Seminary Has Begun Paying Reparations

[ktgrok]

It's not a perfect solution or even close, but it is something? 

Seminary Built on Slavery and Jim Crow Labor Has Begun Paying Reparations

The Virginia Theological Seminary is giving cash to descendants of Black Americans who were forced to work there. The program is among the first of its kind.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/31/us/reparations-virginia-theological-seminary.html

[TexasProud]

So what would you consider a perfect solution?

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

So what would you consider a perfect solution?

No idea, honestly. I don't think there is one, short of a time machine. 

[Melissa Louise]

Seems an appropriate and proportionate thing for a church to do. It's not really unlike the church compensating victims of CSA. 

[TexasProud]

12 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

No idea, honestly. I don't think there is one, short of a time machine. 

Ok.  Just checking. 

[ktgrok]

17 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Seems an appropriate and proportionate thing for a church to do. It's not really unlike the church compensating victims of CSA. 

Oh, I think it is a good thing, for sure. 

As long as it is done in a sense of, "this is the least we can do" and not "well, that's all good now", you know? I'm pretty impressed by them trying, at least. That's more than most places do. 

[Farrar]

A good friend of mine is in seminary there and she was telling me about this. Yes, definitely a positive step.

[Catwoman]

37 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

So what would you consider a perfect solution?

Since you asked the question, what would you consider to be a perfect solution?

[Katy]

I don’t know.  What percentage of descendants have proof or even know?

[Farrar]

21 minutes ago, Katy said:

I don’t know.  What percentage of descendants have proof or even know?

That's where this went awry with Georgetown. They made promises to grant descendants of slaves who had been owned by the school free tuition. I read last year that they never paid a dime.

[TexasProud]

43 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Since you asked the question, what would you consider to be a perfect solution?

Honestly, I do not have a clue. I had to read a book called Unsettling Truths for class.  That author believed reparations should be paid to Native Americans.  

So let's take Texas...  So I am sure my land was owned by Native Americans, heck most of the land if not all of it was. So, we all move off? How much do we pay? Do only owners of land, but not renters pay?  How much is enough? It just made my head swim to even think about it.

Do the descendants of Genghis Khan need to pay reparations? People have been taking land by force since the beginning of time. ( Not saying that is right. It isn't. ) But how far back do you go? What about people in Europe? Or are we only talking about the United States?

On the other hand, what we did to the Native American and to the slaves was horrendous. I do think we need to take down Confederate memorials and create some lynching memorials like the National Center of Peace and Justice calls for.  Just like the Holocaust, we need to never forget what we have done.  And yes, some sort of reparation... scholarships for Black and Native American students maybe.  I don't know. Something meaningful, rather than just throwing money at people. 

I just get overwhelmed to try and even think of it. 

[Katy]

45 minutes ago, Farrar said:

That's where this went awry with Georgetown. They made promises to grant descendants of slaves who had been owned by the school free tuition. I read last year that they never paid a dime.

Maybe if they hired a genealogist to track the people down. 

[ktgrok]

18 minutes ago, Katy said:

Maybe if they hired a genealogist to track the people down. 

Right. That's what his seminary did - hired geneologists. 

[Laura Corin]

8 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Honestly, I do not have a clue. I had to read a book called Unsettling Truths for class.  That author believed reparations should be paid to Native Americans.  

So let's take Texas...  So I am sure my land was owned by Native Americans, heck most of the land if not all of it was. So, we all move off? How much do we pay? Do only owners of land, but not renters pay?  How much is enough? It just made my head swim to even think about it.

Do the descendants of Genghis Khan need to pay reparations? People have been taking land by force since the beginning of time. ( Not saying that is right. It isn't. ) But how far back do you go? What about people in Europe? 

I don't know how to solve the monetary reparations issues. Scotland has, however, instituted Right to Roam legislation,  partly in response to The Clearances,  when smallholders were moved off land that was then used for profitable sheep grazing by wealthy landowners.  The people lived in misery or were forced to emigrate. 

I have the right to walk, cycle, ride a horse or wild camp on private land in Scotland,  so long as I don't do any damage. There are exceptions - the immediate gardens/yards around houses, football pitches when in use, etc. But basically I can climb over fences and walk where I please, so long as I act responsibly, e.g., avoid livestock, keep my dog under control, don't walk across standing crops.

https://www.scotways.com/faq/law-on-statutory-access-rights

Edited June 2, 2021 by Laura Corin

[Carrie12345]

12 hours ago, TexasProud said:

On the other hand, what we did to the Native American and to the slaves was horrendous. I do think we need to take down Confederate memorials and create some lynching memorials like the National Center of Peace and Justice calls for.  Just like the Holocaust, we need to never forget what we have done.  And yes, some sort of reparation... scholarships for Black and Native American students maybe.  I don't know. Something meaningful, rather than just throwing money at people.

I don’t know the perfect solution either, but I won’t call money meaningless. So many of the problems we created that continue to impact people trace back to the restriction of wealth (to put it mildly.) No, that doesn’t bring people back or soothe the first-hand traumas, but it IS relevant to some aspects of the issues.  And not just for people who want to go to college.

[pinball]

5 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

I don't know how to solve the monetary reparations issues. Scotland has, however, instituted Right to Roam legislation,  partly in response to The Clearances,  when smallholders were moved off land that was then used for profitable sheep grazing by wealthy landowners.  The people lived in misery or were forced to emigrate. 

I have the right to walk, cycle, ride a horse or wild camp on private land in Scotland,  so long as I don't do any damage. There are exceptions - the immediate gardens/yards around houses, football pitches when in use, etc. But basically I can climb over fences and walk where I please, so long as I act responsibly, e.g., avoid livestock, keep my dog under control, don't walk across standing crops.

https://www.scotways.com/faq/law-on-statutory-access-rights

This is really neat.

It’s funny...bc we have threads on the board where people get angry when someone goes into their yards w/o permission, even  for what I think are pretty innocent reasons.

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by pinball
sepll chekc

[Carrie12345]

6 minutes ago, pinball said:

This is really neat.

It’s funny...bc we have threads on the board where people get angry when someone goes into their yards w/o permission, even  for what I think are pretty innocent reasons.

 

For some people, it’s safe to assume they’re obsessively possessive, like those who freak if a child is trying to retrieve a rogue ball on a Sunday afternoon  

For others, a random stranger can be a breach of social norms that indicates potential danger.

Sensitive subject for me, lol. 

[Innisfree]

5 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

I don't know how to solve the monetary reparations issues. Scotland has, however, instituted Right to Roam legislation,  partly in response to The Clearances,  when smallholders were moved off land that was then used for profitable sheep grazing by wealthy landowners.  The people lived in misery or were forced to emigrate. 

I have the right to walk, cycle, ride a horse or wild camp on private land in Scotland,  so long as I don't do any damage. There are exceptions - the immediate gardens/yards around houses, football pitches when in use, etc. But basically I can climb over fences and walk where I please, so long as I act responsibly, e.g., avoid livestock, keep my dog under control, don't walk across standing crops.

https://www.scotways.com/faq/law-on-statutory-access-rights

I loved this, during the year I lived in Scotland. I could walk across an island, sit for hours and watch for otters. Just close the gates and be responsible.

25 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I don’t know the perfect solution either, but I won’t call money meaningless.

Yes.

My problem with money alone is that no amount can ever suffice. There's too much harm to ever be remedied by money. 

On the other hand, it can sure ease some present inequities.

I don't know the best ways to target it. Relatively small payments, like the seminary's, might be a mostly symbolic gesture. They might help people with a few car repairs or a few months of groceries, or pad an emergency reserve, but they aren't life-changing, and they aren't compensation for generations of unspeakable injustice.

I'd like to see more substantive compensation which would change lives going forward: quality education, starting with preschool for those who want it, and continuing at least through community college; investment in residential areas affected by redlining; investment in grocery stores in food deserts, and accessible (in every sense) medical care; access to high-speed internet. I'm sure there are plenty of other needs to be met.

[pinball]

2 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

For some people, it’s safe to assume they’re obsessively possessive, like those who freak if a child is trying to retrieve a rogue ball on a Sunday afternoon  

For others, a random stranger can be a breach of social norms that indicates potential danger.

Sensitive subject for me, lol. 

I agree about the social norms being an issue...

it stinks, IMO, when the child retrieving the ball w/o express permission is now considered breaking social norms.

in certain rural communities I know the norm is to pull in the driveway and honk or yell to the house. You don’t go up to the door. 

 

[stripe]

There is also a stereotype that Black people are superhuman, super strong, and so on. So they are deemed extra frightening and extra dangerous, and a “normal” amount of force won’t stop them and some man in a chokehold will magically throw off four officers and kill them all! So a young black woman (Renisha McBride) showing up on the porch for help is supposedly some threat and is shot and killed on the spot by the resident, and a young black man (Elijah McClain) is injected with ketamine by the police to calm him down.

One of the advantages of an apology and reparations is that it acknowledges that the event took place and that it was serious. For so many events, certain groups are expected to “get over it,”  and it’s as if it never happened or it had no impact, when all these things had a HUGE impact. Including having family members gunned down in the streets or endless pointless traffic stops.

Japanese Americans received reparations of $20,000 each and a formal apology by Pres. Reagan. Issues involving minority groups are depicted as being ancient history — which they aren’t — and often aren’t even relegated to history. Many social systems were specifically designed to be racist, while cleverly avoiding specifically saying so. For example, the New Deal including minimum wage laws, the GI Bill, and policies of immigration such as family reunification. So why wouldn’t the practice of destroying Black families (a tactic also embraced by sending Native American / Indigenous children off to residential schools), making education illegal, and other destructive policies that were part of slavery not have any impact down the line? Or the long history of groups like the Ku Klux Klan attacking successful Black families, combined with the loss of the funds held in the Freedman’s Savings Bank? How can one look at the reality of life — even just financial realities! — and not see the impacts? 

https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/disparities-in-wealth-by-race-and-ethnicity-in-the-2019-survey-of-consumer-finances-20200928.htm

There’s obviously no fixing it, and no magic wand. But denying it sure isn’t working.