Marriage CC

[IfIOnly]

Without going into too much detail, I'm in a spiritually abusive marriage. It used to be murky, grey, and confusing to me, but I'd stand up to him each and every time he said it did something awful anyway. Thankfully, It was witnessed by friends recently who confronted him, and this has given me a lot of courage. I was shocked but so thankful he said those things to others and it was out for others to see.

It's next level now though. He told my son last night that he wasn't saved and looked at me with disgust and told me he's talking to me next. He had told me he needed to "meet with me" earlier in the day. I knew it was probably about my salvation again. He said horrible, awful things to my son. That he has no fruit, his life doesn't line up with the scriptures, and so much more. My husband says he's "calling us out" and that he has a special revelation and understanding from the Lord about salvation and God has called him to call out the many in the church who think they're saved but are not. He believes he's God's chosen one to purify the church and herald in a great revival before the Lord comes. For many years he has talked about his special ministry and his time has come. He's making a CD and believes his music will change the world. He has "prepared me" in a talk to be famous after it comes out.

He is a narcissist who sucked me in a changed abruptly after we married. Someone came to me several years ago and told me they believed my husband was a narcissist and after looking it up, my life and our relationship (never has been one in the true sense of the word) made so much sense. He was raised by a narcissist mother who let him treat her like trash. He was raised very wealthy, and given anything he wanted. He's was a master manipulater at a very young age.

I know this can't go on, but I don't know what to do. I feel so stuck. I want to leave but I don't know how that's possible. I have chronic illnesses, and we live in a crazy expensive rental housing area with a housing shortage. If I had all the resources in the world, I'd get my own place, legally separate, and tell him unless he goes to counseling indefinitely and sees and confesses and gets help for his abusive behavior, we're not getting back together or putting our children through his carp. He's also mentally ill. Before he came to Jesus, he thought he was Jesus, then the devil. He was not in anyway raised in a Christian home or ever went to church, so I don't know where all that stuff came from for him. He was in a psych ward for sometime, but I don't know what the official diagnosis was. He believes he was demon possessed, which I've never agreed with. I don't ever see him saying he is mentally ill. 

So there's my craptastic situation. I really do not know what I can do to get out.

[Ottakee]

The book, Is It Me? Is very very good.  See if you can get it from the library or but a copy 

[pinball]

This sounds very dangerous. 

Many people with mental illness have spiraled in a very bad way due to all the things happening in the US

this is not about religion for him...it is a mental illness wrapped in religion.

i would get a burner phone, today, and start contacting any and every possible person and organization that can help you get your children and yourself to a safe place.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

This is serious mental illness. In all honesty, he isn’t going to change unless it involves some significant medication and psychiatric care.  It doesn’t sound like he realizes that he needs it, and at this point you don’t have grounds to pursue involuntary commitment.

https://www.nami.org/Your-Journey/Family-Members-and-Caregivers  NAMI has some good resources and a toll free number to call.  A therapist for yourself would be very helpful; especially a local therapist who is likely to have access to resources that can help you out of your marriage.  
 

It may help to understand that his abusive behavior is not your fault, and perhaps not even his. He’s clearly suffering from delusions that he believes are real.  I’ll be honest; he needs more than counseling, he probably needs inpatient care.  But all you can start with is you.  Therapy for both you and your children is a great place to start.

Also, it sounds like others see the situation. Are they able to help you practically, like a safe place to stay and assistance with accessing your local resources?

Edited May 3, 2021 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[bolt.]

There are probably some local organizations that help abused women and children in your area. You need to begin making a solid exit plan in a strategic way.

How are things financially? Can you begin skimming off some money into an account he won't have access to? Or in cash?

Do you have a vehicle that is 'yours'? Can you begin keeping things in there without him noticing what is going on? Can you move important documents out of the house?

Is he doing more that talking crap? Is there an implicit threat that makes you willing to sit through these conversations? What would happen if you said you didn't want to talk about it any more? Are you safe to start having some boundaries even if they upset him, or is that an unsafe choice?

Can you soothe him and feed him lies for a while, so you have time to prepare? "Yes, I believe in your mission -- I can't wait for your fame. I buy your new salvation ideas, can I be saved in the new way now?" -- How long can you stay while you get ready to go? Weeks? Months? Years?

How are divorce laws in your state? If you separate will you have nothing for a while, with the expectation of a fair settlement eventually? Or will you have basically nothing forever? Child support?

Do you have any beginnings of career skills or applicable education to start a new life?

Can you get into therapy to support your own strength and wisdom in this difficult situation? What excuse can you give your husband to get him to not oppose you getting therapy? Or could you keep it a secret?

[klmama]

((IfIOnly))  I'm praying for all of you.  

[IfIOnly]

2 minutes ago, bolt. said:

There are probably some local organizations that help abused women and children in your area. You need to begin making a solid exit plan in a strategic way.

How are things financially? Can you begin skimming off some money into an account he won't have access to? Or in cash?

Do you have a vehicle that is 'yours'? Can you begin keeping things in there without him noticing what is going on? Can you move important documents out of the house?

Is he doing more that talking crap? Is there an implicit threat that makes you willing to sit through these conversations? What would happen if you said you didn't want to talk about it any more? Are you safe to start having some boundaries even if they upset him, or is that an unsafe choice?

Can you soothe him and feed him lies for a while, so you have time to prepare? "Yes, I believe in your mission -- I can't wait for your fame. I buy your new salvation ideas, can I be saved in the new way now?" -- How long can you stay while you get ready to go? Weeks? Months? Years?

How are divorce laws in your state? If you separate will you have nothing for a while, with the expectation of a fair settlement eventually? Or will you have basically nothing forever? Child support?

Do you have any beginnings of career skills or applicable education to start a new life?

Can you get into therapy to support your own strength and wisdom in this difficult situation? What excuse can you give your husband to get him to not oppose you getting therapy? Or could you keep it a secret?

I walk away when things cross boundaries and tell him why. I speak up everytime. Really.

This is good stuff. Thank you.

[cintinative]

I'm scared for you based on your description.

Have you heard of Leslie Vernick? I would check out her website and her talks. Her book, The Emotionally Destructive Marriage, would be really helpful, if you can afford to buy it.  That said--It sounds like it might be a situation where he might get angry if he saw the book, or website, so I want to encourage you to be very careful. Can you do research at the library?  Be careful where you check this thread, for example. A burner phone is a good idea.

I agree that it is good that others are seeing this and have been supportive. 

There is no easy path out of a marriage like this. You are going to need a lot of support, even if it is just for a separation.  It will be important to have a plan ahead of time if he escalates things if/when you confront the behavior.  Have a bag packed and a plan for what you will do with you and the kids. 

Start documenting his behavior somewhere safe where he can't find it.  Sadly, with the friends I have that had this type of spouse, it got really really bad when they pursued separation and divorce.  He will not hesitate to throw you under the bus if he is like their spouses, and/or he could become threatening/violent.

Is your family supportive? 

 

[MercyA]

Oh, sweetheart. I am so sorry. I will be praying for you and your children.

Do you have family you could stay with?

Is your church aware of his mental illness and delusions? 

[Selkie]

Agreeing with others that this sounds dangerous. To be blunt - people with that kind of delusions are often in the news for doing terrible things, and that makes me very concerned for the safety of you and your kids. I hope you are able to get away from him asap.

[IfIOnly]

I don't think he would physically hurt us. He's been trying to turn my kids against me for years though. I don't want to go into detail, but it's bad.  I know that would exponentially increase. My biggest fear is losing my kids relationship in the process because he goes there now, you know?

Edited May 3, 2021 by IfIOnly

[Scarlett]

27 minutes ago, pinball said:

This sounds very dangerous. 

Many people with mental illness have spiraled in a very bad way due to all the things happening in the US

this is not about religion for him...it is a mental illness wrapped in religion.

i would get a burner phone, today, and start contacting any and every possible person and organization that can help you get your children and yourself to a safe place.

Yes, to this and especially to the bolded.

If it is legal in your state I would suggest you tape your conversations with him.  Try to meet with an attorney and see what suggestions and resources he might have for you.

[egao_gakari]

I'm so sorry to read this. I will pray for you. You are getting some excellent advice from others in the thread. Don't feel that you have to take every single piece of advice though. It can get overwhelming really fast. Only do the things you know you are able to do, and do safely. You sound like you are operating with wisdom and sound judgment in your interactions with him; keep that up. Be open with trustworthy people in your church community and don't downplay how bad it is. They can be valuable resources. But don't let them change your mind if you decide civil divorce is the only way to keep yourself and your kids safe.

My mom opened up a PO box at a post office that my dad didn't normally go to. She used that PO address to apply for housing and other assistance. I think of credit cards as a bad thing normally, but in this kind of situation I might apply for a couple under that PO address, and keep them for emergency use, like if it became unsafe and you had no other option but to take the kids and get a hotel room. Look up the nearest women's shelter if there is one near. The hardest thing is acknowledging that this is a women's shelter kind of situation. It doesn't mean you have to leave right now. But you should know where it is.

It will be complicated, but don't assume there isn't a way out. If you have a paypal that he doesn't have access to/know about, you can seek donations. Or you can have a (very trusted) friend accept the donations to their accounts instead. I've donated to things like this in the past, small amounts because I don't know the people personally, but I'd rather give a small amount and have a scammer take it than not give and potentially lose the opportunity to help.

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, IfIOnly said:

I don't think he would physically hurt us. He's been trying to turn my kids against me for years though. I don't want to go into detail, but it's bad.  I know that would exponentially increase. My biggest fear is losing my kids relationship in the process because he goes there now, you know?

What do you say to your kids about his behavior?  

[IfIOnly]

No family. I have good friends though, thankfully. My best friend moved back last summer, and she's been shocked at the abusive dynamics and led the recent confrontation. 

[Scarlett]

And it is really great that he showed his behavior toward you to others.  Are those people who would be willing to sign affidavits on your behalf?

[IfIOnly]

Sorry, I do have to take a break from postibg for a bit, but thank you. I will get back here as soon as possible and try to answer questions.

[mommyoffive]

You are getting some great advice.  

Get a therapist for you and your kids. 

Get advice on how to find a safe place to live.  

I am so sorry that you are in this situation.  Please check in often.   I will be thinking of you and sending good thoughts your way.  

[Scarlett]

Also  be very careful to clear your history to places like what you are posting here.  

I see you have a 12th grader.  How is he feeling about all of this?

 

[hjffkj]

I am so sorry to hear this.  His mental health issues sound awful.  Is it escalating? You say you don't think he would physically hurt you but what happens when his serious discussions with you and the kids about saving your souls doesn't go the way he plans.  He may one day decide that your failure to see the truth is because of a demon in you and he may try to get it out. I have seen this play out with people. 

What are your finances like?  If I were you I would start figuring out an exit plan.  Pack a bag for you and your kids and leave it at your best friends house, in case you need to leave the house quickly.  That bag should have ALL of your and your kids important documents (birth certificates, passports, social security cards, previous tax returns, car titles, house deed, etc.)   Next I'd start slowly socking away cash in anyway you can.  And I'd be looking into work options for you and having a frank discussion with your best friend about if it would be possible for you and the kids to move in with her for an extended period of time.   I can't give you advice on the legalities of leaving with the kids so you should also talk to a lawyer in order to figure out how you can legally do it.

 

I will be praying for you and your family.

[cintinative]

I had typed up some stories and decided not to share it for privacy's sake. 

Suffice it to say, narcissistic behavior is not always linear or predictable. Don't assume that anyone who is narcissistic and controlling won't go to physical control or s*xual control. They might. I'm not saying you should live in fear. I am saying that practically speaking, you should have a plan, in case he does go there.  Do your packing when you are calm and clear-minded so you don't have to do it in crisis.  

And definitely pursue personal counseling (not couples or marriage counseling).  

I prayed for you today. I am so sorry that you are dealing with this.

Edited May 3, 2021 by cintinative

[WildflowerMom]

Does he have access to guns?   If so, you might want to move the bullets elsewhere so if he tries to get to them, he'll be out of luck.  

I don't have anything to add to what you've already been told, but please know I am praying for you.  

Also, if you do have a way to make a donation, I will gladly donate.   If you'd like to get the book that was suggested above and you don't have a way to pay for it, PM me and I'll send you the money, no worries.  
 

💛

[fraidycat]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. It sounds dangerous.

I know you said you didn't have resources, but please remember that people are resources, too. Those friends who witnessed some of his behavior, if trustworthy, you could tell them that what they saw was only the tip of the iceberg and that you need help. Even friends and family who haven't witnessed it. Find someone you trust and share your story with them. 
 

If I had a friend in your situation, I wouldn't hesitate to let them & the kids come stay with me, if need be, & feed them for as long as necessary IF the experts in domestic violence said it was safe and okay to do so. Find all of the dv resources in your area and ask them for help in devising a safe exit plan ASAP.

[KungFuPanda]

You need to line up allies, including the police, and plot your escape without him knowing it.  This man is dangerous and will definitely escalate once you make your move.  I imagine it's nearly impossible to have someone committed, but you HAVE to figure this out.  Staying doesn't seem remotely safe and you need to go before further harm is done to your children.  This is not normal or OK.

[prairiewindmomma]

You aren't stuck. He wants you to feel this way, because it keeps you trapped.

Your safety--emotionally and physically--as well as that of your kids must come first.  Please reach out to agencies in your area.  I know in my HCOL area, there is a lot out there.  Come up with a safety plan, and then start moving forward. There are so many women here who have been in similar boats (needing to leave a bad marriage).  My IRL BFF has been there also.

You can do this!!!

 

[R828]

You are brave, you are strong and most importantly you are beloved and cherished by God.

I know it can seem overwhelming but please try to follow some of the excellent advice you’ve gotten here. I will be praying for you and your children.

[Farrar]

I just wanted to add to the voices of support here. Holding you in the light. Please listen to what people are saying start documenting, lining up allies, and making a very concrete escape plan.

[elegantlion]

Agree with others, you need to line up finances, friends that can attest to his control, friends that will let you stay with them for a few days to a long while if you need to get out immediately. I would document everything. If he monitors your computer then print it out and delete or hand write and hide. Pull your credit report, know exactly what is on it, exactly what is in your name, and what is owed on any debts, also check tax records if you're not sure. 

When you document things, be specific and factual, not emotional. Date them. Computer files are better because there is metadata to show proof of when something was written. Believe me, documentation can be an asset if it comes down to he said/she said. 

Determine what skills you have for a job, assuming you are not working now. 

I would not talk to the children about leaving. 

If you can schedule a meeting with a lawyer to fully understand your state laws if would be good. 

Above all, remember. This is not your fault. 

Remember, a narcassist can look perfect to those who can't see inside your daily life.

I can relate to your story, trust your gut. Stay no longer than is necessary. 

 

[Moonhawk]

{{{{}}}}} I'm sorry you're going through this.

Everyone has given you great advice.

As far as timing, I would highly, highly recommend getting out before the CD releases. He's declared a deadline when things will really "begin". And he's right: it's going to "really begin" with the CD release, just not the in the way he's saying.  And I bet things are going to escalate leading up to the release. CD release time is stressful even for stable musicians, and it is *not* a time you want to be around if it doesn't go as expected. And, let's be honest, he isn't going to be instantly famous once it's released. You do not want to be around when that happens.

[WildflowerMom]

I’m coming back to this...   Someone mentioned “going along with him” and I think I agree.   I think I would pretend to be “on his side” while you are figuring out everything.   Also, I’m on my phone now and can’t remember exactly how old your kids are but I think your oldest is fairly old, maybe an adult?  Is that the one he’s picking on?   Can you tell that kid privately to just be agreeable with dad right now?  I know that is not everyone’s family dynamic so if that is not something you’re comfortable with, I totally get it.    I’m just thinking of trying to get through to that kid that you’re on his side while also trying to placate dh for a while.    Is the oldest kid planning to leave for college or anything?   Just trying to think of some ideas for you... 

[Ottakee]

1 hour ago, elegantlion said:

. If he monitors your computer then print it out and delete or hand write and hide.

Just a note....a computer wavy person can recover things deleted on a computer or recreate what you did.   When my life was about to blow, I went to using my phone or an outside computer/printer for things  

[IfIOnly]

Everything just sucks and is so twisted right now. I feel hopeless.

[saraha]

(((IfIOnly))))

[pinball]

4 minutes ago, IfIOnly said:

Everything just sucks and is so twisted right now. I feel hopeless.

You need something to hold onto, to ground yourself in that you are not what he says that you are, and that you are worthy of a life that doesn’t involve abuse.

Is there someone right now, this second, you can call and just say you need to talk to? Say you need a friendly voice?

[bolt.]

7 minutes ago, IfIOnly said:

Everything just sucks and is so twisted right now. I feel hopeless.

Yes, I hear you. It's so normal to feel hopeless in these situations. Problems like the ones in your household are the type of thing that really feel like they are going to chew all of you up and spit you out. I'm so sorry!

Remember that you are not alone. Make space for all of your feelings. Maybe stretch yourself a little to wonder if it's possible that you have more power than you can see in yourself right now. (If that's not too hard.)

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, Seasider too said:

A name keeps coming to mind. Andrea Yates. She said her children were...not righteous. 
 

I am not trying to scare you. Just reiterating that your situation sounds dangerous and you need to protect yourself and children. 

That is exactly who I thought of....scary stuff.  Mental illness often gravitates to religion for some reason.

[IfIOnly]

I called the local DV hotline and got voicemail. Left a message. I called about a year ago but didn't get far and chickened out. They were really great though. I'm pretty sure they offer counseling. I think that's the best place to start and hopefully a plan and some clarification in my thoughts can start. I think this is a good step and it gives me some hope and calm. Ty.

[bolt.]

Just now, IfIOnly said:

I called the local DV hotline and got voicemail. Left a message. I called about a year ago but didn't get far and chickened out. They were really great though. I'm pretty sure they offer counseling. I think that's the best place to start and hopefully a plan and some clarification in my thoughts can start. I think this is a good step and it gives me some hope and calm. Ty.

That's a really good step! This is not an easy process. Keep on being brave!

[IfIOnly]

2 hours ago, Moonhawk said:

{{{{}}}}} I'm sorry you're going through this.

Everyone has given you great advice.

As far as timing, I would highly, highly recommend getting out before the CD releases. He's declared a deadline when things will really "begin". And he's right: it's going to "really begin" with the CD release, just not the in the way he's saying.  And I bet things are going to escalate leading up to the release. CD release time is stressful even for stable musicians, and it is *not* a time you want to be around if it doesn't go as expected. And, let's be honest, he isn't going to be instantly famous once it's released. You do not want to be around when that happens.

He's a legend in his own mind. It's going nowhere. He's at best a mediocre singer and his lyrics are cheesy, preachy, and just off base in several ways.

Edit: his mom is funding and cheerleading the whole thing. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by IfIOnly

[Scarlett]

I completely understand the total fear you can feel. You can press on anyway though.  Once you really believe that you CAN change this situation you will be able to move forward with some steps.  

[cintinative]

Good job taking that first step of self-care and calling!!

 

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, IfIOnly said:

Everything just sucks and is so twisted right now. I feel hopeless.

You're in a very difficult situation. It's not like you get a breather to regroup - you're trying to process, and plan, and deal with current abuse at the same time..

I think it can be extremely overwhelming; it's ok to have feelings of hopelessness as a reaction. 

Even good advice can be really overwhelming. Can you choose one piece of advice to follow through this week? 

Here's my suggestion, pulling from the ideas already given. But you may prefer to pull another single piece of advice. 

Immediate safety. Wildflower's suggestion about dealing with guns in the home - if applicable.

If not, (or after this), talk to your friend. Tell her it's really bad, and that you feel hopeless. 

I see hope in your situation (others see, have spoken up, close friend, your own ability to see the abuse for what it is). I also understand how overwhelming it all is. This is really, really hard. Sending gentle hugs. 

[IfIOnly]

My husband called the elders on me again. He says it's to help us, but it's always to set me straight. He has never gone when I'm at my wit's end with him or for his own faults and failings, only for mine. He has done this over and over again during our marriage  We're all meeting tonight. It's so humiliating to have your worst out there. This church is the best we've been to and it's one of the leaders wives who told me she believes my husband is a narcissist. I think it will go better than last. The last time the church elders were led by my husband to question my salvation and lead me in the sinners prayer as I sobbed. My friends assure me this could be good to get things more out in the light and support for me. I've never had that outcome though. 

[popmom]

I am praying for you and your children. 
I know of 2 moms who were in very similar situations, and they are ok now. I know you are feeling hopeless, but you are going to get there. I will help if I can.

[IfIOnly]

1 minute ago, IfIOnly said:

My husband called the elders on me again. He says it's to help us, but it's always to set me straight. He has never gone when I'm at my wit's end with him or for his own faults and failings, only for mine. He has done this over and over again during our marriage  We're all meeting tonight. It's so humiliating to have your worst out there. This church is the best we've been to and it's one of the leaders wives who told me she believes my husband is a narcissist. I think it will go better than last. The last time the church elders were led by my husband to question my salvation and lead me in the sinners prayer as I sobbed. My friends assure me this could be good to get things more out in the light and support for me. I've never had that outcome though. 

Adding: I told my husband I will no longer go to the churches he's attracted to after the elders questioning my salvation, and I have not. He's drawn to churches that are unhealthy 

[IfIOnly]

1 minute ago, Seasider too said:

Why are you going tonight, then? This sounds like spiritual abuse, dragging you before the elders.

How will he react if the elders tell him he’s actually the problem?

Do you have a plan for your kids to be elsewhere while this occurs? And someone who can pick you up when it is over so you don’t have to ride home with him?

 

It's not at our house, and my friends are picking me up.They weren't invited (or necessarily not wanted-well my husband doesn't want them there I know, I mean by others), but they're coming anyway. 

[IfIOnly]

I don't have to go, and if it was an unhealthy church, I wouldn't. But maybe I will get some help and support this time.

[IfIOnly]

Hopefully his plans will backfire. That's what my BFs think will happen. I can only hope.

[IfIOnly]

Just now, Seasider too said:

Ok so you will have witnesses. I still think it is dangerous, and foolhardy of the elders, unless they actually plan to have an intervention and confront your husband rather than you. In that case you really need to be sure that you don’t have to go home with him after the meeting, because he may be unstable. 

I don't know what they're thinking. 

[Ottakee]

The book Is It Me? Speaks to these very things.

If you send me a message with a safe name and address I will gladly order you a book and have it shipped to a friend or somewhere safe for you.  It talks all about this type of behavior.