Seeking Algebra 1 input and suggestions

[CHSgirl]

Hello everyone, I am researching Algebra 1 curriculum for my oldest, who is in 7th grade, and will be starting Algebra 1 this coming school year. We used Primary Mathematics through 5th grade then transitioned to Math Mammoth for both 6th grade and pre algebra.  I loved having the homeschool educator guides for Primary Mathematics along with the answer keys, along with the Lesson Plan, teaching videos and answer keys with Math Mammoth. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems  that once you get to Algebra 1, gone are the days of easily purchased and comprehensive home educator guides, teaching videos, and laid out answer keys, correct?  If so, how do you plan out your lessons and ensure that all of your student's answers are correct without having to solve all of the problems yourself? For example, I see that Foerster's Algebra only has answers for odd numbered problems.

Also, any recommendations for a good curriculum to transition to, having come from Primary Mathematics and then Math Mammoth?

Thank you so much for any input. 

[8filltheheart]

For alg 1, Foersters offers a solutions manual with worked out solutions.

[RootAnn]

For Alg 2, the Foerster Teacher Manual has answers to all the problems included.

[ScoutTN]

We used Dolciani for Alg 1 and 2, and the solutions manuals have answers worked for all problems.  

[Lori D.]

Math programs with DVD lessons AND complete solutions manuals:

- Teaching Textbooks -- videos work out every single problem, if needed; free tutoring over the phone; e-book answer key
- Videotext -- video lessons, student text, solutions manual, tests booklet, teacher guide
- Chalkdust -- video lessons, textbook, solutions manual
- Saxon - textbook, solutions manual, tests booklet; optional DIVE-CDs or Art Reed DVDs for video lesson support

 

3 hours ago, CHSgirl said:

Also, any recommendations for a good curriculum to transition to, having come from Primary Mathematics and then Math Mammoth?

DS#1 went from Miquon to Singapore Primary to Harold Jacobs Algebra 1 (original ed.) and Geometry (2nd ed.), and loved all of them. Foerster might also be a possibility to transition to. And if your student really enjoys Math and problem-solving, Art of Problem Solving might be a possibility.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Lori D.

[Farrar]

We used Jacob's, which I'm adding because no one mentioned it and I puffy heart adore it. You can get the solutions guide and the textbook in the reprint from Rainbow Resources, among other places.

Also, no one has mentioned Art of Problem Solving... their solutions guides are very detailed.

There are a lot of online and outsourced ways to teach math starting at algebra. A lot of homeschool parents these days want to outsource this subject. But you really don't have to. It's up to you and what's right for you. I was really glad I kept algebra in house. But by Algebra II, I knew that others would do a better job than me.

[CHSgirl]

9 hours ago, RootAnn said:

For Alg 2, the Foerster Teacher Manual has answers to all the problems included.

I don’t know how I overlooked that. Did you use both the teachers manual and the solutions manual? 

[CHSgirl]

10 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

For alg 1, Foersters offers a solutions manual with worked out solutions.

Do you mind me asking if  you used Foerster’s? And whether you used the teachers manual as well? I don’t know how I overlooked the solutions manual.

[CHSgirl]

8 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Math programs with DVD lessons AND complete solutions manuals:

- Teaching Textbooks -- videos work out every single problem, if needed; free tutoring over the phone; e-book answer key
- Videotext -- video lessons, student text, solutions manual, tests booklet, teacher guide
- Chalkdust -- video lessons, textbook, solutions manual
- Saxon - textbook, solutions manual, tests booklet; optional DIVE-CDs or Art Reed DVDs for video lesson support

 

DS#1 went from Miquon to Singapore Primary to Harold Jacobs Algebra 1 (original ed.) and Geometry (2nd ed.), and loved all of them. Foerster might also be a possibility to transition to. And if your student really enjoys Math and problem-solving, Art of Problem Solving might be a possibility.

Thank you so much for the detailed recommendations. I think DS is capable of AoPS, but she doesn’t love math, so I don’t know that I want to do that to her. Personally, I’d love to take AoPS algebra! 
 

I wanted to ask about Jacobs. I saw a review that Maria Miller from Math Mammoth wrote, which said that Jacobs doesn’t go as in depth as Foerster’s. did you find that to be true? And would you say your child “mathy”? 

Edited May 6, 2021 by CHSgirl

[CHSgirl]

8 hours ago, Farrar said:

We used Jacob's, which I'm adding because no one mentioned it and I puffy heart adore it. You can get the solutions guide and the textbook in the reprint from Rainbow Resources, among other places.

Also, no one has mentioned Art of Problem Solving... their solutions guides are very detailed.

There are a lot of online and outsourced ways to teach math starting at algebra. A lot of homeschool parents these days want to outsource this subject. But you really don't have to. It's up to you and what's right for you. I was really glad I kept algebra in house. But by Algebra II, I knew that others would do a better job than me.

Thank you so much. I wanted to ask you what I asked Lori D. Did you feel that Jacobs went deep

enough?  And is your child “mathy”? I read Maria Miller’s Algebra 1 reviews, which said that Jacobs didn’t dive down deep enough, which is why I was leaning towards Foerster’s. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by CHSgirl

[skctgbrlis]

I love CLE’s new Algebra text. Together with the solutions manual, that’s all we’ve needed this year for very solid algebra instruction. 

[8filltheheart]

9 minutes ago, CHSgirl said:

Do you mind me asking if  you used Foerster’s? And whether you used the teachers manual as well? I don’t know how I overlooked the solutions manual.

I have taken 7 of my 8 kids through it. My 8th will next yr. No, I dont use the TM. We do odds or evens for most sections except for the word problems. They do all of the word problems. 

[RootAnn]

24 minutes ago, CHSgirl said:

I don’t know how I overlooked that. Did you use both the teachers manual and the solutions manual? 

I own both for Alg 2. I used only the SM with my oldest as she took an outsourced class with Foerster Alg 2. For kids #2 & #3, I only use the TM since I teach from the TM. @8filltheheart's kids teach themselves from the text, I believe, which is possible because the book is very accessible. My kids do better at this stage (alg 2) with someone actively teaching them.

My dd#2 used Jacobs for Alg 1 and I loved it for her. She's whatever the opposite of mathy is.

[8filltheheart]

No, I work with them. I just havent seen anything in the TM that's that helpful. 

[cintinative]

We use Dolciani.  The only thing I have noticed regarding the TE versus solution manual thing is that sometimes the classroom exercise answers are not in the Solution Manual. Also, the TE has schedules in it for an average, accelerated, or minimum course so I use that to figure out what problems to assign. 

[RootAnn]

11 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

No, I work with them. I just havent seen anything in the TM that's that helpful. 

Do you have a 2nd copy of the text, then? I need my own book because I go though the examples with them on the whiteboard. It is a lot easier for me to only have one book out than a 2nd copy of the student text plus the SM. 

The TM has suggestions for what to assign and comments on certain problems like #6 & 7 are just like the examples, #8-12 require the student to apply the  [technique taught] and #13-14 look more complicated but are actually easier if the student notices [something that makes it easier]. It also sometimes has other suggested examples but I've never used those because there are plenty in the book.

[8filltheheart]

I own the TM as well as 2 textbooks.

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, CHSgirl said:

Thank you so much. I wanted to ask you what I asked Lori D. Did you feel that Jacobs went deep

enough?  And is your child “mathy”? I read Maria Miller’s Algebra 1 reviews, which said that Jacobs didn’t dive down deep enough, which is why I was leaning towards Foerster’s. 

I think Maria Miller's review is just all wrong about Jacob's and simply doesn't get the beauty of the program. It's not as challenging as some other programs - I'd say AoPS, Dolciani, and Foerster's have harder challenging problems, but it absolutely goes deep. It's much more conceptual than most of the other programs out there save the "harder" ones I just mentioned. I have one kid who is sort of mathy, one who is less so. It worked for both of them. 

[stripe]

I am using Jacobs with MEP, and I like it. I bought the whole algebra set from another mom a few years ago, so I’ve got the tests and teacher’s manual (old one, not new edition), but I have no idea where I put them. I think he explains things well, and for many things, reviews a concept the kid either already understands or needs to (like fractions using numbers), and then extends that to variables. I agree with Farrar about the appeal of the book. He also has interesting applications, which show how Algebra relates to real life phenomena. They also have a nice tone of showing how things work, with a humorous wink. I’ve got a bunch of other old and new Algebra books that I have looked at.

One of my kids took Algebra in the public school where they kicked off the year with simplification of really hideous fractions. This was mostly material from Holt. It was probably the hardest thing for my child in the whole year, just because it was purely detail oriented and easy to miss something. (I found nothing at ALL like it in MEP. It just didn’t exist!) While I don’t doubt the skill is useful, no one ever really simplifies those types of things, so it felt like a mean-spirited activity. So just because something is hard doesn’t honestly mean that it provides that much benefit, in my opinion. 

I am almost positive I used Jacobs Algebra in high school as part of an honors math program. I certainly used his Geometry book. Just to clarify, I didn’t attend HS in the 1960s. The books were ancient and falling apart at the time.

Edited May 6, 2021 by stripe

[Lori D.]

4 hours ago, CHSgirl said:

Thank you so much for the detailed recommendations. I think DS is capable of AoPS, but she doesn’t love math, so I don’t know that I want to do that to her. Personally, I’d love to take AoPS algebra! 
 

I wanted to ask about Jacobs. I saw a review that Maria Miller from Math Mammoth wrote, which said that Jacobs doesn’t go as in depth as Foerster’s. did you find that to be true? And would you say your child “mathy”? 

DS#1 is very math-minded.

We only did Jacobs for Algebra 1 so I can't compare with Foerster Algebra 1 about depth. The Foerster Algebra 2 & Trig text that we did was quite meaty and lots of problem-solving that was Engineering-based. DS#1 enjoyed it, but he would probably say that he enjoyed the presentation -- the humor and real-world examples -- of Jacobs Algebra 1 a bit more than the very straight-forward presentation of Foerster Algebra 2 & Trig.

Jacobs Algebra & Geometry (2nd ed.) are about the only things either DS specifically requested that I keep for them beyond high school, so that certainly is a "2 thumbs up" from a student. 😉 

I found Jacobs Algebra 1 to be thorough and meaty enough. Jacobs is incremental, with an optional challenger problem for each lesson, and real-life applications and examples for each lesson that are very helpful for making "math connections". Some people have said they found it "too wordy"?? I think it's because it has short real-life connections, and is not just presenting the formula or equation steps "du jour" like some programs.

Any of the "usual suspects" for high school math are fine. I think it's more important to match up with a presentation that clicks well for the student. For some students, any program will work fine. Other students have a much narrower window of what will work well vs. what will be more of a struggle.

Check out the sample pages for Jacobs here, and look at the Cathy Duffy review of the new Master books edition of Jacobs.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Lori D.

[Farrar]

No one presents the sheer beauty of math the way Harold Jacobs does. Now, whether that will spark a love of it or lead to a kid rolling their eyes because they'd rather just do the problems and not think about the connections to the world and or whatever... that's individual. And whether the funky brain teaser like problems to get you to discover something will resonate for a kid or whether they'd rather be truly stumped by a word problem in Dolciani or a super difficult problem in AoPS is also going to be pretty individual. 

The other thing... Jacobs was the program I was able to most effectively TEACH. So consider that as well. The right program is that one that you can effectively present and your kids can effectively learn from.

[blue plaid]

I think Jacobs is lovely and gentle. I am using it with my youngest, and four chapters in it seems to be a great fit for him and I am happy with it.  However, I tried it with my older two who pick up math a lot easier, and for them it was not a good fit.  I believe Jacobs uses a little bit of a "guided discovery" approach.  So my kids who could see what he was leading them to discover from the get-go soon found it tedious and boring.  For them we landed on Prentice Hall Algebra 1 by Smith et al. 

[Kathy in Richmond]

I used Jacobs algebra with both of my extremely mathy kids.  They were on the young side when they hit algebra & appreciated his conversational tone and sense of humor. As a mathematician, I appreciated his very transparent love of math and ability to present deep conceptual knowledge. Yes, many people say he's wordy, but I found that those wordy parts were him explaining the "whys" and not just the "hows" of math, putting ideas into historical context, and giving some interesting applications.

We also used his geometry text (2nd edition) which I love even more. His breadth of topics there was fantastic for advanced and interested students (concurrence theorems and non-Euclidean geometries come to mind). He proves everything carefully with plenty of good diagrams. I had visual leaning students, so this helped.

I did add word problems to his algebra text. I'm a big fan of the old Dolciani texts for word problems that really make kids think and organize their thoughts.

One last thought...His algebra text has a problem set IV for each section that an 'extra for experts' sort of topic. He extends the topic with sometimes quite challenging work. If you have an advanced kid, you would want to look at these.

After Jacobs algebra and geometry, my kids moved on to Dolciani algebra 2 and lots of AoPS classes/texts.

[Not_a_Number]

7 hours ago, blue plaid said:

So my kids who could see what he was leading them to discover from the get-go soon found it tedious and boring. 

Can you give me an example of what he was leading them to discover that they found boring? I'm mostly interested from the perspective of tutoring/teaching, because I like guided discovery, but I do find that I need to aim it right. 

[Farrar]

50 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Can you give me an example of what he was leading them to discover that they found boring? I'm mostly interested from the perspective of tutoring/teaching, because I like guided discovery, but I do find that I need to aim it right. 

Have you ever seen any of his textbooks or the teacher guides that go with them? I think part of it is that he just has really well-constructed problem sets. I find that a lot of the best programs have that. Beast Academy is great at that - at taking a kid from the ones that make them feel confident into problems that are crazy hard for them, but by the time they get there, they have the confidence to try and often succeed. Jacobs isn't that amazing at it, but they're nicely set up. But the other piece is that he introduces each section with anecdotes and activities that encourage kids to see connections and try things out to help them see the concepts. It's been a few years since I taught it, but I'd say you can't really appreciate it without the textbook and teacher guide. I wish someone would put the old transparencies online somewhere. I think those would also be useful for this sort of thing.

[Not_a_Number]

55 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Have you ever seen any of his textbooks or the teacher guides that go with them?

I think I have the non-textbooky one, I forget what it's called, argh. Oh! Right, it's "Math: a Human Endeavor." We haven't used it, but it sounded appealing, so I bought it for kicks. I don't know if I'll actually use it or just hand to DD8 to read if she think it's fun 🙂 . 

But I haven't seen any of the actual textbooks. I've heard good things about them, though, and I always respect work by people who have a true passion for both their subjects and teaching. And his textbooks do sound like that to me. 

 

55 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I think part of it is that he just has really well-constructed problem sets. I find that a lot of the best programs have that. Beast Academy is great at that - at taking a kid from the ones that make them feel confident into problems that are crazy hard for them, but by the time they get there, they have the confidence to try and often succeed. Jacobs isn't that amazing at it, but they're nicely set up.

My experience with BA is decidedly mixed, personally...  I tend to think they don't have enough scaffolding for some things. But I do know what you mean about what they mean to do there. 

 

55 minutes ago, Farrar said:

But the other piece is that he introduces each section with anecdotes and activities that encourage kids to see connections and try things out to help them see the concepts. It's been a few years since I taught it, but I'd say you can't really appreciate it without the textbook and teacher guide. I wish someone would put the old transparencies online somewhere. I think those would also be useful for this sort of thing.

Ah, that sounds like a good idea, and it's probably appealing for lots of kids. 

[EKS]

I recommend Jacobs for Algebra 1.  There are solutions for all problems available.

That said, it is really, really good to keep up with your student in math so that you can be the human in the room when they have questions (and if you can actually teach the lessons, even better).

[Clear Creek]

On 5/6/2021 at 6:39 AM, skctgbrlis said:

I love CLE’s new Algebra text. Together with the solutions manual, that’s all we’ve needed this year for very solid algebra instruction. 

This is what I would recommend as well. I have a small collection of algebra textbooks, and this one is by far my favorite. My youngest used it last year. Each lesson is presented well in the textbook and the solutions manual contains every single problem worked out step-by-step.

I know that Jacobs is very popular, but having used it with my oldest, I would not use it again unless I had a student that needed a slower pace. The teaching is good in Jacobs, but the S&S is quite behind what is covered in CLE algebra 1. My oldest used Jacobs and did quite well, and followed it with Unlock Math geometry. She wanted to continue with Unlock for algebra 2, but when we looked at the S&S she was disappointed to realize that she would need to use their algebra 1 for several months to cover all of the topics that she hadn't covered in Jacobs before she could start their algebra 2. She ended up using Teaching Textbooks instead for algebra 2 and precalculus - both of which are known to be behind in the typical S&S, and people aren't kidding...it really is. But that is where Jacobs left her. After using those two courses, she easily tested out of college algebra, which was fine for her major (computer science) since the only math she needed beyond that was statistics. My youngest is going into a science field, though, and will need multiple college math courses, so I didn't want to start him off behind as well. Looking at the S&S for TT algebra 2, he would spend the first four-ish months on concepts he covered in algebra 1. On the other hand, he places solidly into Unlock Math algebra 2 - CLE algebra 1 covered all of the topics in Unlock Math algebra 1, unlike Jacobs algebra. On a related note, the CLE course also covered all of the math that was in his physical science textbook this year, lol, which made that course pretty simple.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Clear Creek

[stripe]

Eh, my kid who took honors algebra in the local public school only did factoring for about the last two weeks of school. 

[Lori D.]

8 hours ago, Clear Creek said:

...The teaching is good in Jacobs, but the S&S is quite behind what is covered in CLE algebra 1. My oldest used Jacobs and did quite well, and followed it with Unlock Math geometry. She wanted to continue with Unlock for algebra 2, but when we looked at the S&S she was disappointed to realize that she would need to use their algebra 1 for several months to cover all of the topics that she hadn't covered in Jacobs before she could start their algebra 2...
... My youngest is going into a science field... and will need multiple college math courses, so I didn't want to start him off behind as well. Looking at the S&S for TT algebra 2, he would spend the first four-ish months on concepts he covered in algebra 1. On the other hand, he places solidly into Unlock Math algebra 2 - CLE algebra 1 covered all of the topics in Unlock Math algebra 1, unlike Jacobs algebra. On a related note, the CLE course also covered all of the math that was in his physical science textbook this year, lol, which made that course pretty simple.

Always interesting to see the experiences of others, and hear about other programs and how they work. That's great to hear that the new edition of CLE and Unlock Math worked so well for your family. 😄 

Often, it is a case of different programs having a somewhat different scope & sequence, or that the presentation is different enough that jumping from one program to a different program is difficult for a student, or requires review.

Your experience with Jacobs being slow and not enough topics for moving on to a different program for the higher Algebra levels was *not* our experience. DS#1 went seamless from Jacobs Algebra 1 into Foerster Algebra 2 & Trig, a program which trends toward the more rigorous end of the spectrum of texts due to the large amount of engineering-based problem-solving included. And, in our case, Jacobs absolutely built a strong foundation for future STEM degree, as DS#1 is currently 1 semester away from completing a BS in Mechanical Engineering with an extremely high GPA, and he would say that Jacobs (and Foerster) did a great job in prepping him for this math-heavy degree program. 😄 

As a side note: I've also seen people on these boards share that their mathy students used and excelled with Math-U-See (which is the *lightest* math program out there that I've seen), and go into Engineering fields. And because MUS worked so well for them and gave them such a solid foundation in conceptual math that these students were tutoring fellow college students through the various levels of Calculus. Because every student is different, and every Math program out there is different, the moral of the story is: YMMV. 😉 
 

8 hours ago, Clear Creek said:

...She ended up using Teaching Textbooks instead for algebra 2 and precalculus - both of which are known to be behind in the typical S&S, and people aren't kidding...it really is...

From what I have read, this was esp. true of the original edition of Teaching Textbooks. I understand that TT revised several years ago to somewhat address this issue, so that apparently there is less of a gap in the scope and sequence. BUT, no personal experience with TT to be able to verify that...

[Not_a_Number]

29 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Your experience with Jacobs being slow and not enough topics for moving on to a different program for the higher Algebra levels was *not* our experience. DS#1 went seamless from Jacobs Algebra 1 into Foerster Algebra 2 & Trig, a program which trends toward the more rigorous end of the spectrum of texts due to the large amount of engineering-based problem-solving included. And, in our case, Jacobs absolutely built a strong foundation for future STEM degree, as DS#1 is currently 1 semester away from completing a BS in Mechanical Engineering with an extremely high GPA, and he would say that Jacobs (and Foerster) did a great job in prepping him for this math-heavy degree program. 😄 

As a side note: I've also seen people on these boards share that their mathy students used and excelled with Math-U-See (which is the *lightest* math program out there that I've seen), and go into Engineering fields. And because MUS worked so well for them and gave them such a solid foundation in conceptual math that these students were tutoring fellow college students through the various levels of Calculus. Because every student is different, and every Math program out there is different, the moral of the story is: YMMV. 😉 

I think this is one of those funny things: programs don't contain a finite set of ideas, and it's possible to get very different things from the same program. It depends a lot on whether a kid has earlier gaps, and how good they are at generalizing, and their desire to generalize, and their confidence... it depends on lots of stuff. 

Honestly, this is why I really recommend having someone who can tell how a student is doing monitoring progress. With most programs, it's genuinely hard to tell how much a kid is absorbing without some probing interactions. 

[CAtoVA]

I used CLE Algebra 1 for my DS because we had used Saxon Pre-Algebra and he needed the spiral approach. It was a very solid and easy to follow/teach curriculum for me.

With one of my DDs (who is now taking Algebra 1 in 7th grade) we are using a variety of materials. I really like the Lial text Introductory Algebra. I have the student textbook which has answers in the back for 1/2 the problems and then I purchased a solutions text that has worked out solutions to problems. You could also purchase a TE for not that much money. I also use a basic HS type textbook Algebra Concepts and Skills (student and TE). Lastly, I have Algebra: A Fresh Approach which has an excellent section on a variety of word problems. All of these books I purchased used (for not that much money) on Ebay, Bookfinder and/or homeschool classifieds.

Both of these kids used Singapore Primary Standards K through 3rd grade (DS) and K through 5th grade (DD ). DD also used Beast Academy as a supplement.

[chiguirre]

On 5/6/2021 at 6:35 AM, CHSgirl said:

Thank you so much for the detailed recommendations. I think DS is capable of AoPS, but she doesn’t love math, so I don’t know that I want to do that to her. Personally, I’d love to take AoPS algebra! 
 

Not all AOPS classes are the same. Dd took the Well Trained Mind Academy's Algebra I and II classes and they were challenging but not crazy-making for a mathy but not Math Olympics level student. You don't need to sign up for the class, but look at their syllabus and how they divide up the material so it's not overwhelming. The major advantage AOPS offers to homeschoolers is the extremely detailed solution manual, the online videos and Alcumus. You just need to tone down the emphasis on the competition math problems and take it slower than AOPS' own online classes would to make it doable.

[EKS]

On 5/7/2021 at 8:48 AM, Clear Creek said:

The teaching is good in Jacobs, but the S&S is quite behind what is covered in CLE algebra 1.

This astounds me.

Our experience was that Jacobs provided a rock solid foundation for the next level, that it went beyond where most Algebra 1 textbooks these days end, and most importantly, that it imparted a way of thinking about math that has served my (older) son well in the fifteen years since we first opened the book.  

Jacobs does start slow, probably because a course called "prealgebra" didn't exist at the time it was written.  It also goes farther than standard textbooks do now, probably because most kids jumped from Algebra 2 directly into calculus back then.  And its problems are designed to be done without a calculator of any sort, because again, when it was written, most people didn't have them.  Because of this, the numbers don't get in the way of the concepts--which is a problem I see a lot with more modern programs.

Edited May 8, 2021 by EKS

[stripe]

I observed in AOPS Intro to Algebra book, they seem to just start off solving equations. There is no preliminary stage of manipulating expressions in any fashion, and I don’t see anything that looks like it in the Pre-Algebra book. I don’t know for sure how other books handle this, but it’s an interesting decision to just make that jump. (Most of their equations aren’t necessarily any harder than what anyone else shows. But if you like really shall we say...juicy fractions, the Math 6 book is your friend for pre-algebra. I used it for a while but eventually my son got really....tired of dealing with these and I decided he’d had enough. )

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by stripe

[Not_a_Number]

15 minutes ago, stripe said:

I observed in AOPS Intro to Algebra book, they seem to just start off solving equations. There is no preliminary stage of manipulating expressions in any fashion, and I don’t see anything that looks like it in the Pre-Algebra book. I don’t know for sure how other books handle this, but it’s an interesting decision to just make that jump. (Most of their equations aren’t necessarily any harder than what anyone else shows. But if you like really shall we say...juicy fractions, the Math 6 book is your friend for pre-algebra. I used it for a while but eventually my son got really....tired of dealing with these and I decided he’d had enough. )

I've been teaching AoPS prealgebra and I'm also very surprised by this. They just start off working with variables without really talking about what variables are or now they work or how you might reason about them. 

As a result, I'd say only 10% of the kids in my classes follow the variable manipulations 😕 . When I ad-lib, I try to insert explanations, but I only have finite time and I can't spend lots of time on asides about variables... 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Farrar]

My kids went into Pre-Algebra and Algebra I having learned about variables mostly from doing Hands on Equations and Dragonbox beforehand. During both courses, I routinely pulled out the HoE materials or literally DREW a picture of the Dragonbox screen with the blocks with what they were doing to remind them that they understood how manipulating the variables should work. But I assume other kids don't necessarily have that experience.

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, Farrar said:

My kids went into Pre-Algebra and Algebra I having learned about variables mostly from doing Hands on Equations and Dragonbox beforehand. During both courses, I routinely pulled out the HoE materials or literally DREW a picture of the Dragonbox screen with the blocks with what they were doing to remind them that they understood how manipulating the variables should work. But I assume other kids don't necessarily have that experience.

In my experience, if you start off variables without any introduction, you lose almost everyone, and that's with a sample of AoPS kids -- kids who aren't struggling with math in general. 

I spend a lot of time working with pre-variables with my own kids and I think it's a really good idea, but I assume most kids don't have that experience. And then they get lost 😕 . 

[chiguirre]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

In my experience, if you start off variables without any introduction, you lose almost everyone, and that's with a sample of AoPS kids -- kids who aren't struggling with math in general. 

I spend a lot of time working with pre-variables with my own kids and I think it's a really good idea, but I assume most kids don't have that experience. And then they get lost 😕 . 

We used Singapore Math for elementary. They do introduce variables along the way so dd already had seen them before we started AOPS. Doesn't Beast Academy do this? It came out after we were done with SM.

[Not_a_Number]

8 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

We used Singapore Math for elementary. They do introduce variables along the way so dd already had seen them before we started AOPS. Doesn't Beast Academy do this? It came out after we were done with SM.

Yes... Beast Academy introduces them in some sense. Like, kids do variable manipulations in Beast Academy. But I'm really not convinced that's enough to actually form a mental model of a variable. You can see something over and over again and not really GET IT quite easily. 

[theelfqueen]

We used Arbor's 3 book series in 6th and 7th and they were are great take. They are based on Jacob's. The books are very easy to work through and the teachers guides are accessible and they are affordable. My kid had just come out of public school where they didn't really give him the reign he needed math-wise and he enjoyed them. 

http://arborcenterforteaching.org/arbor-algebra-textbook

We went on  from there to Jacob's Geometry 2nd Edition which has a great teachers guide, too.

We did some Algebra 2 expansion/review after then took some time on stats and probability (and endless coding) before going on to PreCalc. Wavered a little there but now he's doing a focused Trig book and super happy .

Edited May 8, 2021 by theelfqueen

[Reefgazer]

Saxon has teacher videos, teacher manual, and publisher's exams with answer key. My DD transitioned to Saxon math from public school curriculum in middle school and the transition went smoothly.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Reefgazer

[Farrar]

We also tried the Arbor books, and I really liked them, but they were a terrible fit for my kid I tried them with. Here's what I say... they require a LOT of writing. If your kid isn't a pretty confident, comfortable writer, they're probably not a good fit. Of course, you could do the writing parts orally, but my kid couldn't really do oral narration very well, so that was a no go for us.

[theelfqueen]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

We also tried the Arbor books, and I really liked them, but they were a terrible fit for my kid I tried them with. Here's what I say... they require a LOT of writing. If your kid isn't a pretty confident, comfortable writer, they're probably not a good fit. Of course, you could do the writing parts orally, but my kid couldn't really do oral narration very well, so that was a no go for us.

Whereas my youngest really appreciated the "Note to Self" assignments and they helped him to go on to take good notes in other math classes! He's really good at making sure he has definitions down and important ideas in his notes now.... 100% attribute that to Arbor. 

It's always wild to me how different curricula are - as a former history teacher I was like "Algebra is Algebra, seriously how different can curricula be from each other" Then middle child did great with Saxon - drill and kill is perfect for that kid! And I took one look at it for Youngest and knew it would kill him on the spot lol I am so thankful to the folks here (including you) who helped me to look further afield! 

Edited May 9, 2021 by theelfqueen