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Josh Duggar was arrested today


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2 minutes ago, maize said:

There are actually people who grew up with horribly abusive parents and became responsible, kind, thoughtful adults.

Humans behavior is just so complex. We are a mix of our genes and our environment and our own choices in response to our environment, and no single factor has determining control. 

I'm not at all saying I don't think Josh's parents--or anyone's parents--had not impact. 

Only that parents don't have control, in either the direction they desire or any other direction.

Absolutely - but that doesn't meant the parents behavior didn't lead to scars. Because it absolutely did. 

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As far as I'm concerned, without evidence showing otherwise that poor woman is a victim.  She has been brainwashed her whole life with an abusive belief system.  She likely has zero money of her own a

I will say I don't follow the Duggar family at all.  I have heard bits and pieces, mostly here. Not knowing the charges, but suspecting them, I will say I was in his wife's position 3 years ago. 

I agree, strongly with what you wrote here. Additionally, in terms of the massive amount of sympathy directed toward Anna in this thread, as someone who escaped out of a similar religious setting m

43 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Anyone know what time the hearing is today? 

 

1:30 central

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, LucyStoner said:

This whole thing about the kids not getting paid is one reason I just can't watch "reality" TV.  TLC films these shows in states where there aren't laws protecting the children- work hours, pay held in trust.  I don't believe that parents have the right to use their kids like this.  There's also literally no amount of money that would get me to sell my children's privacy like that so I must admit I am pretty critical of parents being willing to do so. 

This board's opinion has changed so much re: the Duggars.  

I grew up in a Catholic family who attended a protestant church for a time when I was a pre-teen.  I had the random opportunity to attend BLP with Bill Gothard himself (at the time, it was emphasized to us how lucky we were that he would be live and not on video!) in 1992 and so I attended, with a friend from the church.  Fortunately, my parents (especially my mom) were not taken in by the nonsense.  I sat there for the whole week (maybe it was Wednesday to Saturday and not a full week?) in pants listening to him talk about how it was wrong for girls to wear pants and that Cabbage Patch dolls are evil. I also got to see him run an absolute staged scam on stage (a man, supposedly possessed by demons, attacked Gothard on stage! But wait, the man's father was in the audience!  But wait, our prayers had healed the man!  And now the man, who was possessed by demons just moments ago was tearfully asking all of us to sing his favorite hymn!) and when I first told this story here, there were still people defending Gothard and his methods, lol.  Because of their association with ATI, I was always REALLY skeptical of the Duggars.  I know good families got caught up in it but they weren't just caught up in it, they were promulgating it.  

Even at age 12, I saw through his staged attack trick and I sat there wondering how many of the people in Mercer Arena were buying it.  After the first day, I mostly went back because we got to eat lunch at the Center House in Seattle Center (12 year old Katie absolutely LOVED the lemonade at The Frankfurter 😛 ), I didn't have to go to school AND I was curious what crazy thing he would say next.  The gave us leatherette books with their teachings in them and the seminar followed the book so my book was full of my comments, rebuttals and doodles.  I wrote the word NO a lot.  

That is really interesting that you saw through it all as a child.  

As to the bolded, count me as one who has had their opinion changed.  But I will say that I knew next to nothing about them.  I just have always loved big families and liked that part.....I did not know about the crazy cult like religion that was causing so much harm.  

Same with "On Becoming Baby Wise".  I read that book when my son was a newborn and I honestly DID gain some insight to a baby's sleep schedule.  I 1)apparently had a revised edition and 2)do a lot of tossing out the bad when I read child books.  Once I got on this board and learned about the affiliation with the Pearls I quickly realized how bad it truly was.  Now I never recommend that book, but I still recommend the points I took away that helped me with my newborn.  

I think what I have learned the most is to not be quick to jump on a bandwagon....read, research and pay attention to where the money is streaming from and to.

Edited by Scarlett
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1 hour ago, OH_Homeschooler said:

Well, he is Josh Duggar and never faced a consequence in his life. 

My ex was convinced while he was under investigation that he was going to be cleared. He said his defense attorney read the statements my daughters made and "nothing looked that bad." (You bet your ass I voted against him when he later ran for D.A.) After his arrest I found a journal where he had written about wanting to double his income that year, and wanting to take the family to Disney once the whole thing was over. Instead, he was arrested, lost his job, and went to prison. And none of us ever want to see him again.

These men are truly delusional.  

Hugs.   They just don't get it.   Mine still does not.

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I've learned everything I know about ATI from this forum. It's entirely outside my world.

I was interested in the Duggars early on because they were a prominent large family and I came from a large family; there aren't many people who can identify with growing up in a double digit family! I've learned however that, other than being religious and having lots of kids, their world has nothing in common with mine.

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3 hours ago, LucyStoner said:

 

Even at age 12, I saw through his staged attack trick and I sat there wondering how many of the people in Mercer Arena were buying it.  After the first day, I mostly went back because we got to eat lunch at the Center House in Seattle Center (12 year old Katie absolutely LOVED the lemonade at The Frankfurter 😛 ), I didn't have to go to school AND I was curious what crazy thing he would say next.  The gave us leatherette books with their teachings in them and the seminar followed the book so my book was full of my comments, rebuttals and doodles.  I wrote the word NO a lot.  

I attended several of his seminars when I was probably ages 12-14. I never witnessed a staged (or otherwise) attack, but I also remember specifically objecting to several aspects of his teachings that no doubt contributed to his ability to get away with what he did. For example, he teaches strongly against "taking up offenses," which means that if Josh does something wrong to Jinger, that is solely between Josh and Jinger. Anna can't be angry with Josh about it and has no recourse against Josh because it was not an offense against Anna. Even as a child, I knew that was dangerous, and I am sure it explains a lot about why his followers never ratted him out. Likewise, the teaching that a woman being raped should cry out to Jesus for help to keep from being raped--well, the very implication that a rape is her fault for not engaging in this ritual was ridiculous. And he goes on and on about the sins of the fathers, etc., being passed down to the children and its implications for adopted children (who are basically the spawn of Satan), with some rituals in which one should engage to keep this from happening to your adopted child. Now, I say this as one who believed (and still believes) in literal demons and holds a host of other theologically conservative positions. But, still, despite the dangers I could identify even at that age, I sat through 4 or 5 days' of his basic seminar, several times. He is an engaging speaker, and at the time, I did not think everything he said was worthless (I pretty much do now, of course). I also think a lot of what he pushed was not presented until the advanced seminar level, which I never attended. For example, large families were not a focus in the basic seminar at that time, although they may have been added later.

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1 hour ago, maize said:

I've learned everything I know about ATI from this forum. It's entirely outside my world.

I was interested in the Duggars early on because they were a prominent large family and I came from a large family; there aren't many people who can identify with growing up in a double digit family! I've learned however that, other than being religious and having lots of kids, their world has nothing in common with mine.

Same, that I never heard of ATI until this forum.  Duggars are from my home state so that was always of interest.....but yeah clearly now that we all know more they are outside my world as well.

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, plansrme said:

I attended several of his seminars when I was probably ages 12-14. I never witnessed a staged (or otherwise) attack, but I also remember specifically objecting to several aspects of his teachings that no doubt contributed to his ability to get away with what he did. For example, he teaches strongly against "taking up offenses," which means that if Josh does something wrong to Jinger, that is solely between Josh and Jinger. Anna can't be angry with Josh about it and has no recourse against Josh because it was not an offense against Anna. Even as a child, I knew that was dangerous, and I am sure it explains a lot about why his followers never ratted him out. Likewise, the teaching that a woman being raped should cry out to Jesus for help to keep from being raped--well, the very implication that a rape is her fault for not engaging in this ritual was ridiculous. And he goes on and on about the sins of the fathers, etc., being passed down to the children and its implications for adopted children (who are basically the spawn of Satan), with some rituals in which one should engage to keep this from happening to your adopted child. Now, I say this as one who believed (and still believes) in literal demons and holds a host of other theologically conservative positions. But, still, despite the dangers I could identify even at that age, I sat through 4 or 5 days' of his basic seminar, several times. He is an engaging speaker, and at the time, I did not think everything he said was worthless (I pretty much do now, of course). I also think a lot of what he pushed was not presented until the advanced seminar level, which I never attended. For example, large families were not a focus in the basic seminar at that time, although they may have been added later.

Interesting and really good points about taking offense.  

I’ve heard from others that there were similar “attacks” at different seminars but of course, it’s not a tactic that one can use all the time.  

My friend who invited me was from a much more conservative family (my parents were *very religious* but also politically progressive hippie types- my mom took us to both anti-war protests and pro-life rallies). My friend later became a missionary.  She didn’t go in for the more restrictive stuff about gender either tho and her and her husband have opted not to have children for career (she has a PhD and now works at a religious university) and health reasons.  

Coming from a Catholic family, at the time it wasn’t that I didn’t believe in demons but rather that I didn’t think a demon possessed man would go from rushing the stage of an event to *asking thousands of people to sing his favorite hymn* in a matter of minutes.  The coincidence of his father “who hadn’t seen him in years” just happening to be there also made me think it was a farce. 

ETA:  I think one reason I was skeptical of Gothard at such a young age was that the anti-Catholic sentiment in that circle was very noticeable.  Coming from a Catholic family, I was somewhat protective of my roots.  My parents had left the Catholic church (though both subsequently returned) and so it wasn't like I didn't have any of my own criticisms of the church but I also knew that a lot of what I was hearing said about Catholicism was simply factually untrue.  When people lie to me about one thing, I tend to assume there are more lies coming.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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Posted (edited)

Jill and Amy attended the hearing today, which is a bold move for Jill since she’s definitely not there to support Josh.  Good for her-doing what she needs to do. 
‘Edited to add: it’s all via zoom, so I guess they’re not physically there. I’ve seen it reported from multiple sources, but of course it might not be true.

Edited by Annie G
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1 minute ago, Annie G said:

Jill and Amy attended the hearing today, which is a bold move for Jill since she’s definitely not there to support Josh.  Good for her-doing what she needs to do.

And Amy's reaction to the video of him being booked was, "is he smiling?!?" or something like that. She's no fan. 

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2 minutes ago, Annie G said:

Jill and Amy attended the hearing today, which is a bold move for Jill since she’s definitely not there to support Josh.  Good for her-doing what she needs to do.

How do you see this?  I thought the hearing was delayed a few minutes because of audio issues.

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9 minutes ago, Katy said:

How do you see this?  I thought the hearing was delayed a few minutes because of audio issues.

 

Just now, AbcdeDooDah said:

Link?

I’m just relaying what I’ve read on Free Jinger.  They’re not 100% reliable but it’s shocking just how often they are. 

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Katie Joy is going live when it's over.  It's against the rules to report or be on social media during. I don't think she's the greatest at legal interpretation but so far she's mostly been in line with what the lawyers who report a few days later say (at least for the first hearing).

 

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Posted (edited)

I don’t know what shocks me more: Josh Duggar downloading young child CSA and being stupid enough to use his birth year as a  common password or the Sun illegally reporting.

 

(That was pure sarcasm)

 

Edited by Mrs Tiggywinkle
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23 minutes ago, Katy said:

The hearing is ongoing. The Sun is illegally reporting anyway.  He used the same password as he did for his bank.

https://www.the-sun.com/entertainment/2828786/josh-duggar-child-porn-court-hearing/

Criminal defense tip:  If law enforcement seizes your computer and doesn't give you a reason you should not causally ask if "someone" downloaded child porn onto it.

 

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2 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I don’t know what shocks me more: Josh Duggar downloading young child CSA and being stupid enough to use his birth year as a  common password or the Sun illegally reporting.

 

The being stupid enough to use his birth year as a password.

but I listen to 1dd go off on mega rants about people doing poor computer security.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I don’t know what shocks me more: Josh Duggar downloading young child CSA and being stupid enough to use his birth year as a  common password or the Sun illegally reporting.

 

That people are stupid with their passwords never ceases to amaze me.  WHY would someone use the same password with their bank for anything makes zero sense to me.  Silver lining: at least he was stupid enough to get caught!   

Edited by LucyStoner
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1 minute ago, LucyStoner said:

That people are stupid with their passwords never ceases to amaze me.  WHY would someone use the same password with their bank for anything makes zero sense.  At least he was stupid enough to get caught!   

the stupidity that is bred of arrogance.  makes it easier for law enforcement. children everywhere should be grateful.

enjoy the big house creep.

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4 minutes ago, Danae said:

Criminal defense tip:  If law enforcement seizes your computer and doesn't give you a reason you should not causally ask if "someone" downloaded child porn onto it.

 

I wish I could have seen his lawyer’s face when that little revelation was said in court today. 

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6 hours ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I totally agree. I will not watch or follow any reality programming that uses minor in an ongoing way.  I have been saying this for years.  And I was slammed for it during the Duggar golden years.  Emotionally healthy parents don't pimp their offspring's childhood for financial gain.  

This is one reason why I am a little concerned when I see early college kids or other child prodigies getting a lot of media coverage. I've been told I'm just jealous when I've raised such concerns-but I am kind of glad that my teen's online presence is largely limited to conference listings and titles, not articles about "Kid Genius comes to campus" that would potentially be googled by a future roommate, when all my kid wants is to NOT stand out based on age. 

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Just now, Katy said:

Does this cult believe in reprobates, or is that a Calvinism only thing?

Oh no, everyone is forgiven everything if they confess. 
Gothard was sexually assaulting young teenagers himself and created a cult where all is forgiven.

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g

9 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

This is one reason why I am a little concerned when I see early college kids or other child prodigies getting a lot of media coverage. I've been told I'm just jealous when I've raised such concerns-but I am kind of glad that my teen's online presence is largely limited to conference listings and titles, not articles about "Kid Genius comes to campus" that would potentially be googled by a future roommate, when all my kid wants is to NOT stand out based on age. 

Oh, I absolutely agree. I have one kid that got called a prodigy to his face for a few years in music circles, both my kids are GT. It's definitely informed how I've chosen to parent and launch my own kids.  

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They believe in someone being reprobate. However, that is for people outside of ATI, and beyond rare for a male to be declared that. In Gothard world,the only truly reprobate thing is to not believe in Bill.Got hard, and his minions take that to heart. They really do not worship god; they worship Bill and his weirdo beliefs. So for Josh, so long as he keeps up his sad face, and says he is sorry, and the devil made me do it, and that wife you gave me made me do it, and even worse and very likely "I saw McKenzie when she was wrapped in a towel, and she tempted me", then all is forgiven. He cannot fall from the pedestal. And according to the " wisdom booklets"and Advanced Institute, for him to be into child porn, children had to have tempted him, been immodest around him. That is the theology of the religion. So that means his own kids or his nieces and nephews depending on how they choose to land the blame, will be counseled about their role in daddy uncle's mistakes, and why they caused him to sin.

JimBob has the umbrella of authority over Anna now, and so the responsibility is his to mete out the "counseling" and consequences. Consequences are spelled out in the wisdom.booklets and conferences, Pearl like and worse. I weep for the children tonight.

 

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1 hour ago, Katy said:

The hearing is ongoing. The Sun is illegally reporting anyway.  He used the same password as he did for his bank.

https://www.the-sun.com/entertainment/2828786/josh-duggar-child-porn-court-hearing/

It's deeper on Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/n5qs3x/bond_hearing_prosecution_first_witness/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

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I'm not a violent person at all. I don't believe in the death penalty, for example.   I won't say what I want to happen to him because it goes against what I just said and I'll be called a hypocrite.  Which I am, I guess.   Child molesters and their ilk deserve something really really horrible.  And that's all I'll say.   
 

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1 minute ago, WildflowerMom said:

I'm not a violent person at all. I don't believe in the death penalty, for example.   I won't say what I want to happen to him because it goes against what I just said and I'll be called a hypocrite.  Which I am, I guess.   Child molesters and their ilk deserve something really really horrible.  And that's all I'll say.   
 

I don't think they are held in high esteem by other prison inmates either.  

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6 minutes ago, Laurie said:

I don't think they are held in high esteem by other prison inmates either.  

I think now they may be put in protective custody with others like them.   I think cops who go to prison are put in that area, too, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. 

I know years ago, my ex-aunt worked at a womens' prison in south Florida and she said that it was hell for child molestors.  But for some reason I think they now put them in another cell block.  

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16 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

I think now they may be put in protective custody with others like them.   I think cops who go to prison are put in that area, too, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. 

I know years ago, my ex-aunt worked at a womens' prison in south Florida and she said that it was hell for child molestors.  But for some reason I think they now put them in another cell block.  

You're probably right.   And I wouldn't want the other inmates who are there for other types of crimes to be forced to have these people around them.  

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It looks like he's been released on bail to live with friends of the family supposedly supervising his compliance with bail conditions.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

Okay. This details exactly what he downloaded. It's blacked out with a trigger warning. 

My question: was Anna at the hearing? She needs to know exactly what he was looking at and I pray to God someone tells her.

Edited by MercyA
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1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

What is being reported in the media is just the tip of the iceberg. According to police testimony, as detailed in that thread, he specifically searched for rape videos and downloaded videos of children as young as 18 months being raped and physically tortured. He is one seriously sick son of a bitch. 

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He can have unlimited contact with his children as long as his wife is present.  

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omg!  I just read the blacked out part of that reddit post.  If you haven't, just don't.  It is sad and gross. What a disgusting piece of s**t. I have a really hard time not wishing bad things on him beyond living behind bars.

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18 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

What is being reported in the media is just the tip of the iceberg. According to police testimony, as detailed in that thread, he specifically searched for rape videos and downloaded videos of children as young as 18 months being raped and physically tortured. He is one seriously sick son of a bitch. 

I cannot believe after all of that evidence he will be allowed to have contact with children let alone have a family member supervise visits with kids. He has a history of assaulting children in the presence of others and his fantasies are obviously violent and sadistic.

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And Anna is the "supervisor" for visitation with the children.

I would like to puke. I am so sick of these s.o.b.s being released on bond while people rot in jail because they used drugs three times, never hurting anyone else! As a taxpayer, housing this waste of skin until trial is exactly what I want my money used for!

There isn't a hole deep enough for them to throw his car as into that would satisfy me, and I am beginning to think the judge should be removed from the bench. 

The children need to be taken away from her. The end.

The Rebers (sp?) were asked by JimScum to house the p.o.s. and they admitted they are not tech savvy, have guns in the house, and give piano lessons to children but guessed they could stop the lessons and relocate the guns. The wife said she had been unaware of how serious the charges were, and that her husband made the decision to take p.o.s. in, and she would respect it. I.E. ATI speak for "submit".

I am camping with my family, and I just really need to go heave a log on the fire, and not think about this.

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1 minute ago, Faith-manor said:

And Anna is the "supervisor" for visitation with the children.

I would like to puke. I am so sick of these s.o.b.s being released on bond while people rot in jail because they used drugs three times, never hurting anyone else! As a taxpayer, housing this waste of skin until trial is exactly what I want my money used for!

There isn't a hole deep enough for them to throw his car as into that would satisfy me, and I am beginning to think the judge should be removed from the bench. 

The children need to be taken away from her. The end.

The Rebers (sp?) were asked by JimScum to house the p.o.s. and they admitted they are not tech savvy, have guns in the house, and give piano lessons to children but guessed they could stop the lessons and relocate the guns. The wife said she had been unaware of how serious the charges were, and that her husband made the decision to take p.o.s. in, and she would respect it. I.E. ATI speak for "submit".

I am camping with my family, and I just really need to go heave a log on the fire, and not think about this.

what pieces of S**t these people are.  

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

And Anna is the "supervisor" for visitation with the children.

I would like to puke. I am so sick of these s.o.b.s being released on bond while people rot in jail because they used drugs three times, never hurting anyone else! As a taxpayer, housing this waste of skin until trial is exactly what I want my money used for!

There isn't a hole deep enough for them to throw his car as into that would satisfy me, and I am beginning to think the judge should be removed from the bench. 

The children need to be taken away from her. The end.

The Rebers (sp?) were asked by JimScum to house the p.o.s. and they admitted they are not tech savvy, have guns in the house, and give piano lessons to children but guessed they could stop the lessons and relocate the guns. The wife said she had been unaware of how serious the charges were, and that her husband made the decision to take p.o.s. in, and she would respect it. I.E. ATI speak for "submit".

I am camping with my family, and I just really need to go heave a log on the fire, and not think about this.

There are a lot of people supporting him that seem totally unaware of the severity of it. There’s no way I’d bring him into my home. I hope those people don’t have grandkids. Time to find a new piano teacher too. How are you supposed to keep him away from minors when he’s allowed to go to church? Do all the kids have to stay home? As long as Anna’s in the pew too it’s ok? 

Edited by Sneezyone
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I wouldn't want him so much as looking at my children ever again. I am so worried she is going to be foolish about this. Praying she sees the light.

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Some of the testimony today stated that Josh said other family members had access to the devices

on the one hand...he could have just answered a question that was posed to him (does anyone else have access)

on the other hand, he could be established a trail of doubt

and in my biggest fears...he is NOT the only one who accessed the CSA images from the devices.

he should go home and say goodbye to his kids and then turn himself back in. No one should be responsible for him. He should plead guilty. I know this won’t happen.

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3 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

what pieces of S**t these people are.  

Sigh. I should not respond and go enjoy the campfire, but I am so riled up inside.

They are all p.o.s. This is what I have been trying to tell people for years. ATI people make Sciencetology people, David Koresh people appear normal. The buy in to the most medieval mindsets is an all or nothing thing, and children are just something no one in this whole religion gives a sh$t about. Try try to make it look so wholesome, so special for everyone to look at from the outside, but the inside is so damn grotesque it is beyond the imagination of most of you. I just don't know what to say anymore except make sure you do everything you can to keep anyone you know from falling in love with ATI/IBLP and Bill Gothard/Doug Wilson. 

I stand by my statement that the children should be taken away from her. I am not backing down from that. I really don't care what others think about it either!

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2 minutes ago, pinball said:

Some of the testimony today stated that Josh said other family members had access to the devices

on the one hand...he could have just answered a question that was posed to him (does anyone else have access)

on the other hand, he could be established a trail of doubt

and in my biggest fears...he is NOT the only one who accessed the CSA images from the devices.

he should go home and say goodbye to his kids and then turn himself back in. No one should be responsible for him. He should plead guilty. I know this won’t happen.

Except, supposedly law enforcement checked and he was the only one working at the times the material was accessed/downloaded. They have the exact times and dates. 

He was just trying to throw someone else, anyone else, under the bus. 

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