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What are some curriculum trends you’ve noticed over the years?


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9 hours ago, GoodnightMoogle said:

This made me think of Gentle + Classical. I was looking at her preschool materials a long time ago and now I think she has a program for older kids too. Honestly, the beautiful art people make for these curricula reaaaally appeal to me. It’s those Beatrix Potter illustration vibes. They know how to get us. 

This is also something that has changed in homeschooling. I've seen older curricula, stuff that was created 15+ years ago, and it is not very pretty. At all. The content might be great, but it's full of clip art and just, yech. I'm ok with curriculum that looks boring, but it at least has to look kind of professional. I would prefer if it had some style. Which is silly, I know. But there you go.

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The talk about illustrations reminded me of Moving Beyond the Page.  I haven't seen that talked about in a while, but I remember when it first came out I looked at it and the illustrations looked like someone's kid doodled them.   And not just the illustrations to go with reading or something, the illustrations on worksheets as well.  Which seemed like it might make it hard to figure out the correct answer for some things.   I haven't looked at it in ages so I don't know if it got better with the drawings, but I think they also have an online version now.  

It was also really expensive for what it was, in my opinion.

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16 minutes ago, knitgrl said:

Years ago, someone on the forum here said that they couldn't bring themselves to buy a curriculum that was laid out in comic sans. Because it really did happen.

That was Mr.Q Science, right?

And before the realization that Comic Sans is dyslexic friendly.  I think that changed the perspective some.

Mr. Q was a hard program in our house.  Not because of the font or the content, but the need to print so much in color and how many pages it was in total,between the student and teacher text. I felt like we were always flipping through pages and there wasn't enough info on any of them.  I recently switched to a b&w laser printer and won't even look at picture heavy programs again.

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2 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

I recently switched to a b&w laser printer and won't even look at picture heavy programs again.

That's what we have. Something has to be really good for me to look at a lot of color....

That's interesting about the comic sans. I did not know it was dyslexic friendly.

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11 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

That was Mr.Q Science, right?

And before the realization that Comic Sans is dyslexic friendly.  I think that changed the perspective some.

Mr. Q was a hard program in our house.  Not because of the font or the content, but the need to print so much in color and how many pages it was in total,between the student and teacher text. I felt like we were always flipping through pages and there wasn't enough info on any of them.  I recently switched to a b&w laser printer and won't even look at picture heavy programs again.

I was using Mr. Q labs to supplement BFSU this year 😄 . His labs are MUCH better than BFSU, although I like BFSU. I just printed them in black and white, though... 

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4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I was using Mr. Q labs to supplement BFSU this year 😄 . His labs are MUCH better than BFSU, although I like BFSU. I just printed them in black and white, though... 

It got so fuzzy in b&w in the Advanced Chem units.  Oldest Ds and I ended up printing only what was necessary in the last half and using Ipads to read.  It wasn't an optimal solution (we both prefer texts in our hands) but it was okay.  He took that in...8th?  and then took AP chem in high school, where he ended up as the teacher's model student.  Like, the teacher would just use ds's papers to grade the rest of the class. 😄  Mr. Q is great, but I need him to hook up with Lulu or some other print-on-demand company.

Youngest ds is doing physics next year.  I would love for him to do Mr. Q, but I'm not going down that road with him.  He picked out a Glencoe text and I'll supplement with the videos and labs from Georgia Public Broadcasting.

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On 5/14/2021 at 6:08 AM, HomeAgain said:

I think it seems to go in waves.  Specific curriculum, yes, but there is always a growing philosophical trend behind it.

Literature based/family style was huge for a while.  Sonlight was the standard, FIAR up there, HoD to a lesser extent, and the more relaxed reading through the subjects.  That was in kind of a weird Sharks/Jets relationship with neo-classical, which was rising.  WTM methods, Memoria and Veritas,  My Father's World...

Neo-classical folks started splintering off, and the literature folks joined them to find Charlotte Mason ideas in a more CM centered program: Ambleside, The Alveary, and the spin off of those that incorporated elements of CM but were more comfortable to new folks- Torchlight, Gather Round, Build Your Library..I'm sure Biblioplan fits in there, too.

The big trend now is the nature-based: Blossom & Root, Wild Math, that sort of thing that people can shove to the side when it gets to be a month of -15 degrees and the idea of going outside to do school is not appealing.  It's balanced with the other extreme: Time4Learning, MobyMax, and whatever the new, $10/month online, will-teach-your-child-everything-in-15-minutes-a-day-and-make-it-fun program is out there.  I noticed a decent showing about Night Zookeeper last fall that seems to have petered out to non-existence, but I haven't paid attention to what has taken its place yet.

We've been around for awhile, and this kind of sums up the things I have seen.  The nature thing is big now, all wood toys, no plastic, oh and minimalism is so popular in regular life that I have seen it tryng to be expressed in homeschooling.  Which is so funny, because as a homeschooler, I am a natural hoarder, lol.  I need those milk jug lids for art or counting, right? 

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50 minutes ago, 2_girls_mommy said:

We've been around for awhile, and this kind of sums up the things I have seen.  The nature thing is big now, all wood toys, no plastic, oh and minimalism is so popular in regular life that I have seen it tryng to be expressed in homeschooling.  Which is so funny, because as a homeschooler, I am a natural hoarder, lol.  I need those milk jug lids for art or counting, right? 

That's funny. I'm fairly minimalist in general, but, you're right-totally a hoarder with homeschool stuff. I just went through our preschool stuff the other day (oldest is 9) and found all sorts of junk that I will never use for any of the kids. Seemed like a good idea to save it at the time, I guess...

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I do think a lot of things are really just the same ideas packaged differently though.  The CM nature study thing is a lot like all of the nature schools now.  The new stuff probably leaves out the religion.  I think a lot of the newer stuff is secular versions of older homeschool ideas.  Workboxes are an organizational tool.  Everybody needs organization.  I never had the space or the time to try that level of daily organization.  But I can see the helpfulness.  In the older days when I started homeschooling the Managers of Their Homes thing was big with the colored sticky notes calendars.  Again, I never used the exact system, but there have been years that I needed that level of organization to even attempt all that I needed to get done in a day. I saw some used copies of the books at a used sale the other day, and it brought me back to my early days of seeing it everywhere. 

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2 minutes ago, 2_girls_mommy said:

In the older days when I started homeschooling the Managers of Their Homes thing was big with the colored sticky notes calendars. 

Oh my gosh, that brings back memories. I totally had the big sticky noted calendar with all the micromanaged time slots for everything lol. Around that same time, I found Flylady. She taught me a lot about how to do household tasks that my mother never taught me and how to do anything in 15 minute increments lol. I rarely if ever see Flylady mentioned anymore. I still have a copy of "Sink Reflections" around here somewhere lol.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, knitgrl said:

Years ago, someone on the forum here said that they couldn't bring themselves to buy a curriculum that was laid out in comic sans. Because it really did happen.

NM--just saw this was mentioned upthread.
If anyone wants a color printed copy of the free life science book for Mr Q, let me know.  I feel horrible recycling it because it was so expensive to print!

Edited by cintinative
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15 minutes ago, sweet2ndchance said:

 I rarely if ever see Flylady mentioned anymore. I still have a copy of "Sink Reflections" around here somewhere lol.

I have a special place in my heart for Flylady! ❤️  The kids' clean up task list she had was fabulous, and really got my oldest in a good place with his things.  I still follow a lot of her advice and ideas from when I used to get the Daily Digest.  I think for a while they did away with that format, though, and I ended up unsubscribing (or being unsubscribed?) to their email listing.  But so much was put into place here: emptying the dishwasher first thing, shining the sink at night (okay, maybe it's just that it's emptied!), daily/weekly/monthly/quarterly chore breakdowns, tidying the bathrooms each day..

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6 hours ago, Meriwether said:

When I started reading online, workboxes were the big thing. All those shoeboxes.😄

Oh my goodness I totally tried the workbox thing.  So much work for me, so little used by the kids 🙂. We ended up with rolling drawers to help store their materials, but not as a way to organize work for each day. 

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13 hours ago, Wheres Toto said:

The talk about illustrations reminded me of Moving Beyond the Page.  I haven't seen that talked about in a while, but I remember when it first came out I looked at it and the illustrations looked like someone's kid doodled them.   And not just the illustrations to go with reading or something, the illustrations on worksheets as well.  Which seemed like it might make it hard to figure out the correct answer for some things.   I haven't looked at it in ages so I don't know if it got better with the drawings, but I think they also have an online version now.  

It was also really expensive for what it was, in my opinion.

I’ll be using a hand me down version of MBTP with my first grader next year. The MBTP illustrations look like standard fare, not exciting but not terrible.  DS is adhd so the blander stuff tends to work better for him. Poor guy didn’t know where to look in TGTB. 

We are using Miquon too. I guess I won’t be sitting at the cool kids table. 😂 

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There are definitely trends but many of the changes that we're seeing today are more about new markets than trends, IMHO. Homeschoolers are changing. 

It also seems like there are new markets opening up for homeschool curriculum providers too. Circe seems to cater more to private classical schools than homeschoolers today. I wouldn't be surprised if SWB sold more books to charters and private schools than homeschoolers these days. 

 

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On 5/20/2021 at 2:33 AM, seemesew said:

A trend I see now are a lot of parent made units studies with beautiful artwork! I bought a few but honestly haven't used them like I thought I would.

TGAB trend is hot right now and I'm all in it, lol! Its made my life easier and it will be one that sticks around.

I also joined the MB trend at first but their stuff is subpar in educational quality, imo.

I have a black and white printer so nothing ever looks as good once I print it.

I did look through the beautiful unused Charlotte Mason planner the other day which I bought a year or two ago.  It’s still beautiful.  Interestingly autocorrect tried to change beautiful to neurotic.  Which is probably what I’d be if I actually tried to use it!

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19 hours ago, knitgrl said:

This is also something that has changed in homeschooling. I've seen older curricula, stuff that was created 15+ years ago, and it is not very pretty. At all. The content might be great, but it's full of clip art and just, yech. I'm ok with curriculum that looks boring, but it at least has to look kind of professional. I would prefer if it had some style. Which is silly, I know. But there you go.

I have to admit I abstained from buying Well Trained Mind for an awfully long time because of the haircut on the front cover.

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On 5/18/2021 at 9:28 AM, stripe said:

I found a binder the other day of KISS stuff that I printed out and never used with my high school aged son! Ha

Ambleside is indeed very strict and very FIRM. They used to (and probably still do!) have a warning on the website that you have to do everything just as they say. I mean, do we have to sleep with the windows open in the winter and air out our pajamas just because that was in vogue during CM’s lifetime?

Nope they have even developed a modified light version and stuff for Covid homeschoolers last I checked 

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On 5/15/2021 at 8:30 AM, HomeAgain said:

BFSU and MCT both require a certain amount of flexibility and confidence of the teacher.  It's not that people give up on them, it's that they are hard to get into. 

I didn't realize people found MCT hard to get into. We jumped right in and ran with it, without really knowing what I was doing! 🙂 

The only thing I really hate about MCT is that he put all the assignments at the end of the teachers manual. So you read chapter 1 together, and then flip to the back of the book and do the assignment, then flip back to chapter 2, etc. Super annoying. 

I couldn't get into BFSU. I wanted to like it, but I felt like I would have had to read the book multiple times to get a handle on his vision before I could try to teach from it. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Nope they have even developed a modified light version and stuff for Covid homeschoolers last I checked 

I am basing this off of things said in Ambleside discussion groups, where Victorian style illustrations and wool clothing were definitely promoted as the thing to do, as well as her child rearing methods detailed in her books (which are aimed at nannies, not parents) but, from their FAQs:

However, following AmblesideOnline's schedule without also learning about Charlotte Mason's approach will not give your children the full benefits of a CM education, and we cannot emphasize strongly enough the importance of reading her series and learning all you can as you school.

 

As an example, here is a page about Charlotte Mason and wool at http://charlottemasonpoetry.org/smart-about-your-wool/ :

And one of the most overlooked or perhaps unrecognized aspects of environment is clothing.

Clothing to me is as critical to shaping the environment for our children as having glasses is for the nearsighted boy. Charlotte Mason begins sharing her thoughts on clothing in volume 1, Home Education, Part I, when she states, “But possibly it is not so well understood that children should be clothed in porous garments which admit of the instant passing off of the exhalations of the skin.” This painted a picture for me because I had never thought of clothing as a passage for allowing the skin to breath. As I read this, I became curious to know what she recommended for “porous garments.” In this section of her work she mentions wool a total of 14 times as the best material for children in all types of weather.

Also, an article by a doctor about CM:

The specific subtopics I plan to cover in this article related to the skin are:

1. Sunshine

2. Scarring

3. Perspiration

4. Skin rubbing, and

5. Wool

 

(I recommend actually reading this article, as it brings forth CM’s teachings and some medical analysis on whether they make any sense.)

http://charlottemasonpoetry.org/a-physicians-look-at-charlotte-masons-views/

Edited by stripe
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7 minutes ago, stripe said:

I am basing this off of things said in Ambleside discussion groups, where Victorian style illustrations and wool clothing were definitely promoted as the thing to do, as well as her child rearing methods detailed in her books (which are aimed at nannies, not parents) but, from their FAQs:

However, following AmblesideOnline's schedule without also learning about Charlotte Mason's approach will not give your children the full benefits of a CM education, and we cannot emphasize strongly enough the importance of reading her series and learning all you can as you school.

 

As an example, here is a page about Charlotte Mason and wool at http://charlottemasonpoetry.org/smart-about-your-wool/ :

And one of the most overlooked or perhaps unrecognized aspects of environment is clothing.

Clothing to me is as critical to shaping the environment for our children as having glasses is for the nearsighted boy. Charlotte Mason begins sharing her thoughts on clothing in volume 1, Home Education, Part I, when she states, “But possibly it is not so well understood that children should be clothed in porous garments which admit of the instant passing off of the exhalations of the skin.” This painted a picture for me because I had never thought of clothing as a passage for allowing the skin to breath. As I read this, I became curious to know what she recommended for “porous garments.” In this section of her work she mentions wool a total of 14 times as the best material for children in all types of weather.

Also, an article by a doctor about CM:

The specific subtopics I plan to cover in this article related to the skin are:

1. Sunshine

2. Scarring

3. Perspiration

4. Skin rubbing, and

5. Wool

 

(I recommend actually reading this article, as it brings forth CM’s teachings and some medical analysis on whether they make any sense.)

http://charlottemasonpoetry.org/a-physicians-look-at-charlotte-masons-views/

Oh yeah that’s true.  I do think having some kind of idea of what you’re going for is important though otherwise it’s basically a book list of Very Difficult Books.  I don’t think they kick you out for having synthetic clothes but I might be wrong 😂

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15 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said: 

It also seems like there are new markets opening up for homeschool curriculum providers too. Circe seems to cater more to private classical schools than homeschoolers today. 

 

I might be off base here, but as I’ve gone diving down threads here, listening to a bit of CIRCE and watching the way they’ve changed over the years, reading comments made by Cindy Rollins and others, I’ve started to pick up on this...uncomfortable vibe in the classical Christian homeschool world.

It’s tricky to explain. It’s as if companies that once praised homeschoolers when they marketed primarily to them have turned on them now that they have a new market in the private school world. Now homeschooling is “okay” but private schools should be the “ideal” that we strive for. The worst I’ve seen...that it’s fine for mothers to teach their young children but they just aren’t good enough to teach the older ones. That they are not rigorous or...dare I say, “masculine,” enough, to teach especially to their older sons.

Again, it’s just comments made here and there. But it’s definitely a vibe I’ve gotten. Lots of men hosting conferences and selling their curricula to primarily mothers, and now turning around and criticizing those same women as unintelligent or not “good-enough.”  

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48 minutes ago, GoodnightMoogle said:

I might be off base here, but as I’ve gone diving down threads here, listening to a bit of CIRCE and watching the way they’ve changed over the years, reading comments made by Cindy Rollins and others, I’ve started to pick up on this...uncomfortable vibe in the classical Christian homeschool world.

It’s tricky to explain. It’s as if companies that once praised homeschoolers when they marketed primarily to them have turned on them now that they have a new market in the private school world. Now homeschooling is “okay” but private schools should be the “ideal” that we strive for. The worst I’ve seen...that it’s fine for mothers to teach their young children but they just aren’t good enough to teach the older ones. That they are not rigorous or...dare I say, “masculine,” enough, to teach especially to their older sons.

Again, it’s just comments made here and there. But it’s definitely a vibe I’ve gotten. Lots of men hosting conferences and selling their curricula to primarily mothers, and now turning around and criticizing those same women as unintelligent or not “good-enough.”  

I've griped here before about Circe. I remember the big thread from the early 2010s. I wasn't here yet but it was still in vogue when I joined and I read through the thread. What I remember from that thread is that Andrew Kern started giving out advice and then disappeared when the HSing mothers here followed up with more questions. 

I think he didn't know the answers so he disappeared. I followed him for a few years on FB and decided that he's not as smart as people gave him credit for being. He posted a few times (sorry - going off memory here) which were wrong. It was that kind of simplistic..."wasn't everything great before Dewey?" <eyeroll> 

There is a tendency in traditional worlds (education, religion, etc) to take many different cultures of the past and mash them all together. It's often done in a very self serving way such that their pet issue is now "traditional." 

Then I read about the blow up with Cindy Rollins and it all came together for me. You don't get to claim that you are promoting "beauty and truth" and then treat people like that. 

I used to follow Circe on FB but stopped because some of their articles were very offensive, IMHO. They were very anti-parent and pro-school. 

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4 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Then I read about the blow up with Cindy Rollins and it all came together for me. You don't get to claim that you are promoting "beauty and truth" and then treat people like that. 

 

What happened?

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16 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

What happened?

Cindy Rollins and Angelina Stafford had hinted for a few years about issues related to their falling out with Circe but they made it public on their group Facebook page about a year ago. I can't remember all of the specifics but IIRC they did not properly reimburse them for their services. Rollins and Stafford tried to resolve the matter privately for several years and then went public. 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/20/2021 at 1:26 PM, cintinative said:

NM--just saw this was mentioned upthread.
If anyone wants a color printed copy of the free life science book for Mr Q, let me know.  I feel horrible recycling it because it was so expensive to print!

Oh, I might depending on how much you want for it! I will pm you!

Edited by MissLemon
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On 5/15/2021 at 10:31 AM, Ellie said:

Because folks who are putting on the conventions are using exhibitors as workshop presenters instead of actual homeschooling parents, who are knowledgeable and determined and experienced and really smart.

This is one thing I really liked about BASIC, even though they ultimately went off the rails—they focussed on actual homeschooling parents teaching about actual homeschooling experience, and helping each other.  It’s one of the things I pictured about homeschooling that was largely unrealized, oddly enough.  Glad I finally ran across BASIC albeit late in my homeschooling career.

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On 5/19/2021 at 8:57 PM, sweet2ndchance said:

They just changed name and form a little bit. Now they are "interactive notebooks" lol! But even those are starting to fall out of style too. Guess everyone has caught on how much work they are to create. 😛 

What I caught onto, IMMEDIATELY, is how much work they are FOR WHOM.  Dropped them flat when they were just work for me.  Once they were a creative outlet for kidlet, it was another story—because she liked them.  But I was pressed for time and could not indulge in these at that point.  Nor Classical Writing, which was actually one of my biggest regrets about having to work FT and homeschool—I thought CW was the best writing approach ever, but could not put the time in to make it work with a 55 hour per week work schedule.

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39 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

This whole thread looks to me like someone doing ‘research’ for an article.  Just saying.

Nope. Just genuinely love talking about homeschool philosophies and curricula. 
There are some people out there who do love learning for the sake of learning 😉

Now you’ve got me thinking about what I would name this article though. TOP 10 FORGOTTEN HOMESCHOOL CURRICULA!

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On 5/22/2021 at 2:36 AM, GoodnightMoogle said:

I might be off base here, but as I’ve gone diving down threads here, listening to a bit of CIRCE and watching the way they’ve changed over the years, reading comments made by Cindy Rollins and others, I’ve started to pick up on this...uncomfortable vibe in the classical Christian homeschool world.

It’s tricky to explain. It’s as if companies that once praised homeschoolers when they marketed primarily to them have turned on them now that they have a new market in the private school world. Now homeschooling is “okay” but private schools should be the “ideal” that we strive for. The worst I’ve seen...that it’s fine for mothers to teach their young children but they just aren’t good enough to teach the older ones. That they are not rigorous or...dare I say, “masculine,” enough, to teach especially to their older sons.

Again, it’s just comments made here and there. But it’s definitely a vibe I’ve gotten. Lots of men hosting conferences and selling their curricula to primarily mothers, and now turning around and criticizing those same women as unintelligent or not “good-enough.”  

Yep I’m not really a fan of many of them.  There’s a really off vibe about a lot of stuff they write and say.

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On 5/22/2021 at 3:54 AM, Ordinary Shoes said:

Cindy Rollins and Angelina Stafford had hinted for a few years about issues related to their falling out with Circe but they made it public on their group Facebook page about a year ago. I can't remember all of the specifics but IIRC they did not properly reimburse them for their services. Rollins and Stafford tried to resolve the matter privately for several years and then went public. 

I also got the feeling that there was some disagreement over classical conversations but I may have been reading that into it.  

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4 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

This whole thread looks to me like someone doing ‘research’ for an article.  Just saying.

I did wonder that as well but I don’t really mind.  I’m happy if good information about homeschool curriculum gets shared to a wider audience.

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On 5/19/2021 at 8:57 PM, sweet2ndchance said:

They just changed name and form a little bit. Now they are "interactive notebooks" lol! But even those are starting to fall out of style too. Guess everyone has caught on how much work they are to create. 😛 

I noticed that back when "lapbooking" was all the rage in homeschooling, on TPT they were making similar things but designed to be used in a composition book and they were calling it "notebooking"...so I think the "interactive notebooks" idea came from classroom teachers.   I don't know if they were getting it from us, we got it from them,  or if a similar idea just sort of developed both in homeschooling and traditional schooling at the same time but in slightly different ways. 

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Sonlight was also really population for a while, but then something happened to the leadership and a lot of people didn't like their new political/religious slant.  Not sure on all that, but I do remember a bunch of people hopping ship.

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Is the Rainbow Resources catalogue still published?!?!?  They used to mail out this wonderful, massive 1000 page catalogue that had just 1000s of pretty detailed reviews of homeschool curriculum. It was very fun to read.

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13 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Is the Rainbow Resources catalogue still published?!?!?  They used to mail out this wonderful, massive 1000 page catalogue that had just 1000s of pretty detailed reviews of homeschool curriculum. It was very fun to read.

I can’t speak to what it looked like in the past but yes they still have this! It really is fun to read and I learned about some curricula I had never heard of anywhere else. For some reason I especially enjoy looking at all the handwriting programs. 

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I tried AO (modified)  for a year or two. It was indeed a rich feast but I actually felt burned out afterwards. Granted, I was also working more at the time. I know I could not maintain that pace again unless I had a housekeeper or a nanny, which was likely what many of CM’s original families had.

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1 hour ago, lewelma said:

And what about the old magazine 'growing without schooling'? Anyone remember that one?

John Holt's awesome newsletter. I used to subscribe. The first, oh, 34 issues were my reading material in the two weeks during which I was deciding whether to take my dd out of first grade and homeschool or not. In fact, I bought a whole bunch of them from someone many years ago. I thought maybe I'd have the opportunity to share them with someone, but I haven't. 

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2 hours ago, lewelma said:

Sonlight was also really population for a while, but then something happened to the leadership and a lot of people didn't like their new political/religious slant.  Not sure on all that, but I do remember a bunch of people hopping ship.

Their new, religiously neutral company is popular now, BookShark. 

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26 minutes ago, Ellie said:

I bought a whole bunch of them from someone many years ago. I thought maybe I'd have the opportunity to share them with someone, but I haven't. 

Keep them until you find that person who will want them. They were very special. 

So many years ago I was a true unschooler, and maybe I never left it. Over time my older boy redefined what unschooling meant to me as he embraced textbook based mathematical learning. Who was I to stand in the way! 

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55 minutes ago, WTM said:

I tried AO (modified)  for a year or two. It was indeed a rich feast but I actually felt burned out afterwards. Granted, I was also working more at the time. I know I could not maintain that pace again unless I had a housekeeper or a nanny, which was likely what many of CM’s original families had.

My older boy read through every classic fiction I could find. But I came to believe, mostly based on Bill's opinion, that a diet of only classic literature would leave a child with a distorted attitude towards women and Jews and 'natives'. They were very negatively portrayed in the literature of the era. So I embarked on a serious discussion for every book that my older son read, but I worried that my 1 or 2 hours of deep discussion would be overlaid with 15 hours that it took to read the book. I worried. But I will say, that my discussion won out with both my boys. 

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What about the first edition of WTM?  Many people for a long time preferred the first version to all future versions. I still have mine some 20 years later, even after reading and giving away the 2nd and 3rd editions. 

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How about the Teenage Liberation Handbook?  That was a powerful piece of writing by the teens themselves that convinced me to not just homeschool, but to unschool. It was well received in the circles that I ran with all those years ago.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Teenage-Liberation-Handbook-School-Education/dp/1862041040/ref=pd_lpo_14_t_0/130-0647953-6570637?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1862041040&pd_rd_r=56c93457-ea89-418e-996e-d7c8c8e77494&pd_rd_w=fxbzb&pd_rd_wg=F3h3l&pf_rd_p=a0d6e967-6561-454c-84f8-2ce2c92b79a6&pf_rd_r=9RJ07AW0ZFFV7PBDP6GD&psc=1&refRID=9RJ07AW0ZFFV7PBDP6GD

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