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Possibly of interest regarding a “conspiracy” type claim - possibly vaccine related. Or not


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15 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

Voter ID is not a poll tax.  We have Voter ID in my state and have had it for at least 6 years.  We have free voter ID drives.  So no it doesn't cost anything.

The documents you need to get the free ID cost money.

8 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re dementia and documentation

I hope the standalone B does the trick, in managing to get her a birth certificate.

 

I remain curious whether in her state, getting a gun permit would serve as a workaround (to vote -- I understand that in her case the issue is flying).  It's not like getting a gun permit means the person then has to get a gun. I've never considered that option before -- If that's a route that enables easier access to voting, that's a route that voting advocates could usefully share with poorer / less work-hour-flexible people.

Depends on the state - to get a permit here involves being fingerprinted and taking a class on gun safety/use which costs a fee and involves getting to he 4 hour class, etc. They sometimes have it set up at gun shows where you can get it all done at once, but that costs even more. It's not a low cost or low time option in my state. I mean, probably easier than tracking down a missing birth certificate for some, but more expensive for sure. 

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Posted (edited)

re logistics / expense of getting a gun permit, vs getting birth certificate / change of name / change of address documentation required for a Voter ID, prior to registeing to vote

20 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

The documents you need to get the free ID cost money.

Depends on the state - to get a permit here involves being fingerprinted and taking a class on gun safety/use which costs a fee and involves getting to he 4 hour class, etc. They sometimes have it set up at gun shows where you can get it all done at once, but that costs even more. It's not a low cost or low time option in my state. I mean, probably easier than tracking down a missing birth certificate for some, but more expensive for sure. 

That appears to be the case here as well; and the initial permit (good for 5 years) costs $70, which is roughly comparable to the OOP cost of two 3-year term drivers' licenses.

Once you have a gun permit, though, it is renewable by mail and you can change your address online, so the cost & logistics going forward is substantially cheaper/easier than having to re-appear in person and get a new state ID every time your old one expires/your information changes.

 

(I'm just musing off-topic here... I've never considered the idea of proactively encouraging the use of gun permits solely for voter ID purposes. Certainly, it does not meed the needs that @skimomma 's mother has, for flying.  But if there are states where it IS cheaper/easier, there's no reason why voter advocacy groups shouldn't be encouraging that route.  If a workaround works, work it.)

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42 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

The documents you need to get the free ID cost money.

Depends on the state - to get a permit here involves being fingerprinted and taking a class on gun safety/use which costs a fee and involves getting to he 4 hour class, etc. They sometimes have it set up at gun shows where you can get it all done at once, but that costs even more. It's not a low cost or low time option in my state. I mean, probably easier than tracking down a missing birth certificate for some, but more expensive for sure. 

Is that for concealed carry?  My husband only needed to wait 10 min for a background check to come back and we took home a hand gun.  He only needs to get a permit if he wants to carry concealed.  

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3 minutes ago, HeartString said:

Is that for concealed carry?  My husband only needed to wait 10 min for a background check to come back and we took home a hand gun.  He only needs to get a permit if he wants to carry concealed.  

I think that depends on your state. 

It sounds like your state doesn't even have a waiting period. Other states are much more regulated and restrictive. (Ours is, and I like it that way!)

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re background checks, v actual permits

15 minutes ago, HeartString said:

Is that for concealed carry?  My husband only needed to wait 10 min for a background check to come back and we took home a hand gun.  He only needs to get a permit if he wants to carry concealed.  

So, then, in his case, did he end up with any kind of written verification that the background check had come back OK?  And if so, do you know if that would suffice to meet voter ID requirements in your state?

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3 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

BTW, I expect you are anxiously awaiting report on how the peach trees I procured upon your counsel are faring.  To my astonishment, they are setting fruit this year (even though they're teeny tiny itty bitty things that look like they'd topple over on the weight of a peach.)  I count the fruit daily: 31 on one tree, 27 on the other.  At the moment most of them are a bit bigger than the standard walnut...

WOW!!! 🤩 

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51 minutes ago, HeartString said:

Is that for concealed carry?  My husband only needed to wait 10 min for a background check to come back and we took home a hand gun.  He only needs to get a permit if he wants to carry concealed.  

Yes, for concealed carry. Just buying a gun and passing a background check won't give you an ID like a concealed carry does. 

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I just got my passport partially because it was easier than getting the real ID.  Their are more locations of the post office.  There are  only 2 DOL offices.  It would take 3 buses plus some walking if you didn't have transportation to get from my town to the next town that has the office.  I also didn't have to show my marriage license for the passport even though my birth certificate says my maiden name and my social says my married name.  But the passport card costs more and still requires quite a bit of paperwork and some place to receive mail.

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29 minutes ago, rebcoola said:

I just got my passport partially because it was easier than getting the real ID.  Their are more locations of the post office.  There are  only 2 DOL offices.  It would take 3 buses plus some walking if you didn't have transportation to get from my town to the next town that has the office.  I also didn't have to show my marriage license for the passport even though my birth certificate says my maiden name and my social says my married name.  But the passport card costs more and still requires quite a bit of paperwork and some place to receive mail.

So if I renew my passport do I still have to upgrade my DL to a real id?

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4 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

So if I renew my passport do I still have to upgrade my DL to a real id?

Not if you're cool with bringing your passport every time you fly domestically.

Ordinarily in CT we need to show up IRL to renew our drivers' licenses, so as to update the picture; but during the height of COVID they were doing it online, just re-issuing the old picture from files... so when I got my new DL, it's no longer realID.  So if/when I resume domestic flights, I'll just schlep the passport... shrug.  I'm still pretty disinclined to fly (anywhere) so I figure I can manage until the next renewal cycle.

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1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

So if I renew my passport do I still have to upgrade my DL to a real id?

No you can use passport or passport card.  I got the passport card to use for flying domestic and ferry to Canada.

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Ok all, jumping back in here.  Sorry for the delay - I don’t tend to hang out here that frequently.  I read through all the comments I’d missed since posting last, but admit I just skimmed the past two pages since it looks like the conversation digressed into another topic.

I don’t know how to quote multiple posts, but thank you to the few who haven’t assumed I’m somehow incompetent at giving an accurate description of what we saw 🙂 

Again I say, I am not a theorist; I‘m actually quite sane and opposed to anything that smacks of conspiracy theories.  I’m not on here purposefully to spread propaganda or anything.  I do realize it is impossible to get a handle of who people are on here, but for those who have doubted, I do ask you at least respect my intelligence 🙂 

At our class on Tuesday we did get a video of one of the ladies whose last shot was 3-4 weeks ago (or so).  It was taken on my instructor’s phone (I should have brought in my iPad, but didn’t think of it). She can text it to me, but not email it.  I have my “semi smart phone” turned into a “dumb” phone on purpose.  If I turn on WiFi would I be able to email it from my text to my email address?  

The pull on hers wasn’t as strong as it was two weeks ago, but it still did stick.  It was a “pull” (though slight) sensation, not a “stick to bandaid” sensation. On Thursday there was a woman who had one shot in each arm (all others had both in the same arm), the most recent one being a month ago.  This one *sort of* stuck, but not convincingly enough for me compared to the others.

This was a light attendance week with it being after Memorial Day.  I’m hoping more are there next week who wouldn’t mind videoing.

We did try it on myself, both arms, and there was no evidence of the “pull” anywhere in the areas we found it on others.

 

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On 6/3/2021 at 10:17 PM, Catwoman said:

I’m sorry, Faith, but this is simply not true.

When a woman gets divorced in Michigan, all she has to do is notify the judge that she wants to change her name back to her maiden name, and her name will be changed as part of the divorce decree.

The ex-husband has absolutely nothing to do with it, and he has no say whatsoever in the matter.

Additionally, if the woman wants to keep her married name after her divorce, her ex-husband is not able to force her to change it.

Your hair stylist was lying to you — or maybe she just likes to make up big, dramatic stories to keep people from getting bored while she cuts their hair! 😃

 

I live here, and that is not true. While what you may see on paper as the law, we have a very misogynistic court system and divorced women are routinely, at least in my county, told they have to get their ex husband's permission - and there is a form for this - to drop their married name and revert back. I have seen the copy of the form my hairstylist had to use, with his notarized signature on it. She keeps it to worn young women not to change their names after they marry. And I do know the judge unfortunately due to a legal case involving our niece. He is not the only misogynistic prick we have on the bench!

My sister, who lived in a different state at the time of her divorce from a very abusive man, also had to petition the court to change back to her maiden name, and the judge required the signature of her ex husband as part of the divorce proceedings since it went to trial. They were only married three years, and had no children. Yet the judge, male, expressed shock that she even wanted to change her name back. 

So whatever you have heard or read on paper as "the law" is not how it practiced by all family courts.

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18 hours ago, Trilliumlady said:

Ok all, jumping back in here.  Sorry for the delay - I don’t tend to hang out here that frequently.  I read through all the comments I’d missed since posting last, but admit I just skimmed the past two pages since it looks like the conversation digressed into another topic.

I don’t know how to quote multiple posts, but thank you to the few who haven’t assumed I’m somehow incompetent at giving an accurate description of what we saw 🙂 

Again I say, I am not a theorist; I‘m actually quite sane and opposed to anything that smacks of conspiracy theories.  I’m not on here purposefully to spread propaganda or anything.  I do realize it is impossible to get a handle of who people are on here, but for those who have doubted, I do ask you at least respect my intelligence 🙂 

At our class on Tuesday we did get a video of one of the ladies whose last shot was 3-4 weeks ago (or so).  It was taken on my instructor’s phone (I should have brought in my iPad, but didn’t think of it). She can text it to me, but not email it.  I have my “semi smart phone” turned into a “dumb” phone on purpose.  If I turn on WiFi would I be able to email it from my text to my email address?  

The pull on hers wasn’t as strong as it was two weeks ago, but it still did stick.  It was a “pull” (though slight) sensation, not a “stick to bandaid” sensation. On Thursday there was a woman who had one shot in each arm (all others had both in the same arm), the most recent one being a month ago.  This one *sort of* stuck, but not convincingly enough for me compared to the others.

This was a light attendance week with it being after Memorial Day.  I’m hoping more are there next week who wouldn’t mind videoing.

We did try it on myself, both arms, and there was no evidence of the “pull” anywhere in the areas we found it on others.

 

Re: the people with magnetic arms...  did they all have the same brand of vax?   What was it? 

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On 6/4/2021 at 12:31 PM, ktgrok said:

So if I renew my passport do I still have to upgrade my DL to a real id?

No, and I am not doing it.  I have a military ID and a passport.  NO reason to waste a day going to the driver's license office.

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On 6/4/2021 at 4:28 PM, Trilliumlady said:

Ok all, jumping back in here.  Sorry for the delay - I don’t tend to hang out here that frequently.  I read through all the comments I’d missed since posting last, but admit I just skimmed the past two pages since it looks like the conversation digressed into another topic.

I don’t know how to quote multiple posts, but thank you to the few who haven’t assumed I’m somehow incompetent at giving an accurate description of what we saw 🙂 

Again I say, I am not a theorist; I‘m actually quite sane and opposed to anything that smacks of conspiracy theories.  I’m not on here purposefully to spread propaganda or anything.  I do realize it is impossible to get a handle of who people are on here, but for those who have doubted, I do ask you at least respect my intelligence 🙂 

At our class on Tuesday we did get a video of one of the ladies whose last shot was 3-4 weeks ago (or so).  It was taken on my instructor’s phone (I should have brought in my iPad, but didn’t think of it). She can text it to me, but not email it.  I have my “semi smart phone” turned into a “dumb” phone on purpose.  If I turn on WiFi would I be able to email it from my text to my email address?  

The pull on hers wasn’t as strong as it was two weeks ago, but it still did stick.  It was a “pull” (though slight) sensation, not a “stick to bandaid” sensation. On Thursday there was a woman who had one shot in each arm (all others had both in the same arm), the most recent one being a month ago.  This one *sort of* stuck, but not convincingly enough for me compared to the others.

This was a light attendance week with it being after Memorial Day.  I’m hoping more are there next week who wouldn’t mind videoing.

We did try it on myself, both arms, and there was no evidence of the “pull” anywhere in the areas we found it on others.

 

This is why scientific studies are blinded.

It is very easy for a human brain to feel a "pull" where it expects to feel and pull, and to feel none where it expects none. 

When studies are not blinded (as your little trial was not) the results are far too easily influenced in the direction we anticipate.

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re structure of scientific method vs (normal, human) tendency toward confirmation bias

50 minutes ago, maize said:

This is why scientific studies are blinded.

It is very easy for a human brain to feel a "pull" where it expects to feel and pull, and to feel none where it expects none. 

When studies are not blinded (as your little trial was not) the results are far too easily influenced in the direction we anticipate.

Kate Starbird (who, despite her implausibly Marvel name, is a dead-serious researcher of disinformation systems) writes often about the differences between the

  • structure of the scientific method (question -> hypothesis -> development of a replicable test to assess the hypothesis -> testing/measurement/publication of both method and results -> replication of test by others -> validation (or not) of results by others.... -> modification of hypothesis or test by others -> tweaking of hypothesis -> rinse lather repeat until the end of time...)     which is a REALLY COMPLEX TIME CONSUMING LABORIOUS PROCESS SUBJECT TO CONFLICT AND DISAGREEMENT, vs
  • structure of disinformation (claim -> substantiation)     which is vastly shorter and easier.

There are no shortcuts.

When you see the latter, without any of the former, such as blinding or sufficient specificity around the method that the "substantiation" can be replicated by others... it's a tell.

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