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12-15 year olds vaccine experiences


Katy
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20 hours ago, HeartString said:

Wait…won’t ALL elementary kids be unvaccinated and clustered together in buildings once school starts? 

As they have been in many schools this school year.

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36 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Wow.  I mean I have no words.  

The exact words in the last group text was that “If you’re vaccinated, you shouldn’t even be at practice because you’ll be shedding.”

I just ignore it but my kids are black and white thinkers who have a  majority of their family and family friends who work in healthcare. Science is a big thing here.

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55 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

The exact words in the last group text was that “If you’re vaccinated, you shouldn’t even be at practice because you’ll be shedding.”

I just ignore it but my kids are black and white thinkers who have a  majority of their family and family friends who work in healthcare. Science is a big thing here.

Yeah, I feel bad for your kids that they have to listen to that.  Insane.  But I also feel bad for kids who have parents teaching them this too.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

The exact words in the last group text was that “If you’re vaccinated, you shouldn’t even be at practice because you’ll be shedding.”

What exactly do these nutbars think people are "shedding"? Since there's no actual virus in the mRNA vaccines, what are these magical infertility cooties that apparently jump off of vaccinated people onto the unvaxxed? What do they think is the biological mechanism for this? It's basically the 21st century equivalent of thinking that the Elephant Man's deformities were caused by his mother being scared by an elephant when he was in utero. 

Edited by Corraleno
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

We were prohibited from wearing perfume during choir rehearsals and performances. As a mother of asthmatic, I completely get it. I have a collection of perfume at home (all gifts) that I never wear. 🙂 

I am not talking about experimental (Covid)vaccines though. I am talking about established things, like measles. There are children who might not be able to vaccinated for medical reasons. I would hate for them not to be able to visit Disneyland or join a dance studio plot generally participate in life. But that’s what it looks like to me. 


Unless it has changed, Disneyland was very good about special help to people with medical problems.  Whether that might be wheelchair assistance, or perhaps it might be possible to get seating at front of a Small World boat for less likely breathing in of air of someone sick might be requested. Most outbreaks I recall from when I lived in So Cal and paid attention were likely from tourists from all over world with many different exposures and different vaccine use.  I think considering the number of people going through Disneyland and the relative rarity of illness outbreaks that it was pretty safe.  
 

(eTA: It may have changed a lot with using tech for being able to get passes in advance to go on  rides, and bypass lines, but at least used to be lots of time outdoors, walking around or waiting in lines, and relatively short time indoors in rides - many of which had lots of airspace and weren’t really fully closed in.  ) 
 

I don’t know much about dance studios in general.   I am not aware of pre Covid times them being particularly risky for illness transmission. I think a lot have fairly large volume of air and good air transfer.  Maybe it depends a lot if it’s people dancing up close face to face compared to separated out along  a barre. And I suppose a barre itself could be wiped clean before use though I don’t recall anyone doing so before cv19 in places I was. (NYC mostly). There would have been likely contact with bus, subway, elevator, handholds, buttons, turnstiles, knobs, tokens, ...     I think a lot would present a potential problem besides the dance studio in such circumstances.

 

  I know a lot came up in discussion when I was in high school to graduate school type stage for various reasons, but particularly due to people with AIDS and their vulnerabilities. And also part of my time there was a TB time as well as AIDS.   We had people with AIDS at various of my schools. I think not going when sick was considered the main thing to do to help.  
 

 

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14 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

What exactly do these nutbars think people are "shedding"? Since there's no actual virus in the mRNA vaccines, what are these magical infertility cooties that apparently jump off of vaccinated people onto the unvaxxed? What do they think is the biological mechanism for this?

I'm not saying I agree with them or that there is great risk, but you did ask, so I'm supplying that answer....

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/americas-frontline-doctors-covid-vaccinated-can-shed-spike-protein-harming-unvaccinated

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5 minutes ago, Martha in GA said:

I'm not saying I agree with them or that there is great risk, but you did ask, so I'm supplying that answer....

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/americas-frontline-doctors-covid-vaccinated-can-shed-spike-protein-harming-unvaccinated

So, let me get this straight: shedding "spike proteins" would be a problem, but we shouldn't be worried about getting COVID itself, which also has a spike protein? 

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8 minutes ago, Martha in GA said:

I'm not saying I agree with them or that there is great risk, but you did ask, so I'm supplying that answer....

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/americas-frontline-doctors-covid-vaccinated-can-shed-spike-protein-harming-unvaccinated

Anyway, there's no spike protein shedding.

If you're going to worry about "shedding" internals, why worry only about "spike proteins"? Why not about other internals? 

https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/may/06/debunking-anti-vaccine-hoax-about-vaccine-shedding/

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Posted (edited)
On 5/24/2021 at 11:39 AM, Martha in GA said:

I'm not saying I agree with them or that there is great risk, but you did ask, so I'm supplying that answer....

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/americas-frontline-doctors-covid-vaccinated-can-shed-spike-protein-harming-unvaccinated


I heard a different answer which is “we don’t know.”   
 

there seem to be a spate of things like little girls (pre-menarche stage) visiting just vaccinated grandparents* and having vaginal/uterine bleeding.    Afaik, there is no clear known mechanism. But it needs to be investigated and figured out.  “Debunking” via news type websites without actual medical investigation does not help people ime. There are now some doctors trying to get better information on exactly which vaccine type and other specifics like that to try to look into it. 
 

* or at least people are saying that is happening. No personal experience.  In my close enough to follow what’s happening family afaik all the unvaccinated children who would visit vaccinated grandparents are little boys. 

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3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

So, let me get this straight: shedding "spike proteins" would be a problem, but we shouldn't be worried about getting COVID itself, which also has a spike protein? 

Well, Covid is pretend, so they aren't too worried about that.

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11 minutes ago, Martha in GA said:

I'm not saying I agree with them or that there is great risk, but you did ask, so I'm supplying that answer....

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/americas-frontline-doctors-covid-vaccinated-can-shed-spike-protein-harming-unvaccinated

Not directed at you, Martha, but wow, that’s sad. For a supposedly pro-life, Christian site to get wrapped up in promoting bat ***t crazy crud makes their cause look absolutely ridiculous. Do they also support “America’s Frontline Doctors” claim about STDs being caused by women having sex with demons in their dreams? The world has gone mad, I tell you 😔

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9 minutes ago, Martha in GA said:

I'm not saying I agree with them or that there is great risk, but you did ask, so I'm supplying that answer....

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/americas-frontline-doctors-covid-vaccinated-can-shed-spike-protein-harming-unvaccinated

America's Frontline Doctors includes the doctor who believes disease is caused by demon sperm and that Izard people run the government. The leader of the group, Simone Gold, was arrested for taking part in the January 6th insurrection. And a tiny piece of a virus has no means of replicating itself and cannot cause disease.

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Just now, Roadrunner said:

You would think by now enough people who know somebody who suffered to put that theory to rest. 

They claim the cod is something else and the doctors diagnosing and listing it as covid is part of the conspiracy.  The evidence is irrelevant.  They will always have a reason to dismiss it.

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1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

You would think by now enough people who know somebody who suffered to put that theory to rest. 

Even sadder is that it seems that if someone doesn’t know someone personally who suffered, then it doesn’t matter that millions of other people did and continue to, and that the promotion of these crazy conspiracy theories are prolonging the misery and assuring that greater numbers suffer than otherwise would have to. 

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1 minute ago, Syllieann said:

The evidence is irrelevant.  They will always have a reason to dismiss it.

Exactly. As evidenced in this very thread. If evidence is presented, it’s that “the PCR cycles were manipulated” or “if it even was a placebo in the first place” etc. Everything is a conspiracy and there is no evidence that would ever prove otherwise to someone determined to believe the conspiracy. They have to decide they don’t want to be sucked  into the crazy anymore in order for the veil to fall from their eyes and for reality to become clear. 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

Well, Covid is pretend, so they aren't too worried about that.


Ad hominem attacks  ?

 

I know of people who have had severe CV19 themselves - certainly do not think it pretend - and are also concerned about the issue of something unknown seeming to transmit from people who have gotten one or both shots and to adversely affect others.
 

Those are not mutually exclusive. 
 

 I also think it can be very easy for people to jump to a conclusion that thinking CV19 case numbers were inflated or can be manipulated by PCR cycles means people think it is pretend
 

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24 minutes ago, Pen said:


Ad hominem attacks  ?

 

I know of people who have had severe CV19 themselves - certainly do not think it pretend - and are also concerned about the issue of something unknown seeming to transmit from people who have gotten one or both shots and to adversely affect others.
 

Those are not mutually exclusive. 
 

 I also think it can be very easy for people to jump to a conclusion that thinking CV19 case numbers were inflated or can be manipulated by PCR cycles means people think it is pretend
 

You may not think it's pretend, but plenty of the people espousing this in my homeschool group do think it's pretend.  I apologize if it came across as accusing you of believing that.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/23/2021 at 12:46 AM, Ausmumof3 said:

Sorry this might be the wrong thread as I’m running and don’t have time to find the WuhAn one but might be good to be aware.  Apologies if it’s already been shared.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-23/us-reportedly-investigating-heart-issues-after-covid-vaccine/100158880

  • There have been reports of heart inflammation issues with teens and young adults after receiving an mRNA COVID-19 vaccines
  • The CDC says the condition often goes away without complications and can be caused by a variety of viruses
  • Authorities say they did not find more cases of the condition than would be expected in the population, but felt healthcare providers should be aware

 

I have a hunch that it is going to be a thing, because the cases are clustered within a few days after the second dose.  Putting it out to providers may result in more cases being reported so that they can get a better handle on how many cases there are and whether it is connected. I posted about it probably a month ago when there were articles about Israel and the US military, but a couple of weeks ago, the European Medical Agency was looking into it, and there were reports from Italy and somewhere else in the EU, maybe France. 

What I would love to know is why this wasn’t discussed by the committee in approving the EUA for 12-15. They knew about it then. Even parents just being aware that it was being discussed would have been good.

 

18 hours ago, KSera said:

If anyone is curious where all this talk about the PCR cycle rate keeps coming from, I thought this was a pretty thorough explanation: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/no-covid-19-casedemic/

(spoiler: it’s one of those things that’s big in conspiracy circle camps seeking to downplay the pandemic and portray Covid19 as being purposely designed to control people)

Yes, the casedemic term is a falsity.

However, there are many credible doctors, experts in their fields, who were noting the lack of infectiousness of certain PCR results (including Dr. Fauci) from last summer. They were calling for the numbers to be reported for better interpretation, and one reason was so that people were not unnecessarily isolated for 10 days. I don’t understand why that didn’t seem to to happen to any great extent. Some change comes slowly, I guess. 

16 hours ago, Syllieann said:

 

15 hours ago, calbear said:

Cant break apart these quotes. 😕 ETA and now the one I replied to is gone.-

A lot of public school refugees are wanting the same thing (someone else to teach the kids five days a week for “homeschooling”) even with no vaccine exemption issues. I don’t really understand it. 
 

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To the heart issue thing:  well crap, and yeah, why wasn't this discussed before approval for younger teens?

Re the risk of MIS-C in kids, which people are looking to the vax to avoid:  I've seen some discussion that they're considering the possibility that the vax itself could cause MIS-C, and it kind of makes sense when you consider that the vax is trying to replicate some of what the virus does.  (They are investigating this - hopefully they will have a good answer one way or the other before they try to roll the vax out to young kids.)

My kids are scheduled for shot2 in early June.  I think we'll go through with it unless I hear more bad news before then.

(My kid also asked me about whether the shot is going to give her heavy period bleeding.  They read everything online.  I don't think it should be a major problem, but she'll probably be nervous about it.)

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2 minutes ago, SKL said:

To the heart issue thing:  well crap, and yeah, why wasn't this discussed before approval for younger teens?

Re the risk of MIS-C in kids, which people are looking to the vax to avoid:  I've seen some discussion that they're considering the possibility that the vax itself could cause MIS-C, and it kind of makes sense when you consider that the vax is trying to replicate some of what the virus does.  (They are investigating this - hopefully they will have a good answer one way or the other before they try to roll the vax out to young kids.)

My kids are scheduled for shot2 in early June.  I think we'll go through with it unless I hear more bad news before then.

(My kid also asked me about whether the shot is going to give her heavy period bleeding.  They read everything online.  I don't think it should be a major problem, but she'll probably be nervous about it.)

Maybe they didn't find anything in the trials for the heart issues?  Since it was such a small trial?  Not sure though, I wish they would have done a bigger trial since Pfizer had this with the adults didn't it? 

Do you have any info on the Mis-C with the vaccine?  I hadn't heard that.

OYYY I also didn't think anything about the periods.  I hope that doesn't happen.   I did have a heavy period after my 2nd shot, but I always do.  This one was probably worse than normal cramps wise, but again sometimes I have crippling ones so it isn't totally out of the ordinary.

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1 minute ago, mommyoffive said:

Maybe they didn't find anything in the trials for the heart issues?  Since it was such a small trial?  Not sure though, I wish they would have done a bigger trial since Pfizer had this with the adults didn't it? 
 

I’m sure they didn’t. The trial is only in the thousands and the effect is rare. 
 

1 minute ago, mommyoffive said:

Do you have any info on the Mis-C with the vaccine?  I hadn't heard that.

I’ve heard theories about it but I haven’t heard of actual cases. If it does happen, I’m sure we’ll know soon enough. MIS-C is very rare even with COVID, so I’d be surprised if it’s a common effect.

 

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On 5/23/2021 at 2:39 PM, Not_a_Number said:

There are definitely pockets of high vaccination, though. My zip code is something like 56% fully vaccinated, and that's the percentage of the whole population, not of the 18 and up population. I'm sure that by the middle of the summer, we'll be firmly in the 60s or even up to 70, and given that people in NYC also have some natural immunity (for better and worse), I would expect the risk of getting COVID to be pretty small locally. 

Of course, there's always travel. But discrete events never have a high risk, anyway. And we'd be traveling to other highly vaccinated pockets. 

Vermont is 70% with 1 dose and 53% fully vaccinated. The governor dangled a "the day we hit 80%, is the day he will lift all restrictions" as a carrot to get more people in. 

DS got his first shot today - went well. Will report back w/ side effects.

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2 hours ago, Penelope said:

However, there are many credible doctors, experts in their fields, who were noting the lack of infectiousness of certain PCR results (including Dr. Fauci) from last summer. They were calling for the numbers to be reported for better interpretation, and one reason was so that people were not unnecessarily isolated for 10 days. I don’t understand why that didn’t seem to to happen to any great extent. Some change comes slowly, I guess. 

Right, but as explained in the link I shared, the problem is that we don’t know an exact threshold yet at which we can say it’s not infectious. Some people at those thresholds will be infectious and some will not. In the case of this disease at this time, it’s better to catch the ones that may be infectious then to ignore them in case they aren’t.  Based on our case numbers as they relate to hospitalizations and deaths, it appears our approach with that has not been overly cautious.

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3 hours ago, Pen said:


I heard a different answer which is “we don’t know.”   
 

there seem to be a spate of things like little girls (pre-menarche stage) visiting just vaccinated grandparents and having vaginal/uterine bleeding.    Afaik, there is no clear known mechanism. But it needs to be investigated and figured out.  “Debunking” via news type websites without actual medical investigation does not help people ime. There are now some doctors trying to get better information on exactly which vaccine type and other specifics like that to try to look into it. 
 

 

Do you have links?  That honestly makes no sense given what an MRna vaccine does.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Do you have links?  That honestly makes no sense given what an MRna vaccine does.


nm 

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2 hours ago, KSera said:

Right, but as explained in the link I shared, the problem is that we don’t know an exact threshold yet at which we can say it’s not infectious. Some people at those thresholds will be infectious and some will not. In the case of this disease at this time, it’s better to catch the ones that may be infectious then to ignore them in case they aren’t.  Based on our case numbers as they relate to hospitalizations and deaths, it appears our approach with that has not been overly cautious.

I’m not sure if this is the predominant thinking, actually, from what I’ve heard. I’m not trying to be argumentative, but the author of the article and site you linked, though a doctor, is not the kind of expert I am talking about. His primary goal is to shut down the quackery, and that seems to be about it. 
 

Anyway, Covid wasn’t a casedemic, that we agree on. 
If we kept on testing asymptomatic people with this much population immunity and recommending restrictions based solely on that, then I think it is possible we could transition to a “casedemic.” But the US is thankfully not going that way.

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4 hours ago, SKL said:

 

Re the risk of MIS-C in kids, which people are looking to the vax to avoid:  I've seen some discussion that they're considering the possibility that the vax itself could cause MIS-C, and it kind of makes sense when you consider that the vax is trying to replicate some of what the virus does.  (They are investigating this - hopefully they will have a good answer one way or the other before they try to roll the vax out to young kids.)

 

Do you remember where you saw this? I shared this article that mentioned the theoretical possibility, but I haven’t seen anything else and would like to read more if there’s anything.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Penelope said:

 I’m not trying to be argumentative, but the author of the article and site you linked, though a doctor, is not the kind of expert I am talking about. His primary goal is to shut down the quackery, and that seems to be about it. 

I do agree with that. I thought he did a good job explaining and refuting the quackery though, which is why I shared that one. 

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6 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I’ve heard theories about it but I haven’t heard of actual cases. If it does happen, I’m sure we’ll know soon enough. MIS-C is very rare even with COVID, so I’d be surprised if it’s a common effect.

If fear of MIS-C is the main reason people want the vax for little kids, then IMO it's significant even if it's a rare side effect of the vax.

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3 hours ago, Penelope said:

Do you remember where you saw this? I shared this article that mentioned the theoretical possibility, but I haven’t seen anything else and would like to read more if there’s anything.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7768290/

Excerpt:

"Children who have been diagnosed with severe MIS‐C have been found to have higher levels of antibody response to SARS‐CoV‐2 including higher levels of receptor‐binding domain, neutralization titers, and antibody levels against the spike protein and viral nucleocapsid. 10 , 11

This kind of inflammatory risk makes vaccine development particularly challenging in the pediatric population. If the vaccine is able to induce this type of antibody response, then it would potentially place otherwise healthy children at risk of severe outcome following vaccination intended to prevent illness from SARS‐CoV‐2. Even in small numbers, this is highly concerning. It thus is critical to have a deeper understanding of the pathophysiology and mechanisms associated with those that develop MIS‐C in order to effectively study vaccines in the pediatric population. Only by rigorously studying the vaccine candidates for links to potential MIS‐C causes can we create the safety profile needed for large scale vaccination of the world’s pediatric population."

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RE: people "shedding" vaccine and causing fertility problems, here is a tweet from Q-nut Simone Gold claiming that Pfizer "warned men to stay away from pregnant women," but the text she linked does NOT say that at all.

What the Pfizer text actually says is that if a woman becomes pregnant after either she or her partner were vaccinated, or after either she or her partner were exposed to the vaccine through inhalation or skin contact, it should be reported as a vaccine-exposed pregnancy.

It absolutely does NOT in any way suggest that pregnant women are at risk simply by touching or breathing near a vaccinated man. The only "exposure" here that is relevant would be an exposure to the semen of a vaccinated man that resulted in pregnancy.

Simone Gold is either incredibly stupid or she knows perfectly well that the Pfizer document does not say what she claims, but hopes most of her twitter followers are dumb enough to believe it.

Screen Shot 2021-05-24 at 10.33.47 PM.png

Screen Shot 2021-05-24 at 10.33.14 PM.png

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8 hours ago, SKL said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7768290/

Excerpt:

"Children who have been diagnosed with severe MIS‐C have been found to have higher levels of antibody response to SARS‐CoV‐2 including higher levels of receptor‐binding domain, neutralization titers, and antibody levels against the spike protein and viral nucleocapsid. 10 , 11

This kind of inflammatory risk makes vaccine development particularly challenging in the pediatric population. If the vaccine is able to induce this type of antibody response, then it would potentially place otherwise healthy children at risk of severe outcome following vaccination intended to prevent illness from SARS‐CoV‐2. Even in small numbers, this is highly concerning. It thus is critical to have a deeper understanding of the pathophysiology and mechanisms associated with those that develop MIS‐C in order to effectively study vaccines in the pediatric population. Only by rigorously studying the vaccine candidates for links to potential MIS‐C causes can we create the safety profile needed for large scale vaccination of the world’s pediatric population."

Wow, one of the references for that article shows that antibody levels were about 10 times as high in the children with MIS-C. Could this not be as much of a concern now that we know what the antibody levels after vaccine are for age 12-15? I don’t think you can directly compare the numbers, but the pediatric specialists must have some insight. 
 

I saw a chart comparing average antibody levels measured after all the vaccines as well as natural infection, and as we’ve been told, it struck me that a few of the vaccines got the levels up higher than natural infection generally does. And levels are higher for 12-15 than for 16-25, but not 10 times as high, 1.5 to 2 times as high.

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We went ahead and got 15yo DD and 13yo DS their first shots yesterday.

Both have a significantly sore arm with some visible swelling. DD also said she feels lousy and tired. She is my PANS kid.  DS is being extremely dramatic about the soreness, but also making jokes that I got him the "cheap Shop Rite brand vaccine" and that's why it hurts so much. 

I wish there was a way to check titers for antibodies to see if a second shot is necessary.  

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1 hour ago, Penelope said:

Wow, one of the references for that article shows that antibody levels were about 10 times as high in the children with MIS-C. Could this not be as much of a concern now that we know what the antibody levels after vaccine are for age 12-15? I don’t think you can directly compare the numbers, but the pediatric specialists must have some insight. 
 

I saw a chart comparing average antibody levels measured after all the vaccines as well as natural infection, and as we’ve been told, it struck me that a few of the vaccines got the levels up higher than natural infection generally does. And levels are higher for 12-15 than for 16-25, but not 10 times as high, 1.5 to 2 times as high.

I've been keeping an eye on this because I was concerned it might not show up in the trials with such low numbers.  So, a couple things:

This is just a correlation.  We don't know if higher antibody levels caused mis-c or if they are a response to mis-c, or perhaps both are caused by something else.

Pfizer and Moderna both have trials in progress all the way down to 6 months that involve thousands more children than in the 12-15 trial cohort.  With every day that goes by without hearing anything about mis-c in vaccinated participants, I get a little more confident that the vaccine either won't induce it or will induce it so rarely that it is still far better to vaccinate.

 

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On 5/24/2021 at 12:17 AM, Pen said:


I don’t know.   Maybe months?  My understanding is they are looking for more information.  
 

My local area has a mixture of people who have and have not gotten shots, people who have  and have not had the illness itself. We don’t seem to be avoiding each other. But I guess if some are, I would not know because they’d be hiding out and I would probably not see them at mixed school functions and so on.  

 

From what I have read though I think it may be months for some as it gets figured out. I don’t personally know anyone pregnant right now.   I would think caution in that case might be duration of the pregnancy plus early newborn stage. So that could be over a year. 
 

and I’ve heard of a doctor who is not taking vaccinated patients because his receptionist is pregnant 

 

 

What, exactly, are "they" looking for?

In order to know how long a substance may be "in the air", IT NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO BE MEASURED. That way, you can measure it's appearance / frequency / dissipation over time.

So, I want to know....what, exactly, is being measured? How are they measuring it? What are the procedures for gathering said substance? How do they quantify it?

And if people don't have SPECIFIC answers to these questions, they're just blowing smoke out of an orifice.

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24 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

I've been keeping an eye on this because I was concerned it might not show up in the trials with such low numbers.  So, a couple things:

This is just a correlation.  We don't know if higher antibody levels caused mis-c or if they are a response to mis-c, or perhaps both are caused by something else.

Pfizer and Moderna both have trials in progress all the way down to 6 months that involve thousands more children than in the 12-15 trial cohort.  With every day that goes by without hearing anything about mis-c in vaccinated participants, I get a little more confident that the vaccine either won't induce it or will induce it so rarely that it is still far better to vaccinate.

 

MIS-C is so rare. Even if it’s been undercounted, it is too rare to conclude anything from the trials on a few thousand children. There are calculations to figure out how many participants you need to detect certain outcomes. The numbers they have used and are using are much too low to detect even one case of very rare events. 

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1 hour ago, Happy2BaMom said:

What, exactly, are "they" looking for?

I don’t know. 

1 hour ago, Happy2BaMom said:

In order to know how long a substance may be "in the air", IT NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO BE MEASURED. That way, you can measure it's appearance / frequency / dissipation over time.

So, I want to know....what, exactly, is being measured? How are they measuring it? What are the procedures for gathering said substance? How do they quantify it?

 

I think often people notice a problem and do not yet know what is causing it.

Are miscarriages and early viable births rates both up or either up currently for unknown reasons? 

 

1 hour ago, Happy2BaMom said:

And if people don't have SPECIFIC answers to these questions, they're just

 

many people have experienced problems before there are specific understandings of why 

 

Personally, if I were pregnant right now or  planning to be soon I would be trying to be as careful  as I could be.  And I would probably be concerned about wild virus, other sicknesses, vaccines, and if there were indications of potential problems even if unexplained also exposures to people who were vaccinated. 

 

1 hour ago, Happy2BaMom said:

blowing smoke out of an orifice.


 

I would also try to avoid people who said things like  the above  - or acted like they thought it
 

In my view, we are all of course children of God, with a divine spark potential in all of us . You as much as me. Me as much as you.  Pregnant women who are worried about the vaccine -including exposure secondhand, and pregnant women who are not worried about it. 
 

 

 

 



 

 

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1 hour ago, Penelope said:

MIS-C is so rare. Even if it’s been undercounted, it is too rare to conclude anything from the trials on a few thousand children. There are calculations to figure out how many participants you need to detect certain outcomes. The numbers they have used and are using are much too low to detect even one case of very rare events. 

But even while they are doing that, more 12-15 year olds are being vaccinated.  We might expect a lower rate of mis-c in the 12-15 group than the youngest but at some point it would show up.  My state alone is at 45,000 12-15 year olds.  I'm guestimating the country is past a million.  Maybe it would take a few weeks to work it's way back in a report, but in another month or so I'll be feeling pretty confident that if it does show up, it will be rare enough that vaccination will still be justified for almost all kids.

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1 minute ago, Pen said:

I don’t know. 

 

I think often people notice a problem and do not yet know what is causing it.

Are miscarriages and early viable births rates both up or either up currently for unknown reasons? 

 

 

many people have experienced problems before there are specific understandings of why 

 

Personally, if I were pregnant right now or  planning to be soon I would be trying to be as careful  as I could be.  And I would probably be concerned about wild virus, other sicknesses, vaccines, and if there were indications of potential problems even if unexplained also exposures to people who were vaccinated. 

 


 

I would also try to avoid people who said things like  the above  - or acted like they thought it
 

In my view, we are all of course children of God, with a divine spark potential in all of us . You as much as me. Me as much as you.  Pregnant women who are worried about the vaccine -including exposure secondhand, and pregnant women who are not worried about it. 
 

 

 

 



 

 

"I don't know" is not an answer.

Experiencing problems before knowing why means that no conclusions can be drawn, let alone assigned to a specific variable.

Divine spark potential does not translate to all truths being equal, valid, or even true.

Fears of physical things which can't even be shown to exist do not need to be considered valid by others.

And I'll continue to call bull&*^% on gossip and lies until someone can produce actual evidence.

 

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Happy2BaMom said:

"I don't know" is not an answer.

 

As far as I know it is an answer, and the correct one from me personally. 

I consider “I don’t know” to be a very important statement . 
 

Eta: Moreover, I think we might be better off if “I don’t know” were an answer given more often when it is true. 

 

Quote

Experiencing problems before knowing why means that no conclusions can be drawn, let alone assigned to a specific variable.

Divine spark potential does not translate to all truths being equal, valid, or even true.

Fears of physical things which can't even be shown to exist do not need to be considered valid by others.

And I'll continue to call bull&*^% on gossip and lies until someone can produce actual evidence.

 

 

I was hoping divine spark potential would be a reminder toward kindness. I believe more kind expressions are possible. Obviously you have no intent to do that 

 

as with another person on here I am putting you on “ignore” because I find nastiness and even unnecessarily nasty language  to be disruptive to my health

 

you can write whatever you want in response to my posts - I won’t be seeing them from now on

 

ETA: for whomever, not particularly @Happy2BaMom 

I am not personally shunning people who were vaccinated.  And as I wrote on a thread where someone is trying to figure out whether to let their DD attend a mixed gathering of vaccinated and not, my son and his friends do that.  And I have been at his school for various reasons where some people are and some people are not vaccinated. 
 

I had tried to explain what I knew or had heard about what is happening with regard to people who are currently avoiding people who have been vaccinated  in answer to @calbear . Hence “they”.  “They” was not a euphemism for “me” — however,  I do tend to be cautious — and indeed have to be so due to chronic health issues. 

Edited by Pen
Clarity - maybe
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Not a vaccine experience, but at my kids' high school, they had 1 case of Covid in the past week.  Because this individual is on the volleyball team, all of her teammates are quarantined.  This is the second last week of school.  So 19 kids, who aren't sick, will miss the last week of instruction and finals week (unless they are able to take finals remotely).

As I told my kids, this is why we are getting vaxed ASAP.  (In their case, as mostly physically mature females, I consider the Pfizer vax to be tested enough since it's been available to 16yos for months.)

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On 5/24/2021 at 8:53 AM, Pen said:

I’ve noticed a bunch of “confused” emojis on my posts. Is “confused” actually meant? Or choosing that emoji because it has a disgruntled look and you r using it as shorthand to mean you don’t like what I wrote? 

I can't speak for the people who put the confused emoji since I was not one of them, but I believe that they might be confused that a doctor (MD) would believe that being around vaccinated people would potentially cause harm to his pregnant receptionist. Or confused that people actually believe in "vaccine shedding" in general.

Just as you believe there is not enough evidence yet that the mRNA vaccines greatly reduce transmission, many (including me in this statement) don't believe there is enough (in some cases, any) evidence in the phenomenon referred to as vaccine (or spike-protein) shedding. Thus, they are "confused" by people who are acting very strangely based on beliefs that seem (to many of us) to be baseless.

I understand people believe different things. I believe the mRNA vaccines are causing breakthrough bleeding in some vaccinated individuals even though there is not enough proof to show causation yet for many scientists. I am waiting for more data on certain things that have been witnessed/experienced while giving credence to some & dismissing others (until I see more data) in my mind.

Just wanted to give you my opinion on the "confused" emojis.

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So...the title of this thread is 12-15 year olds vaccine experiences!  Can we not just leave it at that?  On any of these types of threads?  They always get derailed and it sucks.  If I wanted to read about whack-a-doodle conspiracy theories, there are plenty of other places (and other threads) to read about them.  I would just like to know how the 12-15 year olds are doing with their shots!  I would like to support other parents making these decisions for their 12-15 year olds.

Good grief!  

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What's the maximum time between first and second shots that you would feel comfortable? 

I need to wait until the AP exam and other events are over. All of Dd's friends have had barely a reaction from the second shot, but I still prefer to wait. 

Dd has food allergies, but she didn't react to the first shot, so I know she's not allergic to the vaccine. Is that safe to conclude? I thought I read that the second dose is more potent.

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