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9 minutes ago, KSera said:

I don't know. V safe starts checking weekly after the initial week (or maybe it's after 10 days?). It says that side effect diminished each day after peaking on day 1, so I would expect there just werent' many people that still had anything to report on day 7 (my dh wanted to stop doing v-safe after 5 days, because he didn't see the point of them continuing to ask, and I told him he had to keep doing it as long as they ask!)

Also, the data I linked is the Pfizer one. I just realized that. You can click in the side bar to switch to Moderna or JJ.

After the first week of daily check ins the weekly check in asks if there have been any symptoms within the last week.  So even if you noted all side effects for days 1 to 7, didn't get asked on day 8, you can still report day 8's symptoms once you are asked. 

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9 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

This looks like trial data to me, not VSafe data, though? 

Let me go find their actual paper. 

Right. Sorry, I was talking about two different things in the same sentence. It was a little stream of conscious. I don’t know how they did it for the trial, but it does say in the trial data that symptoms peaked on day one and lessened each day, so I was just speculating that there likely wasn’t much left to report by day seven. Then I jumped to saying how v-safe does it.

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2 minutes ago, KSera said:

Right. Sorry, I was talking about two different things in the same sentence. It was a little stream of conscious. I don’t know how they did it for the trial, but it does say in the trial data that symptoms peaked on day one and lessened each day, so I was just speculating that there likely wasn’t much left to report by day seven. Then I jumped to saying how v-safe does it.

I'd be curious about the tail past 7 days, I guess. I've seen enough people report side-effects after 7 days on here that I'm sure it does happen. Tracking for 7 days doesn't seem quite sufficient for this one. 

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5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'd be curious about the tail past 7 days, I guess. I've seen enough people report side-effects after 7 days on here that I'm sure it does happen. Tracking for 7 days doesn't seem quite sufficient for this one. 

I expect they were still tracking them in some way, since they are still following them. It just wasn’t in this particular report. I agree that would be interesting to know.

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1 hour ago, SKL said:

How many people do you know under 55 who had Covid, and of those people, how many had a really bad case?  Was the average really worse than 2+ days of post-second-vax crud?

Even over 55, there are still many people who are completely asymptomatic.  I have a 60yo friend who found out she had antibodies.  They told her it was from a recent case.  She can't remember any time she felt even a little sick in the past 9 months.

I'm thinking about all the people I know who have had Covid.  Almost none of them felt particularly bad.  Maybe 4 people out of all of them, and they had multiple other health issues before getting Covid.  The ones I know who felt bad were achy for a couple days.  Which sounds exactly like the typical side effects from the vax.

I still decided to get my kids and myself vaxed, but not to protect us.  We want to be able to see old/at-risk folks without worrying, and we don't like the disruption of being quarantined.  We decided the pain was worth the gain for us.  But more info is needed before the same can be said for little kids IMO.

My kid’s 54 yr old adult friend died. No prior conditions. My piano student, age 9, was very sick for a week-sicker than her mother was. Healthy kid, no issues. A music teacher friend of mine in her 40’s was miserable for a week and still doesn’t fully have her taste and smell back, and she had it in December. Basically everyone I know who had it was pretty miserable for a week or two, and most said it was harder than the flu. Having said that, I don’t know anyone who was tested while asymptomatic who was positive. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SKL said:

How many people do you know under 55 who had Covid, and of those people, how many had a really bad case?  Was the average really worse than 2+ days of post-second-vax crud?

Even over 55, there are still many people who are completely asymptomatic.  I have a 60yo friend who found out she had antibodies.  They told her it was from a recent case.  She can't remember any time she felt even a little sick in the past 9 months.

I'm thinking about all the people I know who have had Covid.  Almost none of them felt particularly bad.  Maybe 4 people out of all of them, and they had multiple other health issues before getting Covid.  The ones I know who felt bad were achy for a couple days.  Which sounds exactly like the typical side effects from the vax.

I still decided to get my kids and myself vaxed, but not to protect us.  We want to be able to see old/at-risk folks without worrying, and we don't like the disruption of being quarantined.  We decided the pain was worth the gain for us.  But more info is needed before the same can be said for little kids IMO.

Most under 55s I know who had covid had much longer lasting symptoms than anyone I know who had vaccine side effects. I don't know anyone personally who felt bad for more than 2 days post vaccine. My brother had "a cold" that dragged on for weeks and turned out to be covid. My cousin had a mild initial illness but took a very long time to regain her sense of taste. Another friend had maybe a week or two of flu like symptoms. My friend's SIL and my SIL'S SIL both described illnesses so bad they couldn't walk across the room easily. Another friend, late 40s, had covid early on and long covid symptoms that have finally started to get better since she got vaccinated. My aunt's neighbor, healthy guy in his 40s, died. So, yes, on average way worse than 2 days of feeling bad post vaccine. And, as I've said, at least half the people I know who've gotten the vaccine haven't had any significant symptoms. I also don't know anyone who's died or been hospitalized because of the vaccine. I keep thinking of more--high school friend and his wife, in their 40s, both had nasty cases that lasted for at least a week. Honestly, I know a lot more people who've been surprised by how bad/weird covid was for them than who had super mild symptoms or asymptomatic cases. The only one I can think of offhand is my son's baseball coach, who was diagnosed a few days after the vaccine and initially dismissed his fatigue as a vaccine side effect, but it turned out to be covid.

Edited by kokotg
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My wife was high school friends with an under 55 man who was known locally as Patient Zero, as he was one of the very first Covid victims. Near death in the hospital for 64 days, 30 on a ventilator, became septic, developed pneumonia, kidneys failed, and he was given a 1% chance of survival.

Eventually he pulled through. But he lost fingers and toes to amputation as a result of having Covid. Stoked to be alive.

Bill

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43 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

My wife was high school friends with an under 55 man who was known locally as Patient Zero, as he was one of the very first Covid victims. Near death in the hospital for 64 days, 30 on a ventilator, became septic, developed pneumonia, kidneys failed, and he was given a 1% chance of survival.

Eventually he pulled through. But he lost fingers and toes to amputation as a result of having Covid. Stoked to be alive.

Bill

I went to high school with one of the first Covid patients in my area as well. Mid forties and healthy and he also ended up on a ventilator for weeks near death’s door. He made it fortunately. His case made me know right from the start that any of us could end up with that kind of case and I wanted no part of having that happen. 
 

 I know another guy in his thirties. Mountain climber with no health conditions who ended up super sick last year. I don’t believe he ended up hospitalized, but he was sick for weeks and took months to get back to semi normal. Last I knew, he still wasn’t able to do the kinds of physical activities he did before this. 
 

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Posted (edited)

To answer the question do I know anyone under 55 who had Covid worse than vaccine reaction...
 

This story is about a high school friend of mine. He was 49 or 50 when this happened.

I have two friends whose husbands spent a month to six weeks hospitalized with Covid. Both had moments where they said goodbye to their children because they weren’t expected to stay off a vent through the night. Both are under 55. Neither is expected to recover fully. One was a firefighter, and will never be able to work that job again. The other has yet to go back to work. I think he came out of the hospital in March. 

My brother-in-law, aged 49, was hospitalized with Covid in October. He was down for about two weeks, and has fully recovered. My sister, 48, was down for about a week with it. 

I also have a friend whose 10 year old has long Covid. She got it last March. She still runs a fever maybe once a week. She has lost cognitive skills. She has broken bones twice from falling from being dizzy. She cannot concentrate for long periods of time. She was one of the first people I knew who got tested fo Covid. 

A college friend, age 51, had Covid, had a stroke, and is slowly regaining use of his right side. 

I don’t know anyone who had more than one day of side effects from either vaccine. I know lots of people who have been vaccinated because I work in a school. 

Edited by Caroline
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50 minutes ago, Caroline said:

I don’t know anyone who had more than one day of side effects from either vaccine. I know lots of people who have been vaccinated because I work in a school. 

You know, you can think COVID is terrible and dangerous (I do!) and still know people with more than a day’s worth of side effects... at the very least, you know people on here that are like that. 

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The more people who choose not to get vaccinated, the more chances the virus has to mutate, creating variants. That's what I'm really worried about. Eventually, one of these variants may make even the best vaccines less effective, or even completely useless. So it's not really true that people choosing not to vaccinate has no effect on vaccinated people. 

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On 5/17/2021 at 8:34 AM, HeartString said:

I was curious so I went looking for some information.  I know that Arkansas lifted its mask mandate March 30.  I looked to see how that had affected cases in the state.  I can tell you most people that I know there are not masking unless they are required, and not even all of the time then.  The people I know are probably 50/50 on being vaccinated.  So it's a good test case for the new CDC guidelines.  As of today Arkansas has 39% of the state with at least 1 dose, 29% fully vaccinated, so less than the national level.  

It doesn't seem like lifting the mask mandate in March has made a bit of difference in their cases, even with the relatively low vaccination rate.  It's been holding steady at less than 200 cases a day.  I'm guessing there is enough immunity between vaccine and natural infections to keep it that low even without masking.  

*I'm not saying masking isn't important or helpful*  It just seems like the vaccines are doing the heavy lifting at this point and the sky hasn't fallen in this particular state with no mask mandate. 

I'm honestly surprised, I thought for sure cases would have exploded, especially because they opened restaurants back to 100% capacity at the same time and they were PACKED last time I was there.

image.png.5cff6c8082f772b01c60fade60169b4e.png

 

https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-states/state/arkansas

I think the lag time for effects to be seen is longer than we think. I just saw a chart today, shared by Dave Blake Jr showing that the states with lowest vaccination rates, of which Arkansas is one, have higher infection rates. It doesn’t seem high maybe, because cases are so much lower everywhere, but the potential for spread may be there, and we don’t know what will happen.

image.png.4ba74959ec1c4ce2dcfe3dbd5cef2581.png

The states bolder red are the ones with the lowest vaccination rates. The ones bolder blue have the highest vaccination rates. Chart is from Dave Blake Jr.

I’m in a neighboring state to Arkansas, not really near the border, and we had patients from there transferred up to our hospital, during the last surge, because their bed shortage was so acute. I hope the spread remains low there.

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2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

You know, you can think COVID is terrible and dangerous (I do!) and still know people with more than a day’s worth of side effects... at the very least, you know people on here that are like that. 

Other than you and your husband--whose experiences I don't discount and you have my sympathies--I have literally heard of no one in my circle who has experienced more than a sore arm and a day of feeling bad after the second shot of Pfizer or Moderna.

And shots, availability, and reactions have been a hot topic of conversation in recent months.

Sorry to know you two are exceptions.

Bill

 

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On 5/17/2021 at 1:51 PM, Not_a_Number said:

Right. There are many reasons for spread. All of them involve exchanging germs. 

Masks don't cause spread. Masks are a mitigation tool for spread. 

For decades HCWs in the OR have been wearing masks to protect the patient so it always seems so strange to hear people deny their protective effects. They are also worn in many other settings to protect both sides, and have been for a long time. I find the denial of the benefit of mask wearing hard to comprehend. I should add that it is not a complete protection of course, but it seems strange to deny any meaningful protection from them.

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36 minutes ago, TCB said:

For decades HCWs in the OR have been wearing masks to protect the patient so it always seems so strange to hear people deny their protective effects. They are also worn in many other settings to protect both sides, and have been for a long time. I find the denial of the benefit of mask wearing hard to comprehend. I should add that it is not a complete protection of course, but it seems strange to deny any meaningful protection from them.

Right. I’m also wondering how the people who deny any benefit from masks explain the almost non existent flu season this year. 

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This came out yesterday, about how hospitalized children were over counted.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2021/05/study-number-of-kids-hospitalized-for-covid-is-overcounted.html?__twitter_impression=true

 

The reported number of COVID-19 hospitalizations, one of the primary metrics for tracking the severity of the coronavirus pandemic, was grossly inflated for children in California hospitals, two research papers published Wednesday concluded. The papers, both published in the journal Hospital Pediatrics, found that pediatric hospitalizations for COVID-19 were overcounted by at least 40 percent, carrying potential implications for nationwide figures.

Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious-diseases specialist at the University of California, San Francisco, and Amy Beck, an associate professor of pediatrics, also at UCSF, wrote a commentary for Hospital Pediatrics that accompanied the two studies. They wrote, “Taken together, these studies underscore the importance of clearly distinguishing between children hospitalized with SARS-CoV-2 found on universal testing versus those hospitalized for COVID-19 disease.” The studies demonstrate, they said, that reported hospitalization rates “greatly overestimate the true burden of COVID-19 disease in children.” Gandhi told Intelligencer that while the studies were both conducted with data from California hospitals, “there is no reason to think these findings would be exclusive to California. This sort of retrospective chart review will likely reveal the same findings across the country.” 

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6 minutes ago, pinball said:

This came out yesterday, about how hospitalized children were over counted.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2021/05/study-number-of-kids-hospitalized-for-covid-is-overcounted.html?__twitter_impression=true

 

The reported number of COVID-19 hospitalizations, one of the primary metrics for tracking the severity of the coronavirus pandemic, was grossly inflated for children in California hospitals, two research papers published Wednesday concluded. The papers, both published in the journal Hospital Pediatrics, found that pediatric hospitalizations for COVID-19 were overcounted by at least 40 percent, carrying potential implications for nationwide figures.

Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious-diseases specialist at the University of California, San Francisco, and Amy Beck, an associate professor of pediatrics, also at UCSF, wrote a commentary for Hospital Pediatrics that accompanied the two studies. They wrote, “Taken together, these studies underscore the importance of clearly distinguishing between children hospitalized with SARS-CoV-2 found on universal testing versus those hospitalized for COVID-19 disease.” The studies demonstrate, they said, that reported hospitalization rates “greatly overestimate the true burden of COVID-19 disease in children.” Gandhi told Intelligencer that while the studies were both conducted with data from California hospitals, “there is no reason to think these findings would be exclusive to California. This sort of retrospective chart review will likely reveal the same findings across the country.” 

Anyone know if similar was done with child death counts?  Or counts of serious "symptoms" that could also be symptoms of something else?

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3 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

You know, you can think COVID is terrible and dangerous (I do!) and still know people with more than a day’s worth of side effects... at the very least, you know people on here that are like that. 

My kids German teacher who has taught them for years was down for a week with fever. He works for the county and I assume they don’t expect him to use his annual leave for that week. He is in his 40s. 
My part time community college lecturer is a retiree and was down for more than a week. Our assignments just ended up being graded late.  

53 minutes ago, TCB said:

They are also worn in many other settings to protect both sides, and have been for a long time. 

During flu season, it was easier to tell every hospital visitor to put on a mask than to remind them to cough into their arms. Asia has been wearing masks for decades for not only flu but hay fever season. Masks was an easy way to enjoy the spring flower without being too sick.

It is the thin one ply cloth masks that people I know have doubts with because a cough or a sneeze would get the mask wet. 

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-03-masks-galore-japanese-ward-pollen.html

“Masks are popular in Japan because they're a cheap, easy way to keep pollen from entering the nose and causing an allergic reaction, says Shigeharu Fujieda, an allergy specialist at Fukui University. "For that purpose, masks are very effective. It's cheap and safe. It seems to fit the thinking of many Japanese," he said.

While Fujieda said he wasn't particularly worried about the Chinese pollution, he did say it could exacerbate hay fever by continuing to irritate the nose even after pollen levels decline.”

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29 minutes ago, pinball said:

This came out yesterday, about how hospitalized children were over counted.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2021/05/study-number-of-kids-hospitalized-for-covid-is-overcounted.html?__twitter_impression=true

 

The reported number of COVID-19 hospitalizations, one of the primary metrics for tracking the severity of the coronavirus pandemic, was grossly inflated for children in California hospitals, two research papers published Wednesday concluded. The papers, both published in the journal Hospital Pediatrics, found that pediatric hospitalizations for COVID-19 were overcounted by at least 40 percent, carrying potential implications for nationwide figures.

Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious-diseases specialist at the University of California, San Francisco, and Amy Beck, an associate professor of pediatrics, also at UCSF, wrote a commentary for Hospital Pediatrics that accompanied the two studies. They wrote, “Taken together, these studies underscore the importance of clearly distinguishing between children hospitalized with SARS-CoV-2 found on universal testing versus those hospitalized for COVID-19 disease.” The studies demonstrate, they said, that reported hospitalization rates “greatly overestimate the true burden of COVID-19 disease in children.” Gandhi told Intelligencer that while the studies were both conducted with data from California hospitals, “there is no reason to think these findings would be exclusive to California. This sort of retrospective chart review will likely reveal the same findings across the country.” 

The article buried (and trivialized) the most import point of the story [emphasis added]:

To be certain, there are other effects of COVID-19 on children that are separate from hospitalization.

To be certain.

Bill

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, SKL said:

Anyone know if similar was done with child death counts?  Or counts of serious "symptoms" that could also be symptoms of something else?

I don’t know, but there is this published by CDC that suggests it should be looked into.
35% of pediatric deaths with Covid on the death certificate did not also have what they termed a “plausible chain-of-event” diagnosis (like pneumonia) or another condition that is associated with Covid death risk. This doesn’t mean that it is certain that Covid was not associated with those deaths. 
 

I am sure there must be a few cases in which the cause of death wasn’t Covid, and because pediatric numbers are small, a few could make a difference. Is it a third? That is hard to believe, too, unless states really are counting everyone with a positive Covid test within a certain time period as a Covid death. 

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1 minute ago, Penelope said:

I don’t know, but there is this published by CDC that suggests more looking into it is needed.
35% of pediatric deaths with Covid on the death certificate did not also have what they termed a “plausible chain-of-event” diagnosis or another condition that is associated with Covid death risk. This doesn’t mean that it is certain that Covid was not associated with those deaths. 
 

I am sure there must be a few cases in which the cause of death wasn’t Covid, and because pediatric numbers are small, a few could make a difference. Is it a third? That is hard to believe, too, unless states really are counting everyone with a positive Covid test within a certain time period as a Covid death. 

From what I've read in reliable sources, the official definition of a Covid death is a death "with Covid," or with presumed Covid.  I haven't heard any reliable information as to how many deaths "with Covid" are not "from Covid" in any age group.

Of course, in most age groups, death is rare from any cause, but if you're talking about a population with a non-miniscule death rate, such as children with potentially terminal cancer, then it might make a difference in the messaging.

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1 hour ago, Spy Car said:

Other than you and your husband--whose experiences I don't discount and you have my sympathies--I have literally heard of no one in my circle who has experienced more than a sore arm and a day of feeling bad after the second shot of Pfizer or Moderna.

And shots, availability, and reactions have been a hot topic of conversation in recent months.

Sorry to know you two are exceptions.

Bill

I’m surprised by that, honestly. Both my data on this site and IRL has indicated that there’s sizable minority of people with 3+ days of side effects. 

I think pro-vaccine people tend to play down effects while anti-vaccine people play them up, if I had to guess what’s happening. Good dada is hard to get.

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3 minutes ago, SKL said:

From what I've read in reliable sources, the official definition of a Covid death is a death "with Covid," or with presumed Covid.  I haven't heard any reliable information as to how many deaths "with Covid" are not "from Covid" in any age group.

Of course, in most age groups, death is rare from any cause, but if you're talking about a population with a non-miniscule death rate, such as children with potentially terminal cancer, then it might make a difference in the messaging.

Well, the study I linked, if I’m understanding it correctly, actually shows that nearly all of the adult Covid deaths DO have a record suggesting that the death could plausibly be from Covid. It’s the pediatric group (35%) and the 20 year olds (10%) that don’t find this. 
 

I am personally making no conclusions about adults or pediatrics from this or anything else. It’s going to take time, years, for everything to be carefully analyzed and for people who have full comprehension of all of the epidemiological literature to figure all of this out. 
 

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12 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I’m surprised by that, honestly. Both my data on this site and IRL has indicated that there’s sizable minority of people with 3+ days of side effects. 

I think pro-vaccine people tend to play down effects while anti-vaccine people play them up, if I had to guess what’s happening. Good dada is hard to get.

Or our experience is just different than yours.  We don't know why some people have certain reactions to Covid and some don't.  We don't know why some people have certain reactions to the Covid vaccine and some don't.  Would those who had the extra reactions to the vaccine be the same people who reacted badly to Covid?  We don't know. 

My husband had a delayed reaction to his vaccine (Moderna) and his reactions were stronger than others I know (but nowhere near having to be hospitalized or even needing to contact a doctor).  But he's also very high risk for complications from the actual disease. 

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44 minutes ago, KSera said:

Right. I’m also wondering how the people who deny any benefit from masks explain the almost non existent flu season this year. 

It's bazaar to know so many people with small children and not know anyone who has a a cold or the flu for an entire year. I'm feeling a bit spoiled by that luxury and I'll take this silver lining.

42 minutes ago, pinball said:

This came out yesterday, about how hospitalized children were over counted.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2021/05/study-number-of-kids-hospitalized-for-covid-is-overcounted.html?__twitter_impression=true

 

The reported number of COVID-19 hospitalizations, one of the primary metrics for tracking the severity of the coronavirus pandemic, was grossly inflated for children in California hospitals, two research papers published Wednesday concluded. The papers, both published in the journal Hospital Pediatrics, found that pediatric hospitalizations for COVID-19 were overcounted by at least 40 percent, carrying potential implications for nationwide figures.

Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious-diseases specialist at the University of California, San Francisco, and Amy Beck, an associate professor of pediatrics, also at UCSF, wrote a commentary for Hospital Pediatrics that accompanied the two studies. They wrote, “Taken together, these studies underscore the importance of clearly distinguishing between children hospitalized with SARS-CoV-2 found on universal testing versus those hospitalized for COVID-19 disease.” The studies demonstrate, they said, that reported hospitalization rates “greatly overestimate the true burden of COVID-19 disease in children.” Gandhi told Intelligencer that while the studies were both conducted with data from California hospitals, “there is no reason to think these findings would be exclusive to California. This sort of retrospective chart review will likely reveal the same findings across the country.” 

I can see how they'd have to keep all children WITH Covid in the covid wards no matter why they were admitted and they'd be included in the count of "Number of Patients Admitted to the Pediatric Covid Ward" This seems like a data reading problem that can be easily corrected by re-sorting the columns.  I suspect a lot of those kids were walking around with covid and didn't even know they were potential spreaders until the hospital did routine covid testing.

There is also the question of WHO was "reporting" these inflated numbers.  The doctors know the difference and it is clearly marked on their records.  Is it just that the media asked the wrong questions and ran with the first number they could dig up?  If the kids' charts were inaccurate there would be no way to dig through and find the real numbers, so accurate records must exist. The part of the article that bothered me is this: 

Scientific and media reports that inaccurately portray the risk of COVID-19 to children can do harm by alarming parents and providing justification for ongoing restrictions to in-person education and other programming

All I hear is that parents should worry and restrict less because their kids aren't in any real danger, but no consideration for the adult leaders of these classrooms and programs.  Maybe we can all finally relax more because of the vaccines, but this article is talking about case numbers from last year when we had no vaccine.  Also, data analysis takes TIME so it's always going to be better to take the numbers from the first journalist who raced to report them with a grain of salt.  It's also a good idea to err on the side of caution.  We also can't forget that we're likely facing a serious teaching crisis.  Everyone saw how quickly this nation turned on teachers.  It drove many to retire and likely deterred some young people from entering the field.  Add to that impending budget cuts that this recession will cause and it's not a great picture of the future.  

I was a bit long winded saying so, and I absolutely DO want accurate numbers all the time, but I don't want those numbers to be used in a way that increases our overall public health risk or creates an education crisis down the road because we're impatient now.

 

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23 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I’m surprised by that, honestly. Both my data on this site and IRL has indicated that there’s sizable minority of people with 3+ days of side effects. 

I think pro-vaccine people tend to play down effects while anti-vaccine people play them up, if I had to guess what’s happening. Good dada is hard to get.

No, that's not the case here. I have literally known of no one in my circle who has felt bad for more than a day. Almost always after the second shot. A few have only had sore arms, but they are the small minority. A crummy day after shot #2 is the dominant response, with a full return to normal by the next day. 

That's not some sort of confirmation bias, but the literal and objective truth of the situation as reported by people I know who have no reason to lie. And the topic has been widely discussed by those in my circle.

Bill

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11 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Or our experience is just different than yours.  We don't know why some people have certain reactions to Covid and some don't.  We don't know why some people have certain reactions to the Covid vaccine and some don't.  Would those who had the extra reactions to the vaccine be the same people who reacted badly to Covid?  We don't know. 

Yes, I assume some people's experience is just different from ours. But I'm also seeing a strong correlation between what people report and what they believe. 

I also assume it's partially age-based. I'm in my 30s and DH is in his 40s. From what I've heard, younger people have stronger reactions, so I'm not surprised that people in their 50s and 60s would know people with less serious reactions. 

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To the 55 and under question...

It seems to be 50/50 among those I know whether they were completely asymptomatic or extremely sick. I felt like I was on the verge of pneumonia for 6 full weeks. (I am 36) one other friend my age spent a week trying to decide whether to go to the hospital because she thought she was dying but doesn't have insurance, while our third friend's family got it and no one had anything worse than a cold. My 28 year old sister went out the day the bars opened🙄, got it there, and felt like she had an awful flu for almost a month. 

After a competition (that we KNEW was going to be a superspreader event), most of one of the levels of our team got it (athletes and parents along with several coaches). Half had no symptoms or cold-like symptoms and half were out for weeks. One coach's (10 year old) son got very ill for a long time. One of our coaches has had it twice and been pretty sick both times. We have a teenage staff member who got it and still can not smell or taste 8 months later.

With the vaccine (and a lot of people I know have gotten it) the most common issue was to be knocked out flat for a day, maybe two and then be fine. I don't know anyone who felt really bad for longer than that, or who had no issues. If you're talking in terms of which is worse to suffer through, I'd take the schedulable 2 days over the 50% chance of being laid up for weeks, for sure. 

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40 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yes, I assume some people's experience is just different from ours. But I'm also seeing a strong correlation between what people report and what they believe. 

I also assume it's partially age-based. I'm in my 30s and DH is in his 40s. From what I've heard, younger people have stronger reactions, so I'm not surprised that people in their 50s and 60s would know people with less serious reactions. 

My circle has a very wide age range. More people in the 50s-60s cohort than any other due to the age of my spouse and and I, but it also includes people in their 70's, 80s, and 90s and many teen-agers and young people in their 20s inside and outside my family. 30-40 is probably the least well-represented group.

Bill

Edited by Spy Car
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10 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yes, I assume some people's experience is just different from ours. But I'm also seeing a strong correlation between what people report and what they believe. 

I also assume it's partially age-based. I'm in my 30s and DH is in his 40s. From what I've heard, younger people have stronger reactions, so I'm not surprised that people in their 50s and 60s would know people with less serious reactions. 

But a lot of us in our 50s (and maybe 60s) have older teen and young adult kids, and those kids have friends. And so we know lots of younger people who have been vaccinated.

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13 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yes, I assume some people's experience is just different from ours. But I'm also seeing a strong correlation between what people report and what they believe. 

I also assume it's partially age-based. I'm in my 30s and DH is in his 40s. From what I've heard, younger people have stronger reactions, so I'm not surprised that people in their 50s and 60s would know people with less serious reactions. 

I'm in my 30s and so are the vast majority of my friends. It's not bias to report what has happened. It sounds like you and your husband are outliers. I work the front desk at my daughter's gym and speak to 100s of people a week. The vax was a hot topic for a while. And not one has reported more than 2 days of big side effects (sore arm and mild fatigue sometimes last a few days more.) 

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3 minutes ago, Sk8ermaiden said:

I'm in my 30s and so are the vast majority of my friends. It's not bias to report what has happened. It sounds like you and your husband are outliers. I work the front desk at my daughter's gym and speak to 100s of people a week. The vax was a hot topic for a while. And not one has reported more than 2 days of big side effects (sore arm and mild fatigue sometimes last a few days more.) 

I didn't have more than 2 days of big side effects, either. I just had more than 2 days of annoying side effects. 

In my current poll, there's a minority but a sizable minority of people with 2+ days of annoying side effects. There are very few people who report long-term side effects that get in their way, but plenty of people who report side-effects other than simply injection site soreness. 

It's a reactogenic vaccine. There's nothing wrong with that. 

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10 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

But a lot of us in our 50s (and maybe 60s) have older teen and young adult kids, and those kids have friends. And so we know lots of younger people who have been vaccinated.

And there's really no one you know who've had more than a day's side-effects? I don't mean, like, lying in bed for more than a day. I mean, side-effects you could notice for more than a day. 

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13 minutes ago, Sk8ermaiden said:

If you're talking in terms of which is worse to suffer through, I'd take the schedulable 2 days over the 50% chance of being laid up for weeks, for sure. 

Definitely, although the problem is that vaccine reactions go up for younger people while COVID reactions go down. There's almost certainly an age at which you're likely to be sicker from the vaccine than from COVID. 

Again, if there's a 5% that a kid is a long hauler from COVID despite an initially asymptomatic presentation, then the fact that a kid is likely to feel worse from the vaccine than from COVID doesn't matter to me at all. This is apples and oranges -- we're comparing medians to averages... 

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4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

And there's really no one you know who've had more than a day's side-effects? I don't mean, like, lying in bed for more than a day. I mean, side-effects you could notice for more than a day. 

Only one. I haven't spoken to her personally, but I've heard about her from family members (she's a family friend). As far as I can suss out she had fever/chills/aches that kept her on the couch for several days. She's in her mid-60's, I think. Definitely over 60.

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Just now, Pawz4me said:

Only one. I haven't spoken to her personally, but I've heard about her from family members (she's a family friend). As far as I can suss out she had fever/chills/aches that kept her on the couch for several days. She's in her mid-60's, I think. Definitely over 60.

Yeah, I'm not arguing people are going to be unable to manage for several days. Just that they may not be back to normal for several days. 

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12 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

And there's really no one you know who've had more than a day's side-effects? I don't mean, like, lying in bed for more than a day. I mean, side-effects you could notice for more than a day. 

Such as slight residual arm tenderness?

Bill

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1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, I'm not arguing people are going to be unable to manage for several days. Just that they may not be back to normal for several days. 

Shoot, I was an absolute pest with my young adults. DH, too. And myself. I wanted so very, very badly for all of us to have some noticeable side effects--something that got our attention, not a piddly sore arm--because it would have made me feel like we were getting a good immune response to the vaccine (yeah, I know that's not necessarily a good indicator, but still . . .). But none of us had anything like that.

Honestly, just based on the experience of the four of us, and what I've heard from most other people -- If people think the Pfizer vaccine is all that bad they probably don't want to get the Shingrex vaccine. My experience with that wasn't bad at all IMO, but it was considerably worse than my experience with either Pfizer vaccine. My reaction to the first Shingrex vaccine was considerably worse than my combined reaction to the Pfizer vaccines. I did know for several days that I'd had it.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Pawz4me said:

Shoot, I was an absolute pest with my young adults. DH, too. And myself. I wanted so very, very badly for all of us to have some noticeable side effects--something that got our attention, not a piddly sore arm--because it would have made me feel like we were getting a good immune response to the vaccine (yeah, I know that's not necessarily a good indicator, but still . . .). But none of us had anything like that.

Honestly, just based on the experience of the four of us, and what I've heard from most other people -- If people think the Pfizer vaccine is all that bad they probably don't want to get the Shingrex vaccine. My experience with that wasn't bad at all IMO, but it was considerably worse than my experience with either Pfizer vaccine. My reaction to the first Shingrex vaccine was considerably worse than my combined reaction to the Pfizer vaccines. I did know for several days that I'd had it.

Yeah, my in-laws also found Shingrex worse than Pfizer. My in-laws had about a day of symptoms from the mRNA vaccines (my MIL had Moderna), although my FIL's was odd and was GI-related and 3 days after the vaccine. 

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In my family/friends... Adults between 35-65 have had about just over 2 days of feeling crappy. The first day being laid out flat, the second day feeling better but not awesome, and the next half of the day just getting energy back. I have only heard a couple that felt completely fine for both doses and they seemed to all be above 60. I would say the majority felt fine on the first and horrid on the second. A few felt horrid on both.

The kids between 12-16 have been about 24 hrs of tired and achy and sore arms. Another day of just sore arm.

 

I know people who had COVID from ages 3yo-90. All of them survived, but several were hospitalized. Some had strokes. One died a year later of a secondary issue that started after COVID. Some who stayed home just felt like it was a cold, some were really really sick for a long long time. One family (all but one member of the family of five) got it a second time and were much worse that time.  2 were very very ill. 

 

To me, in general, the 2 days of feeling yucky from the vaccine has been better than all of the family and friends' COVID cases, except for a 3yo who had no symptoms. The vaccine is especially better than the 5 who were hospitalized for COVID, one who almost died in the hospital and had a stroke due to COVID, and the one who died a year later from a condition brought on by COVID. 

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Just now, bluemongoose said:

I know people who had COVID from ages 3yo-90. All of them survived, but several were hospitalized. Some had strokes. One died a year later of a secondary issue that started after COVID. Some who stayed home just felt like it was a cold, some were really really sick for a long long time. One family (all but one member of the family of five) got it a second time and were much worse that time.  2 were very very ill. 

Do you know lots of kids who've had COVID? 

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41 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yes, I assume some people's experience is just different from ours. But I'm also seeing a strong correlation between what people report and what they believe. 

What people are reporting matches what the trial data showed as well, though. Most people with systemic reactions have them for only a day, sometimes two. I have certainly noticed that people who fretted a lot about the shot ahead of time or were really conflicted about having it, do  seem to report side effects at a higher rate than average, but I can’t say I’ve noticed the reverse— plenty of people who were gung ho about getting vaccinated have reported when they have ended up with strong side effects. I’m actually historically vaccine cautious, so if I was seeing something concerning, I would be noting it.

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1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, my in-laws also found Shingrex worse than Pfizer. My in-laws had about a day of symptoms from the mRNA vaccines (my MIL had Moderna), although my FIL's was odd and was GI-related and 3 days after the vaccine. 

I did have some intestinal cramping three days after my second Pfizer. But I have IBS, so that's not unusual for me and I can't say for sure it was due to the vaccine. I did report it on the VSafe app.

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