Kids that don’t pick up vocabulary from reading

[LauraBeth475]

My sixth grader is a voracious reader, listens to a lot of audiobooks, and scores very well on reading assessments, but her vocabulary scores are consistently low.  It’s not just a testing issue.  She regularly complains about people using big words that she doesn’t understand.  Anyone else have a kid like this?  My others have basically just learned word meanings by osmosis.  Any ideas about what kind of vocabulary teaching she might need?

[HomeAgain]

I would go with something like Word Roots or Words On The Vine, or something else that explicitly breaks down words into prefixes, suffixes, and roots so that she can analyze a word for meaning. 

[prairiewindmomma]

I used Wordly Wise 3000 with one of mine who needed a boost in this area. Learning the root words helped a lot.  I have also used Spectrum Reading. For a different child, the issue was sustained attention in reading.  They were just kind of tuning out while they read. 

[Lori D.]

Agreeing about a root-word study. Also, I'd consider how does she best take in/retain information.

If she likes/learns with workbooks, then check out the sample pages to see which of the different types of practice pages would best fit for DD in learning/retaining vocabulary:
- Vocabulary from Classical Roots series
Levels 5 (gr. 5) and 6 (gr. 6) come before the "letter" series -- "A" (gr. 7-9), "B" (gr. 8-10), "C" (gr. 9-11), and "D" (gr. 10-12).
- Word Roots series -- beginning (gr. 3-4); levels 1 & 2 (gr. 5-12); levels 3 & 4 (gr. 7-12)
- Red Hot Roots -- level 1 (gr. 3-5); level 2 (gr. 6-9)
- Word Builder series (3 levels, all for gr. 5-10)
Also has a CD go-along computer game for practice.
(one of the types of exercises in the workbooks has the root in a series of words in a stair step shape, to help see it as the base of the word, or in the middle or end of a word that has added prefixes or endings around the root as the base of the word -- a visual way of practicing seeing the root inside of a bigger word)

If she is more visual in learning:
- Word Builder workbooks (above) have exercises appear to be more visually-based
- Word Up! -- can buy the DVDs (also at Rainbow Resource); here's a 15 min. sample for previewing
- Miacademy: 5 Minute Greek and Latin Roots -- 5 min. video with tips; a nice beginning supplement

If she is more visual AND hands-on:
- All About Learning (the All About Spelling/Reading people)
FREE 40-second video + link to a FREE downloadable graphic organizer, with tips on how to use it.
- English From the Roots Up vol. 1 (gr. 3/4 and up) & vol. 2 (gr. 4/5 and up)
Book and/or Flashcards. We actually turned this more into a game to be interactive. (We just had the book, but you could easily just go with the flashcards.) On the page in the book, we would look at the root, with the definition on the bottom covered up, and try to think of words that had that root in it. Then we'd look up our guesses in the dictionary to see if we were right. From there we made our own flashcards, and included both the words listed in the book, as well as the ones we came up with.

If she is more game/hands-on oriented:
- Rummy Roots card game


NOT root-based:
- Free Rice -- online game (try to improve your own level); every right answer adds a grain of rice to the bowl that is donated
- Vocabulary Cartoons Elementary Edition -- visual picture/sentence-long story to embed vocabulary words in long-term memory
- Scholastic: Vocabulary Cartoon of the Day -- same method as above 

[LauraBeth475]

3 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

I would go with something like Word Roots or Words On The Vine, or something else that explicitly breaks down words into prefixes, suffixes, and roots so that she can analyze a word for meaning. 

This is kind of what I was thinking.  That maybe she doesn’t pick up vocabulary from context and needs to learn to analyze the words instead 

[LauraBeth475]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I used Wordly Wise 3000 with one of mine who needed a boost in this area. Learning the root words helped a lot.  I have also used Spectrum Reading. For a different child, the issue was sustained attention in reading.  They were just kind of tuning out while they read. 

Does Wordly Wise teach word roots?  It does look pretty easy to use 

[prairiewindmomma]

Yes.

https://eps.schoolspecialty.com/products/literacy/vocabulary/wordly-wise-3000-3rd-edition/about-the-program
 

People have set up free quizlets, too, that you can find for free online flash cards.

[PeterPan]

Any context here of visual processing or auditory processing oddities? Difficulties understanding speech in background noise? Trouble visualizing or with visual memory tasks like spelling?

You can have the list you've described (strong student, etc.) and get diagnosed with an APD. Why's she still using so many audiobooks in 6th? It's ok, my dd did, but then again my dd now is diagnosed with APD. ;)  

Vocabulary is considered a marker for overall language development, so having discrepantly low scores *could* indicate something more is going on, a relative weakness. It's why you'd look at context, other things she's shying away from or having trouble with. And I'm a little surprised that she's not gaining vocabulary with the audiobook access. So both with auditory *and* visual inputs she's having trouble? 

Any other developmental differences or history there? Did she have speech therapy at any point?

[EKS]

Read aloud for 1-2 hours per day (not necessarily all at once) from works that are above her reading level but that she can understand with some input from you.  Then when you get to unfamiliar words, discuss them.  Don't wait for her to ask about them--call them out.  

Also, consciously elevate the vocabulary you use in general conversation.  The best way to do this with kids is to just not censor yourself.  Use whatever word you'd use with an educated adult.  Then define it in an organic way.

[Not_a_Number]

10 hours ago, EKS said:

Also, consciously elevate the vocabulary you use in general conversation.  The best way to do this with kids is to just not censor yourself.  Use whatever word you'd use with an educated adult.  Then define it in an organic way.

Yeah, we definitely do this. It has worked really well. DD8 is now trained to ask what things mean...

[stripe]

When you say she is a voracious reader, that doesn’t necessarily mean she’s reading things that would improve her vocabulary. And also, some people skip over what they don’t understand. So I would say, that is an important component. You might want to increase informational (non fiction) reading and listening. Listen to something aimed at an at least moderately educated adult audience. Watch shows like “Nature” or “Nova” on PBS. It helps if it’s about something she might be interested in, like, say, a rat driving a car. Try TED talks; there are a million of those. There are a lot of audiobooks of non-fiction topics, too. Try podcasts, like, for instance, Milk Street Radio. Watch Jeopardy! Try to solve NPR’s Sunday Puzzles. Add in anything that is more personal; I am trying to suggest pretty generic things since I don’t know what she’s interested in. See if your local public librarian can help; many can advise even if your library is closed. If you do these things together, or talk about it after she reads/listens/watches, it might lead to discussions, which might help her vocabulary. But if it’s a consistent problem, I would consider reaching out for help to make sure nothing is overlooked, or if there are more targeted things that might help her. 

[PeterPan]

Couple observations. One, when the testing is looking at vocabulary, it may not just mean "knows words". They also are looking at her ability to use context to infer meaning, her semantic awareness (parts of speech, morphology, etc.), etc. We care about lexicon or the organization of her internal dictionary. Can she tell you the definition of a word? Can she elaborate on it by explaining what it looks like or the parts are, where/when/how it's used, etc. etc? How is her *word retrieval*?

If she were in school and having those scores, the SLP would confer with the teachers and target academic vocabulary to help her understand her reading. Even if you're using a narration based approach and not a textbook, you have a way to work on vocabulary by picking ahead of time 5-7 words she's required to use in her narration. So rather than using vague words, we want to use specific academic vocabulary. For the audiobooks you assign (vs. pleasure), you could google for lists of vocabulary and preteach those words to draw her attention to them. You can also have her keep a copybook for vocabulary where she finds new, unfamiliar, or interesting words and copies the sentences from her reading into her copybook and looks up the word to see what it meant.

So we are 

-actively using target vocabulary

-preteaching vocabulary

-increasing attention to vocabulary

Workbooks may or may not be beneficial to her. If you're going to use a workbook, you might want to use it more actively, and you might find it's not keyed to the words she actually needs for her academics. I would not assume there are not holes in her lexicon or how her brain organizes language. If you work through things systematically, you may find holes. 

Rasinksi has done quite a bit of work on vocabulary and has many helpful articles on his site. https://www.learninga-z.com/site/breakroom/building-vocabulary  I am using his Building Vocabulary workbooks with my ds.

https://www.timrasinski.com/presentations/vocabulary_presentation.pdf

[kbutton]

On 5/30/2021 at 4:32 PM, PeterPan said:

Any context here of visual processing or auditory processing oddities? Difficulties understanding speech in background noise? Trouble visualizing or with visual memory tasks like spelling?

You can have the list you've described (strong student, etc.) and get diagnosed with an APD. Why's she still using so many audiobooks in 6th? It's ok, my dd did, but then again my dd now is diagnosed with APD. 😉  

Vocabulary is considered a marker for overall language development, so having discrepantly low scores *could* indicate something more is going on, a relative weakness. It's why you'd look at context, other things she's shying away from or having trouble with. And I'm a little surprised that she's not gaining vocabulary with the audiobook access. So both with auditory *and* visual inputs she's having trouble? 

Any other developmental differences or history there? Did she have speech therapy at any point?

APD can really mess up vocabulary development. I think sometimes it's just that the child misses a lot in real life, so when they miss it in a book, it's not unusual to them. These kids get used to picking up the gist without picking up all the details.

My son had therapy to remediate his APD, and he's basically been plugging those holes on his own since then. It doesn't help that he has mild dyslexia as well. He frequently googles "definition of _____" on his own, which helps. He was starting to pick up on some of this himself before the APD remediation (summer of 2019, I think), but the APD remediation really accelerated the process. We had tried some vocabulary curriculum before this, but it hadn't done very much. His literature program (Mosdos) includes definitions for words they expect to be tricky, and their workbooks have activities with the same words. I think that also made him pay more attention to words he didn't know.

My other son has a more in-depth language disorder, but it never negatively affected his ability to learn words from context.

[Jackie]

As far as I am aware, I have no LDs. I was always a voracious reader, and still struggled with vocabulary. No speech issues, excellent spelling, but vocabulary was always an outlier. I’ve been enjoying learning alongside my daughter (who has an affinity for words and learns them much more quickly than I do).

We’ve used the Michael Clay Thompson Caesar’s English books, which cover both word roots and vocabulary used frequently in classic literature. We only used a couple of his literature books, but he defines words in footnotes throughout the books. She took the Witty Wordsmith class from Lukeion. We’ve used all three books of the Vocabulary Cartoons series. There’s a book from Barron’s called 1100 Words You Need to Know that we’ve used some of that covers vocabulary typically found on SAT or GRE tests.

We both learn from playing games like Quiddler together, because we all use words that other don’t know.

[LauraBeth475]

On 5/30/2021 at 4:32 PM, PeterPan said:

Any context here of visual processing or auditory processing oddities? Difficulties understanding speech in background noise? Trouble visualizing or with visual memory tasks like spelling?

You can have the list you've described (strong student, etc.) and get diagnosed with an APD. Why's she still using so many audiobooks in 6th? It's ok, my dd did, but then again my dd now is diagnosed with APD. 😉  

Vocabulary is considered a marker for overall language development, so having discrepantly low scores *could* indicate something more is going on, a relative weakness. It's why you'd look at context, other things she's shying away from or having trouble with. And I'm a little surprised that she's not gaining vocabulary with the audiobook access. So both with auditory *and* visual inputs she's having trouble? 

Any other developmental differences or history there? Did she have speech therapy at any point?

No visual or auditory processing issues.  The audiobooks aren’t for school work, but we listen to them in the car and at bedtime

[LauraBeth475]

On 5/31/2021 at 10:11 AM, stripe said:

When you say she is a voracious reader, that doesn’t necessarily mean she’s reading things that would improve her vocabulary. And also, some people skip over what they don’t understand. So I would say, that is an important component. You might want to increase informational (non fiction) reading and listening. Listen to something aimed at an at least moderately educated adult audience. Watch shows like “Nature” or “Nova” on PBS. It helps if it’s about something she might be interested in, like, say, a rat driving a car. Try TED talks; there are a million of those. There are a lot of audiobooks of non-fiction topics, too. Try podcasts, like, for instance, Milk Street Radio. Watch Jeopardy! Try to solve NPR’s Sunday Puzzles. Add in anything that is more personal; I am trying to suggest pretty generic things since I don’t know what she’s interested in. See if your local public librarian can help; many can advise even if your library is closed. If you do these things together, or talk about it after she reads/listens/watches, it might lead to discussions, which might help her vocabulary. But if it’s a consistent problem, I would consider reaching out for help to make sure nothing is overlooked, or if there are more targeted things that might help her. 

These are great suggestions.  Maybe I should return to having at least some of her reading time mom-selected books

[Hunter]

Sometimes using a targeted curriculum does not fix a "problem". This is especially well documented with spelling programs. When a students does not perform at a "competitive" level in all areas, it does not necessarily mean there is a problem with instruction and/or access.

Human beings are not clones. Even with identical instruction, all humans do not develop on the same timetable and with the same strengths and weaknesses.

We do not try and force all students to perform gymnastics at a competitive level, but we have been been conditioned to expect them to perform competitively in all areas of some very specific areas of academics.

Be careful not to try and fix what is not broken: it can do more harm than good. Testing offers an opportunity to take a look at how a person compares to the norms. Academic remedies should be as carefully applied as medical remedies. First do no harm.

I am slow to prescribe vocabulary curricula.

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, Hunter said:

Sometimes using a targeted curriculum does not fix a "problem". This is especially well documented with spelling programs. When a students does not perform at a "competitive" level in all areas, it does not necessarily mean there is a problem with instruction and/or access.

Human beings are not clones. Even with identical instruction, all humans do not develop on the same timetable and with the same strengths and weaknesses.

We do not try and force all students to perform gymnastics at a competitive level, but we have been been conditioned to expect them to perform competitively in all areas of some very specific areas of academics.

Be careful not to try and fix what is not broken: it can do more harm than good. Testing offers an opportunity to take a look at how a person compares to the norms. Academic remedies should be as carefully applied as medical remedies. First do no harm.

I am slow to prescribe vocabulary curricula.

I don’t use curricula, period, but surely there’s a real advantage to a kid learning more words so that she can read more books she likes? 

Naturally, DH wouldn’t be able to play ANY sports, because he can only see a foot in front of his face, lol — he’s very nearsighted. And yet he’s an athletic guy who loved soccer in high school. There’s no virtue in only doing things in the “natural” way when this way interferes with a child’s pleasure in things...

[stripe]

2 hours ago, Hunter said:

We do not try and force all students to perform gymnastics at a competitive level, but we have been been conditioned to expect them to perform competitively in all areas of some very specific areas of academics.

You have very wise words of caution, but I am not sure if the OP wants her daughter to have an extraordinary vocabulary or one which allows her to function. 

On 5/29/2021 at 4:48 PM, LauraBeth475 said:

She regularly complains about people using big words that she doesn’t understand.

This suggests that she herself perceives a problem. I think perhaps a better concern would be a child who is late to walk or talk. Yes, some are ultimately fine. But most benefit from intervention rather than waiting to see if the silent child spontaneously speaks long brilliant prose at five. And yes, this intervention should be carefully chosen. 

[lulalu]

Reading aloud to you would provide a way to check understanding, and pronunciation of words. 

If she struggles with a word she wouldn't be able to just skip it. And you could define it right then. 

 

We have have had success with memorizing poetry and Scripture. This brings in a lot of new words. We make sure all the words and sentences are understood before memorizing. 

[Hunter]

I wish I knew more words, and lots of other things too. But new curricula that target those specific areas will not necessarily result in faster acquisition of that knowledge than what I am already using. There are a limited number of hours in a day, and even fewer hours that can be spent in intense direct study. And then there is the issue of money for new curriculum with big promises. Sometimes we can try harder and spend more money and accomplish less in the long run.

Years ago, I worked as a teacher's aid in the public school special needs early intervention preschool program. Despite the huge amounts of money and time invested in this program, the number of highly trained teachers and therapists, and the fancy methods, there was no difference in the children attending the program compared to the children not attending.

We cannot always fix every problem, and we have even less success fixing what was never broken at all: in medicine and child development and competitive schooling and many other areas.

[Hunter]

3 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

...surely there’s a real advantage to a kid learning more words so that she can read more books she likes? 

 

There is an advantage to knowing more words, IF the pursuit of this knowledge actually results in faster acquisition of new words and has no unexpected negative result in some other area. A homeschool is a bit like an ecosystem. We can disrupt a functioning ecosystem trying to make it "better".

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, Hunter said:

There is an advantage to knowing more words, IF the pursuit of this knowledge actually results in faster acquisition of new words and has no unexpected negative result in some other area. A homeschool is a bit like an ecosystem. We can disrupt a functioning ecosystem trying to make it "better".

That's fair. I'm cognizant that I'm coming at this from the perspective of our own homeschooling, in which the kids get a LOT of buy-in and we constantly tinker (sometimes, we tinker too much, frankly.) 

But I know I've spent lots of time on things that don't necessarily come naturally to my kids and have generally not been sorry I did. At least, not so far. We aren't anywhere near done homeschooling and we'll see what happens... 

 

21 minutes ago, Hunter said:

Years ago, I worked as a teacher's aid in the public school special needs early intervention preschool program. Despite the huge amounts of money and time invested in this program, the number of highly trained teachers and therapists, and the fancy methods, there was no difference in the children attending the program compared to the children not attending.

That must have been disappointing for everyone 😞 . I thought some kinds of early intervention do have good track records, though? 

As I've gotten older, I've mostly decided that "methods" aren't anywhere near as good as good teachers who are receptive to their learners. I fully believe that teachers like that have a real effect on students. But you can't replicate it. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[kbutton]

Marie's Words is a multisensory tool for learning vocabulary. I don't know how well it works, but it's flexible. https://www.rainbowresource.com/product/021838/Maries-Words-Picture-Words-In-a-Flash-Game.html

I would not drill them--I would make them into a word of the week (or day or whatever interval you like). If you like the idea, you could try to create your own word cards on the same principle with your DD. It could be fun.

I have a set I am getting rid of, which is what reminded me that they exist. We just never got around to them with the child that I bought them for, and the APD remediation helped take care of the problem. 

[Hunter]

4 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

That must have been disappointing for everyone 😞 . I thought some kinds of early intervention do have good track records, though? 

Early intervention programs that target SOCIALLY deprived children show conflicting results depending on who does the studies. The primary intent of programs for socially deprived students is access to vocabulary building opportunities not available in a socially deprived home.

Early intervention programs that bus pre-K children with moderate to severe developmental disorders to a public school for specialized attention disrupt access to the rich opportunities naturally available in the average home. 

[Not_a_Number]

5 hours ago, Hunter said:

Early intervention programs that target SOCIALLY deprived children show conflicting results depending on who does the studies. The primary intent of programs for socially deprived students is access to vocabulary building opportunities not available in a socially deprived home.

Early intervention programs that bus pre-K children with moderate to severe developmental disorders to a public school for specialized attention disrupt access to the rich opportunities naturally available in the average home. 

Ah, right. That makes sense -- I didn't think about the context. Thanks for clarifying. 

[Hunter]

I once met a homeschooling mother of a teenaged girl that had brain surgery when she was in middle school. Every year the girl's test scores in science and reading comprehension skills were low.

The school board kept pressuring the mom to respond to the low scores with a change in curriculum and methods. The mother refused. The school board asked her, "Why aren't you as concerned as we are?" The mother told them that she was MORE concerned than they were, but that she had completed all her research, and was entirely convinced that the curriculum and methods already in place were the absolutely best ones for her daughter.

When we receive low test scores, ONE of the options we must consider is to do NOTHING. No matter how dire the situation, just doing SOMETHING can make things worse. In the past, doctors have bled people and drilled holes in their heads, and now doctors poison people with drugs that cannot save them, because both doctors and patients believe that doing SOMETHING is ALWAYS better than doing nothing. The more dire the situation, the greater the pressure to respond in artificial and expensive and painful ways.

Sometimes, we need to just stay steady and on course with the route already planned. Sometimes we don't realize the fragility of our little ecosystem homes, until we disrupt everything to respond to a test score. I just want to point out that doing nothing IS an option.

[Not_a_Number]

11 minutes ago, Hunter said:

I once met a homeschooling mother of a teenaged girl that had brain surgery when she was in middle school. Every year the girl's test scores in science and reading comprehension skills were low.

The school board kept pressuring the mom to respond to the low scores with a change in curriculum and methods. The mother refused. The school board asked her, "Why aren't you as concerned as we are?" The mother told them that she was MORE concerned than they were, but that she had completed all her research, and was entirely convinced that the curriculum and methods already in place were the absolutely best ones for her daughter.

When we receive low test scores, ONE of the options we must consider is to do NOTHING. No matter how dire the situation, just doing SOMETHING can make things worse. In the past, doctors have bled people and drilled holes in their heads, and now doctors poison people with drugs that cannot save them, because both doctors and patients believe that doing SOMETHING is ALWAYS better than doing nothing. The more dire the situation, the greater the pressure to respond in artificial and expensive and painful ways.

Sometimes, we need to just stay steady and on course with the route already planned. Sometimes we don't realize the fragility of our little ecosystem homes, until we disrupt everything to respond to a test score. I just want to point out that doing nothing IS an option.

 

But sometimes, a test is simply information. Right now, the information is that a kid isn't absorbing words like her siblings. It doesn't mean something is WRONG. It just means that an approach that worked for others isn't working for her. 

I have 2 kids who both learned to read between 3 and 4. DD8 learned at that age because it was trivial for her, and DD5 learned because she really, really, really wanted to do whatever her big sister did. 

Halfway through 100EZ Lessons, I realized that DD5 was feeling overwhelmed, because while she's a natural whole word reader, she was having trouble telling letters apart. She was flying through sentences but stumbling on b vs. d. I think her hit rate on b vs. d was in fact precisely random -- 50%. Something wasn't quite working right. 

We could have quit, but she still wanted to learn to read. We could have pushed through the program, but she would have become more and more overwhelmed and unhappy. Or we could have figured out how to make things work and meet everyone's needs, which we did. We slowed things down. We did other things between lessons. We made sure she didn't get a distaste for reading but still got a robust phonics background. 

There are often options that are NOT nothing that can help a kid out when they are struggling. You don't always have to disrupt an ecosystem to remediate. And remediation done right can open up worlds. 

[Hunter]

10 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

There are often options that are NOT nothing that can help a kid out when they are struggling. You don't always have to disrupt an ecosystem to remediate. And remediation done right can open up worlds. 

I agree. There were many posts that already suggested all those other options. I just wanted to add ANOTHER option that was not being discussed at all.

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Hunter said:

I agree. There were many posts that already suggested all those other options. I just wanted to add ANOTHER option that was not being discussed at all.

I guess I think that doesn't seem like a good starting option. What I'd advocate instead is being flexible. Like, if adding things saps joy or creates more conflict than it's worth, you should be willing to give up -- you should be mindful of the "sunk cost" fallacy. But I wouldn't just start out by doing nothing. I'd do something and watch it fail first, you know? 😉 

[Hunter]

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I guess I think that doesn't seem like a good starting option. What I'd advocate instead is being flexible. Like, if adding things saps joy or creates more conflict than it's worth, you should be willing to give up -- you should be mindful of the "sunk cost" fallacy. But I wouldn't just start out by doing nothing. I'd do something and watch it fail first, you know? 😉 

I would not start and end my RESEARCH at nothing. But I have learned that it is sometimes best to start my CHANGES at nothing.

When I was younger, I thought I had to try and fail some medical treatments, before I could earn permission to discontinue them. Then I got smarter and started refusing to even try treatments, IF my research convinced me that the rewards would not outweigh the cost and risk of trying a new thing.

That mom I met was not popular with the school board. They did not like her steadiness when she was so obviously "failing". She was not easily angered, but she turned mother-bear over protecting her child's right to continue with the present methods. This mom had done her RESEARCH. She knew what parts of her daughter's brain had been removed. Her daughter was already functioning higher than expected. The school board labeled her methods a failure; she labeled them a success.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Hunter said:

I would not start and end my RESEARCH at nothing. But I have learned that it is sometimes best to start my CHANGES at nothing.

When I was younger, I thought I had to try and fail some medical treatments, before I could earn permission to discontinue them. Then I got smarter and started refusing to even try treatments, IF my research convinced me that the rewards would not outweigh the cost and risk of trying a new thing.

That mom I met was not popular with the school board. They did not like her steadiness when she was so obviously "failing". She was not easily angered, but she turned mother-bear over protecting her child's right to continue with the present methods. This mom had done her RESEARCH. She knew what parts of her daughter's brain had been removed. Her daughter was already functioning higher than expected. The school board labeled her methods a failure; she labeled them a success.

But how would one know in this specific case whether a change would help without trying?

[Hunter]

There is too much about the OP's situation that I do not know. And her situation is none of my business. Her homeschool; her choice. I simply added another OPTION to a list of options that were being discussed. No one else had to defend adding their option to the list.

I don't believe forums are appropriate places to judge other people or think we know what they should do. I think forums are places to share information and explore options that we had not previously considered.

Doing nothing is just an OPTION to DISCUSS, alongside a list of other options. Doing nothing is not an option that must be earned. I learned in trauma recovery that I do not need to earn permission to do or not do something. I have the right to choose for myself even if I cannot prove that my way is superior. 

Anyone reading this thread and exploring vocabulary development methods has a list of options to consider. There is no default list that we must fail our way through before choosing the option we feel is best for our own situation. We have the right to start with the one we feel is best for us.

[Not_a_Number]

No one has to earn the right to do anything and no one needs my approval here. We're all independent beings 🙂 . I just have a very different gut reaction to this situation than you do. 

[LauraBeth475]

Alright, I think we’re going to give English from the Roots Up a try.  See about teaching her to look at words more analytically

[Lori D.]

2 hours ago, LauraBeth475 said:

Alright, I think we’re going to give English from the Roots Up a try.  See about teaching her to look at words more analytically

Have fun! 😄 

You can also extend the "game" by actively looking for words that contain the root (or roots) that you are studying that week -- in readers, read-alouds, signs/billboards as you're driving -- maybe even someone using a word based on that root when you're watching a movie or TV show. Reading or hearing the word in context provides additional understanding, and nuance of meaning. (Just be sure to keep any extension like that casual and not overdo, so that your child feels like she is "on" for "school" 24/7. 😉 )