Goldcrest Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Just now, lauraw4321 said: Is the hearing over? Will charges really not be revealed until the bond hearing? The hearing is over. His lawyer requested the charges not be read aloud on the Zoom call. I do not know if another release will detail the charges later. I don't know anything about how the US system works really. Hopefully someone here does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbcdeDooDah Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 16 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said: Between freejinger and Duggar TikTok I’m laughing so hard my cat is looking at me weird and I’m pretty sure I’ve busted a surgical stitch in my shoulder. I suspect they’ve known it was coming and it’s related to the 2019 federal raid on his car lot. I also suspect(which I posted on FJ) that Derick isn’t running to offer his brother in law free legal advice. Do you follow mrskickstand on TikTok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Tiggywinkle Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Just now, AbcdeDooDah said: Do you follow mrskickstand on TikTok? Yes. Also garnet2020 is a hilarious Michelle impersonator. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldcrest Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 It's what we thought it was. I do not even want to type it. Twitter has the charges, you can go look. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Tiggywinkle Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 They’ve come out and confirmed it’s receiving and possessing child porn. 26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 15 minutes ago, scholastica said: I’m going to quibble with the phrase “took up with”. Maybe kidnapped and committed crimes against would be a more accurate description. I’m sorry that happened in a family you knew. Oh I completely agree with you. On this board I try to temper strong words because I know some boardies have had to endure trauma and some words might trigger those memories. It’s always difficult to know how to phrase things-I don’t want to minimize what the victim went through but also don’t want to hurt anyone. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildflowerMom Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Omg. I hope someone gets those kids in counseling. I want to punch JB, Michelle, and Josh in the face. If Anna knew, the kids have to be taken away. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippymamato3 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said: They’ve come out and confirmed it’s receiving and possessing child porn. Oh Lord. That poor family...Anna's family I mean. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted April 30, 2021 Author Share Posted April 30, 2021 Under the age of 12. 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Please, fellow pray-ers, join me in prayer that Anna will leave, shake the dust off her feet, and find whatever help she and her children need. 39 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauraw4321 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 1 minute ago, MercyA said: Please, fellow pray-ers, join me in prayer that Anna will leave, shake the dust off her feet, and find whatever help she and her children need. I will pray for that, and be shocked if it does happen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said: I will pray for that, and be shocked if it does happen. Surely she has to know without a shadow of a doubt now that her children are not safe with him. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldcrest Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Two years. They waited two years to indict him. And all the while he had access to gobs of children. 1 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Holmesschooler said: Two years. They waited two years to indict him. And all the while he had access to gobs of children. WTH? WHY??? ETA: Wait, couldn't they have determined that he had it two years ago without knowing about it until recently? Edited April 30, 2021 by MercyA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Just now, MercyA said: Surely she has to know without a shadow of a doubt now that her children are not safe with him. Sadly, with what she has been taught it is her fault as she was not a good enough wife for this to happen. We can only hope she realizes the situation and/or CPS keeps a close eye on it and maybe that makes her realize. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted April 30, 2021 Author Share Posted April 30, 2021 The wait is because the feds don’t arrest or prosecute anyone until they’re sure they can convict. He’ll be in prison until all his children are grown. 14 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Holmesschooler said: Two years. They waited two years to indict him. And all the while he had access to gobs of children. My understanding is that the family knew about the subject of the investigation. So, for all this time... 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Holmesschooler said: Two years. They waited two years to indict him. And all the while he had access to gobs of children. It takes awhile to handle these types of charges and built a tight case. Edited April 30, 2021 by itsheresomewhere 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldcrest Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, MercyA said: WTH? WHY??? ETA: Wait, couldn't they have determined that he had it two years ago without knowing about it until recently? The indictment states 2019. They raided his auto lot in 2019. I know it takes time to build a case. But I cannot get past that they left children accessible to him for 2 years. Edited April 30, 2021 by Holmesschooler 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Just now, Carrie12345 said: My understanding is that the family knew about the subject of the investigation. So, for all this time... It sounds like they knew about the money laundering investigation as the lawyer they hired is for that. I would expect some other charges to come out later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbcdeDooDah Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 If Anna knew about the investigation and joyfully announced a pregnancy a few days ago, she likely believes he is innocent and that it was someone else, or whatever gaslighting Josh told her. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartString Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Do we know if his own children were involved or just “children”? Not that one is really better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 11 minutes ago, MercyA said: Surely she has to know without a shadow of a doubt now that her children are not safe with him. Don't assume that. Some people would be willing to believe a person who seeks out child porn would only do so for other people's children, not their own. 5 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldcrest Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Just now, Homeschool Mom in AZ said: Don't assume that. Some people would be willing to believe a person who seeks out child porn would only do so for other people's children, not their own. That is insane! They're children! I don't care whose children. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Tiggywinkle Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said: It sounds like they knew about the money laundering investigation as the lawyer they hired is for that. I would expect some other charges to come out later. The lawyer they hired specialized in money laundering. I have to wonder if the family thought it was financial until today. JB is a lot of things, but he’s not stupid, and I expect he’d find someone who specialized in criminal defense of sex crimes if he knew that’s what it was. Also, his lawyers will have advised him to plead not guilty. That’s standard. I wouldn’t read anything into a not guilty plea. Edited April 30, 2021 by Mrs Tiggywinkle 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said: If Anna knew about the investigation and joyfully announced a pregnancy a few days ago, she likely believes he is innocent and that it was someone else, or whatever gaslighting Josh told her. He plead not guilty, so he's denying it to her and everyone else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Just now, Holmesschooler said: That is insane! They're children! I don't care whose children. Yes, it is insane. That's the level of denial some people in this world have going on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted April 30, 2021 Author Share Posted April 30, 2021 This isn’t the kind of thing he could accidentally stumble into, right? He sought it out, not browsed his way into it without knowing what it was, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Tiggywinkle Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Katy said: This isn’t the kind of thing he could accidentally stumble into, right? He sought it out, not browsed his way into it without knowing what it was, correct? So I know nothing about downloading porn. On FJ some are saying it’s possible to download massive files of porn and have some cp mixed in unknowingly. With his history though, I doubt that’s the case, though apparently it is possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said: If Anna knew about the investigation and joyfully announced a pregnancy a few days ago, she likely believes he is innocent and that it was someone else, or whatever gaslighting Josh told her. The timeline of the events in the indictment coincide with the raid on his auto sales business and the subsequent transfer of property out of Josh’s name and into Anna’s. Anna knew about the investigation, and yeah, maybe thought he was innocent. However, he had twice confessed to some pretty awful stuff - I pray this time she’ll take up her brother’s offer to leave the compound and start fresh. (He offered when the Ashley Madison scandal broke) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said: The lawyer they hired specialized in money laundering. I have to wonder if the family thought it was financial until today. JB is a lot of things, but he’s not stupid, and I expect he’d find someone who specialized in criminal defense of sex crimes if he knew that’s what it was. Addiction is expensive long term. Addicts need to get funding and legal means are not usually the way they go the deeper they sink. Sex addiction in whatever form needs funds the wife and business partners (if there are any) don't know about. Whose money (if anyone's) is being laundered raises other issues like potential intimidation of witnesses, juries, judges, etc. Edited April 30, 2021 by Homeschool Mom in AZ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartString Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Katy said: This isn’t the kind of thing he could accidentally stumble into, right? He sought it out, not browsed his way into it without knowing what it was, correct? The ease with which skilled people can plant this sort of stuff is pretty scary. It’s been the subject of many fiction books and TV shows. Dean Koontz wrote one years ago about something related but different and I’ve never felt so vicariously helpless and terrified. Almost made me want to run away to live off grid. But given his prior history I think it’s pretty safe to think it was probably something he did on purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 49 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said: Guess that says it all. Frankly, while I don’t excuse Josh at all, I also wish his parents could be held criminally responsible. When they refused to get Josh real, therapeutic help as a teenager, they destroyed more than just his life. (Again, I’m not making excuses for him in the least, but his parents bear some responsibility here.) Just like I wish the Pearl's could be held accountable for the deaths that happened by those using his "parenting techniques". Something apparently in early years M openly praised. 43 minutes ago, Katy said: Yuck. Maybe Anna will finally leave him when the full story comes out. I think for that to happen, she has to know it wasn't a failing on her part, and that she has options. These types of abusers like to keep them dependent so they feel like they can't leave. 36 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said: They’ve come out and confirmed it’s receiving and possessing child porn. gag me with a spork. 16 minutes ago, Holmesschooler said: Two years. They waited two years to indict him. And all the while he had access to gobs of children. building a case. Sometimes the waiting is infuriating. They just arrested Kristin Smart's murderer and his father as an accessory. The guy was the only/prime suspect for 25 years. sometimes different agencies don't talk to each other the way they should. 12 minutes ago, Holmesschooler said: The indictment states 2019. They raided his auto lot in 2019. I know it takes time to build a case. But I cannot get past that they left children accessible to him for 2 years. It's likely they raided the car lot for fraud - and the child stuff came up during the investigation as they went through the computers. Then it's finding out who else was aware of it, and where it came from. Best case scenario, they find out where it came from and are able to rescue the kids. 4 minutes ago, Holmesschooler said: That is insane! They're children! I don't care whose children. yes, it is insane. this is how abusers think. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 58 minutes ago, Holmesschooler said: It's all breaking, and says bond hearing will be May 5. Do they grant bonds in federal court for crimes against minors? Yes they do.....speaking from personal experience.😥 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 28 minutes ago, Holmesschooler said: Two years. They waited two years to indict him. And all the while he had access to gobs of children. That is super hard. I found out later my now ex husband was under investigation nearly 18 months. There is a LOT of work that has to go on behind the scenes of a case like this, especially with a high profile person. The case needs to be rock solid tight. Again, been there, done that. 3 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 17 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said: He plead not guilty, so he's denying it to her and everyone else. My ex is still denying everything 3+ years later...despite 4 federal convictions and a 90 year federal sentence....it is still the victims fault. 26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Ottakee said: My ex is still denying everything 3+ years later...despite 4 federal convictions and a 90 year federal sentence....it is still the victims fault. Is he admitting it happened, but blaming the victims? or claiming they have the wrong guy? abusers rarely see themselves as abusers. there was one case where the guy pled guilty (against his lawyers advice), and asked for the death penalty. He killed one kid, he didn't want to harm another child. I've never heard of a similar case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 1 minute ago, gardenmom5 said: Is he admitting it happened, but blaming the victims? or claiming they have the wrong guy? abusers rarely see themselves as abusers. there was one case where the guy pled guilty (against his lawyers advice), and asked for the death penalty. He killed one kid, he didn't want to harm another child. I've never heard of a similar case. He is claiming everything found on his computer was out there by the victims. I won't say more due to privacy of the victims 1 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH_Homeschooler Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 27 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said: Don't assume that. Some people would be willing to believe a person who seeks out child porn would only do so for other people's children, not their own. Or she had no idea he looked at it at all. It is entirely possible. I have read (speculation) that they found this by raiding his business, not his home. He may not have done it anywhere in her presence. If she even suspected anything, which she may not have, pedophiles are extremely manipulative. Very easy for them to smooth over anything that looks suspicious. And that's true when you're talking about a typical woman, not someone raised in a cult with no opportunities to think independently. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 4 hours ago, Quill said: I don’t think it’s right to say this. I’m sorry to call you out but whatever the situation is, there are at least seven children and one woman who are victims here. I have always felt sorry for Anna and her kids. I could have gone in a similar direction, having been raised with a similar culture. It *kills* me that she has permitted “god” to keep bringing more babies into this effed-up family and effed-up culture. Please, let us not glory in the fall of others, even if they seem to deserve it. And what I'm celebrating is that they will no longer be victimized by him. I'm not happy he got caught because I just don't like the guy or because I want him to be an awful person. I'm happy he got caught because I don't want him able to continue to abuse and use his wife (and potentially kids) any longer. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. I'm not delighting in him being terrible, but in him having to face justice, and be taken away where he can't hurt them anymore. 46 minutes ago, MercyA said: Please, fellow pray-ers, join me in prayer that Anna will leave, shake the dust off her feet, and find whatever help she and her children need. Definitely praying. Domestic abuse is always terrible, but it adds a whole other sickening layer when it is justified by Jesus. I hope ALL those impacted by ATI find freedom, and a faith community that doesn't abuse them. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldcrest Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 16 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said: Just like I wish the Pearl's could be held accountable for the deaths that happened by those using his "parenting techniques". Something apparently in early years M openly praised. I think for that to happen, she has to know it wasn't a failing on her part, and that she has options. These types of abusers like to keep them dependent so they feel like they can't leave. gag me with a spork. building a case. Sometimes the waiting is infuriating. They just arrested Kristin Smart's murderer and his father as an accessory. The guy was the only/prime suspect for 25 years. sometimes different agencies don't talk to each other the way they should. It's likely they raided the car lot for fraud - and the child stuff came up during the investigation as they went through the computers. Then it's finding out who else was aware of it, and where it came from. Best case scenario, they find out where it came from and are able to rescue the kids. yes, it is insane. this is how abusers think. Why for heavens sake would the US Department of Homeland Security give two figs what some tiny auto lot in BFE Arkansas was doing, even if it was fraud. That does not seem right. That seems more like a state level case, but then I don't know this type of thing, so perhaps. But I would think if the Federal Government of the USA went chasing every little tiny small business fraud, they would be overrun. My, perhaps incorrect, assumption was that this had big written all over it from 2019. Homeland Security seems like the big dogs to call out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH_Homeschooler Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, Ottakee said: He is claiming everything found on his computer was out there by the victims. I won't say more due to privacy of the victims These men can justify everything, right? Everything has a good explanation. 🙄 (As you know, I've got my own ex so I'm saying this based on my own experiences dealing with him). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Question - if there is evidence of s*xual abuse against minors, would that be a different jurisdiction? I'm wondering if that is NOT a federal crime, so not seeing those charges in the indictment doesn't mean they may not be coming. Just a thought. It's hard to imagine he was around THAT MANY kids, has a known history of s*x abuse against his own sisters, is currently found to be seeking out what the indictment found, and HASN'T touched any of those kids. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Holmesschooler said: Why for heavens sake would the US Department of Homeland Security give two figs what some tiny auto lot in BFE Arkansas was doing, even if it was fraud. That does not seem right. That seems more like a state level case, but then I don't know this type of thing, so perhaps. But I would think if the Federal Government of the USA went chasing every little tiny small business fraud, they would be overrun. My, perhaps incorrect, assumption was that this had big written all over it from 2019. Homeland Security seems like the big dogs to call out. there's "fraud" (the type you're thinking of, which would not generally be worth HS's time) - and then there's across state lines (or international borders), money laundering, fraud. usually part of a group. (which would also pay for his 'addiction' - you don't get those images for free.) eta: and the comments (on news sites as well) about how he looks drugged and/or drunk in his mug shot. Edited April 30, 2021 by gardenmom5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said: Don't assume that. Some people would be willing to believe a person who seeks out child porn would only do so for other people's children, not their own. And in her circumstances it may be easier for her to tell herself he’s being “persecuted” and taking that as evidence of his “godliness” 🙄. Honestly, she’s probably going to need some serious deprogramming. Those poor kids. I’d like to kick her in the teeth for getting pregnant again, but realistically she may not have been given a choice in the matter (ie, denied access to BC, brainwashed to never tell him no, etc). Edited April 30, 2021 by Forget-Me-Not 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, ktgrok said: Question - if there is evidence of s*xual abuse against minors, would that be a different jurisdiction? I'm wondering if that is NOT a federal crime, so not seeing those charges in the indictment doesn't mean they may not be coming. Just a thought. It's hard to imagine he was around THAT MANY kids, has a known history of s*x abuse against his own sisters, is currently found to be seeking out what the indictment found, and HASN'T touched any of those kids. Federal charges are because it is on a computer and considered commerce that crossed state lines. Federal charges also carry much stiffer penalties. In my ex husbands case they went federal and after that conviction dropped the local charges. Edited April 30, 2021 by Ottakee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldcrest Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Are the assets that the couple held then subject to forfeiture? As in, can the court seize all of the assets leaving Anna Duggar with nothing if he is found guilty? How does that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Holmesschooler said: Are the assets that the couple held then subject to forfeiture? As in, can the court seize all of the assets leaving Anna Duggar with nothing if he is found guilty? How does that work? Are any of the assets even in their names? I know JimBob used to have very tight control over the money. And would Anna’s name even be on anything? If they wanted to be sure she never left Josh, she might not even have her name on a bank account or a credit card. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippymamato3 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Holmesschooler said: Are the assets that the couple held then subject to forfeiture? As in, can the court seize all of the assets leaving Anna Duggar with nothing if he is found guilty? How does that work? I think yes, the assets could be frozen. Maybe even before being found guilty because they could all be spent down if they waited. Edited April 30, 2021 by hippymamato3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, Holmesschooler said: Are the assets that the couple held then subject to forfeiture? As in, can the court seize all of the assets leaving Anna Duggar with nothing if he is found guilty? How does that work? They can be. I was in great risk of that. The courts will try to leave the family protected in these cases. It is a fine dance. My divorce had to be finalized before conviction for my assets to be protected. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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