Thoughts? Regarding daughter and boyfriend

[TravelingChris]

52 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Average welder salary in Florida is around 40k. Now...an underwater welder doubles that...but not many people do that. 

NOt here.  Much higher here- because plants really need them and not that many people are going into trades anymore with the big push of college.

[SquirrellyMama]

From some conversations with my DD, I think he's making 30-40k two years out. 

They've had many discussions which is good, because my dh and I did not have a lot of discussions. Sounds like he might like to work for himself someday and be a sahd. His parents were quite upset by that idea too.

I'm glad they are discussing things now, and finding out how the different parents think. 

It is always good to start somewhere even if ideas change as they go along.

Kelly

[TravelingChris]

1 hour ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Well that isn’t uniformly true everywhere.  It also matters if you are self employed or employed for someone else.   Financial goals and priorities are just a good thing for young engaged couples to discuss.  If he is adulting in all ways financially, that is great and a different discussion.  
 

eta average annual income for a welder in my area is 44K a year.  That is significantly below the average household income of 57K.  I would certainly hope most people earning a masters degree and going into debt for it would have significantly more earning power.  

Why would you go into debt for a master's degree= unless it is an MBA, JD or MD?  You shouldn't go to grad school without the university supporting you.

[SquirrellyMama]

5 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

She is literally still a teenager. I wouldn’t be thrilled either, even if I adored her as a person.

People go through a huge amount of developmental change ages 18-24. I see no reason to rush marriage or childbearing. (Early marriage tends to be followed by early childbearing.)

We have started the convos now—well before serious girlfriends and boyfriends are on the scene. Our advice is for them to develop themselves and secure good educations before they partner with someone else. 
 

We are saying this now, because ultimately their decision is theirs. We wouldn’t try to tear apart relationships, iykwim. 

She won't be getting married until at least 22-23. My dh and I were 24 and had kids at 26. Now our youngest will be out of the house before we're 50. 

Kelly

[SquirrellyMama]

2 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Why would you go into debt for a master's degree= unless it is an MBA, JD or MD?  You shouldn't go to grad school without the university supporting you.

She's going for Athletic Training. Unfortunately, that recently changed to a Masters Degree required.

Kelly

[SquirrellyMama]

Thanks everyone! I'm not overly concerned when they get engaged or married. I'll admit that I don't want grandchildren for awhile. 

I'd like to see her settled in a career first so she can continue when kids come. But, again it will be her decision some day.

I won't be losing sleep over it. I just felt bad for her since their reaction came as a shock.

Kelly

[TravelingChris]

1 minute ago, SquirrellyMama said:

She's going for Athletic Training. Unfortunately, that recently changed to a Masters Degree required.

Kelly

Okay- I can see how that can cost.  Because like MBA,etc it is a professional degree, not academic degree.  It is academic degrees where you are doing research or being a TA or teaching classes or lab assistant or what have you where you end up not paying for tuition.

[TravelingChris]

1 minute ago, SquirrellyMama said:

Thanks everyone! I'm not overly concerned when they get engaged or married. I'll admit that I don't want grandchildren for awhile. 

I'd like to see her settled in a career first so she can continue when kids come. But, again it will be her decision some day.

I won't be losing sleep over it. I just felt bad for her since their reaction came as a shock.

Kelly

They are being unreasonable.  ANd I think that what is really is the case is they don't like her or think something is wrong with your family.   I know my dd1's inlaws all don't really like her and don't like us either.  

[Frances]

1 hour ago, SquirrellyMama said:

She is just finished her 2nd year out of state, she has 2 more years. I don't know when he plans on asking. I am fine if he waits longer. 

We have talked about what happens with grad school. I did suggest that if they get married before grad school that she should wait for kids until she is done and settled in a career.

If they don't, they don't. It is definitely something for her to think about. Have another plan. 

Kelly

If they do get married before grad school and it’s an option at the school she attends, I would highly recommend they consider married family housing. It was wonderful for us in every way; cheap (or free the years we were RAs), convenient due to its on campus location, and a wonderful community of couples and families all living on very little money. It was some of the best years of my life.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Frances

[catz]

5 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Why would you go into debt for a master's degree= unless it is an MBA, JD or MD?  You shouldn't go to grad school without the university supporting you.

I agree wholeheartedly.  If my kids want to do grad school, and I think my oldest will, I will be encouraging the most economical route possible.  The OP mentioned debt.  Sometimes even if you get a good tuition deal, living expenses can rack up some debt if you don't have help with those type of expenses.  

Anyway, a  welder in my area earns an average of 44K a year.  Which is fine for a single young person, but maybe not comfortably supporting middle class for a family of 4.  I earned significantly more than that with 2 BS degrees when I quit working full time 20 years ago with my oldest.  My master's degree DH earns WAY more than that and has for many, many years.  So it really does depend on area, motivation and drive of individuals, available opportunities, etc.  And OP, I'm just talking generally at this point, don't read too much into anything I've posted.  

[Janeway]

4 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Maybe they just told him that he should ask some other family members for their honest opinions.

There is no reason to believe that they intentionally tried to get the other relatives to gang up on him.

OP said specifically.."they made him ask"...and coincidentally..the people they forced him to ask had the same exact opinions. I do not think it was at all casual or coincidental.

[SquirrellyMama]

Just now, Janeway said:

OP said specifically.."they made him ask"...and coincidentally..the people they forced him to ask had the same exact opinions. I do not think it was at all casual or coincidental.

His dad said, "Go ahead and tell your uncle what you told us". Her boyfriend was not happy. 

[Janeway]

6 hours ago, SquirrellyMama said:

 

 

His parents made him tell some other relatives who had the same objections. 

 

Kelly

This is what you said happened.

[Pen]

 

 

Without regard to her boyfriend, will her expected income be able to support her if she were single and living on her own plus pay off loans?

 

Concerns about costs of education for the field of work versus income from the field might be rational to look at independently of the marriage issue.  Also employment opportunities for the field. There seem to be a lot of people with graduate degrees in barista field because of lack of work available in chosen field. 
 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Pen

[Carrie12345]

1 hour ago, SquirrellyMama said:

Thanks everyone! I'm not overly concerned when they get engaged or married. I'll admit that I don't want grandchildren for awhile. 

I'd like to see her settled in a career first so she can continue when kids come. But, again it will be her decision some day.

I won't be losing sleep over it. I just felt bad for her since their reaction came as a shock.

Kelly

That’s where I’d be with it, too, for the most part.

I *know my dd (18 next month) and her bf talk about their forever.  I have absolutely zero thoughts on whether or not that’s going to happen, early, late, or never.  I’m not IN the relationship to truly know what their odds are.  And I’d be pretty unhappy if they decided they were going to get married in the next year or two, maybe even three or four.  But dd already talks about living with us for “a long time” until she gets her life in order, so I’m not too worried about that.

BUT, if they were to get married in 5 years... even maybe 4... that’s still a lot of time, with something like a year and a half under their belt at this point. I can’t see getting upset about that.

And engagement? I don’t really have a problem with that, though I’d be taken aback if it happened anytime soon, lol. To me, it’s just a formal statement of intent. There’s nothing scary about that, imo.  It might not work out, but what’s wrong with that?!?!  If it does, hooray!

Student debt is a non-factor to me.  Dh graduated in May and we got married in October.  His degree bought the life we made.  I mean, we *were pretty poor for a while, lol, but our relationship wasn’t a financial transaction; it was an emotional one.

(And we were 23.)

[Frances]

56 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Honestly, until there is a ring on it AND dates are being discussed and plans are being set into motion....it's not something I would worry about.  I was engaged twice before I met DH.  My sister was engaged (with dates set and dresses bought even) once before she met her DH, and my DD25 has been engaged once before already.   And right now, my DD25 has being "talking about getting engaged" to her BF for like a year now!  I have referred to him here as almost fiance BF.  I really wish he would just pop the question already but what really concerns me is that she's moving across the country with him.  They have said they would be engaged before she moves but....still ain't no ring on it yet.  He's a really great guy, I just wish he would make the commitment already. 

This. They are still so young. I know many people, including myself, who seriously dated someone for 3-4 years before they met their current spouse.

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, happysmileylady said:

  I really wish he would just pop the question already but what really concerns me is that she's moving across the country with him.  They have said they would be engaged before she moves but....still ain't no ring on it yet.  He's a really great guy, I just wish he would make the commitment already. 

I can't understand why, in the 21st century, it is still the guy who has to "pop the question" and "make the commitment" - as opposed to the couple rationally discussing the question of marriage together and coming to a joint decision. Putting the expectation for a proposal on the man is archaic and impractical. It's one of the most important issues a couple has to decide; why should that be handled in this antiquated, asymmetrical way?
 

Edited May 31, 2021 by regentrude

[SquirrellyMama]

32 minutes ago, Frances said:

This. They are still so young. I know many people, including myself, who seriously dated someone for 3-4 years before they met their current spouse.

I did also. I was engaged, in fact, before I met my dh. 

[Kassia]

2 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

 I really wish he would just pop the question already but what really concerns me is that she's moving across the country with him.  They have said they would be engaged before she moves but....still ain't no ring on it yet.  He's a really great guy, I just wish he would make the commitment already. 

My oldest ds and his gf have been together for 8 1/2 years and living together for 6.  They have moved to a different part of the country for her career and probably will again soon (for his career this time).  They make life decisions as a couple and have both made big sacrifices to stay together as a couple.  We keep waiting for an engagement announcement, but it hasn't happened yet.  Every time there's a holiday or they do something special or they come for a visit, DH and I wonder if they will have an announcement, but nothing so far!  

[Murphy101]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

I can't understand why, in the 21st century, it is still the guy who has to "pop the question" and "make the commitment" - as opposed to the couple rationally discussing the question of marriage together and coming to a joint decision. Putting the expectation for a proposal on the man is archaic and impractical. It's one of the most important issues a couple has to decide; why should that be handled in this antiquated, asymmetrical way?
 

Meh. They are moving across country together so I doubt they aren’t making decisions together.  If he and she are of the relationship dynamic where the expectation is the question comes from him - then I don’t care. If she asked him, I wouldn’t care either. It’s somewhat unusual for either to ask unless they are pretty darn sure of a yes bc of lots of talks about it anyways. 

That said I personally would be really upset by just living together. Either commit or don’t.  Not that I get a vote but that’d be my view of it. And it would make me very nervous for my child moving into that situation. 

[Carrie12345]

2 hours ago, SquirrellyMama said:

I did also. I was engaged, in fact, before I met my dh. 

I dated someone from age 15 to 18, and we definitely intended to get married. 

Otoh, I was with ds’s bio dad for over 2 years and we had even been friends and sometimes dated casually before that. We figured we’d get married and he gave me a ring, but I got out before we went through with it.

Dh and I got engaged and married in less time than either of the other two, lol. And without an engagement ring.  :::shrug:::

[Frances]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

I can't understand why, in the 21st century, it is still the guy who has to "pop the question" and "make the commitment" - as opposed to the couple rationally discussing the question of marriage together and coming to a joint decision. Putting the expectation for a proposal on the man is archaic and impractical. It's one of the most important issues a couple has to decide; why should that be handled in this antiquated, asymmetrical way?
 

So much this. My husband and I mutually decided we wanted to get married 33 years ago. I was also not “given away” by my dad or parents. The church where we married had two aisles and we walked in together with our parents and there was a part of the ceremony about each of us becoming part of the other family.

[Tap]

I would not worry about it. I would also tell the couple to not worry about it. Seriously, they are discussing a potential marriage that is years from now. When the couple wants to get engaged, then a discussion can take place. I wouldn't give it another thought until then. There are tooo many factors that could affect the outcome between now and then. 

Getting married at 19 or, 22 or 33 doesn't guarantee or doom anything.  DD22 started dating her husband at 18. They planned to get married when they graduated college. Then he enlisted in the military and they got married at 19. I gave them my heartfelt blessing because of many factors (they had lived together for  year, were truly in love, and my daughter's long term illness are a few), but mostly because I feel that living a life of passion and desire in a committed relationship, is a great place to be. If they divorce at 30, that sucks but they will recover. If they waited until 24 to get married, and divorced at 30, that sucks but they will recover.  If they break up in a year, and they meet someone else at 24 and get married to that new person....that doesn't guarantee that they wont be divorced at 30...and still, that sucks and they will recover. 

[1234]

This thread makes me happy that my dc, 19 and 21, aren’t dating seriously and have no plans to marry anytime soon.  

Dh and I met when I was 20 (he was 24) and were married four months later! No engagement or engagement ring - we just got married. I’m sure my parents were freaking out because my brother and SIL dated for ten years and had just got married the year prior. It’s worked out for over 25 years for both my brother and myself but I hope my own dc land somewhere in the middle of what we did. 

[TravelingChris]

14 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

Honestly, until there is a ring on it AND dates are being discussed and plans are being set into motion....it's not something I would worry about.  I was engaged twice before I met DH.  My sister was engaged (with dates set and dresses bought even) once before she met her DH, and my DD25 has been engaged once before already.   And right now, my DD25 has being "talking about getting engaged" to her BF for like a year now!  I have referred to him here as almost fiance BF.  I really wish he would just pop the question already but what really concerns me is that she's moving across the country with him.  They have said they would be engaged before she moves but....still ain't no ring on it yet.  He's a really great guy, I just wish he would make the commitment already. 

Dh and I got engaged and I didn't get a ring because we were poor college students (We had hoped to get married right after dh graduated but we had to move up the date because my mom was dying from ALS).  I had no interest in him getting into debt over a ring I didn't even really want.  

I did get a beautiful cubic zirconia Black Hills Gold ring last September for my 35th anniversary.

[TravelingChris]

13 hours ago, regentrude said:

I can't understand why, in the 21st century, it is still the guy who has to "pop the question" and "make the commitment" - as opposed to the couple rationally discussing the question of marriage together and coming to a joint decision. Putting the expectation for a proposal on the man is archaic and impractical. It's one of the most important issues a couple has to decide; why should that be handled in this antiquated, asymmetrical way?
 

We even did that in the mid 80's.  Came together on a joint decision.

[livetoread]

I proposed to my dh in '92. It was sweet because I asked him, and then he asked me. He later fessed up that he was planning on asking me a couple of days later but was trying to get my ring size first. We ring shopped together instead which worked out better. My dad was very put out that I "had to ask him" but I knew dh was going to propose eventually. I just thought it was an unhealthy custom that I should have to wait for him because he was a man. Wouldn't change a thing.

I get the multicultural issues though, and one has to pick their battles in such situations, particularly with family. I wouldn't be thrilled if my daughter was moving across country like that either. Understood.

[SKL]

I understand the concern about the student loans.  The rest of it seems irrational.  Unless they know something we don't know.

I think they will get used to the idea.  It's good that they were told early on, so they could start getting over themselves.

[Carrie12345]

53 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

We even did that in the mid 80's.  Came together on a joint decision.

I wonder how often it’s an out of the blue surprise?  I think I’d be very uncomfortable and kinda pissed if someone asked me to pledge my life to them if we hadn’t already talked about wanting to get married.

17 minutes ago, SKL said:

I understand the concern about the student loans.  The rest of it seems irrational.  Unless they know something we don't know.

I think they will get used to the idea.  It's good that they were told early on, so they could start getting over themselves.

I don’t want to discount the impact student loans have on finances, because they definitely do.  I just don’t see how waiting changes the finances.  Same with pricey rings.  There are 2 people.  One makes $X, the other makes $Y, and that inevitably makes $Z.  However many years it takes, in cash or financed, that amount is going to come out of Z.  Zx1, Zx4, Zx50.... Math is math.  
I might feel differently if I anticipated early divorce, but that’s a whole other thing.

[SKL]

5 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I wonder how often it’s an out of the blue surprise?  I think I’d be very uncomfortable and kinda pissed if someone asked me to pledge my life to them if we hadn’t already talked about wanting to get married.

I don’t want to discount the impact student loans have on finances, because they definitely do.  I just don’t see how waiting changes the finances.  Same with pricey rings.  There are 2 people.  One makes $X, the other makes $Y, and that inevitably makes $Z.  However many years it takes, in cash or financed, that amount is going to come out of Z.  Zx1, Zx4, Zx50.... Math is math.  
I might feel differently if I anticipated early divorce, but that’s a whole other thing.

Maybe they are thinking that children will follow soon after marriage, and that would affect Z.

[marbel]

 

8 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I wonder how often it’s an out of the blue surprise?  I think I’d be very uncomfortable and kinda pissed if someone asked me to pledge my life to them if we hadn’t already talked about wanting to get married.

I don't know a single soul whose proposal was a surprise. Maybe the form of it was a surprise, but the plan to marry had been decided between the couple involved. My husband proposed to me after we had discussed getting married. At that point it was simply a formality, a nod to tradition.  

But, someone has to start the conversation about getting married. Whether it is 'would you marry me?' or something more general, one of the couple has to initiate it. It shouldn't really be a complete surprise to the other person though. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by marbel

[Carrie12345]

10 minutes ago, SKL said:

Maybe they are thinking that children will follow soon after marriage, and that would affect Z.

Sure, every choice affects Z!  But it all still comes from the same pot.  Whatever two people make over the course of 50 years, student loans, diamond rings, kids, houses, cars, etc. are going to come out of that total whether they’re married for 50 of those years or 40.  (I was going to say “or 5”, but the odds of kids happening in years 45-50 are pretty solidly on the not likely end of things, lol.)

I don’t see anything wrong with financial security being on someone’s partner wish list.  It’s just that, if the plan is till death do us part, the impact is going to be the same regardless of the date of legal marriage.  Whoever’s physically paying the bill, whenever they’re paying the bill, from X or from Y, it subtracts from Z.

[stripe]

12 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

DD's BF comes from a non US culture.  I personally wouldn't care if she proposed, I wouldn't care if neither got rings or if both of them did.  But right now, things are OFFICIALLY .....NOT official.  There is actually a WHOLE LOT of the issues of the proposal and marriage situation that is about accommodating his parents/his mother, who lives about 8k miles away right now and due to covid and the travel restrictions that requires....it's complicated....

It's not my job to tell him that his culture is antiquated and asymmetrical.  

Yeah, okay, I missed this. Yes, I totally get families having a vote on the marriage. It’s like this with my in laws. I even got to give my vote on an in-law’s marriage idea (I was a SUPER ENTHUSIASTIC yes!). I am just going to say, if the family is against this, it is going to be really hard and unpleasant. I wish her the best.

[TechWife]

23 hours ago, Katy said:

I would shrug and say that there are plenty of statistics that show marriages are much more stable if you wait until both people are over 25 (neurological adults) to marry.  At the same time people aren’t statistics. I know plenty of people who married their high school (and in one case middle school) sweethearts and are still together. And I know some who are divorced. 

Ultimately what DD and FSIL decide is up to them. If I thought they brought out the best in each other I’d encourage them to do whatever they thought best. 

This. Even if your daughter is asking for advice or commiseration, I suggest staying neutral, give vague info like Katy said and letting them work it out themselves. The last thing I would recommend would be to become either a cheerleader or a detractor of any specific path forward. Together, they will need to figure out their relationship and if they continue as a couple, and how much weight, of any, they will give to either family’s preferences or customs. My personal goal would be to stay out of it. I would also be open & honest and tell her this is something they will need to work out themselves. 

[ktgrok]

15 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

I dated someone from age 15 to 18, and we definitely intended to get married. 

Otoh, I was with ds’s bio dad for over 2 years and we had even been friends and sometimes dated casually before that. We figured we’d get married and he gave me a ring, but I got out before we went through with it.

Dh and I got engaged and married in less time than either of the other two, lol. And without an engagement ring.  :::shrug:::

My mom was engaged for over a year to a guy, got cold feet, and broke it off. Met my dad a while later, and they were married at the Justice of the Peace 3 weeks after their first date! Still together 🙂

[SKL]

3 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Sure, every choice affects Z!  But it all still comes from the same pot.  Whatever two people make over the course of 50 years, student loans, diamond rings, kids, houses, cars, etc. are going to come out of that total whether they’re married for 50 of those years or 40.  (I was going to say “or 5”, but the odds of kids happening in years 45-50 are pretty solidly on the not likely end of things, lol.)

I don’t see anything wrong with financial security being on someone’s partner wish list.  It’s just that, if the plan is till death do us part, the impact is going to be the same regardless of the date of legal marriage.  Whoever’s physically paying the bill, whenever they’re paying the bill, from X or from Y, it subtracts from Z.

What I meant was, right now the girl has a clear career goal that is likely to lead to the ability to pay off the student loans within a reasonable amount of time.  If babies come soon after (or before) she finishes school, then realistically, earnings will go down, expenses will go up, and the student loan burden will become much more long term.  Since student loans carry interest, this is also likely to increase the absolute cost in the long run.  Extent of debt and/or difficulty with payments also affect credit ratings, and the ability to do useful things like buy a house.  It could be a significant weight on the young couple's shoulders for sure.

Not saying they shouldn't get engaged - just that this particular aspect of the parents' concern is not exactly irrational.

[Carrie12345]

12 minutes ago, SKL said:

What I meant was, right now the girl has a clear career goal that is likely to lead to the ability to pay off the student loans within a reasonable amount of time.  If babies come soon after (or before) she finishes school, then realistically, earnings will go down, expenses will go up, and the student loan burden will become much more long term.  Since student loans carry interest, this is also likely to increase the absolute cost in the long run.  Extent of debt and/or difficulty with payments also affect credit ratings, and the ability to do useful things like buy a house.  It could be a significant weight on the young couple's shoulders for sure.

Not saying they shouldn't get engaged - just that this particular aspect of the parents' concern is not exactly irrational.

So then the assumption would be that a set of parents is wanting to control the engagement, marriage, finances, AND procreation of not just current but future adults?

Maybe I would be cautioning my child. 😬 

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

So then the assumption would be that a set of parents is wanting to control the engagement, marriage, finances, AND procreation of not just current but future adults?

Maybe I would be cautioning my child. 😬 

Maybe I'm missing something ... I didn't read "control" into this.  I thought it was just an initial reaction to new news.

The inlaws have an opinion about the best time to marry ... seems the girl's parents also have an opinion on that.  Having an opinion isn't the same as control IMO.

Edited June 1, 2021 by SKL

[Carrie12345]

Just now, SKL said:

Maybe I'm missing something ... I didn't read "control" into this.  I thought it was just an initial reaction to new news.

Well, I’m not there either, lol. But I definitely read some control into it.  And then there was all the added hypothesizing, which made it even more. To me.

[SKL]

Well anyway ... best to find these things out before the engagement.  Seems there may be a lot to discuss.

[SKL]

3 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Well, I’m not there either, lol. But I definitely read some control into it.  And then there was all the added hypothesizing, which made it even more. To me.

To be fair, the hypothesizing was me.  🙂

I had a lot of student loans and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.  Of course, love conquers all etc, but it's not a small thing IMO.

[bibiche]

4 hours ago, marbel said:

 

I don't know a single soul whose proposal was a surprise. Maybe the form of it was a surprise, but the plan to marry had been decided between the couple involved. My husband proposed to me after we had discussed getting married. At that point it was simply a formality, a nod to tradition.  

But, someone has to start the conversation about getting married. Whether it is 'would you marry me?' or something more general, one of the couple has to initiate it. It shouldn't really be a complete surprise to the other person though. 

I had a few proposals that, while not completely unexpected, were not welcomed and which I did my best to ward off. It happens. Awkward.

[bibiche]

17 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

That said I personally would be really upset by just living together. Either commit or don’t.  Not that I get a vote but that’d be my view of it. And it would make me very nervous for my child moving into that situation. 

But living together is a commitment. I don’t get why you would be really upset by that. Would it upset you for a son as much as it would for a daughter?

[Murphy101]

7 minutes ago, bibiche said:

But living together is a commitment. I don’t get why you would be really upset by that. Would it upset you for a son as much as it would for a daughter?

I disagree it’s a commitment. Or at least not any more of a commitment than any other roommate situation. And yes it would and has upset me just as much for a son. (Not that I’d ever tell him that. He knows without me making a bigger deal out of it.  It’s not like he never heard church teachings and my beliefs before he met her.). Aside from personal views on the relationship aspect - there can be financial and legal protection reasons it makes sense to get married if they genuinely have that level of commitment. 

[bibiche]

6 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I disagree it’s a commitment. Or at least not any more of a commitment than any other roommate situation. And yes it would and has upset me just as much for a son. (Not that I’d ever tell him that. He knows without me making a bigger deal out of it.  It’s not like he never heard church teachings and my beliefs before he met her.). Aside from personal views on the relationship aspect - there can be financial and legal protection reasons it makes sense to get married if they genuinely have that level of commitment. 

Hmm. Okay. I’m not a big believer in marriage, so I guess we’re just looking at it from very different viewpoints. 

[Murphy101]

4 hours ago, TechWife said:

This. Even if your daughter is asking for advice or commiseration, I suggest staying neutral, give vague info like Katy said and letting them work it out themselves. The last thing I would recommend would be to become either a cheerleader or a detractor of any specific path forward. Together, they will need to figure out their relationship and if they continue as a couple, and how much weight, of any, they will give to either family’s preferences or customs. My personal goal would be to stay out of it. I would also be open & honest and tell her this is something they will need to work out themselves. 

This is me. I’d give some heads up info.  Such as what is HER plan for herself? What is she doing if things do not work out? I’d caution to keep finance separate and make sure she gets copies of all paperwork for her own files. A caution she can take or not obviously. But they make their own decisions and I’m here for her regardless.  I’d make my tongue bleed before I said anything negative about him or his family.