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My dd(16) and I are in a disagreement over her plans to have an indoor movie night with friends next month at a friend’s house. She will be fully vaccinated by then (our whole household is vaccinated). There would be 8 teens total watching a movie in an average sized family room. Two besides dd are fully vaccinated. One will be partially vaccinated. Two will not be vaccinated because their parents won’t let them, and two currently have Covid right now. This event is planned 3 weeks from today.

I don’t think this is a great idea because of the lack of space, ventilation, and likelihood of sharing food. Dd thinks I’m being unreasonable because she is vaccinated. Maybe I am. She has been really good and patient during this whole pandemic and only seen her friends rarely and masked/distanced/outdoors or online. She has seen no one other than our household indoors. I know she’s had a hard time, but this set up makes me really anxious. 

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Carol in Cal. said:

2 have Covid right now?  That’s just nuts.  They should not be attending.  Full stop.

Yes, two currently have Covid. It’s not at their house, but they would be attending.

ETA: the two tested positive last weekend. Their whole family was positive, but they are no longer ill. 

Edited by HSmomof2
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So, at that point, in a month, 2 vaccinated, 2 immune from being infected (I know we don't know how long antibodies last, but surely more than a few weeks), 1 partially vaccinated (and one is very protective), and 2 not vaccinated. 

I think a room with 8 kids, 6 that are vaccinated/have antibodies, is probably just fine. I mean, i totally get it, but at some point you need to let her move forward. She's vaccinated and most of the people there will be immune. Unless you say she can only do indoor stuff with vaccinated/immune people...which is reasonable, but may put her in a really hard place. She did the right thing, she got vaccinated. You are vaccinated. I'd let her go. 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

So, at that point, in a month, 2 vaccinated, 2 immune from being infected (I know we don't know how long antibodies last, but surely more than a few weeks), 1 partially vaccinated (and one is very protective), and 2 not vaccinated. 

I think a room with 8 kids, 6 that are vaccinated/have antibodies, is probably just fine. I mean, i totally get it, but at some point you need to let her move forward. She's vaccinated and most of the people there will be immune. Unless you say she can only do indoor stuff with vaccinated/immune people...which is reasonable, but may put her in a really hard place. She did the right thing, she got vaccinated. You are vaccinated. I'd let her go. 

This is pretty much what dh says, too. The two currently positive will be better, and dd is vaccinated anyway. I would have preferred to ease back in a little more, but my concerns may be more anxiety based than science based. 
 

ETA: health anxiety and a pandemic have made for a rough year. I am so thankful for the vaccines. It will get easier for me, and I will chill out. 

Edited by HSmomof2
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I'm letting my vaccinated teens do this sort of thing.

In our community, we will likely never be in a place where the majority of their peers are vaccinated.

They've been careful, like your daughter, for over a year now. That's such a long time, particularly at their age. They are going forward.

There is always a chance of infection of course, but I don't feel particularly anxious about it. Their grandparents and dad and I are vaccinated. I'm thankful the vaccines appear to be so effective. This would be a lot harder if that weren't the case. 

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I would not in that close a quarters, but I don't feel this is anywhere near over.  DH and I are vaxed, my dad is vaxed, my boys had their 1st shots.  But...that doesn't mean we are doing much of anything indoors with other people, even if they are vaxed.  My guys know that would be a hard no for me at this time, but I am letting them start swim team again so they are happy.  

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2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Genuinely....why not?

 

The reason I asked the OP is because different people have different concerns.  Does she have someone that they are close to that has other risk factors?  Is there reason to believe that any of the other kids are lying?  Is there something else going on?

 

The OP might have specific concerns that might be met with different information. 

Because I don’t believe that the vaccine testing has demonstrated 100% efficacy.  Because I don’t think people with active Covid cases should be out and about.  Because the case could be a variant that the vaccine doesn’t prevent, just mitigates.  Because this is a nasty illness all around.

 

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13 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Boy, I dunno that I’d want to mix with active cases even with a vaccine.  

But they tested positive a week ago, and the event isn't for another few weeks, so wouldn't be considered active cases anymore. 

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9 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Boy, I dunno that I’d want to mix with active cases even with a vaccine.  

Who are the active cases??

The two who have it now tested positive a week ago. They don’t have symptoms now. The gathering is “next month,” so presumably over a week away. So by that point a minimum of two weeks will have gone by. I’ve forgotten quarantine recommendations, but I believe they’ll be well past them. 

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Posted (edited)

I would let her go.

 In 3 weeks the kids with Covid will be over it and immune.  To continue to avoid them 3 weeks from now sounds a bit like stigmatizing them.  At what point will they be safe? 
 

6 of the 8 kids will be vaccinated or immune, including your daughter.  Even if one of the 2 unvaccinated kids is infected that night there is such a tiny chance of a break through infection in your daughter and and even tinier chance that a break through infection would make her ill.  Tiny tiny.  
 

I remember well the hell I caused as a teenager when I *knew* my parents were being objectively unreasonable.  It feels like control for controls sake and it was very damaging to that relationship.  

Edited by HeartString
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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Who are the active cases??

The two who have it now tested positive a week ago. They don’t have symptoms now. The gathering is “next month,” so presumably over a week away. So by that point a minimum of two weeks will have gone by. I’ve forgotten quarantine recommendations, but I believe they’ll be well past them. 

Yes, the currently positive teens were diagnosed over a week ago, so when this event occurs, they will be 5 weeks past their positive test. They currently don’t have symptoms any longer and only had very mild ones to begin with. 

Edited by HSmomof2
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19 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Genuinely....why not?

 

The reason I asked the OP is because different people have different concerns.  Does she have someone that they are close to that has other risk factors?  Is there reason to believe that any of the other kids are lying?  Is there something else going on?

 

The OP might have specific concerns that might be met with different information. 

 

 

ETA:  To be clear.....the OP isn't talking about mixing with active cases anyway, but I ask because you mention it.

Honestly, I think it’s me being anxious more than anything else. And I will need to get over that. Dh is fine with her going, and he works in public health and takes Covid very seriously. Dh, ds, and I are a month past our second shots, so we’re fully vaccinated. I think we’re only higher risk due to being overweight. I have some autoimmune issues, but don’t think they make me have a higher risk, since I don’t take steroids or immunosuppressants. My parents that we see frequently have also been vaccinated. Our main circle of frequent contacts have all been vaccinated.  There’s also a decent chance the weather will be nice then, and they’ll watch the movie with the outdoor projector in friend’s backyard. 

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I would say yes. I think the risk in this situation with her being vaccinated and everyone in your family being vaccinated is really low. The vaccine is not 100% but it is almost that against severe disease and transmission. So even in a worse case scenario where she contacted Covid, the risk of severe disease for her or anyone else in your family is tiny. It's not zero, but is probably pretty close. 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, HSmomof2 said:

Honestly, I think it’s me being anxious more than anything else. And I will need to get over that. Dh is fine with her going, and he works in public health and takes Covid very seriously. Dh, ds, and I are a month past our second shots, so we’re fully vaccinated. I think we’re only higher risk due to being overweight. I have some autoimmune issues, but don’t think they make me have a higher risk, since I don’t take steroids or immunosuppressants. My parents that we see frequently have also been vaccinated. Our main circle of frequent contacts have all been vaccinated.  There’s also a decent chance the weather will be nice then, and they’ll watch the movie with the outdoor projector in friend’s backyard. 

I think we’re all going to be struggling with the anxiety of going back to normal.  It’s hard to flip the switch from “lock it ALL down” to “normal”. I walked into Aldi’s with no mask today and was a bit freaked out.  I had planned to mask but a last minute vehicle change meant we had no masks with us and driving back to get them seemed silly when we are vaccinated.  This next phase is going to bumpy.  But we *do* have to get through it.  

Edited by HeartString
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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Danae said:

The event is three weeks in the future.

How did I miss that??? I am so clueless!

I had originally agreed with Carol, but I was thinking the event was coming up soon, not next month. I wonder if Carol missed that part, too!  🙂 

Edited by Catwoman
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I might be ok with this if Covid kids were fully recovered and testing negative and local levels were at the point of dwindling (r naught hopefully well below 1)   Especially once my teen hits 4 weeks post 2nd vaccine.  

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Has she done anything else indoors with vaccinated friends first? I think I would arrange something like that with one of her vaccinated friends soon, as a way of easing up. I understand how it’s hard to go from not seeing anyone indoors to having a big group over inside; that would be hard for me as well. We’re slowly easing back in so we can get used to things and find our comfort level. We have just had our first (vaccinated) indoor visitor, and it did feel weird to break that barrier. 

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59 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Boy, I dunno that I’d want to mix with active cases even with a vaccine.  

A few weeks from now and they were diagnosed last weekend? Those are immune kids, not active cases. 

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I'd let her go. 

No vaccine is going to be 100%.  No vaccine has ever been 100% effective. The kids who tested positive won't have active cases next month. There have been and always will be unvaccinated people in the world because there are people contraindicated for vaccines due to allergies to ingredients, being immuno-compromised (no, immuno-compromised people don't live in plastic bubbles,) and some people are opposed to vaccinations for various reasons.  Assuming your kid isn't medically fragile and no one in your household is, odds are kid will pull through Covid even on the off chance she gets it. 

This is where we're going to be on this from here on out.  The people who won't get the vaccine will probably not change their minds. It's time we all got on with life.

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36 minutes ago, KSera said:

Has she done anything else indoors with vaccinated friends first? I think I would arrange something like that with one of her vaccinated friends soon, as a way of easing up. I understand how it’s hard to go from not seeing anyone indoors to having a big group over inside; that would be hard for me as well. We’re slowly easing back in so we can get used to things and find our comfort level. We have just had our first (vaccinated) indoor visitor, and it did feel weird to break that barrier. 

Dd gets her second shot this week, so she won’t be fully vaccinated until about June 7th, so we haven’t done anything indoors yet. But that’s a good idea.....😊

11 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I didn’t realize that Covid was considered non contagious so fast.  

It’s not how it has been managed locally that I know of, but things have been shifting so fast that maybe it is now.

It’s still a quarantine for 10 days after the positive test (or longer with symptoms), but I don’t think most people are actually contagious probably even for 10 days, especially without symptoms. 
 
Dh also mentioned she’s probably at a greater risk driving to and from this event (she’s a newly licensed driver)... 😳😳 I think that was supposed to make me feel better.....I’m not sure I’ll survive the teen/young adult years.

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I’d let her go too. 
But I’ve been all in since my household got vaccinated. I prefer visiting outdoors and outside dining. But if I can’t, for now I’m relying on the vaccine to do its job and keep me safe. Of course anything can happen to anyone with this virus, but my parents were the true concern. They’ve both had covid and are fully vaccinated. So, we’re being pretty free. This has 6 of 8 participants pretty well protected. I would let my vaccinated child go for sure. 

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Posted (edited)

I would say yes too. The two currently still in their post cv stage should by time of event have good immunity to your actual local and recent form of virus and should not be a problem. Your Dd should be protected from a severe case in the remote chance she were to catch cv. Emotional health and friendship is important too, and even affects immunity. 

Edited by Pen
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If no more of the kids get Covid between now and then it would most likely be ok.  I think even with the Indian variant the Moderna vaccine is looking about 86pc effective so I would think the chance is really low of anything happening.  If you have someone immune compromised in the house I might be concerned.

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14 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

If no more of the kids get Covid between now and then it would most likely be ok.  I think even with the Indian variant the Moderna vaccine is looking about 86pc effective so I would think the chance is really low of anything happening.  If you have someone immune compromised in the house I might be concerned.

None of this group have seen the two currently positive for at least 3 weeks, so no exposures there, and the two positive are quarantining with their family. 

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9 hours ago, HeartString said:

I think we’re all going to be struggling with the anxiety of going back to normal.  It’s hard to flip the switch from “lock it ALL down” to “normal”. I walked into Aldi’s with no mask today and was a bit freaked out.  I had planned to mask but a last minute vehicle change meant we had no masks with us and driving back to get them seemed silly when we are vaccinated.  This next phase is going to bumpy.  But we *do* have to get through it.  

Yes. I think the adjustment is a HUGE part of the freak out that's occurred. It's sort of like taking the training wheels off of a bicycle. The masks have been our training wheels for over a year now. It's hard to let go, even though for most vaccinated people it's a safe thing to do. (Not a great analogy, I know. But it's early. 😉 )

 

7 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I'd let them go, and I'm immunocompromised and I have an unvaccinated child.  I trust in the vaccine.

Ditto to the bolded.

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I would let her go.  I agree with Alice that there is almost no chance of her getting it and even less of it being severe (because of both her age and the vaccine.) The vaccine is really really good. That’s why you had her get it. 

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I'll add that I'm one that is preaching, "hey, vaccine is not 100%, only 95%!!!" to the rafters. But thats in large crowds/groups where the chance of someone being positive is pretty high. (positivity only recently went below 10% here - currently still over 6% - would feel differently in areas with lower positivity). The chances of those two specific girls being positive on that day, AND it getting past your daughter's vaccine is so small. Also, that 95% or whatever is across the board, including older individuals who have a less strong immune response. Your daughter is young and healthy so should have had a very strong response, so it is likely much more effective in her than the average. 

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12 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Boy, I dunno that I’d want to mix with active cases even with a vaccine.  

They won't be active cases at the time of the get-together.  They will be immune people just like dd16.

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I would allow, unless there is a personal reason to be extremely careful (someone especially high risk in your home).

The risk to your daughter is close to nil.  The risk to the unvaxed kids depends on what's going on locally.  But if their families are OK with it, you shouldn't worry about them.

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For myself, I finally felt that I had to trust that the vaccine works or not. So I'm not longer masking in places where it is not mandatory. But if it was my child in this position, I just don't know. That's a hard one for sure. My heart goes out to all parents making these sorts of decisions right now.

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I'd be ok with it - vermont is pretty strict with Covid restrictions and right now the recommendation is no more than 1 unvaccinated person per group per 50 sq feet of space. Which is kind of weird, but unless the room is smaller than 10x10, you'd be fine here having 2 unvaccinated people in a room.

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I'd be okay with it... I guess... I think I'd be more concerned about hanging out with a lot of families who weren't planning to vaccinate in general. The vaccine works really well, but also, it's not foolproof and you can still get Covid and can still circulate Covid to others. The more people in your immediate circle who you spend a bunch of time with who refuse to vax mean your chances keep going up, regardless of how effective the vaccine is. But also, a kid has the friends they have. It's tough.

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15 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I'd be okay with it... I guess... I think I'd be more concerned about hanging out with a lot of families who weren't planning to vaccinate in general. The vaccine works really well, but also, it's not foolproof and you can still get Covid and can still circulate Covid to others. The more people in your immediate circle who you spend a bunch of time with who refuse to vax mean your chances keep going up, regardless of how effective the vaccine is. But also, a kid has the friends they have. It's tough.

The two unvaccinated are from the same household. Their parents are vaccinated, the parent are just not sure yet that they want their teens to get it. Thankfully all her other friends are vaccinated or have at least one shot so far. 

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Adding: asymptomatic transmission of wild virus from unvaccinated people seems to have been exaggerated as a risk so the probability is if the two unvaccinated kids seem outwardly well the risk there is minuscule.  
 

A nephew of mine, for example, got cv (from a friend) but did not pass it on to other family members not even his brother with whom he spends far more time indoors than the gathering you have described— and also, he was barely sick himself (fwiw their Vitamin D is good)
 

Vaccinated people may be able to transmit CV, or who knows what, but your Dd is unlikely to be particularly at risk from that. It currently seems unvaccinated are more at risk from that and that’s their own decision to make.

 

My teenager has been getting together socially with people, both vaccinated and not, some recovered from earlier infections. They seem to all be doing okay. And I think the friendship contacts are extremely important.
 

Positive emotions Themselves can help substantially to boost immunity. 
 

My boy was in a bad car crash during the whole cv situation which also helped to put things into perspective.  And at least in our area I am sure car accidents are a much bigger risk than cv regardless of vaccines status. 
 

I do not mean to worry you about cars instead of Covid. I suggest some prayer, and positive visioning of healthy and happy results for all involved. 

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18 minutes ago, HSmomof2 said:

The two unvaccinated are from the same household. Their parents are vaccinated, the parent are just not sure yet that they want their teens to get it. Thankfully all her other friends are vaccinated or have at least one shot so far. 

This new info would make me even more sure of my decision to let her go (as I said upthread.)  There is an even smaller chance being that they are from the same household, half or so of the family is protected (and not likely to have given them anything). The fact they are vaccinated makes me think they have taken the virus seriously and are likely somewhat cautious. I really wouldn't even worry about it.

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