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Postmenopausal Bleeding a month after Covid vaccine?


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Is this a possibility?  Started bleeding after TeA last week and I am spotting again today. Have an appointment Thursday with Gyn to check it out.  But just wondered if there is any connection?   I havent had a period in 5 years or more. 

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It’s really unlikely to be related. It’s good to see a doctor. Most of the time it’s nothing but it’s a good idea to get checked right away just in case.

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I have seen reports of that along with menstrual irregularities in women who are still cycling. I hesitate to say I’ve seen it because I’m not interested in citing sources. So this is just a “yeah I’ve heard of that” with no further proof being offered. 
 

Personally I had mid cycle spotting after my second Moderna and that was very unusual for me. 

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There has been a lot of discussion of this on twitter.  Women both experiencing much heavier periods than usual, and post menopausal women having unexpected periods.  I think it is good to see a doctor, but I would not rule out that it is vaccine related.

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I read about it in a UK news story.  I don't recall the source, though.  What I read said there were reports of a wide variety of related issues.

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Maybe...or you just have post-menopausal bleeding.  I did in earlier this year and had a pelvic U/S.  Tried a biopsy in the doctor's office that didn't work, so I'm getting a sedated biopsy next week.  My hadn't had a period in 1.5 years.  Good you are getting it checked!

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Posted (edited)

Dr Mobeen Syed has an episode on this ?last week? explaining the mechanism(s) by which vaccines can induce menstrual changes.  I can't recall much about what he said, but you might find it interesting.  (It was basic immunology and reproductive science, nothing pathologic that I recall, but I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention.) 

Edited by Halftime Hope
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2 hours ago, RootAnn said:

Could be related. Most of what I've read is in the first 2 weeks after the shot, though.

This.

2 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

I have seen reports of that along with menstrual irregularities in women who are still cycling. I hesitate to say I’ve seen it because I’m not interested in citing sources. So this is just a “yeah I’ve heard of that” with no further proof being offered. 
 

Personally I had mid cycle spotting after my second Moderna and that was very unusual for me. 

And the bolded.

1 hour ago, Caraway said:

There has been a lot of discussion of this on twitter.  Women both experiencing much heavier periods than usual, and post menopausal women having unexpected periods.  I think it is good to see a doctor, but I would not rule out that it is vaccine related.

Also the bolded.

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I had post menopausal bleeding between moderna doses. Now I get to have an endometrial biopsy done. 

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I had post menopausal bleeding for a week that started 2 weeks after my 2nd Pfizer dose. I am having it checked out by on/gyn but have read a lot online that this could be vaccination related.  Just had a biopsy done just in case something else. 

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anecdotal, I know, my my 20 something daughter did not get the vaccine, but she didn't know that her desk-mate at work did, and the day she went back to work with him there, she became sick. She started her period 3 days after contact with him/getting sick and she is on contraception that keeps her from having a period.  She read that women who are getting the vaccine are having cycle problems and was concerned. 

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1 hour ago, Hen said:

anecdotal, I know, my my 20 something daughter did not get the vaccine, but she didn't know that her desk-mate at work did, and the day she went back to work with him there, she became sick. She started her period 3 days after contact with him/getting sick and she is on contraception that keeps her from having a period.  She read that women who are getting the vaccine are having cycle problems and was concerned. 

I read this several times trying to understand. Are you saying you think her getting sick and getting her period was somehow caused by her coworker getting a vaccine? Getting sick frequently messes with the menstrual cycle, so that seems like a possible explanation for the cycle disruption.

I hope your dd is feeling better now. 

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2 hours ago, Hen said:

anecdotal, I know, my my 20 something daughter did not get the vaccine, but she didn't know that her desk-mate at work did, and the day she went back to work with him there, she became sick. She started her period 3 days after contact with him/getting sick and she is on contraception that keeps her from having a period.  She read that women who are getting the vaccine are having cycle problems and was concerned. 

I must be missing something.  Generally, there's at least a couple of days incubation period before getting sick, so it doesn't make sense to me to blame the co-worker that she felt sick the first day they worked together.  Its likely she was exposed to something a few days before returning to work. 

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I had this reaction to actual covid, so it does not surprise me one tiny bit to hear more and more reports of it happening after the vaccine. I didn't get it checked out, on the grounds that t will sort itself out eventually.  But it reenforces my extreme bafflement (possibly not a word?) that anyone would get the vaccine while pregnant. 

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21 minutes ago, plansrme said:

But it reenforces my extreme bafflement (possibly not a word?) that anyone would get the vaccine while pregnant. 

I understand why someone would, given the large increase in risk of death from Covid in pregnancy (22X increases risk) and the increased incidence in negative outcomes for both mother and baby, preterm birth, etc. On the other hand, a study of 90,000 pregnant women in the US who got the Pfizer or Moderna Covid vaccines, there were no negative effects found. This short BBC report strikes a nice balance of understanding the concern pregnant women might feel about the vaccine while presenting the facts: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/health-57013743

 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Hen said:

anecdotal, I know, my my 20 something daughter did not get the vaccine, but she didn't know that her desk-mate at work did, and the day she went back to work with him there, she became sick. She started her period 3 days after contact with him/getting sick and she is on contraception that keeps her from having a period.  She read that women who are getting the vaccine are having cycle problems and was concerned. 

When I was using birth control not having a period was my # 1 criteria.  I used  3 different methods over the decade and half that I was using it.  They all worked but I still had bleeding occasionally on all of them.  Twice with depo the doc moved my shot up a week earlier to accommodate it.  With the IUD I’d have one light period every 6 months or so.  My doctors always said break through bleeding was totally normal and common. None of them block periods 100%, 100% of the time in 100% of people.  

Edited by HeartString
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12 hours ago, Hen said:

anecdotal, I know, my my 20 something daughter did not get the vaccine, but she didn't know that her desk-mate at work did, and the day she went back to work with him there, she became sick. She started her period 3 days after contact with him/getting sick and she is on contraception that keeps her from having a period.  She read that women who are getting the vaccine are having cycle problems and was concerned. 

No. Just no. 

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It’s possible that there is a connection. I’ve heard of others who have experienced this. My friend IRL has had painful cycles since her shot. Lots of painful abdominal cramping which is unusual for her. You should definitely mention it to your doctor, so he can include it in his notes. There has been a lot of discussion on social media about it. So much so that a professor at the University of Illinois who also experienced menstrual issues is collecting information. She has an online survey. I can find the link if interested. You can also look on VAERS and search bleeding. 

I have also heard that unvax’d who are close to vaxd have had symptoms due to transmission via secretions, so it’s not unheard of @Hen

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I think someone included the link earlier, but since the endometrium it’s part of the immune system, it makes sense that an immune system flare can cause some bleeding. That can happen whether it’s due to a vaccine or an illness. For someone premenopausal, I wouldn’t think much of it unless it continued in subsequent months. Postmenopausal, I might look into it unless it stopped quickly and never came back.

7 minutes ago, Mona said:

I have also heard that unvax’d who are close to vaxd have had symptoms due to transmission via secretions

There’s no mechanism for this. How would it happen? Why would they ascribe it to something “somehow” being transmitted from a vaccinated person to them, rather than to any one of the myriad other common reasons for this to happen?

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https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/the-covid-19-vaccines-irregular-periods-and-spike-protein-shedding

Some quotes:

-----

"Right now, there’s no scientific evidence that suggests COVID-19 vaccines are making periods irregular. 

“Some women have reported on social media that the period after a COVID-19 vaccine was different, or changed in some way from what they usually expect,” says OB-GYN Jennifer Griffin Miller, MD, MPH. “This was not identified in the clinical trials of the vaccines. There’s also no biological mechanism, based on how the vaccines work, that would explain these occurrences.”

-----

"Can “vaccine shedding” cause side effects in unvaccinated people?

No. There have been rumors of “vaccine shedding” causing side effects to people who have not been vaccinated. The idea is that someone who has been vaccinated is shedding spike protein to those around them who have not been vaccinated. 

“We have no data to indicate that contact with somebody who has been vaccinated affects menstrual cycles,” says infectious diseases expert James Lawler, MD, MPH.

The vaccines can’t give you COVID-19. Vaccines do not contain SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. And the spike protein itself can’t shed.

“Spike protein is primarily made locally in muscle where the vaccine is administered and may possibly be seen in low levels in the blood," says Dr. Lawler. "But it should not be shed in significant quantity in respiratory or other secretions.”

If someone has tested positive for COVID-19, though, they are shedding virus, including the spike protein, and contagious. “We know that people with COVID-19 shed large amounts of virus from respiratory secretions,” says Dr. Lawler.

Shedding can’t happen without a live vaccine. The mRNA vaccines – Pfizer and Moderna – are not live vaccines and do not replicate. The Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca vaccines are considered live vaccines because they both contain adenovirus. (Again, they do NOT contain the coronavirus.) But the adenovirus in both the Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca vaccines can’t replicate, so there’s no way they can shed. Learn more about how adenovirus vaccines work."

-----

Fyi, the article is longer and has more info and links to information.

 

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13 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I find the idea that you can "catch" irregular periods from vaccinated people amazing and bewildering. There's no plausible mechanism for this.

I also find it bewildering to be more concerned about the possibility that spike proteins might somehow float through the air from a vaccinated person than about actual SARS-CoV2 particles (which are covered in spike proteins in ADDITION to carrying the virus that causes Covid19) that absolutely DO float through the air in large quantities and have the potential to cause all kinds of mayhem and harm to those who breathe them in. 

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, KSera said:

I also find it bewildering to be more concerned about the possibility that spike proteins might somehow float through the air from a vaccinated person than about actual SARS-CoV2 particles (which are covered in spike proteins in ADDITION to carrying the virus that causes Covid19) that absolutely DO float through the air in large quantities and have the potential to cause all kinds of mayhem and harm to those who breathe them in. 

Exactly. 

Perhaps we need to change our public health messaging to the following: 

"Beware of COVID-19! It carries the vaccine proteins on it!!" 

Edited by Not_a_Number
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9 minutes ago, Stacia said:

The article he links in his first post has various sources and addresses the misinformation and conspiracy theories.

A good quote from the article he links:

”The process occurs "in much the same manner that you make insulin or hemoglobin or myosin or any of the hundreds and hundreds of proteins that your body makes everyday," Offit said. 

"If I come and stand next to someone, I’m not going to catch their insulin," he said. "They’re not going to transfer insulin from them to me. That’s the level of thinking."

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11 minutes ago, Stacia said:

 

 

 

Fyi, Eric Feigl-Deng's credentials and background: https://fas.org/expert/eric-feigl-ding/

The article he links in his first post has various sources and addresses the misinformation and conspiracy theories.

I had the impression that the irregular menstruation were actually decently documented. I know that they haven't actually measured that outcome in trials, but I've seen enough people pipe up about it on here that I tend to assume it's a real effect. 

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1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

I had the impression that the irregular menstruation were actually decently documented. I know that they haven't actually measured that outcome in trials, but I've seen enough people pipe up about it on here that I tend to assume it's a real effect. 

That’s what I was going to say about this article and some others that I’ve read in a dress this vaccine shedding thing. Whether menstruation can be affected by the vaccine and whether the vaccine can shed to other people are two entirely, entirely different things. While I agree they probably don’t have any data yet to indicate the vaccines actually are causing any menstrual changes, I think that’s just because it hasn’t been studied enough yet. I’d guess it’s infrequent (and not dangerous), but there is a plausible explanation for why an immune response can affect someone’s cycle. There is no plausible explanation for how their immune response could affect someone else’s cycle 🤦‍♀️).

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4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I had the impression that the irregular menstruation were actually decently documented. I know that they haven't actually measured that outcome in trials, but I've seen enough people pipe up about it on here that I tend to assume it's a real effect. 

From that first article I linked (bolding is mine):

"Abnormal periods will also happen by chance after people receive the COVID-19 vaccine. That doesn’t necessarily mean the vaccine caused the abnormal period. They could be related, but it’s too soon to say for sure.

“It’s not uncommon for women to experience an atypical cycle over the course of a year,” says Dr. Griffin-Miller. “When millions of menstruating women are receiving the vaccine, the timing could certainly be coincidence.”

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Stacia said:

From that first article I linked (bolding is mine):

"Abnormal periods will also happen by chance after people receive the COVID-19 vaccine. That doesn’t necessarily mean the vaccine caused the abnormal period. They could be related, but it’s too soon to say for sure.

“It’s not uncommon for women to experience an atypical cycle over the course of a year,” says Dr. Griffin-Miller. “When millions of menstruating women are receiving the vaccine, the timing could certainly be coincidence.”

Yes, that's what they generally say with stuff like that. However, I'll say the following about my personal data collection on this forum.

1) First of all, no one actually expected this to happen. So people aren't saying it because of confirmation bias. 

2) Secondly, I'm sampling a consistent group of frequent posters, not random people who signed on to a website. So there isn't a serious selection bias. 

3) Thirdly, it's quite a large effect from what I've seen. 

I'm going to guess they'll find this effect in controlled studies as well even though they haven't yet. I am currently of the cautious opinion that it's a real effect. 

Edited by Not_a_Number
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30 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yes, that's what they generally say with stuff like that. However, I'll say the following about my personal data collection on this forum.

1) First of all, no one actually expected this to happen. So people aren't saying it because of confirmation bias. 

2) Secondly, I'm sampling a consistent group of frequent posters, not random people who signed on to a website. So there isn't a serious selection bias. 

3) Thirdly, it's quite a large effect from what I've seen. 

I'm going to guess they'll find this effect in controlled studies as well even though they haven't yet. I am currently of the cautious opinion that it's a real effect. 

Possibly. I think scientists just don't know yet.

The sample size here is pretty small compared to millions of women worldwide who have gotten the vaccine. And, even here, with mostly females posting in the vaccine thread, it seems more have not had abnormal bleeding than have.

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4 hours ago, plansrme said:

But it reenforces my extreme bafflement (possibly not a word?) that anyone would get the vaccine while pregnant. 

 

3 hours ago, KSera said:

I understand why someone would, given the large increase in risk of death from Covid in pregnancy (22X increases risk) and the increased incidence in negative outcomes for both mother and baby, preterm birth, etc. On the other hand, a study of 90,000 pregnant women in the US who got the Pfizer or Moderna Covid vaccines, there were no negative effects found. This short BBC report strikes a nice balance of understanding the concern pregnant women might feel about the vaccine while presenting the facts: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/health-57013743

From The Wall Street Journal:

Covid-19 Vaccinations of Pregnant Mothers Also Protect Newborns, Studies Suggest

One study also found antibodies in the breast milk of vaccinated mothers

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-vaccinations-of-pregnant-mothers-also-protect-newborns-studies-suggest-11617183001

"Pregnant women who get the coronavirus vaccine pass their antibodies on to their newborns, recent studies suggest, a promising sign that babies can acquire from their mothers some protection against Covid-19.

At least three studies have found that women who received either the Pfizer Inc. - BioNTech SE vaccine or the Moderna Inc. shots during pregnancy had coronavirus antibodies in their umbilical-cord blood. That indicates the women’s babies got the antibodies, too.

One of the studies also found antibodies in the breast milk of mothers who had received the vaccine during pregnancy.

The studies didn’t look specifically at the safety of vaccinations, though in one of them, pregnant women who were vaccinated didn’t report more side effects than those who weren’t pregnant.

Pregnant women are at higher risk of a severe case of Covid-19 and of preterm delivery if they are infected. The studies’ findings, though preliminary, suggest women could safely protect themselves and their newborns by getting vaccinated.

..."

There is more info in the article about these studies these statements are based on, as well as other ongoing studies right now.

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Like the loss of sense of smell and taste, there are numerous viruses that can affect menstrual cycles. This we learned a few years ago when battling a recurrent mono-like illness. 
 

I’m not discounting it as a side effect. However, with the huge number of people getting vaccinated, coincidental conditions are also getting a lot of notice. 

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The Covid Zoe symptom study app is getting some reports of menstrual irregularities  but doesn't have enough data yet to conclude on significance.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

I had the impression that the irregular menstruation were actually decently documented. I know that they haven't actually measured that outcome in trials, but I've seen enough people pipe up about it on here that I tend to assume it's a real effect. 

 

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

1) First of all, no one actually expected this to happen. So people aren't saying it because of confirmation bias.

Bolding is mine.

Maybe there was not initially (much) confirmation bias, but there certainly is more of it now. You yourself are saying you have confirmation bias at this point... ?

With knowledge that this was a once-in-a-lifetime virus, as well as knowledge that there was a global rush to produce a vaccine, I think people in general were/are being hypervigilant to *anything* that may be/seem/feel different for weeks after being vaccinated. Millions of people get flu vaccinations every year (and they are slightly different every time), but there is never this level of scrutiny of "I noticed these weird things" or "I heard of someone who had these weird effects", etc. So I would argue that there has been *some* confirmation bias all along because people are actively looking for *anything or any report* of a feeling or experience that may be different..., which is then often ascribed as a possible vaccine side-effect (whether true or false).

Eta: I would say you can see this in the big vaccination thread where many have expressed worry about the vaccine prior to getting it because they anticipate having side-effects of some sort.

Edited by Stacia
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56 minutes ago, Stacia said:

Possibly. I think scientists just don't know yet.

The sample size here is pretty small compared to millions of women worldwide who have gotten the vaccine. And, even here, with mostly females posting in the vaccine thread, it seems more have not had abnormal bleeding than have.

My personal opinion is that the data rises above the level of noise. I’ll run another poll at some point, but retrospective data is less good.

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11 minutes ago, Stacia said:

Maybe there was not initially (much) confirmation bias, but there certainly is more of it now. You yourself are saying you have confirmation bias at this point... ?

It’s not confirmation bias to make a conclusion.

 

11 minutes ago, Stacia said:

Bolding is mine.

Maybe there was not initially (much) confirmation bias, but there certainly is more of it now. You yourself are saying you have confirmation bias at this point... ?

With knowledge that this was a once-in-a-lifetime virus, as well as knowledge that there was a global rush to produce a vaccine, I think people in general were/are being hypervigilant to *anything* that may be/seem/feel different for weeks after being vaccinated. Millions of people get flu vaccinations every year (and they are slightly different every time), but there is never this level of scrutiny of "I noticed these weird things" or "I heard of someone who had these weird effects", etc. So I would argue that there has been *some* confirmation bias all along because people are actively looking for *anything or any report* of a feeling or experience that may be different..., which is then often ascribed as a possible vaccine side-effect (whether true or false)

 

As a probabilist, I’m very aware of the standard issues with gathering this kind of data. My personal opinion is that the data currently supports the cautious theory that it’s a real effect.

For what it’s worth, I had no expectation about period issues post-vaccine and was simply surprised at the mid-cycle bleeding — I’ve had that happen before but not often. I only connected it to the vaccine after hearing from other people.

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1 hour ago, Stacia said:

Possibly. I think scientists just don't know yet.

The sample size here is pretty small compared to millions of women worldwide who have gotten the vaccine. And, even here, with mostly females posting in the vaccine thread, it seems more have not had abnormal bleeding than have.

Also, as it turns out, we evaluate samples on ABSOLUTE SIZE, not as a fraction of the population.

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4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Also, as it turns out, we evaluate samples on ABSOLUTE SIZE, not as a fraction of the population.

I get that.

5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

As a probabilist, I’m very aware of the standard issues with gathering this kind of data. My personal opinion is that the data currently supports the cautious theory that it’s a real effect.

I agree as a cautious theory and at some point the science will either confirm or deny it. I am saying I think early confirmation bias in general is stronger with this vaccine vs. other ones.

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2 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Like the loss of sense of smell and taste, there are numerous viruses that can affect menstrual cycles. This we learned a few years ago when battling a recurrent mono-like illness. 
 

I’m not discounting it as a side effect. However, with the huge number of people getting vaccinated, coincidental conditions are also getting a lot of notice. 

I agree coincidental conditions are definitely getting noticed and I also feel like there seems to be confirmation bias with people who expressed a lot of worried for the vaccine possibly seem to have more, in a strange range, of side effects. that said, due to my personal experience and the fact that there is a very plausible mechanism for this one, I feel like this one is very possible.

Anecdote ahead (no quoting necessary 😉): I have never in my life had midcycle bleeding. Then last month I had it for a full week, and it wasn’t until I was nearing the end of that week and it struck me that I had had my vaccine the previous week and to wonder if there was any way it could be related. My assumption was that it couldn’t be, but after seeing that other people had noticed the same thing, that correlation was enough to make me decide to put off scheduling the doctor appointment I had been planning to schedule about it for another cycle in case it was actually a vaccine side effect and it never happened again. Fast forward four weeks, and I got my second Moderna. I realized then that the timing was going to be unfortunate as far as whether I got that symptom again or not, because I would be at the same point in my cycle. I did end up having it again, but it was much, much lighter and shorter than it was the previous cycle. Now I will be waiting one more cycle to be sure it’s gone next time. If it is, I’m going to feel pretty certain the shot explains it for me. If it’s not, I’ll be headed to the doctor. That doesn’t mean I think that means everyone who experiences this is experiencing it due to the shot, since it’s true that this isn’t an uncommon thing to happen to women. It’s exceedingly uncommon for me though, having never happened before. I realize that could still be a coincidence, though happening after both doses would be pretty weird.

still, as far as vaccine side effects go, this is a super mild one in my book, and I’d rather have this one than fever and chills and all that.

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7 hours ago, Mona said:

 

I have also heard that unvax’d who are close to vaxd have had symptoms due to transmission via secretions, so it’s not unheard of @Hen

Transmission of what?

5 hours ago, KSera said:

I also find it bewildering to be more concerned about the possibility that spike proteins might somehow float through the air from a vaccinated person than about actual SARS-CoV2 particles (which are covered in spike proteins in ADDITION to carrying the virus that causes Covid19) that absolutely DO float through the air in large quantities and have the potential to cause all kinds of mayhem and harm to those who breathe them in. 

I know. It is SO weird that the same people who think covid in the wild is no big deal are freaking out about "catching" Covid from a vaccinated person!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, KSera said:

I agree coincidental conditions are definitely getting noticed and I also feel like there seems to be confirmation bias with people who expressed a lot of worried for the vaccine possibly seem to have more, in a strange range, of side effects. that said, due to my personal experience and the fact that there is a very plausible mechanism for this one, I feel like this one is very possible.

Anecdote ahead (no quoting necessary 😉😞 I have never in my life had midcycle bleeding. Then last month I had it for a full week, and it wasn’t until I was nearing the end of that week and it struck me that I had had my vaccine the previous week and to wonder if there was any way it could be related. My assumption was that it couldn’t be, but after seeing that other people had noticed the same thing, that correlation was enough to make me decide to put off scheduling the doctor appointment I had been planning to schedule about it for another cycle in case it was actually a vaccine side effect and it never happened again. Fast forward four weeks, and I got my second Moderna. I realized then that the timing was going to be unfortunate as far as whether I got that symptom again or not, because I would be at the same point in my cycle. I did end up having it again, but it was much, much lighter and shorter than it was the previous cycle. Now I will be waiting one more cycle to be sure it’s gone next time. If it is, I’m going to feel pretty certain the shot explains it for me. If it’s not, I’ll be headed to the doctor. That doesn’t mean I think that means everyone who experiences this is experiencing it due to the shot, since it’s true that this isn’t an uncommon thing to happen to women. It’s exceedingly uncommon for me though, having never happened before. I realize that could still be a coincidence, though happening after both doses would be pretty weird.

still, as far as vaccine side effects go, this is a super mild one in my book, and I’d rather have this one than fever and chills and all that.

Yes, but for me, I have not had a period in 5 years.  No bleeding at all for 5 years. None.  And it was not quite 3 weeks after the shot.

Had a pap smear.  Doing a sonogram.  Doctor did not think it was related. Thinks it is probably nothing, bit doing tests to make sure.  

And I still feel like it was related. We will never know, but I am pretty confident all test will be negative and I won’t bleed again unless I have to have a booster.

Edited by TexasProud
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Any stress on the body can do this. Things like outpatient surgery are known to trigger bleeding, for example. As can illness, etc. If it is a one time thing, it fits with those kinds of events and is nothing to worry about. Getting your gall bladder out can trigger an early period, but it doesn't make you infertile or anything. Same idea with a vaccine response. 

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