grade. If he wants one on one help you should check & see if the school has a writing lab or a tutoring center. 

[Kassia]

Sounds like this was not an effective class at all - no fault of your son.  The instructor should have given detailed instructions and lots of feedback on what was done correctly and what needed to be improved.  I'm sorry it ended up being a waste and I hope the tutoring helps improve his writing skills.

Dd is in college and says the writing quality of the other students is absolutely awful - even in her honors classes.  For group projects, she spends an enormous amount of time fixing the other members' writing so she doesn't get a bad grade.

 

[pinball]

Simply...I agree with you.

Any beginning-type college writing classes I am familiar with have a ton of built in time for both teacher feedback and peer feedback. Most teachers/instructors offer to read or go over major assignments if you go to their office hours. Not so with minor type things...but the minor type things that are graded were things like drafts and easy exercises...so graded Very generously 

im sorry your son had a poor experience!

[happi duck]

What's the course description?  If that was supposed to get students to a certain skill level it didn't seem well structured for that goal.

[kfeusse]

3 minutes ago, happi duck said:

What's the course description?  If that was supposed to get students to a certain skill level it didn't seem well structured for that goal.

ENG 101 Foundations in Writing 3 credit hours This course focuses on helping students develop foundational approaches and processes for writing. Students will learn basic techniques for generating ideas; giving and receiving feedback; adapting rhetorical strategies for audience and context; revising; and editing. Special attention will be given to discussing the origins and application of English language conventions and developing effective revising and editing techniques. This course is required as a prerequisite for ENG 102 for students who score below 18 on the English portion of the ACT or below 435 on the verbal portion of the SAT.

[pinball]

Oh, and credit wise...I think each credit is usually 50 minutes of contact, IME

so a 3 credit class that meets 3 times a week meets for 50 minutes each time

3 credit— 2/week — 75 mins each time ( 1 hr 15 min each time)

3 credit — 1/ week — 150 mins (2 hrs 30 mins)

so a teacher who consistently only teaches 30 mins a day in a 3 day a week class, and then actually has NO class on other days regularly... that is not my experience. And I’d think the students are getting very poor instruction.

However...at the end of the semester, in writing classes where a big project is due...some teachers DO replace all class instruction with individual or group  meetings. But it might only be for a week or 2

[kfeusse]

yeah...I know the 50 minute thing to be true...I guess I was simplifying that by saying three 1 hour sessions....but you are right...technically it is 50 minutes. 

[Danae]

I think we can’t tell from what you’ve described whether or not the class was likely to be effective.  If the instructor spent less time preparing and delivering lectures and more time giving detailed feedback and suggestions for improvement on students’s writing that would be a good thing.  

[pinball]

13 minutes ago, kfeusse said:

yeah...I know the 50 minute thing to be true...I guess I was simplifying that by saying three 1 hour sessions....but you are right...technically it is 50 minutes. 

I understand. I think ending 5 minutes early or late is reasonable once in a while...but 30 minutes of instruction is much too little, as a general rule

[kfeusse]

14 minutes ago, pinball said:

I understand. I think ending 5 minutes early or late is reasonable once in a while...but 30 minutes of instruction is much too little, as a general rule

and not even meeting once a week is also not ok in my book.  Once in a while, sure....if the kids had a big project to work on and they didn't need to meet, but in my opinion, these kids (not only my son) should have met 3x a week....like what we paid for.  Those kids were in that class for a reason, not just because they chose to be there. 

My feeling is this prof used Covid as an excuse to be lazy since the entire campus was in person all year (unless the prof was actually ill or in quarantine), which wasn't the case the for this prof....at least not all semester.  I know for a fact that she wasn't trying to be extra careful because the kids would say she was out and about on campus (often without a mask outside (which was according to the rules)), so it's wasn't' like she was trying to protect someone.  I think she was just being lazy. 

Maybe I am wrong, but from this vantage point, that is what it looks like to me. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Ds’s experience with writing 121 and 122 during covid was that class time was primarily lecture and example time. It was generally 30/50 min 3x a week. There was good feedback on assignments, but it was expected that the student would go to the writing lab on campus if they were struggling significantly.

[rebcoola]

Well I remember my 101 class I took in running start and we were basically given one assignment, some guidance and examples told to turn it in x day, the Prof graded it and put some notes on it and you resubmitted until you got the grade you wanted.  Once you got the graded you wanted you didn't have to come back.  So yeah great class 

[Bootsie]

I am not fully understanding the classs strucutre.  Did the students turn in work on Friday and get feedback on improvement for another assignment?  

I would not expect a three-hour writing course to be a class where the professor lectures for 50 minutes three days a week.  Students must practice and do the writing themselves.   I know many writing courses in which class time is used for students to do some of that.  DS was taking a writing course this past semester that was in person, but many of the days that would traditionally be "write in class" and were working independently they did not attend in person because the students were more comfortable writing in their own environments than sitting in a classroom with a mask and all of the other protocols to do indpendent work.  Is that perhaps what was happending on the second day?

Most colleges have a writing center and provide one-on-one tutoring for these types of issues.  Does your son's college have that?

[elegantlion]

How much help did he ask for? I also have a writing phobic son, but he'd seldom ask for help. I literally told him in his first semester of college to not let his writing instructor know he was homeschooled - we had so many issues with writing while homeschooling.😏 Did your son understand and adapt to feedback given? 

I grade survey level history papers and I give tons of feedback especially on the first paper. Some students don't even read it and make the same mistakes on the second paper, then wonder why their grades are low. Some aren't quite sure what to do with the feedback (I see a lot of grammatical errors, formatting errors, etc.). Students that don't ask for additional help or go to the writing center tend to do about the same each time. 

After grading, I tend to go over mistakes that were made by more than one student - such as improper citations, etc. 

Logic saved my son's writing. He's never going to exceed a maximum word count on a paper, but he know how to be concise and get his point across. 

I do think individual tutoring is best. I hope it is helpful to your son. 

 

[HomeAgain]

I just took a comp 101 class.  It was set up so that the student had be well organized.  The weeks were set up so that over periods of 3 weeks each, a single piece would be produced.  A sample was given, a fill-in-the blanks outline was provided by the teacher for the first week, but the rough draft was peer reviewed and the final piece was graded by the professor.  The professor was only really available during office hours or through email.  He expected the class to utilize any links he posted in the online platform.  Any help beyond that needed to go through the tutoring center at the college.

I can say that even though I was a strong writer in high school, I could not have completed this course satisfactorily.  I would have struggled and gotten a C.  It is only that I was able to look at the syllabus as a whole and work backward from the final assignment that I was able to understand what this professor was going for in each assignment and hit those points intentionally- instead of going through haphazardly and seeing the big picture at the end.  Taking time for the overview also gave me more time to work on later assignments and organize my thoughts, both of which came in handy for the longer papers.

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by HomeAgain

[Bambam]

The college doesn't offer free tutoring and a free writing center? Every college we visited had both. He should take his rough draft and ask for help. He needs to start the paper vs. just go in and ask for help.

The instructor also has office hours. Son should go to them with his rough draft and ask for pointers about where he needs help. 

Is the problem grammar? Or spelling? If so, I'd be tempted to encourage him to use Grammarly. 
If the problem is coherent papers, maybe reading them aloud will help? 
If the problem is the paper needs more structure - I might find an online checklist and have him use it. 

 

[EKS]

Every writing/English class that my kids have taken (in either high school or college) does what I call "teaching by assignment."  They give writing assignments and expect the students to complete them with no instruction and no revision.  

I always wondered how schools dealt with teaching writing after I realized how very difficult it is to teach, and I found out that they deal with it by not doing any teaching at all.

[Kassia]

I bought this book for dd when we were homeschooling and we found it helpful.  It may have been recommended here, but I can't remember.  https://www.amazon.com/Write-College-Handbook-GREAT-SOURCE/dp/0669000310

Still, the feedback/guidance from a good writing instructor/tutor is really the best.  

We always found peer tutoring in class to be an awful waste of time.  So many students were poor writers and it didn't make any sense for students to get advice from others who were just as bad (or worse) than themselves.  Dd used to have to participate in the peer writing requirements, but would never consider taking any of the tips from the other students. 

 

[Farrar]

I guess I'm not seeing a problem necessarily. It sounds like the class didn't work for him. But a class where the teacher gives some written or lecture resources, chats with students about writing, and then gives feedback on specific assignments seems like a writing 101 class to me. The primary teaching is going to be in the assignment feedback and the practicing of skills. Of course, some students need a different approach - but honestly, in my years of teaching writing, I find that feedback is the best way to get kids to learn and grow.

Strongly seconding the college writing center. I've literally never heard of a college not having one.

ETA: Just adding... I guess I'm filling in some blanks here. If the prof really didn't give any resources or guidance about how to do the assignments and then didn't really give feedback, but only a grade, then obviously that's a problem. But I would say those are the problems, not that fact that the class set up seems to have been some classes where the prof chatted with them about writing and others where they were directed to work on assignments on their own.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Farrar

[Lori D.]

Wow. That sounds stunning bad and useless! 

While I wouldn't expect there to be any hand-holding as far as the assignments (like in a middle school course, or in a foundations of writing high school course), my understanding is that college courses provide instructor lecture/teaching time to go into the specifics of the topic, in addition to the text that is read by the student outside of class... 

DSs here both took Writing 101 and 102 at the local Community College (8 and 9 years back), and got in-class instruction, did peer reviews, etc. Amount of feedback on papers varied, depending on the instructor -- one provided great specific feedback. We used the "Rate My Professor" and landed an excellent instructor -- DS#1 had him for both semesters, and DS#2 had him for 1 semester. The instructor DS#2 had for the other semester was weak, and didn't give much feedback, but still provided in-class instruction. Both instructors were available to help during their weekly office hours, and the Community College also offered free tutoring for Writing.

So sorry you got such a bum class / instructor, @kfeusse!

Edited June 5, 2021 by Lori D.

[happypamama]

Intro to Writing or whatever it was called at a big university when I was in school was a solid course.  I don't remember a lot of details, but we wrote several different types of essays and papers and received feedback.  That's what I would expect.

[PeterPan]

22 hours ago, kfeusse said:

My son, who struggles with writing....is still struggling with writing.  Now, it could just be my son.  And I am willing to go with that.  He is getting some writing tutoring this summer, so I am hoping that will help him.  But I sort of feel like we are paying for this class twice...once to the college....and once to the tutor...

Just a suggestion but maybe you need an SLP, not a writing tutor. You had another thread saying you strongly suspected ASD. He could have narrative language deficits affecting his writing. https://mindwingconcepts.com/pages/methodology  This link will give you the jist, but basically the narrative language deficits will affect his expository writing. So to get intervention you're looking for an SLP who works a lot with autism or SLDs, someone who does narrative language testing and says they use the Story Grammar Marker materials. It's a specialized thing, developed for kids with dyslexia who struggle with writing then extended to autism. If you can find an SLP who does this or have a tutor who would go through the materials with him, might deal with the root problems. You can call them and ask what you'd buy. Probably Thememaker.

And yes, what you described is pretty typical for a college course. If he's having trouble with writing due to his disabilities, he may need disability specific instruction. And it's typically an SLP working on this stuff, sometimes an intervention specialist (person with a MEd) who will have it.

Edited June 6, 2021 by PeterPan

[PeterPan]

17 hours ago, elegantlion said:

How much help did he ask for?

Exactly. That college doubtless had a writing lab and services available. Learning to ask for help is a big hurdle. He may need *both* pieces to succeed, both the private SLP intervention and on campus services.

[PeterPan]

13 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Wow. That sounds stunning bad and useless! 

Fwiw, I wouldn't castigate the school too hard. One, covid. Two, the kid relaying how this went down may have been leaving out a lot. What she described is pretty much what I saw going down at one of the local private universities we visited (small, charming). Online classes like dd did were set up better, with response chats, peer review, etc. My guess is how it went down for op's dc is somewhere in the middle.

[regentrude]

I am saying this very gently: please consider that your DS may be exaggerating to rationalize his bad grade. As an instructor, I can tell you that the perception students have about a class, and the things they tell their parents, do not always agree with reality. 
I have students who claim I am not working examples (in fact, every lecture contains multiple examples),  not offering any help (in fact, there are 15 hours of free assistance available weekly), that I cover less in my online classes than in my in-person lectures (when the online lectures contain absolutely everything plus extra) ...

What resources did the instructor suggest, and what feedback did they give? Did your student attend the writing center? Did he contact the prof for additional help or attend office hours?

[Garga]

15 hours ago, EKS said:

Every writing/English class that my kids have taken (in either high school or college) does what I call "teaching by assignment."  They give writing assignments and expect the students to complete them with no instruction and no revision.  

I always wondered how schools dealt with teaching writing after I realized how very difficult it is to teach, and I found out that they deal with it by not doing any teaching at all.

I’ve found this to be somewhat true as well. 

I’m a natural writer. It’s effortless, so I always thought I was being taught. 

Big surprise when I had my son. I can’t even describe how difficult writing is for him. My gray hair are all from dealing with teaching him writing. It’s been absolutely horrible, actually.

I think people think they’re teaching writing, because a lot of people just figure it out for themselves how to write (somewhat). But when you have a person who just can’t write, when they have a huge block and the words simply do not come, then all of a sudden you realize how skimpy actual writing instruction is. 

 

OP: for any writing in the future, encourage your son to use the writing center and also see if the professor in any writing classes will also provide feedback on any writing assignments. My son did that for his Eng101 class and it helped. But you have to contact the teacher for yourself (as a student) and initiate the review process. They don’t do it without request.

 

EDITED: My youngest son was effortless to teach, so my oldest’s struggles weren’t a result of my teaching.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Garga

[EKS]

16 minutes ago, Garga said:

OP: for any writing in the future, encourage your son to use the writing center and also see if the professor in any writing classes will also provide feedback on any writing assignments. My son did that for his Eng101 class and it helped. But you have to contact the teacher for yourself (as a student) and initiate the review process. They don’t do it without request.

Note that there are entire books written on how to tutor/teach writing without actually telling the student how to write.  The idea is that if you give direct instruction, you are writing their paper for them and that's cheating.  It infuriates me--though I will admit that I only know about this in theory as I've never been to a writing center (or taken a writing class as an actual adult).

[kfeusse]

For the record.....My son did NOT use the writing center....even though we HIGHLY encouraged it.  I also have no doubt he is trying to exaggerate to justify a bad grade.  I am not under any delusion that my son didn't do all he could do to help himself.  He is repeating this right how with the tutor.  He is not confident in his ability to write and has a mental block that he has to overcome.  

My point simply was, did the prof do all they were supposed to do?  For students who struggle with a skill, I guess maybe I was expecting more in person help than was given....2 out of the 3 class hours were not in person....and to me that is not the most effective way to teach....especially kids who struggle with a certain skill. 

We are working hard this summer to help him realize that he actually can write...not that he will ever be a great writer...but he can do it.  

Thanks for everything you guys all shared....as always I appreciate the brute honesty and help. 

[regentrude]

48 minutes ago, kfeusse said:

My point simply was, did the prof do all they were supposed to do?  For students who struggle with a skill, I guess maybe I was expecting more in person help than was given....2 out of the 3 class hours were not in person....and to me that is not the most effective way to teach....especially kids who struggle with a certain skill.

If the instructional mode for the class was listed as " in person", that would be grounds to complain. If listed as "blended" or "hybrid" , that's is what I would have expected. This info should be available when signing up.

The one on one editing help typically happens in the writing center, not through the prof. That's simply not practical, considering typical class sizes.

ETA: profs often require one meeting for a paper conference for the biggest assignment in the semester. But I  can't see a prof meeting with individual students for the weekly assignments. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by regentrude

[elegantlion]

35 minutes ago, kfeusse said:

 

My point simply was, did the prof do all they were supposed to do?  For students who struggle with a skill, I guess maybe I was expecting more in person help than was given....2 out of the 3 class hours were not in person....and to me that is not the most effective way to teach....especially kids who struggle with a certain skill. 

 

I get the mental block. My students develop a thesis from a prompt and many don't understand how to further develop from the prompt and not simply use it. I had a student who claimed they couldn't write well, missed two papers and turned in 1/2 a paper for another. He wrote brilliantly, his grammar and arguments were clear, but he believed he was a bad writer. I offered to specifically help him, he never took up my offer however.

He was much like my son in that getting started was the hardest part. If that is part of your son's issue, I've seen the book The Writing Revolution recommended a lot. I've skimmed through it and planned on implementing some of it into my class but haven't had the chance. 

I would try to help him identify his problem areas, is it the getting words on paper? Is it style issues?, etc. 

To me, it sounds like the class was structured as it should be, although I probably would have added a 1-to-1 meeting with the professor - depending on class size. It's hard sometimes to figure out which students really want help but are afraid to ask and those that simply don't care and want a passing grade to be done with it all. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by elegantlion
clarifying

[Bootsie]

2 hours ago, kfeusse said:

For the record.....My son did NOT use the writing center....even though we HIGHLY encouraged it.  I also have no doubt he is trying to exaggerate to justify a bad grade.  I am not under any delusion that my son didn't do all he could do to help himself.  He is repeating this right how with the tutor.  He is not confident in his ability to write and has a mental block that he has to overcome.  

My point simply was, did the prof do all they were supposed to do?  For students who struggle with a skill, I guess maybe I was expecting more in person help than was given....2 out of the 3 class hours were not in person....and to me that is not the most effective way to teach....especially kids who struggle with a certain skill. 

We are working hard this summer to help him realize that he actually can write...not that he will ever be a great writer...but he can do it.  

Thanks for everything you guys all shared....as always I appreciate the brute honesty and help. 

Was this a weekly routine in which Monday was ZOOM, Wednesday was "work on your paper", and Friday was an in-class meeting?   I have seen that type of arrangement in writing classes.  Sometimes Wednesday would be a day where you could come to the classroom if you wanted, but it was not a class requirement; so students who felt they could write better at home or somewhere without as many distractions could do so but students who chose to come to the classroom had help available if they wanted it.  Sometimes Wednesday would be used as a peer review/work day--I question the usefulness of that, but it is often used in writing classes.  Sometimes Wednesday would be used for the professor to meet one-on-one with a student, rotating through the class.  

[katilac]

On 6/5/2021 at 9:26 AM, kfeusse said:

 

The first day was a zoom class that wasn't an hour long....more like 30 minutes...and she basically gave the kids a writing assignment due on Friday...and talked at them for a bit.

The 2nd class day wasn't a class day...they were just expected to work on their assignment on their own.

The 3rd class day was finally an in person class...where she just had the kids turn in their writing....asked them if they had any issues with their assignment....that sort of thing.

My opinion differs a bit based on whether you are saying that this was the class structure for every week, or if you are literally saying this was Days 1, 2, and 3. 

If the latter, then it's typical and not a big deal imo. Many profs just go over the syllabus the first day, and even shorter than 30 minutes is not unusual. Having a 30-minute class every single week would be problematic, although the students could use it as writing time. 

The other two I don't see as big problems even if ongoing. Class time to work on assignments is usually regarded as a lovely gift by students, lol, and is particularly helpful for struggling writers who are often very reluctant to put in the time outside of class. Giving students the chance to discuss any issues with assignments is a core component of writing classes and is a great way for teachers to personalize instruction - if numerous students say they are having trouble with transitions, then it's ideal to address that, rather than whatever is on the next page of the textbook. 

12 hours ago, kfeusse said:

For the record.....My son did NOT use the writing center....even though we HIGHLY encouraged it. <snip>

My point simply was, did the prof do all they were supposed to do?  For students who struggle with a skill, I guess maybe I was expecting more in person help than was given....2 out of the 3 class hours were not in person....and to me that is not the most effective way to teach....especially kids who struggle with a certain skill. <snip>

Not using the writing center was likely the number one issue. That is where you are going to get individualized help and feedback, which gives you the chance to revise before submitting for a grade. 

Teachers often have different techniques, and there's rarely one "most effective way to teach" that can be defined. Did the prof do all they were supposed to do? Hard to tell. I don't see anything that indicates they didn't. Giving time to work on assignments, asking students if they had any issues with assignments, these are perfectly reasonable ways to run a writing class. If the prof had office hours and gave feedback on assignments, then yes, it sounds like they did all they were supposed to do. There's only so much you can do to make a writing course 'hands-on.' Students have to write something before they can get feedback on it, kwim? It is an alternating process: go over assignment, write, ask questions, review feedback, revise . . . 

I don't think any of us can get too irate at classes being more remote than expected this past year - they may have planned a completely irl class, but lots of plans went awry the last couple of semesters. I say that as a parent whose student struggled and suffered with hybrid and online classes (and believe me, the rest of us struggled and suffered as well - collateral damage, lol). Her 4.0 dropped like an album, and it stinks, but what are you going to do? Maybe the schools could have done more to support students or to help instructors succeed online, and maybe the students could have done more to adapt to a format that wasn't their ideal and to use the help available, but I don't see any real laxity or negligence in either case. It was a hard year for everyone. 

Don't look at it as paying for the same class twice; look at it as paying for learning about the consequences of not asking for help as needed (the college) and paying for learning specific writing skills (the tutor). There is also the added bonus of the student learning that, if they don't want to do something to begin with, they certainly don't want to do it twice! My dd will be retaking 75% of tax accounting next semester, and there is no one on earth who wants to do that. 

[Amy in NH]

In a remedial college course, I would expect actual writing instruction - process stuff - followed by multiple instructor edits of student papers and rewriting for each assignment.  It does sound like you've not gotten what you paid for.

[Amy in NH]

17 hours ago, katilac said:

[g]iving time to work on assignments, asking students if they had any issues with assignments, these are perfectly reasonable ways to run a writing class.

Students should be working on assignments outside of class time, and getting instruction and one-on-one help during class time.

A remedial student wouldn't know if they had any issues with the assignment?  If they turned in their best work, and it wasn't up to regular-college par, they probably think they did a fine job?

[Carrie12345]

I don’t have enough experience to comment on the course itself, but I do think it would be helpful to determine exactly what type of writing difficulties he’s having.

Since it was mentioned, my son with ASD is a pretty good writer. However, he has NEVER mastered the concept of a strong thesis.  Grammar, syntax, vocabulary, punctuation, citations, A+.  Emotion and conviction... dependent on the topic.  Overall structure, acceptable. Thesis? Buzz off. Not happening. 

I’m telling you, there was no saving him from his thesis deficiency.  But he was able to compensate with the rest.

My own issues were different. I was obsessed with trying to figure out what an instructor “wanted me to say”. I’m capable of writing fine, but my fear of interpreting something “wrong” or having an “incorrect” viewpoint crippled me. (Today, I’ll gladly share any random thought I have. 😉 )

A couple of my younger kids struggle with simple mechanics, which is a brand new world for me.

If he’s missing a piece that isn’t part of the course, the course isn’t going to be much help.

[LucyStoner]

Is there a writing center or writers lab at his college?  My college had 1-1 writing tutoring available for free via the writing center.  I worked in it. 
 

Here ENG 101 and 102 are requirements and not just for remedial students.  One focuses on literature and literary analysis papers and the other on non-fiction research papers.  There was, as far as I can tell, zero actual writing instruction in the ENG 101 classes my niece and son took this year.  My son is a strong writer and he struggled with the format of the class in the context of all online.  My niece, who really struggles with writing, ended up dropping it.  

[katilac]

5 hours ago, Amy in NH said:

In a remedial college course, I would expect actual writing instruction - process stuff - followed by multiple instructor edits of student papers and rewriting for each assignment.  It does sound like you've not gotten what you paid for.

I think the student comments are way too vague to assume there was no actual writing instruction. It's possible there wasn't, but I would bet money that there was. The student describes how the first week of class went, but really no details after that. He doesn't say there weren't instructor edits and rewriting (both of which I mentioned as necessary, we don't disagree on that).  

5 hours ago, Amy in NH said:

Students should be working on assignments outside of class time, and getting instruction and one-on-one help during class time.

A remedial student wouldn't know if they had any issues with the assignment?  If they turned in their best work, and it wasn't up to regular-college par, they probably think they did a fine job?

You might not like the idea of giving some class time for assignments, but it's very, very common in college comp courses. I would imagine even more so for remedial courses, because the remedial students are the ones most in need of specific time set aside to write (as they are the most reluctant to do it on their own, and the most likely to get stuck if they do so).  Classes set aside for working on assignments usually also include peer review and the chance to ask questions. But just getting pencils moving on paper is a worthy beginning goal for a group of struggling and reluctant writers. It also allows the instructor see their actual skill level at free writing and initial writing, which can be very important. 

Are you saying he shouldn't have asked them if they had issues with the assignment, because they wouldn't know? I disagree with that. I've taught many remedial-level writers, and they can struggle with pinning down why they are struggling, but that problem is common in higher-level courses as well. The goal is that, through repeated asking and answering, the writer will improve their ability to know if they have issues with an assignment. 

I don't really understand your final sentence. If they didn't ask questions, didn't go to office hours, and didn't go to the writing center, then perhaps they did assume they did a fine job on the first assignment. They would then get a grade that shows they did not in fact do a fine job, which is when the student needs to ask questions in class, go to office hours, and go to the writing center. 

I'm not saying this instructor did a bang-up job, because I have no idea if they did or not. I am saying that we don't have enough information to assume they didn't do their job, and we do have enough information to know that the student did not use the help that was available. As I said in my other post, I'm not slamming the kid for that; it's hard and it's a learning process. And again, I'm speaking as the parent of a college kid who really struggled academically in the pandemic, when the entire experience was just so different. She's usually great about going to office hours, but really struggled with motivating herself to do it this year - and it showed in her results. It's very understandable that various students struggle with reaching out for the help that's available, for whatever reason, and it doesn't mean they are lazy or that they don't care, but it also doesn't mean that it's entirely the fault of the instructor. 

My main point was that it's over and done, there is absolutely not enough information to say the prof didn't provide sufficient instruction, so just acknowledge that it was a hard year and a hard class and a hard lesson learned. The other option is to investigate and get additional evidence that the instructor did or did not provide the class as intended, and you can then file a complaint. That's absolutely a legitimate option.