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On 5/5/2021 at 2:43 PM, HomeAgain said:

Sometimes, it's easier to say, "I'm not here to teach you.  I'm here to help you learn."

Sometimes, the materials teach.  Sometimes a person teaches.  Sometimes, a person teaches themselves.  And all of those are valid ways to learn.

Another thing for kids to realize is that autonomy = freedom. The GOAL is for him to "out-grow" your abilities . . . to no longer need your teaching help . . . that's the POINT of education, no matter which venue it takes. You and he are a team working together toward this shared end goal - that he be a functioning, educated, self-motivated & responsible fully-living human. The faster he assumes that role (responsibly & respectfully), the faster you can treat him like an adult - in math (choose his own courses / set his own pace / join teams / etc.), in laundry (he never again need wait for Clean Special Shirt / may be able to organize clothes & personal systems according to his own preference), in literature (choose his own books / join group discussions . . . or not / analyze movies that mirror plot lines / focus on a particular time period), in science (do more experiments & less book work, focus on a specific area - biology, chemistry, zoology, technology) . . . really, the sky's the limit! This is the FUN part!

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3 minutes ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

The GOAL is for him to "out-grow" your abilities . . . to no longer need your teaching help . . . that's the POINT of education, no matter which venue it takes

I'm not sure I agree with that.. I think it's quite possible to have a very functional homeschool where the student benefits from the parent's expertise until they graduate. It really depends on how the homeschool is set up. 

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12 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm not sure I agree with that.. I think it's quite possible to have a very functional homeschool where the student benefits from the parent's expertise until they graduate. It really depends on how the homeschool is set up. 

Oh, I probably said it awkwardly . . . I definitely agree! I meant that they will "out-grow" my expertise in some areas sooner than others . . . for example, potty training used to require a LOT of help, but they definitely outgrew my "expertise" several years ago in that field. Managing their calendar is something that SEEMS easy, but they definitely still need my help with that - how to balance priorities, how (and when) to consider the needs of others in those decisions, etc. My teenagers have outgrown my academic expertise in some areas already (and we've out-sourced), but not others. (I always wanted them to have a better education that I did - so for me, it was a SUCCESS when they knew just as much math as I did, and passed me up. We celebrated.) My "life" expertise is available until the day I die. 😉 We wrap all of that up into "homeschool" here, though I realize that word is defined in many ways.

Homeschool motto: Many right answers.

Edited by Lucy the Valiant
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1 minute ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

Oh, I probably said it awkwardly . . . I definitely agree! I meant that they will "out-grow" my expertise in some areas sooner than others . . . for example, potty training used to require a LOT of help, but they definitely outgrew my "expertise" several years ago in that field. Managing their calendar is something that SEEMS easy, but they definitely still need my help with that - how to balance priorities, how (and when) to consider the needs of others in those decisions, etc. My teenagers have outgrown my academic expertise in some areas already (and we've out-sourced), but not others. My "life" expertise is available until the day I die. 😉 We wrap all of that up into "homeschool" here, though I realize that word is defined in many ways.

Homeschool motto: Many right answers.

Yeah, I'd agree with that! The point is that you're helping them become functional adults, whether by teaching or facilitating. And neither of those options is wrong 🙂 . 

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On 5/6/2021 at 8:35 AM, egao_gakari said:

Yes yes yes. On one of my worse days early on when homeschooling my stepkids I remember wailing to DH, "I've never met two such UNCURIOUS kids!" One of them has improved quite a bit since then, one hasn't. But even the one who has improved doesn't love learning. Gets satisfaction from good grades, and from crossing tasks off a list. But doesn't love learning.

 

On 5/6/2021 at 5:36 AM, cintinative said:

I recall reading a thread on here early on that addressed this false idea of all kids "loving to learn."  It can really create a sense of inadequacy in the mom if she thinks it is her fault her kids are not "rainbows and unicorns" passionate about learning.   

Love learning?

HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!  

I remember reading here or somewhere else this lovely idea that at the start of each school year, one should ask their beautiful children what they want to learn that year.  My kids' response?  <shrug>  

I'll trade love of learning for COMPLIANCE any day.  Fortunately my kids had compliance in spades.  

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2 hours ago, daijobu said:

I'll trade love of learning for COMPLIANCE any day.  Fortunately my kids had compliance in spades.  

What about... neither? 😛 My kids ARE, in fact, interested in learning specific things, I guess, but I wouldn't say they are blindly enthusiastic about most things I pick. We definitely don't have the "Oooh, yay, a math lesson!" thing happening here. 

And we don't have much compliance, either 😛 . 

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1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

What about... neither? 😛 My kids ARE, in fact, interested in learning specific things, I guess, but I wouldn't say they are blindly enthusiastic about most things I pick. We definitely don't have the "Oooh, yay, a math lesson!" thing happening here. 

And we don't have much compliance, either 😛 . 

Wait a minute. 😏

In the other thread you said...

Quote

My kids are both focused, so they both just basically work when I give them work.

and

Quote

They are also both engaged kids who LIKE their academics, so they are self-motivated for most of the day. I generally don't push things they aren't relatively self-motivated for -- like, both my kids like math and learning to handwrite, and they both like their Russian cartoons and all of us reading history or science together.

That sounds like they aren't overly lacking in academic enthusiasm or compliance. I think you are rating on a different (perhaps somewhat unrealistic 🙃) compliance scale.

For my kids, I barely even count whining, distraction, wandering away, endless negotiation, or incessant delay tactics as non-compliance because all of those I simply expect and make accommodations for. True non-compliance for us, which we deal with on a daily, hourly, minutely basis, is tantrums, hiding, tearing up or throwing away assignments, lying about having done work, and absolute refusal to do school work even if it is as simple as listening to me read aloud...and that is not just Elliot, those are common behaviors for all of my children with regard to school, chores, hygiene, rules, etc. They take non-compliance to a whole 'nother level!

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Just now, wendyroo said:

That sounds like they aren't overly lacking in academic enthusiasm or compliance. I think you are rating on a different (perhaps somewhat unrealistic 🙃) compliance scale.

Well, yes, my kids are much easier than yours 😛 . But they aren't particularly compliant by most people's measures. DD8 is quite uninterested in doing what I ask her 😉. She's interested in learning, yes... but she has a lot of trouble thinking about questions I ask her and gets sulky and whiny about it.  

You also have to remember that my kids have picked basically ALL of their work. There's pretty much nothing being imposed on them. So this is the level of compliance I get when they've already mostly called the shots and when every day is designed to their liking. 

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15 hours ago, daijobu said:

I remember reading here or somewhere else this lovely idea that at the start of each school year, one should ask their beautiful children what they want to learn that year.  My kids' response?  <shrug>  

My oldest’s response to this question this year: “I want to learn how to argue.” 

With regard to the OP’s question and some comments on how certain professionals are encouraged to be authoritative, and it didn’t help with her son to say she was learning with him, I think projecting calm authority can help a lot to make people (and kids in particular) feel more secure and safe.  Not that it makes it easy, though!

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2 hours ago, Eilonwy said:

With regard to the OP’s question and some comments on how certain professionals are encouraged to be authoritative, and it didn’t help with her son to say she was learning with him, I think projecting calm authority can help a lot to make people (and kids in particular) feel more secure and safe.  Not that it makes it easy, though!

Yeah, I have to say that letting go of the expectation that learning will be totally collaborative and making it clearer that I'm in charge has made things better for everyone around here. DD8 still gets much more say than a lot of kids, I think... but we have way fewer power struggles. 

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On 5/5/2021 at 12:55 PM, Homeschooler_CH said:

It's all him. We're always talking through whatever questions he might have since he wants to know why we're doing something the way we're doing.

Some of his religious questions had me for a spin but this one is defnitely more mature than anything i've seen before from him.

This the need for authority at some level is also i see missing in our home. 

 

If he came up with his “minute” comment, you are probably already doing a good job nurturing his intelligence through the way you are always having conversations with him about things.  You are doing a good job mama.

I suspected the authority thing. I am very old to have such young children, so my authority comes from experience in all the things.  I also take credit for some of my kid’s intelligence and tell them that.

I would remind him that it doesn’t take a PhD to teach someone 5th grade elementary topics. That could backfire later if you continue to homeschool, but by then you would have experience. haha.

Btw, I don’t even homeschool, so I know I couldn’t do it. Mostly I would just rather someone else did it. Almost anyone who wants to do a thing would do better than someone who doesn’t. I do teach them though, mainly because I just can’t leave something so important to someone else. I especially wasn’t comfortable with leaving teaching reading to public school. When my kids got to the part where PS taught reading, I was really glad I had already taught them. I didn’t like how they did it at all.

My oldest would come home and say, “Can you believe the other kids can’t even read?” I was like, “Well, that isn’t because you are so smart, it is because I am.”

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On 5/6/2021 at 12:35 PM, cintinative said:

I don't really know how to answer this. I think my kids are just not the type to show a dramatic love for anything. My kids might like a teacher but the way they respond to that might cause other people to think they are indifferent about it.  They just aren't wired to be excited about things.  My friend's kid would say, "I just can't wait to learn math today!" My kids have never been like that. They would say they like youth group and video games, and if pressed that they like reading, art, and science labs (sometimes) but they would never go around saying, "I really like to read."  High praise from them is "it's okay" and the very low end is "I hate this, can we burn it?"

I've got one like that especially, and one that when around the first one is more like that, but without her around, is actually a whole more excitable, lol.  But funny thing is, I have noticed something.  Here is an example.  We go birdwatching as a family a couple of times a year.  We look for bald eagles every few years when they migrate through.  We took two full days, and drove across the state practically a couple of years ago to a couple of reserves until we saw some up close and personal.  Unexcitable child was grumpy much of the two days.  And when we finally found them at the end of a long day number two, didn't even get out of the car for very long with the rest of us to watch and admire them.  The next year she called and said, 
"Are we going eagle watching this year? That was fun."    So she has good memories of our learning, our bird watching, our family traditions, our homeschool, our art projects, even when she is unexcited or even sometimes downright grumpy through them.  This wake up call was amazing to my soul.  So we just keep powering through those things! 

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On 5/6/2021 at 4:53 PM, Lucy the Valiant said:

 

Another thing for kids to realize is that autonomy = freedom. The GOAL is for him to "out-grow" your abilities . . . to no longer need your teaching help . . . that's the POINT of education, no matter which venue it takes. You and he are a team working together toward this shared end goal - that he be a functioning, educated, self-motivated & responsible fully-living human. The faster he assumes that role (responsibly & respectfully), the faster you can treat him like an adult - in math (choose his own courses / set his own pace / join teams / etc.), in laundry (he never again need wait for Clean Special Shirt / may be able to organize clothes & personal systems according to his own preference), in literature (choose his own books / join group discussions . . . or not / analyze movies that mirror plot lines / focus on a particular time period), in science (do more experiments & less book work, focus on a specific area - biology, chemistry, zoology, technology) . . . really, the sky's the limit! This is the FUN part!

I definitely agree.  But the OP's son is 10 years old.  What I  have noticed over the years is that many many parents underestimate the level of scaffolding that their middle school and even high school students need.  So yes, to more and more autonomy over the years but we want to set them up to succeed.  Part of that is making them learn those building blocks even when it isn't fun or exciting.  And part of of it is teaching them executive function skills (and scaffolding those if they have EF deficits).  You need those at a minimum to be able to do the fun stuff. 

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