Josh Duggar was arrested today

[Faith-manor]

20 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

At some point the kids are going to realize that the FIRST one who writes the tell-all book will make bank.  After that, subsequent books will generate much less buzz.  I predict we see one of these within 5 years.

I think it will be Jill and Derrick. They don't really have anything to lose, and everything to gain. Jeremy and Jinger have their freedom without the nastiness of Jchele directed at them, and they have decent income as well. Jessa and Ben have not shown much inclination to differ from the ATI plan.

But Anna is the one who pretty desperately needs the income from a book deal.

[ktgrok]

My literal first reaction was, "hot diggity!"

I had a crap day (nothing big, just cramps, kids not cooperating, etc) and this made up for all of it. 

[MercyA]

.

Edited April 30, 2021 by MercyA

[Fritz]

I had no idea these people were still a thing. I assume this is one of the kids grown up and repeating the televised life thing?? Never understood the fascination with the FOO. Doesn't sound like they had a good outcome.

[ktgrok]

And...in other "sex pest news" it seems more evidence has emerged against Matt Gaetz, a local to me lawmaker who is accused of sex with a minor. Evidence, as in a confession letter he sent, along with an offer of bitcoin bribery, to try to get a pardon before the election. 

This day is fantastic. May justice prevail. 

And Anna get a freaking break. 

[lauraw4321]

This and the possible break in the Delphi murders have ruined my productivity today. 

[Katy]

27 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

This and the possible break in the Delphi murders have ruined my productivity today. 

Well I missed that one entirely.

[Katy]

Don't mind me...  Just trying really hard to not make an inappropriate joke about how "the storm" seems to be sweeping up members of the wrong party...

[katilac]

52 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

And...in other "sex pest news" it seems more evidence has emerged against Matt Gaetz, a local to me lawmaker who is accused of sex with a minor. Evidence, as in a confession letter he sent, along with an offer of bitcoin bribery, to try to get a pardon before the election. 

No, he didn't write the letter, his running buddy did. Joel Greenburg. 

[Resilient]

I never knew anything about the Duggars but reading this thread reminds me in a BIG way of my time watching soap operas. Except it seems almost over the top for a soap opera...  (channeling Erica Kane)

[DawnM]

12 hours ago, Annie G said:

I hope it’s not child porn.  I mean, I’m fine with them tossing him in jail for a few decades, but I feel for the victims and his kids.

I think the mugshot looks like a combo of drunk/high and smug.

that was my first thought.

[DawnM]

9 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I’m hoping that she will use this opportunity to leave him and start a new life with her children. She could probably start a GoFundMe and raise enough money to have her legal expenses paid for within hours.

 I can’t help but worry that she might actually love that idiot, though. 

It has to do with their culture.   Divorce is unheard of, women rely on men and are not independent, and if the man screws up, you must have done something wrong.   remember when Josh went to that "camp" through their cult to "rehabilitate" after it came out he molested his sisters?

I firmly believe he has sexual addiction issues and needs serious help.   And he could get that in jail most likely.   

But I don't know if Anna will ever leave the cult and actually get the help she and the kids need.

[lauraw4321]

7 hours ago, Katy said:

Well I missed that one entirely.

I won’t link because the story is too horrific, but google person of interest Delphi. 

[Wheres Toto]

8 hours ago, ktgrok said:

And...in other "sex pest news" it seems more evidence has emerged against Matt Gaetz, a local to me lawmaker who is accused of sex with a minor. Evidence, as in a confession letter he sent, along with an offer of bitcoin bribery, to try to get a pardon before the election. 

This day is fantastic. May justice prevail. 

And Anna get a freaking break. 

 

7 hours ago, katilac said:

No, he didn't write the letter, his running buddy did. Joel Greenburg. 

A buddy makes more sense.  I couldn't figure out how anyone could be stupid enough to send a written confession and bribery offer.  

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, Wheres Toto said:

 

A buddy makes more sense.  I couldn't figure out how anyone could be stupid enough to send a written confession and bribery offer.  

it does...although Matt Gaetz does seem that dumb. 

But I heard about it at midnight half asleep, from DH, so must have misunderstood. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, ktgrok said:

My literal first reaction was, "hot diggity!"

I had a crap day (nothing big, just cramps, kids not cooperating, etc) and this made up for all of it. 

I don’t think it’s right to say this. I’m sorry to call you out but whatever the situation is, there are at least seven children and one woman who are victims here. 
I have always felt sorry for Anna and her kids. I could have gone in a similar direction, having been raised with a similar culture. It *kills* me that she has permitted “god” to keep bringing more babies into this effed-up family and effed-up culture. 
Please, let us not glory in the fall of others, even if they seem to deserve it. 

[Guest]

@Ottakee, I have always been amazed by your bravery in facing your situation. I admire you so much. 

[Katy]

2 minutes ago, Quill said:

I don’t think it’s right to say this. I’m sorry to call you out but whatever the situation is, there are at least seven children and one woman who are victims here. 
I have always felt sorry for Anna and her kids. I could have gone in a similar direction, having been raised with a similar culture. It *kills* me that she has permitted “god” to keep bringing more babies into this effed-up family and effed-up culture. 
Please, let us not glory in the fall of others, even if they seem to deserve it. 

It may not be the most tasteful comment, but I’m glad too. I can feel some sympathy for Anna, and feel terrible for those innocent children, and still be glad that the guy who was directing a dominionist lobbying organization, who was arguing gay marriage is destroying families and America while simultaneously beating up strippers, and who molested his 5 year old sister among other victims, is finally facing some justice. 

[Carrie12345]

7 minutes ago, Katy said:

It may not be the most tasteful comment, but I’m glad too. I can feel some sympathy for Anna, and feel terrible for those innocent children, and still be glad that the guy who was directing a dominionist lobbying organization, who was arguing gay marriage is destroying families and America while simultaneously beating up strippers, and who molested his 5 year old sister among other victims, is finally facing some justice. 

Agreed. When the alternative is allowing a violator to remain free and potentially continue whatever atrocities they’ve been committing... yeah, I’ll be happy he’s taken away. And still feel terrible for the impact of HIS ACTIONS on his wife and kids.

[HeartString]

I'll admit to having a small amount of sympathy for him.  Not much, but a small amount.  The men in those cults aren't being raised normal either. It's more obvious with the girls, but it's screwing up the boys too.  If he had grown up normal instead of in a fertility cult, if he had gotten real treatment when he first showed signs of struggling, if he had had some bit of control over his own life, maybe he wouldn't have ended up like this.  Now it's too late, whatever it is is too ingrained to do anything but jail him for the protection of others.  But he was a sweet little boy once,who was messed up by a cult and cult member parents. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by HeartString

[Hyacinth]

11 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

Oh good grief, I hope he didn't beat up another stripper.  Fundie Fridays should be good this week, Without a Crystal Ball probably already has 3 videos posted about this, and the Dugger Snark subreddit must be on fire.  I got my Pandemic PhD in cults and the Duggers and their ilk came up a few times.  The Leaving Eden podcast did an episode on the Duggers where they did mention the whole Ashley Madison debacle, but that podcast is mostly about the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist cult.

If he goes to prison maybe Anna will have a birth control loophole.  Ugh, if they had arrested him just a little bit sooner she could have had a break between pregnancies.

I love this.

[gardenmom5]

11 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I’m hoping that she will use this opportunity to leave him and start a new life with her children. She could probably start a GoFundMe and raise enough money to have her legal expenses paid for within hours.

 I can’t help but worry that she might actually love that idiot, though. 

I doubt she knows she has options, or even a clue as to what they are.  After all, if you keep them ignorant, they're more likely to stay.  I hope she will finally take her brother's offers of help to get out.  It will be hard for her in the short term (and JB and M come across as the types that will make sure it's hard for her if she tries to leave), but in the long term her children will be better off.

she's been trained to think staying by her husband, no matter what, is what a good (godly) wife does - even if he's committed (what most other Christian churches) would consider serious sins.

on other sites - the rumors are he's operating his dealership illegally.  (it was raided in 2019) I could imagine that's what triggered the original raid, but I can't see that, in itself, as being serious enough to get him a no-bail hold.   Though if he got into drugs (re: all the suppositions he looks high in his mug shot), and especially if he got into  dealing/importing (across state lines?  or even from mexico) - that will get him serious federal time.   Feds don't tend to arrest someone until they're confident they're going to win the case.

Edited April 30, 2021 by gardenmom5

[Carrie12345]

1 minute ago, HeartString said:

I'll admit to having a small amount of sympathy for him.  Not much, but a small amount.  The men in those cults aren't being raised normal either.  If he had grown up normal instead of in a fertility cult, if he had gotten real treatment when he first showed signs of struggling, if he had had some bit of control over his own life, maybe he wouldn't have ended up like this.  Now it's too late, whatever it is is too ingrained to do anything but jail him for the protection of others.  But he was a sweet little boy once,who was messed up by a cult and cult member parents. 

I feel like it’s a horrible, horrible shame that he used his access to “worldly” information to harm and betray people instead of using it to... I don’t know how to phrase it.  Using it like some of his sisters have, to build a non-deviant life that isn’t fully restricted by their upbringing?
Though, even while saying that, I recognize that there’s got to be an additional layer of psychological issue that broke to that direction.  It isn’t as though that upbringing has doomed them all to awful actions.  Trauma, sure.  Universal outcome, no.

[Faith-manor]

28 minutes ago, Quill said:

I don’t think it’s right to say this. I’m sorry to call you out but whatever the situation is, there are at least seven children and one woman who are victims here. 
I have always felt sorry for Anna and her kids. I could have gone in a similar direction, having been raised with a similar culture. It *kills* me that she has permitted “god” to keep bringing more babies into this effed-up family and effed-up culture. 
Please, let us not glory in the fall of others, even if they seem to deserve it. 

Nope sorry. Katie is right. About damn time. If you understood this cult, then you would understand that it is actually in the children's best interest that their father is hopefully going to prison, and it provides an opportunity for her and those kids to get out IF her family will get off their butts and help. She can't do it without a big assist up.

She is not wrong. ATI is a wicked, horrible, evil cult, and when one of its prime poster families gets publicly taken down, I am happy about it because it could literally save some others. It could be a wake up call. It might be the very thing that convinces some Duggar grandkids to NOT live in the cult in adulthood. 

[HeartString]

5 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I feel like it’s a horrible, horrible shame that he used his access to “worldly” information to harm and betray people instead of using it to... I don’t know how to phrase it.  Using it like some of his sisters have, to build a non-deviant life that isn’t fully restricted by their upbringing?
Though, even while saying that, I recognize that there’s got to be an additional layer of psychological issue that broke to that direction.  It isn’t as though that upbringing has doomed them all to awful actions.  Trauma, sure.  Universal outcome, no.

Universal no, of course not.  I just keep thinking about that he was kid when he did those things to his sisters and he got no treatment.  And I know the pressures put on the oldest and on the oldest boy especially in those cults.   Someone with his issues, oldest male in a fertility cult, with no treatment, is like the planets aligning just so to create a really bad outcome.  It's hard not to think about how if things had lined up differently maybe he ends up a regular cult member who isn't struggling with this, or maybe he breaks away and leads a normal conservative life.   Just having some sympathy for the people who grew up brainwashed in this way. 

[pinball]

People can research for themselves but the terms chi1d p0rn and k1dd1e porn are considered to diminish and trivialize the abuse, trauma and crime.

More appropriate terminology is child abuse images and child sexual abuse images.

[Faith-manor]

Heartstrings has a point about his mentality. The ATI cult is more than just a fertility cult, it is a true sex cult. Girls are raised to believe they are the temptresses simply for being born female, and boys are raised to believe that they are nothing but sex baboons with no self control, and no need to exercise it. Girls are the gate keepers, boys are the gate crashers, all sexual thoughts and attractions are sin that the girls cause, and the goal is to get married young and then subject the female to whatever the male wants whenever he wants it, and perversions are to be tolerated by the married female. Believe me, Jbob and Chele would not have cared two hoots about Josh's Ashley Madison habit if it had not bit their family firmly in the butt in the public eye, and according to ATI counseling materials, that is all Anna's fault anyway. Even his molestations of his sisters was not his fault and it should be noted that the three sisters were srnt to the ATI re-training camp here in Michigan for their own punishment in the matter. In ATI, it is the victim's fault for being tempting, too pretty, alone in the room with their own brother, you name it.

It is a sex slavery cult, and girls are raised to eventually become the next sex slaves as well as bearing the responsibility of preserving the reputations of their masters, and there is hell to pay for "falling down on the job". It produces the most mind boggling dysfunction like Jessa announcing after the molestation came out, that she would never allow Ben to change any of their future children's diapers so he would not be tempted by his own babies! Think about that. She didn't stop to even think, " Gee, if I think my husband might be sexually aroused by changing his own baby's diaper, I should probably get the hell away from him, take my child and go." In her mind, assuming a "godly man" is aroused by his own child, and then being the "gate keeper" by trying to take away a parental responsibility was the proper, normal response.

I am sure that Josh, no matter what the impropriety, be it financial, other criminal, or the possibility of the worst that our minds are going to, feels exactly zero responsibility. He has been raised in a cult where sin is always "Eve's" fault. Now that said, I believe with my whole heart that the wicked, disgusting ass absolutely knows right from wrong. He works in a secular business, he has access to viewpoints not of his cult, and hears the news, knows the law. There is not one thing that absolves him or causes me to have the slightest sympathy. At some point, adults have to get over the " but I was abused, but I lived in a cult, but my parents taught me, but this woman you gave me made me do it" mind set, and either do what is right or take the damn consequences. Maybe there are reasons, but for certain there are NO excuses. And so am sure no one here is seeking to defend him at all. It is important how this is all framed in the public eye so neither Josh nor ATI weasel out of the public scorn needed to hopefully continue scrutiny of the cult. This happened with old Bill Gothard for caught with his hand where it didn't belong. Too much psychologizing about what caused it and such, not enough righteous anger at what he did, and the furor died down too soon, and then next thing you know, old Bill was up to tricks again. Hopefully, being federal charges, Josh and company won't be able to skate. I would do a happy dance if JimBob ended up nailed to the wall too.

[pinball]

It is possible to have sympathy for the children of an incarcerated person while simultaneously thinking the person is rightly and justly in prison.

dependent children suffer and have a worse quality of life when their caregivers are jailed. It even continues after the person is released, in part (but not only) due to stigma involving having a criminal record and the ability to find a job.

[TechWife]

52 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

I doubt she knows she has options, or even a clue as to what they are.  After all, if you keep them ignorant, they're more likely to stay.  I hope she will finally take her brother's offers of help to get out.  It will be hard for her in the short term (and JB and M come across as the types that will make sure it's hard for her if she tries to leave), but in the long term her children will be better off.

she's been trained to think staying by her husband, no matter what, is what a good (godly) wife does - even if he's committed (what most other Christian churches) would consider serious sins.

on other sites - the rumors are he's operating his dealership illegally.  (it was raided in 2019) I could imagine that's what triggered the original raid, but I can't see that, in itself, as being serious enough to get him a no-bail hold.   Though if he got into drugs (re: all the suppositions he looks high in his mug shot), and especially if he got into  dealing/importing (across state lines?  or even from mexico) - that will get him serious federal time.   Feds don't tend to arrest someone until they're confident they're going to win the case.

I don’t  assume the charges are related to the business of his car dealership. It’s possible that evidence of other wrongdoing was located at the dealership in an attempt to hide it from family and others. Federal officials can easily trace IP addresses to locations. It is also possible that the entire dealership was a “front” for other activity. Unfortunately this speculation opens up many different scenarios in my mind, all of them horrific. 

[gardenmom5]

4 minutes ago, TechWife said:

I don’t  assume the charges are related to the business of his car dealership. It’s possible that evidence of other wrongdoing was located at the dealership in an attempt to hide it from family and others. Federal officials can easily trace IP addresses to locations. It is also possible that the entire dealership was a “front” for other activity. Unfortunately this speculation opens up many different scenarios in my mind, all of them horrific. 

I don't assume it was because the dealership was allegedly illegal (which could mean anything from not being properly licensed to being a front for something else.) either.  an improper license wouldn't have generated a no bail hold.  News reports have said they're related - so I would assume in the process of searching they found something else.

[Carrie12345]

I don’t want to quote because I’m beyond disgusted but... diaper changes are considered problematic?!?!  That puts an entirely new spin on things for me.

[Faith-manor]

7 minutes ago, TechWife said:

I don’t  assume the charges are related to the business of his car dealership. It’s possible that evidence of other wrongdoing was located at the dealership in an attempt to hide it from family and others. Federal officials can easily trace IP addresses to locations. It is also possible that the entire dealership was a “front” for other activity. Unfortunately this speculation opens up many different scenarios in my mind, all of them horrific. 

Agreed. Computers. It often comes down to computers and even if they get seized for one thing like financial shenanigans, they often reveal other things. I have seen this happen so many times, like the local police officer whose home computer got seized because of a suspected illegal financial dealing, and evealed illegal arms dealing. Bye bye officer, Monopoly has sent you to jail, and you don't collect $200.

[Faith-manor]

3 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I don’t want to quote because I’m beyond disgusted

Yes. And in ATI materials they also caution mothers that fathers should not participate in potty training because that is an area of temptation, and should the child be molested, again mom's fault for not making husband stay away from the potty training. It is one whacked out, messed up, sex cult.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Faith-manor

[Katy]

Guys there’s no bail because he hasn’t seen a judge yet. He’s scheduled to at 11 am today, after which we’ll probably have more news. 

In order for Homeland security to be involved it’s not the simple crimes he’s committed before. It isn’t molestation, rape, assault or battery. It’s interstate or international fraud, human or child trafficking, or possibly child porn. 

[gardenmom5]

18 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I don’t want to quote because I’m beyond disgusted but... diaper changes are considered problematic?!?!  That puts an entirely new spin on things for me.

I guess I don't want to know . . . . 

14 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Yes. And in ATI materials they also caution mothers that fathers should not participate in potty training because that is an area of temptation, and should the child be molested, again mom's fault for not making husband stay away from the potty training. It is one whacked out, messed up, sex cult.

sickening.

 

We have a local case where they seized all the computers. . . .  daddy was a voyeur and went straight to jail.  Even though "daddy" wasn't who the police were investigating.  They were investigating his adult son who lived with him.  (the adult son eventually blew himself up.)

[HS Mom in NC]

Remember, international posters and posters from areas where most non-homescoolers personally know typical homeschoolers, that the most famous homeschoolers in the US are the Duggars.  It's not unusual for American homeschoolers to keep an eye on the major issues going on with the Duggars so they can be prepared to address perceptions of homeschooling that influence non-homeschoolers.  Depending on where you live in the US, it's not assured non-homeschoolers are personally exposed to typical homeschoolers. For some people, the only homeschoolers they "know" are Duggars.

There's all the difference in the world between feeling pity for child Josh Duggar and adult Josh Duggar.  Child Josh had no control over anything and was subjected to adults who consistently made things dramatically worse by systematically searing his conscience against any personal responsibility for his actions.  Talk about being ill-equipped for life!  Adult Josh is a free man in the world with an adult brain that is perfectly capable of seeing how his childhood reality does not match up to his current adult reality in our civil society he lives in.  Both of those things can exist at the same time.  I assume people feeling for Josh are feeling for that little boy whose formative years were destroyed by the cult.

Anna Duggar is the result of a likely agreeable/compliant/pleaser personality + a poor education + isolation + financial dependence + steeped in toxic waste of a fertility cult that actively victimizes females from the day they're born to the day they die or leave.  The deck is stacked against her on leaving. Legalism is a cult with many subcategories. All legalists seek metaphorical stages and spotlights.  Optics are their preferred form of idolatry. They always care more about outward appearance than inner reality and are willing to sacrifice others to get it. That's why cults and their true believer enthusiastic cult members with any power (JB and Michelle) make it so hard to leave. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Homeschool Mom in AZ

[Ottakee]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

@Ottakee, I have always been amazed by your bravery in facing your situation. I admire you so much. 

Thank you for your kind words.

[HeartString]

7 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

  I assume people feeling for Josh are feeling for that little boy whose formative years were destroyed by the cult.

Yes, I think that’s a better of putting it.  Not so much sympathy for adult Josh necessarily just sadness that this cult is destroying so many lives.  It’s easier to see the destruction in the women and girls but it’s hurting the boys and men to be part of it too. Cults destroy lives, it’s what they do.  

[AbcdeDooDah]

II could be wrong but I heard the "no bail" hold was because he was in a local jail waiting to be transferred to the feds. 

I hope to God it's not anything to do with children. I also hope if it is related to children  that Anna had no idea about it, because if she did and purposely got pregnant . . .

[Katy]

6 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

II could be wrong but I heard the "no bail" hold was because he was in a local jail waiting to be transferred to the feds. 

I hope to God it's not anything to do with children. I also hope if it is related to children  that Anna had no idea about it, because if she did and purposely got pregnant . . .

He was arrested by the US Marshalls in cooperation with Homeland. He was just kept in a local jail until he can see a judge today.

[Catwoman]

I keep wondering what he did!

Ok, “allegedly”did. 😉 

[Goldcrest]

Any minute now we should know. 

[Annie G]

I feel bad that my first thought was that it’s some kind of sex crime, but then I thought ya know, maybe he shouldn’t live his life in a way that makes people default to ‘sex crime’ when he’s arrested.  Molesting his sisters, molesting a family friend, the whole Ashley Madison thing...the guy just screams ‘troubled’.  I hope it’s a financial crime. But that he still gets a stiff sentence.
@Ottakee I admire how you’ve handled your situation.  DD’s bestie’s dad took up w a 13 year old and flew her out of state to an apartment and well, of course he’s in jail for decades now. His wife and kids had so much support and I don’t know anyone who blamed or shamed the wife.  I wish you’d had the same support. 

[scholastica]

6 minutes ago, Annie G said:

I feel bad that my first thought was that it’s some kind of sex crime, but then I thought ya know, maybe he shouldn’t live his life in a way that makes people default to ‘sex crime’ when he’s arrested.  Molesting his sisters, molesting a family friend, the whole Ashley Madison thing...the guy just screams ‘troubled’.  I hope it’s a financial crime. But that he still gets a stiff sentence.
@Ottakee I admire how you’ve handled your situation.  DD’s bestie’s dad took up w a 13 year old and flew her out of state to an apartment and well, of course he’s in jail for decades now. His wife and kids had so much support and I don’t know anyone who blamed or shamed the wife.  I wish you’d had the same support. 

I’m going to quibble with the phrase “took up with”. Maybe kidnapped and committed crimes against would be a more accurate description.
I’m sorry that happened  in a family you knew. 

[Goldcrest]

From Twitter (not linking because I am not sure if this breaks the photos rule). 

 

COURT ENDED: #BREAKING -- #JoshDuggar pleads NOT GUILTY to "charges" but we don't know the charges yet. The judge said Duggar must live with a 3rd party if bond is granted that "has no minors living in the home."

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

5 minutes ago, Holmesschooler said:

From Twitter (not linking because I am not sure if this breaks the photos rule). 

 

COURT ENDED: #BREAKING -- #JoshDuggar pleads NOT GUILTY to "charges" but we don't know the charges yet. The judge said Duggar must live with a 3rd party if bond is granted that "has no minors living in the home."

Guess that says it all.

Frankly, while I don’t excuse Josh at all, I also wish his parents could be held criminally responsible.  When they refused to get Josh real, therapeutic help as a teenager, they destroyed more than just his life. (Again, I’m not making excuses for him in the least, but his parents bear some responsibility here.)

Edited April 30, 2021 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Carrie12345]

Ugh. It’s one thing to figure, and another to know. 🤢 

[Goldcrest]

It's all breaking, and says bond hearing will be May 5. 

Do they grant bonds in federal court for crimes against minors? 

[Katy]

Yuck.  Maybe Anna will finally leave him when the full story comes out. 

[lauraw4321]

Re-read: "Court ended." So no official word on charges. But I saw about the no minors because of the "nature of the charges."

Edited April 30, 2021 by lauraw4321