Help me think through this: ethics of participating in large events when you are vaccinated

[MercyA]

There is a yearly event coming up in my circles; I don't want to give specifics, but I usually participate in a significant way. The prep for this event lasts most of one day and the event itself lasts a half a day. There will be perhaps a dozen people over the course of the day for prep and maybe 150 or so, staggered, at the event itself. It's indoors in a large space. People wouldn't need to be packed together but I am confident saying almost no one will practice social distancing. Many (most?) in my circles are anti-mask and anti-vaccination. Most at the event will not be masked. The CDC data says that transmission is "high" in my county right now.

I am fully vaccinated. I *could* help safely and my help would be appreciated. I feel guilty *not* helping.

On the other hand, if I do help, wouldn't I be supporting / encouraging / condoning an unsafe event with the potential to seriously harm others?

Please share your thoughts. Thank you!

[Catwoman]

I wouldn't do it.

I'm sorry. That's probably not the answer you were hoping to hear. 😞 

[ktgrok]

I would not. Not if transmission is high and people won't mask. Your vaccine is about 95% effective, but that 5% gets more important when you think of that much exposure. 

If any of those factors were different - if it was outdoors, or you lived in a low transmission area, or people were masking, I'd feel differently and say do it. 

[bolt.]

17 minutes ago, MercyA said:

On the other hand, if I do help, wouldn't I be supporting / encouraging / condoning an unsafe event with the potential to seriously harm others?

I think that you are completely right about this perspective.

Would you "help" prepare a meal for a group gathering where there was a good chance that many people would get food poisoning from supplies you knew to be unrefrigerated? Would that be an act of service?

I wouldn't support, encourage, or condone an event of this kind under the conditions you described.

(It would also damage your credibility: "She cares so much about covid, but she really worked to make this event possible. How seriously does she really take it then?")

[Junie]

I have been thinking through this for our own family.

As far as the ethics of this, they are going to hold the event whether you help or not.  So really, I think it would be fine.  If *you* were hosting the event, the ethical thing would be to cancel, but in this case you participating as a vaccinated person will likely not affect anyone else.

 

[Loowit]

I would not help.  I would not want to appear to be condoning an activity where they were doing things that are not safe.

[Spy Car]

No way I'd participate. It would violate my ethical values in the most extreme measure imaginable.

Very hard no.

Bill

[Carol in Cal.]

I would do it wearing a mask if it meant as much to me as it sounds like it does to you.

I would not take any heat for wearing it.  

I would expect a prior commitment from management that no deriding of mask wearers or those who choose to stay away would be permitted or encouraged, and I would hold them to that, in a pleasant but firm way.

 

[KungFuPanda]

I could not, in good conscience, help run an event where people are gathered indoors without masks until this pandemic is over. I get WANTING to . . . I’ve delayed a 20th Anniversary show for two years now, but it’s not time yet. Even though we’re sick to death of it, we’re still IN it. 

[MercyA]

Thank you all so much. I appreciate all your perspectives. ❤️

I've already told the other people involved that I won't be able to participate. They're not expecting me to participate. But I know they are short on help and that I could still step in. 

I had my mind absolutely made up until the new CDC guidance for vaccinated people came out today, and then I started feeling unreasonably guilty about not helping. I know I shouldn't; DH says I need to let that go. It's not an essential event, in any case.

I'm not going to help this year, and I'm not going to worry about it anymore.  

I do think there are going to be more and more of these decisions ahead. If only people (for whom it's not contradicted) would just get vaccinated!! 

[ktgrok]

Just now, MercyA said:

Thank you all so much. I appreciate all your perspectives. ❤️

I've already told the other people involved that I won't be able to participate. They're not expecting me to participate. But I know they are short on help and that I could still step in. 

I had my mind absolutely made up until the new CDC guidance for vaccinated people came out today, and then I started feeling unreasonably guilty about not helping. I know I shouldn't; DH says I need to let that go. It's not an essential event, in any case.

I'm not going to help this year, and I'm not going to worry about it anymore.  

I do think there are going to be more and more of these decisions ahead. If only people (for whom it's not contradicted) would just get vaccinated!! 

If it helps, the CDC did say that you should still mask in crowded, indoor areas such as hospitals, public transport, etc. I'd say your event would fall into that category, especially given your high rate of cases. 

[purpleowl]

I would not have an ethical problem with it. At this point, in my area of the world at least, any adult who wants to get vaccinated has had the opportunity to do so. The people I know who haven't been vaccinated don't plan to get vaccinated, or they plan to wait a while longer. I am not going to change their minds about that. My presence or absence at the event will not change their attitude toward the event or toward the vaccine. If I wanted to do it and felt safe (I understand that vaccinated people have differing levels of comfort with such things), I would do it.

Exception to the above is if it's an event that kids generally attend, since that age group has not yet had a chance to become vaccinated. I wouldn't participate in that because my own kids wouldn't be going.

[Longtime Lurker]

43 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I do think there are going to be more and more of these decisions ahead. If only people (for whom it's not contradicted) would just get vaccinated!! 

This. It was easier when we were all locked down and the rules were more clear...

[LucyStoner]

On the one hand, it’s not my job to protect adults from their choices/decisions.  On the other hand, no one is obligated to volunteer their time and energy in situations that they don’t feel comfortable.  I think it’s fine to say no, thanks; see you next year.  

[Xahm]

If the event accomplished something I felt extremely strongly about and it was clearly the best or only way to accomplish that goal, I would mask up, bring spare masks to offer, and do it. Otherwise, no.

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, MercyA said:

 

I had my mind absolutely made up until the new CDC guidance for vaccinated people came out today, and then I started feeling unreasonably guilty about not helping. I know I shouldn't; DH says I need to let that go. It's not an essential event, in any case.

My country of origin is facing a rise in unlinked cases due to the B.1.617 variant.  I would not help in your scenario and I would continue masking. 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2277153-indian-coronavirus-variant-in-the-uk-seems-to-be-more-transmissible/ 10 May 2021

“Ravi Gupta at the University of Cambridge said at the briefing today that research suggests that B.1.617.1 does have a greater ability to bypass defences triggered by vaccination or an earlier coronavirus infection. He said there are signs it is better at spreading among vaccinated people, even though vaccination still appears to protect against severe disease. “In terms of controlling transmission, there may be a degree of compromise,” he said.”

[Frances]

1 hour ago, purpleowl said:

I would not have an ethical problem with it. At this point, in my area of the world at least, any adult who wants to get vaccinated has had the opportunity to do so. The people I know who haven't been vaccinated don't plan to get vaccinated, or they plan to wait a while longer. I am not going to change their minds about that. My presence or absence at the event will not change their attitude toward the event or toward the vaccine. If I wanted to do it and felt safe (I understand that vaccinated people have differing levels of comfort with such things), I would do it.

Exception to the above is if it's an event that kids generally attend, since that age group has not yet had a chance to become vaccinated. I wouldn't participate in that because my own kids wouldn't be going.

This is where I’m starting to land. If people have the opportunity and choose not to get vaccinated (I’m not including those who can’t for health reasons), I’m not responsible for them anymore. I’m in a pretty blue state and our governor just lifted most mask mandates, although individual places can still choose to have them. If I felt comfortable being there myself (which I’m not 100%) sure I would be) I don’t see it as unethical anymore. We have highly effective vaccines available to anyone who wants them (at least in my state). If people choose not to protect themselves with a vaccine and socialize as normal, then that’s on them.

[Faith-manor]

I personally would not do it. But, I have pandemic weariness for dealing with the rabid anti-vax, anti-science crowd so my patience is gone. You have to judge for yourself. I don't think it is unethical to participate, however I think it is entirely legitimate to.choose to use your volunteer hours elsewhere and in an environment that is encouraging responsible choices within the community.

[teachermom2834]

If I wanted to go I would. The non maskers/non vaxxers have been doing whatever they want this while time and will continue. I’ve given up enough and I took on the risk (however small it is) to be vaccinated. I’m just done staying home while the world marches on and the anti vaxxers have all the fun they’ve been having all along. 
 

Unless I am able to relocate this is my life. I’m going to rejoin society. 

[ktgrok]

15 minutes ago, Frances said:

We have highly effective vaccines available to anyone who wants them (at least in my state). If people choose not to protect themselves with a vaccine and socialize as normal, then that’s on them.

Well, except for kids. 

[Ausmumof3]

I don’t think it’s clear cut.  Going may look like approval but staying away may look like you don’t trust the vaccine which may give more fodder to the vaccine.  If you go you can always say how good it feels to be able to go out without being over worried.  I am worried about the variants but it seems the mRNA vaccines are somewhat better there.

[Frances]

2 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Well, except for kids. 

Of course, that goes without saying.

[Ausmumof3]

4 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

And I’m thinking, going is automatically a vote of support. Being absent doesn’t necessarily make a statement, there are any number of reasons she might not be there. Maybe had another commitment elsewhere. All she has to say is, “Sorry, I can’t do that,” no explanation required. Her presence would be easier to draw conclusions about than her absence. IMO anyway. 

Hmm true 

[fairfarmhand]

13 hours ago, purpleowl said:

I would not have an ethical problem with it. At this point, in my area of the world at least, any adult who wants to get vaccinated has had the opportunity to do so. The people I know who haven't been vaccinated don't plan to get vaccinated, or they plan to wait a while longer. I am not going to change their minds about that. My presence or absence at the event will not change their attitude toward the event or toward the vaccine. If I wanted to do it and felt safe (I understand that vaccinated people have differing levels of comfort with such things), I would do it.

Exception to the above is if it's an event that kids generally attend, since that age group has not yet had a chance to become vaccinated. I wouldn't participate in that because my own kids wouldn't be going.

 

11 hours ago, Frances said:

This is where I’m starting to land. If people have the opportunity and choose not to get vaccinated (I’m not including those who can’t for health reasons), I’m not responsible for them anymore. I’m in a pretty blue state and our governor just lifted most mask mandates, although individual places can still choose to have them. If I felt comfortable being there myself (which I’m not 100%) sure I would be) I don’t see it as unethical anymore. We have highly effective vaccines available to anyone who wants them (at least in my state). If people choose not to protect themselves with a vaccine and socialize as normal, then that’s on them.

Yes, in my area, (other than children) vaccines are readily available. There's more vaccine than people to take the appointments. At some point, I have to be ok with certain people taking that level of risk onto themselves. That's their decision. And I say this as a person who has a very close family member who believes that the vaccine is some sort of government plot and won't be getting it. But, should this person (who is in a higher risk category) decide to attend similar events (and they have and do this a lot) and contract Covid, I've accepted that was their decision. I pray it won't happen. I've lost a mother in law to this terrible illness, but at some point, I have to accept the irrational decision of my loved one. 

We can't stop the world because some people refuse to behave logically.

So for my area, this decision is easy. For other areas, it may be different. 

My thoughts would be different if children were involved in this event, because parents don't have that choice right now.

[SKL]

IMO if you go and you are vaxed, you are reducing the number of non-vaxed people there and making it safer overall.

If morally/ethically opposed to having the event happen, then I would probably say so and decline to attend.  But if you aren't against the event, only the behavior of certain people involved, I would probably not back out for that reason.

[ktgrok]

10 hours ago, Frances said:

Of course, that goes without saying.

Except when people are saying, it doesn't matter, because those that want to be vaccinated, have been. It's important to remember that large numbers have NOT been vaccinated who would want to be, becasue they are not eligible yet. Or weren't until yesterday. 

When EVERYONE who wants to be vaccinated, including kids, has been, that will change my behavior and approach. But at this point, unmasked  events put kids who have no say in the matter at risk. So I would not want to support those events. 

[frogger]

Mercy, you have always tried to do what is right and kind. Whatever you decide, please remember that God is gracious and that you need to accept that and give yourself grace also. You needn't feel guilty about it either way.

[Spy Car]

If one were to help facilitate an event where one was fully aware in advance that the conditions would put people at an unreasonably high risk of contracting a potentially lethal disease and if someone at the event subsequently became seriously ill or even died as a result of attending this function, then I'd consider the actions of facilitating the event makes one morally culpable and complicit.

Kudos to @MercyA  for making the ethical choice here.

Bill