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So...if hearing me rant about Covid regulations not being followed (in an area still flirting with 10% positivity), or about the change in the Catholic Church, or a random side note about head coverings that admittedly has nothing to do with anything, will bother you, stop reading now, lol. 

-Begin rant-

Time to leave another group. Was still part of a Catholic homeschool group for Florida...and someone moving to Fl asked for recommendations of parishes in the state that do not require masks. MULTIPLE people gave options, happily telling of parishes with no masks - one of which is right here in Orlando - a parish I actually considered attending a few years ago. The "more Catholic than the Pope" sentiment is strong in these groups. Trust me when I say, fundamentalist converts have brought their fundie ways with them. And taken over the homeschool groups in particular. They would consider using birth control a sin worthy of hell, but hey, no need to follow guidelines about Covid or even the regulations put in place by your own Bishop. Following the Magesterium is only important when it aligns with your own views.

And heaven forbid anyone tell them that Jesus didn't speak Latin and the Latin Mass is not actually more holy than one in English. Or that covering one's head in Mass although a nice personal piety, is not required, and if one thinks that Paul meant it was, than they should cover their heads at all times, not just Mass, as that was what Paul was referring to. If you should cover your head whenever you pray, and you should pray without ceasing, then....guess what ladies - that's 24/7, not just a pretty (culturally appropriated) mantilla at Mass once a week.

-end rant-

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Although I’m Episcopalian, my husband is Catholic, and we attended Catholic Church together for about a decade. I’ve been trying to reconcile what I knew and experienced in the Catholic Church (basically, a very strong devotion to living a life of sacrifice) with what I’m hearing from my current Catholic friends. It really isn’t even an exaggeration to say they believe they are more Catholic than the pope. 
 

But your post did connect the dots I wasn’t connecting. My current Catholic friends are almost all converts. And the ones who are not, are much more in favor of masking and vaccinating. 

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3 minutes ago, Amy Gen said:

Although I’m Episcopalian, my husband is Catholic, and we attended Catholic Church together for about a decade. I’ve been trying to reconcile what I knew and experienced in the Catholic Church (basically, a very strong devotion to living a life of sacrifice) with what I’m hearing from my current Catholic friends. It really isn’t even an exaggeration to say they believe they are more Catholic than the pope. 
 

But your post did connect the dots I wasn’t connecting. My current Catholic friends are almost all converts. And the ones who are not, are much more in favor of masking and vaccinating. 

Yup. It used to be a funny saying - now it really is what they think. And yup - pretty much this is coming almost entirely from converts. I'm was a convert myself, but grew up a few blocks from a Catholic church, many of my friends growing up were Catholic, etc. And I converted two decades ago, before this current wave of whatever this is. 

Oh, the other group are older generation who are easy prey to internet conspiracies of any sort - religious as well as otherwise. So some of my childhood friends' parents. In those cases I feel there is mental illness as well, and always has been. 

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Posted (edited)

I totally feel you.  Mine is like that too.  Most have been asking for things that don't require masks.  They had a mom's meeting and the organizer said, "Masks will be optional.  If you feel safer wearing one, that's fine but it's not required."  They don't understand source control.  I haven't gone to anything in the last year because of covid.  Now that I'm vaccinated and would be willing to go, it looks like they don't want me.  A handful have been posting the nonsense about vaccinated people shedding vaccine that could infect people around them and cause them to have miscarriage.  These are the same people exposing themselves to covid through many social activities and mask-shunning.  Well, the feeling is mutual, idiots, I didn't really want to be around your unvaccinated kids when I was pregnant and waiting for titers.  Likewise, my kids aren't eligible for covid vax yet and I'd rather not have them around unvaccinated adults.  I'm beyond done with these morons.  Just trying to suppress the urge to hairflip.

Edited by Syllieann
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You're describing my parents. The only way I've been able to reconcile their talk about the bishop, their Covid denial, and the holier than the Pope belief, is that they are schismatics. I just don't listen to anything they say now about it, and I tell myself I *can't* listen to what they say since they aren't Catholic as much as some weird carnival house image of Catholic. I don't think there is mental illness as much as a metal decline + fervor to go to heaven now that they are closer + conspiracy mindset tendencies + a strong nostalgia for "the way things used to be" (even though it's not a real picture) + fighting against losing their authority. And a good dose of self-righteousness and pride, of course. I mean, holier than the pope? LOL. 

I was ignored out of the Latin Mass community years ago, way back when A was a baby, so I don't have to worry about the home school group part at least. I do miss the veils, though, lol. (But obviously agree, personal choice, not a must-wear accessory for holiness. I just had the prettiest veil, lol. And the not-prettiest hair 😉 )

 

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10 minutes ago, Moonhawk said:

You're describing my parents. The only way I've been able to reconcile their talk about the bishop, their Covid denial, and the holier than the Pope belief, is that they are schismatics. I just don't listen to anything they say now about it, and I tell myself I *can't* listen to what they say since they aren't Catholic as much as some weird carnival house image of Catholic. I don't think there is mental illness as much as a metal decline + fervor to go to heaven now that they are closer + conspiracy mindset tendencies + a strong nostalgia for "the way things used to be" (even though it's not a real picture) + fighting against losing their authority. And a good dose of self-righteousness and pride, of course. I mean, holier than the pope? LOL. 

I was ignored out of the Latin Mass community years ago, way back when A was a baby, so I don't have to worry about the home school group part at least. I do miss the veils, though, lol. (But obviously agree, personal choice, not a must-wear accessory for holiness. I just had the prettiest veil, lol. And the not-prettiest hair 😉 )

 

You are right about that.   My group has TLM-only members and a strange opposition to lay Eucharistic ministers that causes them to position themselves in pews where they know the priest will disseminate directly.  Many will only do pre-Vatican 2 catechism.  It is schismatic.  That's a very helpful way to look at it.

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Well I'm not catholic, but there are a bunch of nut jobs in my homeschool group.  There's this one lady in particular that keeps messaging me when they plan a group activity (yes they are still gathering) and asking if I'm getting lonely and bored yet.  No.  No I am not even close to bored.  lol  She also sent me a video put out by Debi Pearl and advice on how to stay healthy during this time. 

Not crazy home school group people related, but I saw on my local news the state bordering me has no mask mandate anymore, so the county school boards had to vote on whether to require masks or not.  One actually voted 5-1 to no longer require mask.  WTH.  I just can't even fathom sending a child to school without a mask.  I feel nervous just having my kid in a crowd with a mask.

 

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8 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

You are right about that.   My group has TLM-only members and a strange opposition to lay Eucharistic ministers that causes them to position themselves in pews where they know the priest will disseminate directly.  Many will only do pre-Vatican 2 catechism.  It is schismatic.  That's a very helpful way to look at it.

Embarrassment time, lol. I still receive communion only on the tongue, I just can't bring myself to switch to hands. I know *theoretically* both are acceptable but if I receive on my hands I have the conviction that I would need to lick it after to get all of the crumbs (I know it's irrational). So I do position to go to a priest for communion but it's mostly because when I get an EM they either don't know how to put it in my mouth or they make the "ew gross" face as they do it, lol (and usually both). I don't want to cause them discomfort or stress so I try to line up with a priest when I can.

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29 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Our diocese has done a really good job as far as messaging about covid.  There are strict mask requirements at all the churches in our area, as well as other safety precautions.  

What I do run into, sometimes, are people who judge Catholics who disagree with church teachings on issues like birth control or same sex marriage, but then disagree with church teachings such as moving away from the Latin mass.  

I THOUGHT the Diocese here was pretty strict/clear - given what I see from the parish I belonged to. But I guess not, given what was said about the one across town. 

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Agree about the schismatic thing. I joined the Church through one of the more traddy movements and still have devoted friends from our previous parish, but when we moved, I went to the closest parish involved with that movement and... I mean I mask but am not deeply concerned if others aren't masking around me, but the place was packed with no social distancing and no masks. I wouldn't have been as concerned if it had been one or the other, but both was beyond me. So we go to the regular parish that is carefully following diocesan regulations and I put up with the banal music 😛 

As a convert who thought very carefully about this stuff before signing on the dotted line, I will not put up with people saying "We have two popes" or "Smoke of Satan" etc etc. The previous parish I attended was extremely well-catechized and most of the converts were from 30-40 years ago when things were really bad, so I didn't realize exactly how toxic a lot of the parishes in the movement are. I have one friend who keeps sending me End Times stuff and interviews with sedevacantists/schismatics, and I literally ignore them. I only respond when she asks how we are doing or invites me for a walk. If she brings it up in person, I tell her I trust that the Holy Spirit is guiding the Church.

It's probably my background, but I have an allergy to showy stuff like going out of my way to kneel when everyone else is receiving standing. It was a delight when my parish decided the best way to deal with Covid restrictions was to rope off alternating pews and send the EMHCs through the empty pews to distribute the Eucharist person by person... I could receive kneeling, like I did as a child and like I always want to, and not feel like a showoff.

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That is so totally foreign to me and the liberation theology Catholicism with which I am familiar. You know, where there was awareness of socio-economic injustice and priests and nuns fought for the poor and often were arrested or even murdered for advocating for the oppressed. Kind of like Jesus is supposed to have done... 🙄

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It was inevitable to happen sadly.  We had a generation of poorly catechized Catholics raising even more poorly catechized Catholics.  As a convert yourself do you realize how little most Catholics actually know about what the Church teaches?  It is a sorry state the Church has created for itself.  So, it isn't surprising to me that the push back to extreme.  But it is sad because it creates this huge divide and almost zero attempt to meet in the middle.  

I ran a Catholic homeschool group prior to the pandemic and have not even attempted to start it back up again because of the members who are the type you are ranting about.  I have zero desire to fight with my friends about wearing a mask.  I love the Latin Mass, it is beautiful but the Ordinary form of the Mass is just as holy as it.  

Oddly, most of the people I know with that mindset are not converts.  They were just so poorly catechized that when they sought to learn as adults they might as well have been converts.

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3 minutes ago, bibiche said:

That is so totally foreign to me and the liberation theology Catholicism with which I am familiar. You know, where there was awareness of socio-economic injustice and priests and nuns fought for the poor and often were arrested or even murdered for advocating for the oppressed. Kind of like Jesus is supposed to have done... 🙄

Yeah, there are still parishes like that, and nuns and priests like that, and Catholics like that. But they are reviled in many circles, especially homeschool groups. Ask me how I know....I've been kicked out of one, and had to leave others. That was when I was still active in the Church, attending Mass weekly, kids in parish activities and religious education plus using Catholic homeschooling materials, listening to Catholic radio shows, reading books and articles on theology, etc. Had also taken a graduate level course at a major university called Modern Catholicism - From Trent to the Present Day. And yet...I was the one that wasn't Catholic enough, or educated enough, etc. 

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3 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

It was inevitable to happen sadly.  We had a generation of poorly catechized Catholics raising even more poorly catechized Catholics.  As a convert yourself do you realize how little most Catholics actually know about what the Church teaches?  It is a sorry state the Church has created for itself.  So, it isn't surprising to me that the push back to extreme.  But it is sad because it creates this huge divide and almost zero attempt to meet in the middle.  

I ran a Catholic homeschool group prior to the pandemic and have not even attempted to start it back up again because of the members who are the type you are ranting about.  I have zero desire to fight with my friends about wearing a mask.  I love the Latin Mass, it is beautiful but the Ordinary form of the Mass is just as holy as it.  

Oddly, most of the people I know with that mindset are not converts.  They were just so poorly catechized that when they sought to learn as adults they might as well have been converts.

Interesting...I think there were some of those as well. But then anyone who disagreed was told "you were just poorly catechized" no matter WHEN it was or HOW...it was a blanket excuse thrown at anyone who disagreed. I got it tossed at me SO many times...and I was catechized as an adult, and like I said, had studied the Church fathers, encyclicals, etc at a graduate level. But hey....obviously the lady watching a youtube channel with a schismatic priest is the one that knows better...or so she felt, lol. 

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The Latin Mass community [that I grew up in] had a great priest who loved the beauty of TLM but was clear it was not the *only* valid Mass despite the tendencies of his flock. His personality was a force to be reckoned with so he could keep everyone in line. He was definitely a fire and brimstone preacher and often appeared on the traditional Catholic sites/shows, but was not an exclusionist in any way and was not judgmental (which seems at odds with his pulpit persona, but was true). Once he died, the community definitely turned up the extremity to an 11 and it's a shame. RIP Fr Rego.

I would love to be able to attend a Latin Mass again without the attendant community issues, hopefully someday we'll move to an area that has a good option. 

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And here I thought Baptists had cornered the market on irritating, inflexible, ungracious, religious nutjobs.

Here's my question...

Were all these people here before social media and they just didn't say anything, or were they always there but because of SM they're now emboldened and band together to make whole groups of nutjobs? Or are they all discipled through SM? 

I just think I'm seeing nutjobism become much more mainstream than I can remember in the past. At least in the past, I'd hear people say things like "This is my opinion and you're free to disagree..." and then share whatever nutty thing they thought of.

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11 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

And here I thought Baptists had cornered the market on irritating, inflexible, ungracious, religious nutjobs.

Here's my question...

Were all these people here before social media and they just didn't say anything, or were they always there but because of SM they're now emboldened and band together to make whole groups of nutjobs? Or are they all discipled through SM? 

I just think I'm seeing nutjobism become much more mainstream than I can remember in the past. At least in the past, I'd hear people say things like "This is my opinion and you're free to disagree..." and then share whatever nutty thing they thought of.

I think they are being "discipled" on social media, to a large extent. Before, a whackadoodle with whackadoodle schismatic teachings would be hard pressed to get their ideas out to the masses. Now, it is easy. 

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Our state no longer has a mask mandate. Our bishop/diocese highly encourages them. I haven't gone back to Mass yet (actually, my first will be this weekend, as I am someone's Confirmation sponsor). Anyway, I had to stop at our church to chat with our priest after a weekday Mass last week. I wanted to cry because basically no one was wearing a mask (well, the priest was). 

And I know of at least one parish that has removed the ropes from the pews (meant to enforce distancing). 

There is truth (for me) and beauty in the Catholic faith. Yet I am deeply saddened by the behavior of many in the Church re: this pandemic. I remain grateful that our bishop is leading as he is. 

@MoonhawkI rarely attend Latin Mass, though I like it. (It's more of a drive and at less convenient to us times.) But I do like wearing a veil for Mass. And so i often do, whether I am attending Latin Mass or not! I am almost always the only person in our parish veiling. Oh well. I don't do it for others; I do it for me. (It did take me a Mass or two to get comfortable with being the only person. Now it doesn't phase me at all!)

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1 hour ago, Moonhawk said:

Embarrassment time, lol. I still receive communion only on the tongue, I just can't bring myself to switch to hands. I know *theoretically* both are acceptable but if I receive on my hands I have the conviction that I would need to lick it after to get all of the crumbs (I know it's irrational). So I do position to go to a priest for communion but it's mostly because when I get an EM they either don't know how to put it in my mouth or they make the "ew gross" face as they do it, lol (and usually both). I don't want to cause them discomfort or stress so I try to line up with a priest when I can.

I don't think that attending Latin Mass, or receiving communion on the tongue (unless it's covid and you're putting a priest at risk), or wearing a mantilla is a problem.  I think that communicating that these things are required or better for other, when the church clearly states that they aren't, is a problem, although I would respect someone's right to have that opinion.  When I think it becomes hypocrisy is if someone tells someone that they can't be a good Catholic if they attend a same sex wedding, or vote for a pro-choice candidate, because they need to follow church teachings 24/7, and then challenges the church teaching on the language of the mass, or covid precautions, or the death penalty. 

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2 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Yup. It used to be a funny saying - now it really is what they think. And yup - pretty much this is coming almost entirely from converts. I'm was a convert myself, but grew up a few blocks from a Catholic church, many of my friends growing up were Catholic, etc. And I converted two decades ago, before this current wave of whatever this is. 

Oh, the other group are older generation who are easy prey to internet conspiracies of any sort - religious as well as otherwise. So some of my childhood friends' parents. In those cases I feel there is mental illness as well, and always has been. 

I think it’s moral certainty. Evangelicals are waking up to the huge problems and abuses in the evangelical world.  They turn on YouTube and search a little and here’s some answers.

Whether the answers are correct or not, they certainly say them with a lot of confidence. Especially when you get into that father… I’m blanking on his name.  Maybe Risenger.  He’s an exorcist and loves to give long sermons with so much moral certainty because he believes that people who are possessed have demons inside who can’t lie to him if he says the right prayers.

Oh, and somehow the bit of latin in Harry Potter makes the spells more real and likely to result in demon possession than if a child said the same words in a modern language. 🙄

Anyway my point is, people love to have moral certainty. It’s a drug to feel superior to the rest of us.

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38 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I don't think that attending Latin Mass, or receiving communion on the tongue (unless it's covid and you're putting a priest at risk), or wearing a mantilla is a problem.  I think that communicating that these things are required or better for other, when the church clearly states that they aren't, is a problem, although I would respect someone's right to have that opinion.  When I think it becomes hypocrisy is if someone tells someone that they can't be a good Catholic if they attend a same sex wedding, or vote for a pro-choice candidate, because they need to follow church teachings 24/7, and then challenges the church teaching on the language of the mass, or covid precautions, or the death penalty. 

Exactly! I even have covered when attending a Latin Mass, as it was the culture there, and modesty says I shouldn't stand out. And one of my favorite little old ladies at my home parish always wore a veil - along with her polyester pants. And left right after communion, shuffling out. Loved her - i think she wanted to get her pick of seats for the bus ride home to the assisted living community, lol. 

But worshipping the IDEA of something, because it is "traditional" is NOT what Catholicsm or big T tradition is about. 

I personally prefer receiving communion when kneeling, at an altar rail, but I go with the flow, and don't care what others do. Although...I have to work a bit harder not to judge or feel annoyed when someone kneels several feet AWAY from the priest, then shuffles up on their knees, taking 3 times as long as everyone else before making it to the priest. That seems...excessive...but maybe she has a great reason. 

But insisting on following the Magesterium EXCEPT when you want to be more conservative is not being "traditional". 

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Posted (edited)

The diocese here has been really proactive about Covid.  Masking, distance, communion is the host only, reduced capacity with registration online being required at the largest parishes still.  They are also proactively encouraging vaccination.  CYO isn’t doing overnight camps this summer- just day camps.  And they seem to be making a proactive plan around a return to in person youth groups.  

I’m really sorry about your experience.  That kind of thinking would be hard to deal with for me.   I know that it’s very geographically varied.  Even here in what I still jokingly refer to as Hunthausen’s Seattle, there are definitely those who fancy themselves as more Catholic than the pope.  

I was listening to a live Q&A with Father Michael Ryan of St. James Cathedral last night and he definitely had some comments on the diversity of thought in the church.  I was really interested to hear his thoughts, though of course he’s very circumspect in characterizing those who disagree with him.  

 

Edited by LucyStoner
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@ktgrokI wish you could come hang out at my parish in Seattle.  We could (gently) make fun of the Pilates moms, and everyone would be masked.

(My 1st grader just told me that a classmate is having a slumber party for her birthday, so maybe our COVID precautions aren’t *perfect* but the church is taking it seriously...)

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A few women at my local parish veil.  I don’t have an issue with it at all but because veiling is so uncommon, it does strike me as a little immodest which I think is the opposite of the supposed intent.  

I don’t think women covering their heads in church is cultural appropriation though- my grandmother covered, presumably most people over a certain age had Catholic grandmothers who simply did did not enter a sanctuary with an uncovered head.  A hat was usually her covering of choice.  It’s not necessary though and it’s certainly not more holy. 
 

But what do I know?  My idea of getting dressed for Church is to throw on my nicer winter coat over jeans without holes in them unless it’s entirely too warm for jeans or a winter coat.  If I have brushed my hair, I’m ahead of the game.  Also, having been away from the church during the changes to the missal, I was mighty confused until I bought a new missal.  Even with that I’m still a little like “ and with your what?!”

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14 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

A few women at my local parish veil.  I don’t have an issue with it at all but because veiling is so uncommon, it does strike me as a little immodest which I think is the opposite of the supposed intent.  

I don’t think women covering their heads in church is cultural appropriation though- my grandmother covered, presumably most people over a certain age had Catholic grandmothers who simply did did not enter a sanctuary with an uncovered head.  A hat was usually her covering of choice.  It’s not necessary though and it’s certainly not more holy. 
 

But what do I know?  My idea of getting dressed for Church is to throw on my nicer winter coat over jeans without holes in them unless it’s entirely too warm for jeans or a winter coat.  If I have brushed my hair, I’m ahead of the game.  Also, having been away from the church during the changes to the missal, I was mighty confused until I bought a new missal.  Even with that I’m still a little like “ and with your what?!”

Oh, I'm not meaning that covering is cultural appropriation - just the mantilla in specific. And even then, I don't actually care, particularly, lol. 

I have no issue with people veiling, kneeling, etc....just don't tell me that the church is WRONG and it HAS to be done, then say other things are WRONG because you can't go against church teaching. It doesn't work that way. 

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19 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

A few women at my local parish veil.  I don’t have an issue with it at all but because veiling is so uncommon, it does strike me as a little immodest which I think is the opposite of the supposed intent.  

I don’t think women covering their heads in church is cultural appropriation though- my grandmother covered, presumably most people over a certain age had Catholic grandmothers who simply did did not enter a sanctuary with an uncovered head.  A hat was usually her covering of choice.  It’s not necessary though and it’s certainly not more holy. 
 

But what do I know?  My idea of getting dressed for Church is to throw on my nicer winter coat over jeans without holes in them unless it’s entirely too warm for jeans or a winter coat.  If I have brushed my hair, I’m ahead of the game.  Also, having been away from the church during the changes to the missal, I was mighty confused until I bought a new missal.  Even with that I’m still a little like “ and with your what?!”

Lol at bolded.  I change from sweats to jeans for church and I try to have my kids wear things without holes.  I don't have a lot of nice dress clothes since leaving my career ten years ago.  There is another homeschool family at our church from which one of the girls told me their dad always makes them wear dresses because he thinks it's improper to wear regular clothes/jeans to church.  Now I always feel like they are side-eyeing us, but I can't bring myself to waste all that money on clothes that will only be worn a few times when there are so many more deserving things like food pantry and clean water ministries.

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53 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Oh, I'm not meaning that covering is cultural appropriation - just the mantilla in specific. And even then, I don't actually care, particularly, lol. 

I have no issue with people veiling, kneeling, etc....just don't tell me that the church is WRONG and it HAS to be done, then say other things are WRONG because you can't go against church teaching. It doesn't work that way. 

The mantilla was very stylish right before Vatican II ditched the head covering requirement. My Polish grandma had one. There's an iconic picture of Jackie Kennedy in one:

http://www.thecompassnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/1419CNS-JackieKennedyWEB2.jpg

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DD goes to Mass in Docs and flannels. Her parish (I'm lapsed) seems to be pretty much the same as the one I grew up in - liberation lite, I guess? 

But I have definitely met Very Holy Homeschoolers, who fall into two groups - the genuinely God-focused, and the others. 

Some of the loveliest homeschoolers I knew were VHH's of the first kind. 

I think the main difference is where the CC fits politically here. The Anglican church, particularly in my state, upholds the more regressive social stances, leaving the CC free to take more progressive stances on SOME issues, including health, housing, Indigenous issues.

 

 

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Did you guys see how the bishops are voting on something at their next meeting that "discourage" politicians from receiving communion if they are not pro-life enough? It's about President Biden but would be meaningless because the bishop of Washington, DC has said that he won't forbid Biden from receiving communion. 

 

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7 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Or that covering one's head in Mass although a nice personal piety, is not required, and if one thinks that Paul meant it was, than they should cover their heads at all times, not just Mass, as that was what Paul was referring to. If you should cover your head whenever you pray, and you should pray without ceasing, then....guess what ladies - that's 24/7, not just a pretty (culturally appropriated) mantilla at Mass once a week.

Well...as someone who used to cover all day and now covers just for worship services, I think both positions are Scripturally defensible. 😉 

Totally with you on the COVID stuff and the hypocrisy of being "pro-life" but anti-mask / anti-social distancing / anti-vaccination. And the thing that kills me is that they just can't see it. 😞 

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51 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

My Barbie had a mantilla, lol. I saw them frequently in the 70's. Not unusual at all back then. 

LOL, I love it.

My mom let me play with her lacy circlet veil in the 70's--she was Episcopalian before marrying. She said if they forget their veil as children, they would put a Kleenex on their head when passing through the sanctuary. 

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Posted (edited)

This whole thread is interesting (and discouraging) to me, as I have always felt drawn to the Catholic church but have some irreconcilable differences with it. I admire their pro-life, anti-war, pro-immigrant, help-the-poor stances. Other than some Anabaptists, there are precious few churches with a consistent life ethic around. I'm sad to hear that some parishes seemingly don't care about protecting the vulnerable from sickness. 

Edited by MercyA
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1 hour ago, chiguirre said:

The mantilla was very stylish right before Vatican II ditched the head covering requirement. My Polish grandma had one. There's an iconic picture of Jackie Kennedy in one:

http://www.thecompassnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/1419CNS-JackieKennedyWEB2.jpg

Yes, my understanding is that Jacki Kennedy is why it became so popular? Many areas had head coverings but the mantilla in particular, my understanding anyway, was not a common thing until then. Hats, scarves, kerchiefs, etc were the norm. 

I used an infinity scarf, if I remember right, when I attended a Latin Mass. And sometimes I wear hats 🙂

23 minutes ago, MercyA said:

This whole thread is interesting (and discouraging) to me, as I have always felt drawn to the Catholic church but have some irreconcilable differences with it. I admired their pro-life, anti-war, pro-immigrant, help-the-poor stances. Other than some Anabaptists, there are precious few churches with a consistent life ethic around. I'm sad to hear that some parishes seemingly don't care about protecting the vulnerable from sickness. 

Yes. Can we just have our own church 🙂 I know we'd have a nice time together anyway 🙂

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2 hours ago, Syllieann said:

Lol at bolded.  I change from sweats to jeans for church and I try to have my kids wear things without holes.  I don't have a lot of nice dress clothes since leaving my career ten years ago.  There is another homeschool family at our church from which one of the girls told me their dad always makes them wear dresses because he thinks it's improper to wear regular clothes/jeans to church.  Now I always feel like they are side-eyeing us, but I can't bring myself to waste all that money on clothes that will only be worn a few times when there are so many more deserving things like food pantry and clean water ministries.

The priest at the church where I had my catechism classes and my first sacraments as a child was notorious for his casual attire.  He’d come over for dinner at our place in jeans all the time.  

I’ve always been a bit of a tomboy.  My parents couldn’t prevail upon me to wear a dress except on a limited number of days.  In my earliest memory it was Christmas and Easter. I also wore a dress for my first communion.  Then for awhile it was just Easter.  We were pretty poor and usually my grandparents sent money at Christmas and Easter and that was to buy us clothes.  Then by the time I was 9 or 10, I ditched that dress too.  I think my mom didn’t want to spend money on clothes I wouldn’t wear again, since I otherwise lived in jeans and a sports shirt.  

When I was a preteen I was an altar server in the Episcopalian church (my parents left the Catholic Church for awhile there) and when it was suggested by a woman there that I wear a dress under the robe, I remembered the priest with his casual clothing and was just like, nah, no one can see anything except the altar service robe and overlay so clearly it doesn’t matter.  The one thing I would do was make sure I was wearing decent looking socks when I was serving.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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41 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Did you guys see how the bishops are voting on something at their next meeting that "discourage" politicians from receiving communion if they are not pro-life enough? It's about President Biden but would be meaningless because the bishop of Washington, DC has said that he won't forbid Biden from receiving communion. 

 

There’s been a varying number of bishops around for decades who go on about that but it’s higher profile now that we have another Catholic president- before it was directed at Congressmen and Senators.  I have a low appetite for mixing politics and religion.  There’s no political party that is in lockstep with Catholic teaching or even consistent on sanctity of life issues. 

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