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suggestions and help for us as we try to help our son


kfeusse
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1 minute ago, TechWife said:

I wouldn’t even go there, honestly. One thing my ds has a problem with is long term thinking. It paralyzes him. If he isn’t able to complete step one, talking about step ten, which presently seems unattainable, means there is no use in doing step one because the end isn’t going to happen. My son has been home from college for three years now and only able to work one of those years. Just today we talked again about looking for a tech program that would help him qualify for some type of job that matches his interests. But today was the first time he said he needed help weeding through the possibilities because it’s overwhelming to him. We talked about the skills he would like to use, what he wants to learn more about and what type of work environment he thinks he would do better in. This has been a three year process. I am so excited that he has admitted he needs help and has agreed to me helping him look around for a program that will help him meet his goals. Before this, he just needed a job to work on job skills - like showing up on time, completing tasks, being around other people, etc.. College may benefit him again in the future, but now is what we need to focus on. We can’t get the cart before the horse - it will backfire. 

I’m sorry if my post sounded like kfeusse should be suggesting to her son that he should return to college right now; that wasn’t what I meant at all. I don’t think anyone should be pushing that idea on him if he is strongly opposed to it. On the other hand, I don’t think anyone should be suggesting to him that he’s not “college material,” either. I think it’s probably best to not bother discussing college at all right now.

What I meant by my post was that nobody has a crystal ball. Nobody knows for sure what this young man is capable of. Right now, he doesn’t want to return to college, and that’s fine. But I liked PeterPan’s suggestion that he get a job in a field that interests him, rather than some random dead-end job, because if he sees other people being successful at jobs he thinks he would enjoy, he might very well be capable of doing whatever it takes to eventually qualify for those better jobs... and that might eventually include college, or a tech school, or certification courses. Or it might not. Time will tell.

I think the most important thing is that he needs encouragement that he can achieve his goals, and that it’s also okay not to know exactly what he wants to do with his life at this age. And it’s ok to experiment with different things. And it’s also good to get help with the things that may be hampering his success at whatever he wants to do, and there is no shame in sometimes needing more help and more scaffolding than some other people might need... because life doesn’t have to be on a specific schedule, and if it takes him a while to figure things out, that’s fine. 

Honestly, had he not moved away for college and had instead lived at home while he went to college, we might not even be having this conversation, because his mom may have seen early on that her son needed extra help and more scaffolding, and either provided it herself, or helped him access the resources available at his school, and he might still be in college today. It’s hard for a parent to know what’s going on and to try to help, when a kid is several hours away and the parent doesn’t have any opportunity for a more hands-on approach (and who may not even know there’s a problem until the grades are posted at the end of the semester.)

 

I definitely agree that what he needs right now is support and encouragement, but it doesn’t mean that there are necessarily long term limits on what he can achieve in the future.

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I just googled Nebraska and neuropsychology...This is Omaha,  which based on population might have a wider choice, but I’m not sure bc of NU being in Lincoln, there might be a lot of choices there, too.

anyway, this gives a brief description of neuropsychological testing. A good evaluation would be able to tease out learning issues and autism issues, as well as anxiety and OCD.

https://www.nebraskamed.com/behavioral-health/neuropsychology

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I have two diagnosed ASD/ADD as adults. (and one diagnosed as a child) Both also happen to be my gifted kids.  One is medicated for ADD, the other isn't.   

Skip the GP, go to an autism clinic, or at least a pysch that specializes in diagnosing neurodiverse adults.

There are things that can help.   Look up Asperger's Experts.  (founded by, and run by, aspies.  As they say so succulently, the 'professionals' go home at the end of the day and don't have to deal with it on weekends either.)  But he would need to be invested in it.

My dd swears by Somatic Therapy (we've all seen huge strides since she started.) - it helps to integrate the nervous system.  Yoga can also be very helpful.  - anything that is bilateral will help with neurological integration.  (e.g. horse back riding, swimming, bicycling, etc.)

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15 hours ago, saraha said:

It’s interesting what is available in different states. My aspie/high functioning autism kids don’t get any support. Not in college, not with services. Neither drive, but they are “too high functioning “

Sometimes a state's vocational rehab services are easier to access. They are all about removing barriers to employment and helping people retain employment.

I would not be surprised if any work history at all helps get services--if you tried a job, showed up on time, etc., it probably shows you need support that they can offer. 

For those that are not familiar, these services apply to physical needs too. If you need a specialized wheelchair and can't afford one, that is something they will sometimes help with. They do job coaching, provide physical accommodations, etc. 

This could go lots of ways--an eval could sort out what is maybe autism, ADHD, OCD, anxiety. They all group together and overlap in interesting ways. For instance, ADHD can create situational anxiety because the person knows that they can do something but struggles to attend to the task. For people with this sort of thing going on (and who often look anxious vs. looking like they have ADHD), sometimes ADHD meds makes the anxiety go away because it solves the part that is not working. Other times, the anxiety is making them look like they have ADHD, and solving the anxiety solves the ADHD symptoms. It's really individual.

1 hour ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

Unfortunately initiating and sustaining friendships requires a bunch more social skills on top of that. 

It also involves a surprising amount of organizational skills.

 

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2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I like your idea of him getting basically any job that is available, as long as it’s in a field that interests him, because if he sees the people at work who have the “better” jobs, it might inspire him to go back to college and earn his degree (or further his education in some other way, like getting certifications or whatever,) because he would have a tangible goal in mind that he could work toward. Sometimes a specific end goal is the thing that it takes to motivate a kid to do things like taking the general ed classes he doesn’t enjoy; knowing that there is an actual purpose to doing those writing assignments (or whatever) can be very helpful. 

I’m not saying he needs a degree to be successful in life; I’m just saying I wouldn’t necessarily write off that possibility right now, while he’s still so young. And if he gets a diagnosis, he might be eligible for some extra help if he does eventually decide to return to school, as well.

Also, you said he did okay in school with you there to help him be successful. Is he open to help? If so, he could either take classes online at home, with you helping him with organization, etc OR if he has a diagnoses may be able to get supports in place at college. 

But definitely he may need time before he is ready for school. 

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21 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Also, you said he did okay in school with you there to help him be successful. Is he open to help? If so, he could either take classes online at home, with you helping him with organization, etc OR if he has a diagnoses may be able to get supports in place at college. 

But definitely he may need time before he is ready for school. 

I agree, and I was wondering the same thing.

Also, I don’t think anyone has mentioned this, but although he may not have gotten good grades in college, let’s not discount the fact that he managed to live several hours away from home for a year, and apparently managed just fine — even with all of the stresses and craziness of Covid. We aren’t talking about a kid who is incapable of fending for himself. 

I’m not saying he doesn’t have any challenges; I just don’t want to overlook the positives or underestimate his capabilities. I keep coming back to the fact that he’s only 19, and lots of kids don’t do well when they move away to college, and lots of kids have some executive functioning issues, and lots of kids don’t make friends easily, and lots of kids are still pretty immature at that age, as well. And let’s face it — lots of kids don’t enjoy writing, think their general ed courses are a waste of time, and don’t have long term life goals at 19, either. Yet, most of them eventually go on to complete their educations and/or achieve their life and career aspirations in other ways. 

He is still so young that I would try very hard not to make him feel that his potential is limited in any way.

 

 

Edited by Catwoman
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54 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

He is still so young that I would try very hard not to make him feel that his potential is limited in any way.

It's a really interesting thing to ponder how he thinks of himself, how he self assesses, whether he notices differences from his peers, etc. 

54 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

underestimate his capabilities.

He probably has all kinds of abilities, and he ESPECIALLY has the ability to respond well to good intervention, which is why connecting him with resources (social thinking, interoception, etc.) is so essential. The question is whether the parents see him realistically, from the perspective of an employer, which is what the ELSA can help with.

Underemployment in autism is high and getting a degree does not ensure he will be employable. The degree and employability are separate problems, because he could achieve the one and not have the other. 

https://www.socialthinking.com/Articles?name=preparing-for-transition-adulthood-Part-3  Here's an article by a mom, hits right where op is. 

Michelle Garcia Winner talks openly in her workshops about the problem of college and wanting our kids to get through it when it's not where they're ending up. And maybe he will, but this is a common, common problem. She tells the story of a client (very high IQ) whose parents came to her wanting intervention. He had been in college, wasn't happy, so took a job at Target, LOVED Target. After a year the parents are like he's better, he can go back, right? And she's like hello, he's happy, he's structured, his stress is appropriate, he's working. 

It's hard stuff to see our kids realistically, the whole picture, not just their IQ and ACT scores. When the kid has had some intervention and built some self awareness, absolutely he can begin to say realistically what he wants. No mom will hold him back from that! But he doesn't need to be pressured to do things that aren't a good fit or propped up through things that aren't a good fit by people who aren't seeing him completely realistically either.

Evals will help get there, good interventions, building communication. Think about it. If he spent a semester or year on the campus with no friends, did he notice? Did he have feelings about that? Does he assess himself as different from his peers or does he have questions yet about himself?

18 hours ago, kfeusse said:

Any kind of change is hard for him, although he is a lot better at dealing with that than he used to be.  It used to throw him for a major loop.  

18 hours ago, kfeusse said:

when he is doing something, there is always a specific order in which he wants it done it. 

How will this affect his employability?

I like to think I'm a rational 40-something adult. I've got to tons of Social Thinking training, I'm reflective, becoming self aware, and I body scan and work on my interoception regularly. I know my Zones and work on self regulation. So if willpower could get you there, I'd be fine. I made a list for last week and one day the plan changed (the appointment taking up half the day was canceled). It rattled both me and ds so much we got NOTHING DONE in that time slot. And my dh was like hello, do something! I'm like no, the paper had nothing listed so I'm doing nothing. THAT WAS THE PLAN. 

Hahahaha. It never ends. It never goes away. When you're clinical, you're clinical baby. And you know what a PAIN IN THE BUTT that kind of rigidity would be for an employer? You know how HARD it is to overcome your own rigidity and be flexible and deal with change even when you know and are trying?? When I was a teen and they got me into work programs, I was SUCH a pain in the butt. And it could be over anything, anything where I dug in my heels and said no, that's not right, that's not how it's done, that's not the order I do it in, whatever. Over and over. I'm pretty sure that summer employer was so glad to be rid of me, lol. 

All my college employment has stories like that too, with me telling the bosses they were wrong, me being rigid. It's why flexibility and taking correction are on the ELSA. ;)  

 

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2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I agree, and I was wondering the same thing.

Also, I don’t think anyone has mentioned this, but although he may not have gotten good grades in college, let’s not discount the fact that he managed to live several hours away from home for a year, and apparently managed just fine — even with all of the stresses and craziness of Covid. We aren’t talking about a kid who is incapable of fending for himself. 

I’m not saying he doesn’t have any challenges; I just don’t want to overlook the positives or underestimate his capabilities. I keep coming back to the fact that he’s only 19, and lots of kids don’t do well when they move away to college, and lots of kids have some executive functioning issues, and lots of kids don’t make friends easily, and lots of kids are still pretty immature at that age, as well. And let’s face it — lots of kids don’t enjoy writing, think their general ed courses are a waste of time, and don’t have long term life goals at 19, either. Yet, most of them eventually go on to complete their educations and/or achieve their life and career aspirations in other ways. 

He is still so young that I would try very hard not to make him feel that his potential is limited in any way.

 

 

Plus the whole covid dynamic almost certainly made finding new friends WAY harder than it might have been otherwise.  I'm also on team not pushing college, but I also don't conclude from this experience that he is incapable of college or higher level employment, because this year was so atypical, we simply don't have enough information to know how he would do in a more typical experience.  

But in the immediate future, I'd encourage him to look for a job in a field that interests him and take some time and get his bearings.  I'm all about evaluations, too, but I don't think that "didn't make friends during covid = incapable of finding his people under other circumstances."

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There are some kinds of disability services that require documentation before a certain age. As one example, there are financial accounts called ABLE accounts that are specifically for people with disabilities, but they require a diagnosis before age 26. ABLE accounts are one tool for helping individuals who may not be fully self-supporting handle long-term finances. You can google this.

Also, I recommend looking at what Goodwill offers in your area. I read an article recently that GW offers job training, coaching, and counseling without requiring specific levels of disability. I'm not sure if that is true nationwide, but it's worth checking into. Goodwill does a lot more than operate the thrift stores, and many people don't realize that.

My DS17 is receiving job coaching this summer through Goodwill. He personally does qualify and receives the services through our state department of vocational rehabilitation.

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4 hours ago, Terabith said:

Plus the whole covid dynamic almost certainly made finding new friends WAY harder than it might have been otherwise.  I'm also on team not pushing college, but I also don't conclude from this experience that he is incapable of college or higher level employment, because this year was so atypical, we simply don't have enough information to know how he would do in a more typical experience.  

But in the immediate future, I'd encourage him to look for a job in a field that interests him and take some time and get his bearings.  I'm all about evaluations, too, but I don't think that "didn't make friends during covid = incapable of finding his people under other circumstances."

That is right since so many things that normally college kids do were prohibited.  Like visiting other dorm rooms.  And clubs and stuff were cancelled too and depending on where the college was, you couldn;'t go to a restaurant or coffee shop or any place.

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I would try working on testing, and with regard to jobs, contact Nebraska VR (Vocational Rehabilitation).

“We help people with disabilities prepare for, find, and keep jobs.”

To qualify you must have the following:

  • Impairment: You must have a diagnosed impairment. Another word for this is disability. This could be some type of physical, mental, emotional or learning disability.
  • Impediment to employment: We must be able to show that the impairment has caused you some problems in past employment, current employment or would cause some problems preparing for and getting employment in the future.
  • Benefit: We must be able to show that VR services would help you obtain successful employment. Require services: We must show that VR services are needed for you to reach successful employment.

http://vr.nebraska.gov/index.html

Here are their office locations.

I encourage you to get all the help you can. You can’t do it all, and even if you could, it would be exhausting. 

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a couple thoughts in addition to the many excellent ones above:


Some job shadowing in areas of potential interest might help him.

Within fields that interest him it might be helpful to think of what opening positions there are where his characteristics would be very positive. For example, my son has been an ice skater, so I know more about than bowling but expect there would be parallels. Some areas of opening jobs have to be very flexible and open to nuance like the rink patrollers who skate during public sessions and make sure others are being safe, while also allowing enough freedom for it to be fun; however, other areas need more orderly precision, like the people who do blade sharpening, or keep the rental skates organized and maintained. 
 

Also for starting work maybe sporting goods stores or sports sections of big box store type jobs are more numerous and would be a start. 
 

I think getting whatever outside help you can would be a good idea.
 

In lieu of college, he might even need some scaffolding to help him to be able to be in a rented room in a city where there are more  programs and positions available to help him to get started. 
 

 

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15 hours ago, Storygirl said:

There are some kinds of disability services that require documentation before a certain age. As one example, there are financial accounts called ABLE accounts that are specifically for people with disabilities, but they require a diagnosis before age 26. ABLE accounts are one tool for helping individuals who may not be fully self-supporting handle long-term finances. You can google this.

Also, I recommend looking at what Goodwill offers in your area. I read an article recently that GW offers job training, coaching, and counseling without requiring specific levels of disability. I'm not sure if that is true nationwide, but it's worth checking into. Goodwill does a lot more than operate the thrift stores, and many people don't realize that.

My DS17 is receiving job coaching this summer through Goodwill. He personally does qualify and receives the services through our state department of vocational rehabilitation.


Yes. I know a few people or parents of people who get trained by Goodwill. It worked out really well. 
 

 

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Just adding to the friendship issue, my ds is an introvert college student living at home because his school is close to our house. While he is an introvert, he is not shy, and has made efforts to participate in school life. Perhaps due to covid restrictions, perhaps not, it has taken him some time to make friends. Finally, mid- to late second semester of sophomore year, he has developed a couple of small groups of friends that he is keeping in touch with through group chats (since school is out for the summer). It was a long time in coming, but the relationships are fun and enjoyable. He is a deep one, so the really deep friendships are more long distance from former places, but companionship needs for hanging out are finally being met. Sometimes it takes awhile, even if someone isn't on the spectrum.

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2 hours ago, Pen said:

starting work maybe sporting goods stores

That is an excellent suggestion. Retail is predictable, low stress (hopefully), and quiet for his sensory issues. He doesn't have to be terribly social to do it. And places are looking like crazy to hire.

Fwiw, I don't think college/fall has to be decided right now, right? He could take a job, work on evals, get some meds (for anxiety, ADHD, whatever) and just see where he's at. It will be a learning summer, a working summer. And then he can sort out what he wants to do in the fall. But it's a great time to be getting a job, so get one, get that learning experience. 

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2 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

That is an excellent suggestion. Retail is predictable, low stress (hopefully), and quiet for his sensory issues. He doesn't have to be terribly social to do it. And places are looking like crazy to hire.

My Autistic dad mostly worked in computer programming, but also did stints at a hunting and fishing store.  He *loved* it.  Info dumping about an area of interest with other enthusiasts?  Heaven.  

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7 minutes ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

My Autistic dad mostly worked in computer programming, but also did stints at a hunting and fishing store.  He *loved* it.  Info dumping about an area of interest with other enthusiasts?  Heaven.  

I know, and think about why you WOULDN'T encourage it. Pride, issues over income, whatever. But reality is, he may need these characteristics like being connected to an area of interest, slower pace, low pressure/anxiety, quiet, etc. 

I love that your father did this. We're still thinking through how this can work out for ds. We don't want him to have a ton of time where he's just in a basement gaming, so he really needs to "work" even if work is hobby work. So it's what is hobby for money, what is another job, how that combo works out. I guess we'll just see. We may end up starting a business so he can work his hobby. We'll just see. We're letting it unfold and become obvious.

Adding: people are worried that involves low expectations, and it's just the opposite! I told my ds it means he could own TWO businesses. I'm all about empowerment, just with supports and safety so it actually works. Being really realistic about what he really needs to succeed.

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Adding: we are in rural area and without having ASD or similar I was considering possibly paying for my same age as yours son to have an apartment in city so that he could get work experience that would not be paying enough to live on...     It seemed counterintuitive to consider, but locally the only job  at his age was seasonal agricultural work, bucking hay for example, which he has done.

 

I could imagine that might be true and maybe even more so in rural Nebraska.  Perhaps for him it is an educational step to help him to be able to get a starting position at, say, a Dick’s sporting goods in a city, where he could get job experience more or less related to his interests. Then maybe he could gradually work his way toward bowling pro from there.  Or maybe work his way up in retail sports area. Or someday start his own business (or start one with your help perhaps). 

 

 

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3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

That is an excellent suggestion. Retail is predictable, low stress (hopefully), and quiet for his sensory issues. He doesn't have to be terribly social to do it. And places are looking like crazy to hire.

Fwiw, I don't think college/fall has to be decided right now, right? He could take a job, work on evals, get some meds (for anxiety, ADHD, whatever) and just see where he's at. It will be a learning summer, a working summer. And then he can sort out what he wants to do in the fall. But it's a great time to be getting a job, so get one, get that learning experience. 

I wonder if this is a case of “each person is different.” My son worked retail and hated it. His location was really busy, even hectic on weekends,  and it was always loud. 

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7 minutes ago, TechWife said:

I wonder if this is a case of “each person is different.” My son worked retail and hated it. His location was really busy, even hectic on weekends,  and it was always loud. 

yeah, my son did that last summer and hated standing behind the cashier counter all day.  He hated it when the lines got long and he felt the pressure to move quickly...and then he made silly mistakes that he would not have made normally.  He hated the music that was playing over the store speaker too.  He grumped everyday he had to go to work.  The job this summer is so different....so far....he hasn't had to mow in 95 degree temps yet...so that could change somewhat...but when we ask...."still better than last summer?" he always says "YES!"  

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I did not read every post here - in case not already mentioned, Kens Krew might be a help:

 

What We Do - Ken's Krew
Ken's Krew provides job placement, training, and support for individuals with neurodevelopmental disabilities in competitive employment. OUR PROGRAM. Recruitment. We network with local school districts, state employment agencies, and other service organizations to identify potential candidates.

Contact - Ken's Krew

Ken's Krew Inc. is incorporated in Pennsylvania and is a 501(c)3 tax exempt organization. Ken's Krew, Inc. is funded by a mix of public and private monies. We strive for organizational efficiency in all areas of operations and program delivery
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3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

I know, and think about why you WOULDN'T encourage it. Pride, issues over income, whatever. But reality is, he may need these characteristics like being connected to an area of interest, slower pace, low pressure/anxiety, quiet, etc. 

I love that your father did this. We're still thinking through how this can work out for ds. We don't want him to have a ton of time where he's just in a basement gaming, so he really needs to "work" even if work is hobby work. 

Getting my dad out of the house and interacting with people is so, so important for everyone’s mental health and well being.  Even if it meant him being “underemployed.” 

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2 hours ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

“underemployed.” 

I think they meant hours, not relative to IQ. So full employment, partial employment. Your father was holding a full time job *and* working extra hours, yes? But if a person needs a full time job and can only find or only handle due to disabilities part time work, they're considered underemployed. At least that's how I understand it.

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34 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Yeah, I'm over here thinking "the only people who think retail is low stress are people who have never worked retail."


I think it depends on what exactly is being done. We have friends with a son who was trained via Goodwill and then went on to a job where he pretty exclusively arranges merchandise for display. Plus interacts with customers and helps direct them to right store area if they ask him. He does not rush to try to answer phones or man cash registers. It is pretty calm, methodical, and routine as best I understand it. 

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1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

I think they meant hours, not relative to IQ. So full employment, partial employment. Your father was holding a full time job *and* working extra hours, yes? But if a person needs a full time job and can only find or only handle due to disabilities part time work, they're considered underemployed. At least that's how I understand it.

Computer programming was his main career.  But with his social deficits, he was often among the first to be cut in downturns, and had extended periods of unemployment.  The retail gig was part time during one of these periods.

I personally would use the term “underemployment” broadly, to include working below one’s intellectual capacity.  (Underemployment isn’t necessarily a bad thing!  It’s just acknowledgment that IQ alone won’t make a job a good fit.)

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