Charles Dickens which from this list?

[cintinative]

@Lori D. see eilonwy's post

[cintinative]

We have not started any Dickens yet. I am leaning toward David Copperfield though. I had considered Oliver Twist because it is shorter but I like the story of David Copperfield and decided to give that one an attempt. We are going to work though some other stuff first though.

[Eilonwy]

7 hours ago, cintinative said:

We have not started any Dickens yet. I am leaning toward David Copperfield though. I had considered Oliver Twist because it is shorter but I like the story of David Copperfield and decided to give that one an attempt. We are going to work though some other stuff first though.

At this point, I’d definitely recommend going with the story you like. But maybe it gets better… 

I’m reading Pickwick Papers on the side myself, and it is much lighter, even though the main character ends up in jail and the courts are unjust. 

[Kassia]

13 minutes ago, Eilonwy said:

At this point, I’d definitely recommend going with the story you like. But maybe it gets better… 

I’m reading Pickwick Papers on the side myself, and it is much lighter, even though the main character ends up in jail and the courts are unjust. 

Pickwick Papers is DH's favorite Dickens book.  Dd and I like A Tale of Two Cities best.  

[cintinative]

52 minutes ago, Kassia said:

Pickwick Papers is DH's favorite Dickens book.  Dd and I like A Tale of Two Cities best.  

My oldest is reading that for  a class next year.  😃 

[Farrar]

I have. I read it with one of my own and then with a whole class last year.

It was enjoyed a great deal by my teen. He liked the story and Dickens's dry wit that runs through it. We had some good conversations about the Anti-Semitism. It was a mixed one in my class, but several kids really enjoyed it. One wrote her big literary analysis research paper on it and the way that Dickens contrasts the characters. She thought Oliver was a complete nothing of a sniveling character, but thought that the way Dickens used him to create a social novel was interesting. The class where we spent an hour discussing it was pretty good. I showed snippets of multiple different film versions and the kids thought that was interesting - the way that our perspective on a Victorian story can change over time.

But any time something is just killing you, I vote to drop it.

[Kassia]

@Farrarsounds like a fantastic class.  I wish all literature classes were like yours!

[Porridge]

On 10/19/2021 at 8:47 AM, Eilonwy said:

Update on Dickens progress following discussion on this thread: currently about a third of the way through Oliver Twist with my 13 yo (read aloud).  And it is grim, grim, grim.  Between the child abuse and anti-semitism on every page, we’re not sure we should keep going.  For anyone that has read it with a young teen, does it get better?  
 

Or should we bail out now?

It gets darker- there is a graphic domestic violence related murder.  When we read it, we did so with a lot, a lot of discussion about the disturbing issues encountered in the book — anti semitism, child labor, child abused, domestic violence, etc. I edited the murder scene when I read it aloud to make it less disturbing. In retrospect I would have waited (my kid was younger) but I think she could handle it at 13 (with lots of discussion) .  Would your child be curious to finish the book if you decide to stop? Mine would clamor to finish it because they’d be wondering why we stopped. That happened with one of Poe’s short stories — the saw it referenced somewhere and then asked to read it. I said no, which only piqued their curiosity. In the end we read it together with lots of discussion (it was the cask of amontillado)

[Eilonwy]

On 10/27/2021 at 11:30 AM, WTM said:

It gets darker- there is a graphic domestic violence related murder.  When we read it, we did so with a lot, a lot of discussion about the disturbing issues encountered in the book — anti semitism, child labor, child abused, domestic violence, etc. I edited the murder scene when I read it aloud to make it less disturbing. In retrospect I would have waited (my kid was younger) but I think she could handle it at 13 (with lots of discussion) .  Would your child be curious to finish the book if you decide to stop?

Maybe I should pre-read the murder.  I knew it was there but not that it was graphic.  Sikes’ repeated abuse of Nancy has already turned up.  

I don’t think she is that into the story.  She finds it really grim and heavy, especially right before bed, which is our only reliable reading time. We are still reading it, but I think we could just agree to abandon it.  Move on to Pride & Prejudice, or Gulliver’s Travels, or even The Tenant of Wildfell Hall.  I’m joking on the last one, kind of, but it didn’t seem darker.  Some of the same themes… 

I really don’t understand why Ambleside Online has this in the elementary booklist.  It seems to me to be completely inappropriate. But maybe I have sensitive kids. 

[Lori D.]

2 hours ago, Eilonwy said:

... I really don’t understand why Ambleside Online has this in the elementary booklist.  It seems to me to be completely inappropriate. But maybe I have sensitive kids. 

No, you are very astute and completely understand your children in the way that Ambleside does NOT.

Once again, I will say that while Ambleside has some good book ideas, they CONSISTENTLY list books that are VERY age-INappropriate -- MANY of their booklist titles are a good 2-4 grades above a typical child's interest level and maturity level. And, their choice of titles are all extremely old -- the most recently published books tend to be 60-70 years old. That also means the books are all coming from the same very narrow perspective/worldview -- which is so sad and limiting to miss out on the rich diversity of cultures and perspectives and "voices" of authors from around the world from the past 20-25 years.

There are a TON of super books that are more contemporary, written especially for the elementary and early middle school ages, that get missed when solely following the Ambleside booklists. And there is a limited "window of opportunity" for these wonderful and fun and funny and well-written books. In contrast, Dickens can be enjoyed at any time during the many decades of life as an adult.

NOT trying to trash Ambleside, or suggest you dump Ambleside entirely (because they do offer a unique educational set-up that can be a fit for some families, or parts of it can be a fit) -- BUT, you're getting CLEAR signals here from your children to put this book away and go for something that is much more age-appropriate and interesting. There is a real risk of killing a love of books and reading by continuing to trudge through book after book that is above a children's reading level, interest level, and maturity level.

Just my book rant for the day. 😉 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Lori D.

[Porridge]

3 hours ago, Eilonwy said:

… 

I really don’t understand why Ambleside Online has this in the elementary booklist.  It seems to me to be completely inappropriate. But maybe I have sensitive kids. 

Yeah we did it back when I was dabbling in AO. I will credit North’s Plutarch (AO’s recommendation) for getting DD comfortable enough with archaic language that Shakespeare was a pretty easy transition. But otherwise we found we would need to tweak the lists a lot. 

[Eilonwy]

18 hours ago, Lori D. said:

BUT, you're getting CLEAR signals here from your children to put this book away and go for something that is much more age-appropriate and interesting. There is a real risk of killing a love of books and reading by continuing to trudge through book after book that is above a children's reading level, interest level, and maturity level.

I think we’re going to switch to Pride & Prejudice and see if that is more enjoyable. We read and enjoyed Lorna Doone recently, even though it took months. It also had a fairly graphic murder of a toddler by the Doones, though, that I cut out for the most part.  Our current literature theme is English lit written between 1750 and about 1850, so these ones are old books although we do read lots of newer ones as well.  We’re not using AO as a curriculum; I’ve just looked at their booklists from time to time for ideas. I thought at this point that I had waited 4 grades already, but oh well! Thanks for the reinforcement that this really just wasn’t a winner right now. 
 

On 10/27/2021 at 11:30 AM, WTM said:

I edited the murder scene when I read it aloud to make it less disturbing. In retrospect I would have waited (my kid was younger) but I think she could handle it at 13 (with lots of discussion

I did read the murder scene and it made me feel sick- no way that’s suitable for right before bed for my 13 yo. Thanks for the heads-up on that!  She is fine with switching books. Maybe we’ll read a synopsis so she isn’t left wondering. 
 

14 hours ago, WTM said:

I will credit North’s Plutarch (AO’s recommendation) for getting DD comfortable enough with archaic language that Shakespeare was a pretty easy transition. But otherwise we found we would need to tweak the lists a lot. 

We haven’t tried Plutarch, though we’ve done a fair bit of Shakespeare.  However, it’s been Midsummer Night’s Dream and Twelfth Night, not Othello. She’s fine with the level of the language but the content hasn’t worked.  Maybe a different Dickens another time. 

[Lori D.]

4 hours ago, Eilonwy said:

... no way that’s suitable for right before bed for my 13 yo. Thanks for the heads-up on that!  She is fine with switching books. Maybe we’ll read a synopsis so she isn’t left wondering...  Maybe a different Dickens another time. 

Whew! Your child is older than I thought -- I was guessing about 10yo, since Oliver Twist is in the 5th grade AO booklist... 😉

For Dickens... If you haven't done A Christmas Carol (and then enjoy the Muppets Christmas Carol -- a number of lines straight out of the book) or Cricket on the Hearth, as those are not grim. And his fairy tale "The Magic Fishbone" is hilarious -- it is most UNlike his poverty-grim novels. 😉

Edited October 30, 2021 by Lori D.

[Eilonwy]

16 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Whew! Your child is older than I thought -- I was guessing about 10yo, since Oliver Twist is in the 5th grade AO booklist... 😉

For Dickens... If you haven't done A Christmas Carol (and then enjoy the Muppets Christmas Carol -- a number of lines straight out of the book)

She’s older enough that I thought we had already added the necessary offset time for the AO booklist.   I may try your Christmas Carol suggestion with her and also her 10 and 7 yo siblings, thanks!