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CDC removing mask mandate what will you do with dc under 12


hshibley
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1 minute ago, SKL said:

IME the anti's are not hiding their position, and I don't see them as likely to lie about it.

Mask or no mask, I don't think people should assume there are no germs in their midst.

Right, I don’t really think the anti-vaxxers who own it are a worry.

If they own it, and still follow the guidelines for the unvaccinated (which would mean masking in public, right now), what’s the big deal?  

But if they aren’t vaxxed and then follow guidelines made for the vaccinated people ... that would seem, from here, that they are at least implying to other people (strangers) that they are vaxxed just by being in the store or wherever unmasked.  

Possibly your area doesn’t have the same type of attitudes.  I can easily see people I know IRL who are anti-vax taking off their mask and pretending they are vaxxed when they feel like it. I don’t respect it, but it will happen. Kind of looks like lying by omission.

Regardless, yep, germs are everywhere.   

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3 minutes ago, happi duck said:

If a store or indoor event etc says masks are required then everyone masks and anti mask people mask up or are ejected.

Now if a store or indoor event etc says unvaccinated must mask then anti mask people will just skip it.  They never wanted to wear one and now they will get away with it.  Covid still spreads this way.

 

They were most likely not wearing mask already anyway. Costco is the only store I've seen absolutely refuse service to those without a mask.

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29 minutes ago, Spryte said:

We really need accessible vaccines for all who want them.  

This is already being done in a big way in California . The government has started a program similar to the "get the vote out" campaign by hiring people to man phone banks to canvas people to take the vaccines and knocking on doors with requests to vaccinate. In addition to social media campaigns, they have also opened vaccine kiosks in train stations, bus stations and mall parking lots. When I booked my own appointment online, there was an option to request for free transportation to the vaccine site if I needed it. I heard from someone I work with that Uber and Lyft are offering free rides to vaccination sites until the first week of June. Most county vaccine sites in my area are open until 9:00 pm at least twice a week in order to serve the poor who may not be able to take time off work to vaccinate.

I think that these programs to make it accessible to the poor and the old will become more widespread in the next month or two and we can expect other states to follow.

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24 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

There is nothing you can do about them.

 

Of course there is. Not in every setting; it was an always an issue that underpaid workers were supposed to enforce mandates in retail stores. But in my husband's school district, the mask mandate has been strictly enforced with little drama this year. Once they lift it for "vaccinated people" (but don't require proof of vaccination) any teacher or student over 15 can claim to be vaccinated and take their masks off. Even though they're in crowded indoor conditions with people who aren't yet eligible for vaccines.

And while there have always been unvaccinated anti-maskers who like to make a show of it, I think there have been more who've quietly gone along with it to avoid confrontation but who will happily ditch the mask now that they have cover for it. 

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1 minute ago, kokotg said:

Of course there is. Not in every setting; it was an always an issue that underpaid workers were supposed to enforce mandates in retail stores. But in my husband's school district, the mask mandate has been strictly enforced with little drama this year. Once they lift it for "vaccinated people" (but don't require proof of vaccination) any teacher or student over 15 can claim to be vaccinated and take their masks off. Even though they're in crowded indoor conditions with people who aren't yet eligible for vaccines.

And while there have always been unvaccinated anti-maskers who like to make a show of it, I think there have been more who've quietly gone along with it to avoid confrontation but who will happily ditch the mask now that they have cover for it. 

I'm talking about those exact situations as bolded. There is no way of knowing and nothing anyone can do about it.

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1 minute ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I'm talking about those exact situations as bolded. There is no way of knowing and nothing anyone can do about it.

And I'm saying that of course there's something you can do about it. You can continue to mandate masks in schools until everyone is eligible to be vaccinated. That's what most schools have done all year. My husband's been wearing a mask 8 hours a day all year, and he's happy to keep doing it until all of his students can be vaccinated (and since it's high school, they're all eligible now; I would be fine with lifting the mask mandate in high schools in another 6 weeks or whatever when they'll all be fully vaccinated if they want to be. But school will be over here by then).

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31 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

So e vaccinated are more than ready to shed the masks so that won't happen. 

At the beginning people here were happy with the CDC recommendations and said we should all follow CDC guidelines. Scoffing at those who  think they know better than the CDC.

Wrong. We don't trust the usual suspects not to lie and to NOT follow CDC guidelines. With very good cause.

The CDC is STILL calling for unvaccinated people to mask and we have learned those folks simply can not be trusted to do the right thing. That's the point.

Nice try anyway.

Bill

 

 

 

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My governor just announced ending the state mask mandate.  He is leaving the mandate on k-12 schools though because the students aren’t vaccinated. So there is some nuance in how the new recommendation will be implemented. 
 

I’ll be curious to see what big box stores do.  Walmart, Lowe’s and Dollar Tree are the only indoors places my kids go most of the time. I plan to continue to mask in those places. 
 

Edited by HeartString
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10 minutes ago, kokotg said:

And I'm saying that of course there's something you can do about it. You can continue to mandate masks in schools until everyone is eligible to be vaccinated. That's what most schools have done all year. My husband's been wearing a mask 8 hours a day all year, and he's happy to keep doing it until all of his students can be vaccinated (and since it's high school, they're all eligible now; I would be fine with lifting the mask mandate in high schools in another 6 weeks or whatever when they'll all be fully vaccinated if they want to be. But school will be over here by then).

I guess I thought we were talking about people out in public. Mask required signs disappeared around here a couple of weeks ago. If stores are not requiring proof, there is literally nothing anyone can do about unvaccinated people taking them off. Nothing. 

Laws? That has nothing to do with right now.

Edited by AbcdeDooDah
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Just now, AbcdeDooDah said:

I guess I thought we were talking about people out in public. Mask required signs disappeared around here a couple of weeks ago. If stores are not requiring proof, there is literally nothing anyone can do about unvaccinated people taking them off. Nothing. 

Laws? That had nothing to do with right now.

well, you quoted me talking about school mask mandates and teachers and students. Re: out in public--no, there's nothing you can do about it or at least nothing anyone WILL do about it...but I would be absolutely shocked if unvaccinated people continued to mask at the same rate now as before the announcement. The messaging matters, and I think this messaging is ill timed and potentially very damaging. I hope I'm wrong.

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2 minutes ago, kokotg said:

well, you quoted me talking about school mask mandates and teachers and students. Re: out in public--no, there's nothing you can do about it or at least nothing anyone WILL do about it...but I would be absolutely shocked if unvaccinated people continued to mask at the same rate now as before the announcement. The messaging matters, and I think this messaging is ill timed and potentially very damaging. I hope I'm wrong.

I must have missed the school part as I was focused on the part I bolded. Sorry about that.

I think everyone can agree that CDC messaging has been atrocious this while time.

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5 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I guess I thought we were talking about people out in public. Mask required signs disappeared around here a couple of weeks ago. If stores are not requiring proof, there is literally nothing anyone can do about unvaccinated people taking them off. Nothing. 

Laws? That has nothing to do with right now.

Which is why the CDC decision is half-baked. 

They are correct on the science of vaccinated people being at low risk for getting sick or getting others sick, but they have underestimated the opening they have given to reckless and irresponsible people who have no regard for human life.

That's a problem.

Bill

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19 minutes ago, HeartString said:

My governor just announced ending the state mask mandate.  He is leaving the mandate on k-12 schools though because the students aren’t vaccinated. So there is some nuance in how the new recommendation will be implemented. 
 

I’ll be curious to see what big box stores do.  Walmart, Lowe’s and Dollar Tree are the only indoors places my kids go most of the time. I plan to continue to mask in those places. 
 

Not really a big box store, but Trader Joe's has removed their mask mandate. https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/14/business/trader-joes-mask-guidance/index.html

Edited by whitestavern
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1 hour ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

So e vaccinated are more than ready to shed the masks so that won't happen. 

At the beginning people here were happy with the CDC recommendations and said we should all follow CDC guidelines. Scoffing at those who  think they know better than the CDC.

We are still saying that - the problem is we are worried people won't follow the CDC guidelines,and will take off their mask even if they are not vaccinated. 

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2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

We are still saying that - the problem is we are worried people won't follow the CDC guidelines,and will take off their mask even if they are not vaccinated. 

I know, and I understand. Unless proof is required, there is nothing anyone can do but worry. 

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1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Personally? My unvaccinated dd will only go into indoor spaces with masking requirements. I am making a list: Home Depot, Target, Kroger stores

Places she won’t be going: Trader Joe’s, Costco

She is frankly really angry right now. I don’t blame her. I am pretty irritated myself.

 

Is Costco lifting their requirement? 

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Just now, AbcdeDooDah said:

I know, and I understand. Unless proof is required, there is nothing anyone can do but worry. 

Even if proof is required, fake cards sell here for about $20.

Yesterday my dd had hopes of going places because in a month her older siblings will all be vaxxed. Our state still had pretty serious indoor masking mandates. That all got blown to hell.

She views it as selfish boomers out to benefit themselves and not think of others like her who can’t be vaccinated yet.

Look, at some point life will move on. We will make decisions for ourselves. Some can’t or won’t be vaccinated. Got it. But my medically fragile kid who has essentially been home for 14 months and who had hopes of going some places soon and was making shopping lists to do so was just told where she ranked in priorities with some stores. 

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1 hour ago, happi duck said:

Why can't the US do really hard things for the greater good?  Frustrating!

Or why can’t the US do even slightly inconvenient  things for the greater good? It’s not like masking is even a really hard thing. Can you imagine if WWII happened with the current US population? We’d be done for. There’s no will for doing hard things or for true patriotism or serving the greater good. Sad 😢

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2 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

That’s what my local paper is reporting. 

That's surprising to me. 

Edit. I looked it up. They ate following state guidelines, no proof required.

CA is supposedly lifting the mask mandate in June .

Edited by AbcdeDooDah
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33 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I think everyone can agree that CDC messaging has been atrocious this while time.

No. Don't agree. Their messaging is correct.

In this case they have failed to factor in the opening they just gave to those who will cheat and lie and willfully put others in harm's way.

Bill

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1 hour ago, happi duck said:

If a store or indoor event etc says masks are required then everyone masks and anti mask people mask up or are ejected.

Now if a store or indoor event etc says unvaccinated must mask then anti mask people will just skip it.  They never wanted to wear one and now they will get away with it.  Covid still spreads this way.

Regarding kids not getting as sick: what if keeping the spread going by making it near impossible to make unvaccinated people mask up creates a variant that does make kids sick?

Why can't the US do really hard things for the greater good?  Frustrating!

The masks didn't stop variants from happening.

Dragging this out for over a year gave the variants more opportunity to develop.

As the science shows that having had Covid provides lasting immunity, how much longer are we gonna insist that kids playing maskless in the summer is the problem?

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3 minutes ago, SKL said:

The masks didn't stop variants from happening.

Dragging this out for over a year gave the variants more opportunity to develop.

As the science shows that having had Covid provides lasting immunity, how much longer are we gonna insist that kids playing maskless in the summer is the problem?

Huh? Dragging what out? 

The more people who host the virus, the greater the opportunity for the virus to mutate. Basic science.

Mask wearing slowed the spread.  We've already lost 584,00,000 people in this country. Had we "let 'er rip, we'd be over 2 million.

What the heck are you suggesting???

Bill

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5 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

So e vaccinated are more than ready to shed the masks so that won't happen. 

At the beginning people here were happy with the CDC recommendations and said we should all follow CDC guidelines. Scoffing at those who  think they know better than the CDC.

The CDC has not said "it is safe, take off your masks" to everyone. They have said it is safe for fully vaccinated people to take off their masks. That means no one under age 16 qualifies yet, and 12-16 yr olds who's parents seek out vaccination and have no reason not to vaccinate will likely reach that stage by the end of summer. That is something to celebrate. It means that my 16 yr old's high school graduation can probably happen without masks for many of the students. It means that next fall, middle and high schools can probably not have mask mandates on campus, and the same for colleges. 

 

It does not mean that my summer drumming class, that has kids age 7-10 can be maskless yet. And if they have to wear one, the single most powerful thing I can do to encourage that as the adult in the room is to wear one, too. 

 

 

Edited by Dmmetler
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Whether the stores drop the requirement or not doesn't matter much imo.  Right now "masked" means having it repeatedly sliding below your nose, having big gaps at the side, pulling it down when further than 6ft from another person, vents that allow air out, thin gaiters that do nothing, etc.  I didn't feel that high risk or unvaccinated people were safe there before and I don't feel they will be safe there now.  I think the CDC is hoping private entities will implement vaccine passports so that it can be a health issue instead of apolitical issue and I'm all for that.  (Yeah, I know Florida is sol on this one, but at least they can be outside most of the year.)

Edited by Syllieann
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12 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

Whether the stores drop the requirement of not doesn't matter much imo.  Right now "masked" means having it repeatedly sliding below your nose, having big gaps at the side, pulling it down when further than 6ft from another person, vents that allow air out, thin waiters that do nothing, etc.  I didn't feel that high risk of unvaccinated people were safe there before and I don't feel they will be safe there now.  I think the CDC is hoping private entities will implement vaccine passports so that it can be a health issue instead of apolitical issue and I'm all for that.  (Yeah, I know Florida is sol on this one, but at least they can be outside most of the year.)

Improperly fitting masks, worthless gaiters, tests with high rate of false negatives people who didn't test because they couldn't afford to take time off of work, people who tested positive and still went out in public, people who had no access to tests, people who thought it was allergies, people who had no symptoms. We can't blame it all on antimaskers.

Edited by AbcdeDooDah
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In Australia, so different, but we have 2 cases in our state, and so we are legally required to mask. Why? Because they realise that with 2 symptomatic cases there are probably heaps of asymptomatic cases and they don't want it to spread further, esp into nursing homes. 

What I have noticed is that now when people are sick with colds they are using masks even when they don't legally need to. So good!! I really hope that continues. 

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I don’t know. I think this feelings about covid have become so politicized that I don’t see many vaccine hesitant people changing their minds anytime soon. 
 

I will probably mask indoors for the next long while because the vaccine will not provide full coverage to me because of my medications. I am just hoping I don’t get yelled at by the crazies any more than I already have been. I used to mask indoors pre-covid during flu season under medical advice and everything has become so politically charged that it feels more awkward now for me to mask than it did before in certain crowds.

 

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35 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Even if proof is required, fake cards sell here for about $20.

Yesterday my dd had hopes of going places because in a month her older siblings will all be vaxxed. Our state still had pretty serious indoor masking mandates. That all got blown to hell.

She views it as selfish boomers out to benefit themselves and not think of others like her who can’t be vaccinated yet.

Look, at some point life will move on. We will make decisions for ourselves. Some can’t or won’t be vaccinated. Got it. But my medically fragile kid who has essentially been home for 14 months and who had hopes of going some places soon and was making shopping lists to do so was just told where she ranked in priorities with some stores. 

How old is your dd?  Can you come up to my state where 12 and ups can be vaccinated?  I had heard that people were doing that. 

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16 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

And yet, here and elsewhere, people are saying they're not taking their masks off. Which is fine, idc. I do think it adds to vaccine hesitancy, though, and implies aavk of confidence in the vaccine.

I agree that it's going to give some vax hesitant people another argument.

I have never masked because of being "afraid," but out of consideration for others.  I don't actually believe my wearing a mask in most of the places I've gone has made one lick of difference in terms of disease spread.  If I think I might have Covid, I'm not hanging around people who are high risk, mask or no mask.

I think taking off the masks, which make little difference even in an unvaxed population, will give vax hesitant people more confidence in the vax.  Many of them already think constant masking is BS and that those voluntarily masking despite being vaxed are ridiculous.

I also think that masking while vaxed encourages a false sense of security for those who think masking is gonna keep them safe.

ETA:  I do believe in being careful not to make medically fragile people sick, just as I have always believed, and I will continue to take the same precautions as I always have, which don't involve masking.

Edited by SKL
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12 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

And yet, here and elsewhere, people are saying they're not taking their masks off. Which is fine, idc. I do think it adds to vaccine hesitancy, though, and implies lack of confidence in the vaccine.

LOL. No. It does NO such thing.

You are attempting to turn logic on its head. Why??

Bill

 

 

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4 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I don’t know. I think this feelings about covid have become so politicized that I don’t see many vaccine hesitant people changing their minds anytime soon. 
 

I will probably mask indoors for the next long while because the vaccine will not provide full coverage to me because of my medications. I am just hoping I don’t get yelled at by the crazies any more than I already have been. I used to mask indoors pre-covid during flu season under medical advice and everything has become so politically charged that it feels more awkward now for me to mask than it did before in certain crowds.

 

I masked for flu long before Covid. I masked for Covid before mandates. I will continue to mask. But I am in a fairly liberal and tolerant (when it comes to masking) area. 

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Just now, SKL said:

I agree that it's going to give some vax hesitant people another argument.

I have never masked because of being "afraid," but out of consideration for others.  I don't actually believe my wearing a mask in most of the places I've gone has made one lick of difference in terms of disease spread.  If I think I might have Covid, I'm not hanging around people who are high risk, mask or no mask.

I think taking off the masks, which make little difference even in an unvaxed population, will give vax hesitant people more confidence in the vax.  Many of them already think constant masking is BS and that those voluntarily masking despite being vaxed are ridiculous.

I also think that masking while vaxed encourages a false sense of security for those who think masking is gonna keep them safe.

False.

All this will do is give cover to anti-vaxers/anti-maskers to spread the illness.

Bill

 

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Going back a bit to the talk about how much underreporting there is or isn't in kids....I just noticed today on the Georgia department of health website that the positivity rate for kids right now is more than twice as high as for the general population (8 vs 3.6%). The most likely explanation for that (and maybe the only likely explanation) is that we're missing a higher percentage of cases in kids. I've always had my suspicions about how much higher the incidence rate for teachers is than for students anywhere I've seen that keeps track of both; this would seem to support my suspicions.

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2 minutes ago, kokotg said:

Going back a bit to the talk about how much underreporting there is or isn't in kids....I just noticed today on the Georgia department of health website that the positivity rate for kids right now is more than twice as high as for the general population (8 vs 3.6%). The most likely explanation for that (and maybe the only likely explanation) is that we're missing a higher percentage of cases in kids. I've always had my suspicions about how much higher the incidence rate for teachers is than for students anywhere I've seen that keeps track of both; this would seem to support my suspicions.

The only way we could accurately know what actual contraction rates are is if we tested everyone on the regular....which we don’t do, aside from major league sports.

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