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Josh Duggar was arrested today


Katy
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Not sure if anyone's posted this link yet. Sorry - this thread is hard to keep up with. These podcasts are long but there is no video so you can do other things while you listen. This is the guy who did the AMA on the subreddit that @MercyA linked on one of these threads. His family began attending the Duggar's home church around 2005. He was there for the "sin in the camp" thing. Frankly, hearing about that made me feel bad for Josh. Blaming teenage Josh for their crazy friend losing the senatorial election because Josh saw p#rn (no indication that it was child p#rn) is a terrible thing to do to a teenage boy. He did terrible things as an adult but all of this began when he was a child and his family never even tried to get him any help. 

 

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22 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

They likely all were. They were followers of the Pearls also.

Lest your memory be short, a decade or so ago here on these boards people were supportive of the Pearls and their methods. 2006-2010–I would have said the boards leaned towards the Pearls, Duggars, Vision Forum, Maxwells, and other more extreme evangelical families. 
 

The more moderate culture shift over the last decade is what has precipitated the board departures here....some en masse...in protest. 🤦

I'm not wanting to pick a fight, but to clarify because I'm confused. I may be reading you entirely wrong, and if so, please let me know! But it seems to me that you're saying that the people who left the boards here recently would have supported the Pearls, Duggars, et al?

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1 hour ago, Momto6inIN said:

I'm not wanting to pick a fight, but to clarify because I'm confused. I may be reading you entirely wrong, and if so, please let me know! But it seems to me that you're saying that the people who left the boards here recently would have supported the Pearls, Duggars, et al?

I remember when there were quite a number of people who leaned that way.  In fact, I'm still having trouble wrapping my mind around the shift in board demographics that has occurred over the past ten years or so.

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1 hour ago, Momto6inIN said:

I'm not wanting to pick a fight, but to clarify because I'm confused. I may be reading you entirely wrong, and if so, please let me know! But it seems to me that you're saying that the people who left the boards here recently would have supported the Pearls, Duggars, et al?

No,  these were people here in the 2000 decade, not now.   And the people who were defending the Duggars was way before we knew about Josh harming his sisters and some other people.   As to the Pearl;s, I never read anyone who defending beating infants- most who defended the books just decided that other aspects were good.   

 

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5 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

No,  these were people here in the 2000 decade, not now.   And the people who were defending the Duggars was way before we knew about Josh harming his sisters and some other people.   As to the Pearl;s, I never read anyone who defending beating infants- most who defended the books just decided that other aspects were good.   

 

Yes, and to be fair, many people changed their minds about the Pearls as soon as they found out that their recommendations regarding child discipline  included beatings. 

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7 minutes ago, EKS said:

I remember when there were quite a number of people who leaned that way.  In fact, I'm still having trouble wrapping my mind around the shift in board demographics that has occurred over the past ten years or so.

I think there’s a lot more people here for academic reasons and less choosing homeschooling to isolate their children from the evil world. 

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4 minutes ago, Katy said:

I think there’s a lot more people here for academic reasons and less choosing homeschooling to isolate their children from the evil world. 

I’ve been here since 2009-2010 I believe.  The board demographics have shifted, but I think it represents a significant shift in homeschooling demographics.

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21 hours ago, MercyA said:

And some of us have changed since joining the boards. 

Yup. Much to my embarrassment, I still remember a thread wherein I defended the Duggar girls’ future and suggested, “Maybe they will open a catering service. They have complete capability of cooking for fifty or more people!” @Faith-manor was like, “No they will not! You do not get it! They will never be permitted to do something like that!”

She was right, though. I was the dummy. 

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2 minutes ago, Quill said:

Yup. Much to my embarrassment, I still remember a thread wherein I defended the Duggar girls’ future and suggested, “Maybe they will open a catering service. They have complete capability of cooking for fifty or more people!” @Faith-manor was like, “No they will not! You do not get it! They will never be permitted to do something like that!”

She was right, though. I was the dummy. 

Don’t blame yourself, Quill. We just didn’t know back then. We had no experience with that kind of “religion,” so we had no clue how bad it was.

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Before it came out that Josh had abused his sisters, I remember knowing many people who were sympathetic to the Duggars even if they would never live like them. I think many conservative Christians were enamored of the Duggars' hard core lifestyle. I knew plenty of families who said that they would not let their kids date. If you want cringeworthy, watch those videos of Josh talking about keeping his heart pure by not kissing Anna before marriage. 

I was reminded of this a few months ago when I realized that I knew one of the federal judges who threw out one of the Trump lawsuits. I remembered making a joke about the Duggars to his wife and she got offended. 

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3 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Before it came out that Josh had abused his sisters, I remember knowing many people who were sympathetic to the Duggars even if they would never live like them. I think many conservative Christians were enamored of the Duggars' hard core lifestyle. I knew plenty of families who said that they would not let their kids date. If you want cringeworthy, watch those videos of Josh talking about keeping his heart pure by not kissing Anna before marriage. 

I was reminded of this a few months ago when I realized that I knew one of the federal judges who threw out one of the Trump lawsuits. I remembered making a joke about the Duggars to his wife and she got offended. 

I don't think it's only the Duggars that are the reason people are moving away from that culture.  They started courting because of that book, and the couple ended up divorcing and leaving Christianity.  It seems like quite a lot of people 40 & under raised ultra conservative have lost their faith as adults. It seems that sort of child raising doesn't work the way so many people assumed it would.

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20 minutes ago, Katy said:

I don't think it's only the Duggars that are the reason people are moving away from that culture.  They started courting because of that book, and the couple ended up divorcing and leaving Christianity.  It seems like quite a lot of people 40 & under raised ultra conservative have lost their faith as adults. It seems that sort of child raising doesn't work the way so many people assumed it would.

I've never been a Protestant but I saw this stuff (courtship instead of dating, the Pearls, fixation on "male headship," etc) start to show in my world (Roman Catholic and Orthodox Christian) in the early 2000s. The tiny bookstore at our old Orthodox parish sold the How to Train Up a Child book. 

I didn't mean to suggest that it was only because of the Duggars. In fact, I don't think the Duggars themselves had a big impact on it. From my observation, things were already starting to crumble before 2016 but the election was the end for many people followed up by the dangerous response to COVID in many Christian circles. 

 

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52 minutes ago, Katy said:

I don't think it's only the Duggars that are the reason people are moving away from that culture.  They started courting because of that book, and the couple ended up divorcing and leaving Christianity.  It seems like quite a lot of people 40 & under raised ultra conservative have lost their faith as adults. It seems that sort of child raising doesn't work the way so many people assumed it would.

This is very, very true on our area. This kind of very strict, obsessive, oppressive religious stuff is having a hard time now. Milennials and then Z are bolting. Even the local Amish who have the greatest chance of keeping them because they are so isolated and undereducated, are losing some of their youth. The kids are banding together to live in tight, cheap rentals, taking whatever jobs they can get, and enrolling in community college after studying for their GED's. The % not staying is the highest it has ever been. My mother in law had an Amish young lady, about 22, who never married that she hired for household help. Granny is fully vaccinated now and so after this year long pandemic break, mailed her a note asking if she would be able to come back. The note came back from a sibling indicating that she had saved enough of her wages - she worked for several homes - that she was able to leave the sect. At least she got to keep the money she earned, unlike the Duggar girls!

 

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2 hours ago, Katy said:

I don't think it's only the Duggars that are the reason people are moving away from that culture.  They started courting because of that book, and the couple ended up divorcing and leaving Christianity.  It seems like quite a lot of people 40 & under raised ultra conservative have lost their faith as adults. It seems that sort of child raising doesn't work the way so many people assumed it would.

Folks will always fail when they focus on a set of rules, legalism, and thou shalts. Religion sucks. Faith - now that’sa while other ball of wax and any Christian who isn’t humbled by the fact that they fall short of where they should be just, I think, lacks clear understanding of sin and grace. Yeah, hypocrisy gets ugly results. 

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It has never been hard to leave the Amish church. People left in every generation, as many as 50%. And, while they typically go only to 8th, they are bilingual and their 8th grade is better than what many kids get. And if they want more education, it is possible to go on. My own grandmother attended 9th grade at the local high school 80 years ago. It was the high school who decided the Amish girl didn't need Algebra and other courses she wanted to take. She stopped after 9th because of the school. Her dad was fine with her attending.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Meriwether said:

It has never been hard to leave the Amish church. People left in every generation, as many as 50%. And, while they typically go only to 8th, they are bilingual and their 8th grade is better than what many kids get. And if they want more education, it is possible to go on. My own grandmother attended 9th grade at the local high school 80 years ago. It was the high school who decided the Amish girl didn't need Algebra and other courses she wanted to take. She stopped after 9th because of the school. Her dad was fine with her attending.

I wish the 8th grade education for Amish in this are was decent. It is not the same across communities. The local community is so strict on what can be studied and to what level that it really is only about a 6th grade education in English/reading, and Math, exceptionally limited in history, no formal science, but German is studied at advanced levels. Some of the Amish that have left are paying for tutoring with the teacher of the Mennonite K8 one room schoolhouse that uses Christian Light curriculum in order to get caught up enough to take high school work and study for the GED.

Edited by Faith-manor
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17 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

Folks will always fail when they focus on a set of rules, legalism, and thou shalts. Religion sucks. Faith - now that’sa while other ball of wax and any Christian who isn’t humbled by the fact that they fall short of where they should be just, I think, lacks clear understanding of sin and grace. Yeah, hypocrisy gets ugly results. 

This is beautifully stated.  Thank you.

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Sorry to chime back in so late...yes, I was referring to a long time ago.

To be fair, back then I was in skirts and buns, cloth diapering, and quiverful myself. :) I grew up in a community with a lot of Dunkard/German anabaptists. I truly have nothing against anyone in that list of characteristics that I gave above. I was merely pointing a shift in dynamics on the board. 
 

I do think there is a shift across many things in society. When I was home last summer their bishop was allowing neon floral prints and some of the unmarried women were working as pharmacy techs or restaurant workers in the community. That was unheard of in 2000. 

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13 hours ago, Quill said:

Yup. Much to my embarrassment, I still remember a thread wherein I defended the Duggar girls’ future and suggested, “Maybe they will open a catering service. They have complete capability of cooking for fifty or more people!” @Faith-manor was like, “No they will not! You do not get it! They will never be permitted to do something like that!”

She was right, though. I was the dummy. 

 

13 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Don’t blame yourself, Quill. We just didn’t know back then. We had no experience with that kind of “religion,” so we had no clue how bad it was.

Yup.
I’ve always been a left-wing atheist, but I was still a little taken in when the whole Duggar thing started. I was a homeschooler with a normal-big family in a little house and a desire to get more basic and less materialistic.   Of course I’m attracted to extreme examples because, if they can swing it, there’s no way I can’t, lol.

Learning about ATI/Pearls/etc. here did help me to gain some perspective. More and more as time went on.

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54 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

 

Yup.
I’ve always been a left-wing atheist, but I was still a little taken in when the whole Duggar thing started. I was a homeschooler with a normal-big family in a little house and a desire to get more basic and less materialistic.   Of course I’m attracted to extreme examples because, if they can swing it, there’s no way I can’t, lol.

Learning about ATI/Pearls/etc. here did help me to gain some perspective. More and more as time went on.

I get this. When my youngest was a toddler, he was so amazingly difficult. At the time, I like to watch John and Kate Plus 8. All her little kids were potty training. I watched the show for a similar reason to what you said and it brought me comfort. I didn’t yet know all the craziness that is Kate Gosslin, but the show did help me face the next day. If she could survive with six toddlers and a set of twins, I could get through it with my one stinker. 

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17 hours ago, Quill said:

Yup. Much to my embarrassment, I still remember a thread wherein I defended the Duggar girls’ future and suggested, “Maybe they will open a catering service. They have complete capability of cooking for fifty or more people!” @Faith-manor was like, “No they will not! You do not get it! They will never be permitted to do something like that!”

She was right, though. I was the dummy. 

To be fair, they did do some jobs.   I remember the episodes where they were working with EMT, and then one or two of them became midwives.....so it wasn't out of the question for them to work.   I think a couple of them still work, although I haven't kept up with them recently.

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13 hours ago, Meriwether said:

It has never been hard to leave the Amish church. People left in every generation, as many as 50%. And, while they typically go only to 8th, they are bilingual and their 8th grade is better than what many kids get. And if they want more education, it is possible to go on. My own grandmother attended 9th grade at the local high school 80 years ago. It was the high school who decided the Amish girl didn't need Algebra and other courses she wanted to take. She stopped after 9th because of the school. Her dad was fine with her attending.

I think of it being hard in terms of being excommunicated.   Losing your support and your families ties IS hard.

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16 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Before it came out that Josh had abused his sisters, I remember knowing many people who were sympathetic to the Duggars even if they would never live like them. I think many conservative Christians were enamored of the Duggars' hard core lifestyle. I knew plenty of families who said that they would not let their kids date. If you want cringeworthy, watch those videos of Josh talking about keeping his heart pure by not kissing Anna before marriage. 

I was reminded of this a few months ago when I realized that I knew one of the federal judges who threw out one of the Trump lawsuits. I remembered making a joke about the Duggars to his wife and she got offended. 

Oh yes,  About the whole marriage thing.  I remember that people were shocked that we didn't have plans to monitor our children's partner choices.  In fact, I often explained how it made absolutely no sense in our case=  children go to college not near our house and what way do we have to monitor anything? But there was that whole anti-dating stuff.  

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, DawnM said:

I think of it being hard in terms of being excommunicated.   Losing your support and your families ties IS hard.

Leaving isn't being excommunicated. And they don't lose their families unless there are other issues. I got a ride in my Great-uncle Tobe's horse and buggy as a child when he visited my grandpa when were there. I have been invited for dinner in the home of a chance met 3rd cousin in a state I have never lived. Seriously, I said my grandpa was the youngest son of ___________, and she said, "Oh, you must be Bill and Rosie's granddaughter." It didn't matter that they had left the Amish church. Many do. My grandpa's funeral was about half Amish in attendance.

 

Oops. I have in fact lived in that state. It was over the border from the people we were staying with. But I had no previous acquaintance with my 3rd cousin and the previous generations hadn't had contact in 50 years.

Edited by Meriwether
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6 minutes ago, Meriwether said:

Leaving isn't being excommunicated. <snip> It didn't matter that they had left the Amish church. 

I was under the impression that leaving before taking church vows might be okay, but joining and then leaving resulted in shunning. Is this incorrect?

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23 minutes ago, JumpyTheFrog said:

I was under the impression that leaving before taking church vows might be okay, but joining and then leaving resulted in shunning. Is this incorrect?

I guess I thought that leaving meant shunning.   Interesting.

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1 hour ago, Meriwether said:

Leaving isn't being excommunicated. And they don't lose their families unless there are other issues. I got a ride in my Great-uncle Tobe's horse and buggy as a child when he visited my grandpa when were there. I have been invited for dinner in the home of a chance met 3rd cousin in a state I have never lived. Seriously, I said my grandpa was the youngest son of ___________, and she said, "Oh, you must be Bill and Rosie's granddaughter." It didn't matter that they had left the Amish church. Many do. My grandpa's funeral was about half Amish in attendance.

 

Oops. I have in fact lived in that state. It was over the border from the people we were staying with. But I had no previous acquaintance with my 3rd cousin and the previous generations hadn't had contact in 50 years.

A lot depends on the pressures of the local community. It isn't homogenous even though we think for them this way. The local leadership is absolutely draconian with the rules, and there are a lot of problems within the community because of it. Some groups are. A bit more relaxed and the word gets around so the ones that want to.be the strictest live together while the more relaxed are together. The local group is so darn strict that it staggers the imagination, and they just love a good shunning which is pretty off putting for the young folks. But, when we lived in Goshen, Indiana, the Amish were way more easy going. Their young folks, hilariously, often had radios in their buggies and listened to secular music. It was kind of hysterical to pull up to a stop sign behind an Amish buggy and here the oldies station playing from the buggy! And we had some great conversations with their young folks that would never happen here. Shoot, if their teens even spoke to us, they'd face a beating. The local leaders are just wretched, and the sheriff says there is a lot of domestic violence. So it can be quite varied. Unfortunately, due to the horrendous attitudes and the way the locals treat their wives and children, they have very, very bad reputation here.

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39 minutes ago, DawnM said:

I guess I thought that leaving meant shunning.   Interesting.

So, all of this will depend on the community a bit. Leaving before joining th church - no shunning. Leaving after, depends. Some will hold the letter of the law but not the spirit - so not eat at the same table might be a rule - so some would not invite them to a meal, others would have a separate table, etc. 

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1 hour ago, Meriwether said:

Leaving isn't being excommunicated. And they don't lose their families unless there are other issues. I got a ride in my Great-uncle Tobe's horse and buggy as a child when he visited my grandpa when were there. I have been invited for dinner in the home of a chance met 3rd cousin in a state I have never lived. Seriously, I said my grandpa was the youngest son of ___________, and she said, "Oh, you must be Bill and Rosie's granddaughter." It didn't matter that they had left the Amish church. Many do. My grandpa's funeral was about half Amish in attendance.

 

Oops. I have in fact lived in that state. It was over the border from the people we were staying with. But I had no previous acquaintance with my 3rd cousin and the previous generations hadn't had contact in 50 years.

Thank you so much for posting your firsthand experiences and knowledge about all of this, Meriwether — I have learned a lot!

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5 hours ago, DawnM said:

To be fair, they did do some jobs.   I remember the episodes where they were working with EMT, and then one or two of them became midwives.....so it wasn't out of the question for them to work.   I think a couple of them still work, although I haven't kept up with them recently.

Yes, but from my understanding, they aren’t “allowed” to work in a setting where they could be in authority over males. So, midwifery is acceptable. 

I remember an EMT episode where they re-engineered the uniform pants into a skirt. 🙄

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, JumpyTheFrog said:

I was under the impression that leaving before taking church vows might be okay, but joining and then leaving resulted in shunning. Is this incorrect?

My husband's Amish grandmother left the church with her husband. They became Mennonites and she still wore a cape dress and covering. Her sisters shunned her to the point of being unwilling to visit her when she was on her deathbed. 😞 (She did see angels before she passed, which was a comfort to her during that hard time.)

My husband's Amish mother and her husband also left the church. They were NOT shunned, at least not by their families. When we all get together for large extended family gatherings today, most people are "English" (some attend mainstream Mennonite churches), some are conservative Mennonites with coverings, and a few are still Amish.

ETA: One of my friends from our co-op is Amish, and I've pulled up to her house before to see her little boys in shorts and graphic tees. Shhh... 😉 

Edited by MercyA
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Quill said:

Yes, but from my understanding, they aren’t “allowed” to work in a setting where they could be in authority over males. So, midwifery is acceptable. 

I remember an EMT episode where they re-engineered the uniform pants into a skirt. 🙄

Yes. I remember seeing a photo of that.

One of the things they are totally against too is any career where the female would be alone with another male. Of course that means paramedicine is out because shifts and partners are not gender segregated. Locally, it has been a fairly male dominated field much like fire and law enforcement so our daughter had far more male partners than female, and it was pretty much a no worries kind of thing. But we were criticized by local non ATI/Vf fundies for "allowing" her to go into the profession. Of course we stared at them like they had two heads and just peeled their faces to reveal their lizard status because the whole thought of telling our daughter that we did not allow her as a legal adult to go into paramedicine was just nutty! But, many of these extreme fundies are against them becoming nurses, medics, accountants, IT professionals, you name it, any career in which they might not work practically exclusively with females thus the cottage industry stuff like flower arranging and wedding cakes without store fronts and professional quarters where they would go to work without chaperones or customer face with men.

Edited by Faith-manor
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19 minutes ago, Quill said:

Yes, but from my understanding, they aren’t “allowed” to work in a setting where they could be in authority over males. So, midwifery is acceptable. 

I remember an EMT episode where they re-engineered the uniform pants into a skirt. 🙄

I remember that episode too.   

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4 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Yes. I remember seeing a photo of that.

One of the things they are totally against too is any career where the female would.be alone with another male. Of course that means paramedicine is out because shifts and partners are not gender segregated. Locally, if has been a fairly male dominated field much like fire and law enforcement so our daughter had far more male partners than female, and it wad pretty much a no worries kind of thing. But we were criticized by local non ATI/Vf fundies for "allowing" her to go into the profession. Of course we stared at them like they had two heads and just peeled their faces to reveal their lizard status because the whole thought of telling our daughter that we did not allow her as a legal adult to go into paramedicine was just nutty! But, many of these extreme fundies are against them becoming nurses, medics, laaccountants, IT professionals, you name it, any career in which they might not work practically exclusively with females thus the cottage industry stuff like flower arranging and wedding cakes without store fronts and professional quarters where they would go to work without chaperones or customer face with men.

I can't believe you let your good Christian daughter peek at man bits!  

I think if I were young and starting out, I'd have a home improvement/repair business comprised entirely of females.  It seems there's a decent customer base out there of women who prefer not to have strange men in their homes when their husbands are out.  I don't even live in fundie land and I think there'd be plenty of work for a small team.

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6 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I can't believe you let your good Christian daughter peek at man bits!  

I think if I were young and starting out, I'd have a home improvement/repair business comprised entirely of females.  It seems there's a decent customer base out there of women who prefer not to have strange men in their homes when their husbands are out.  I don't even live in fundie land and I think there'd be plenty of work for a small team.

Snicker snicker, ya lots of naughty bit, but not in exactly the steamy kind of circumstances! 😂😂😂

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3 hours ago, DawnM said:

I remember that episode too.   

Do you remember the episode where they sought to “prove” they didn’t segregate chores according to gender and michelle taught the boys to wash clothes and the girls were out chopping down a tree or something. What I remember as so hilarious about that is that Michelle was telling the boys something about sorting laundry and she said, “Separate out their hose...” and one of the little boys did not understand that term and said “Hose?!?” It just couldn’t have been more obvious that the boys had no understanding of clothing and laundering them. 

(Funnily enough, I never had my teen son launder my teen dd’s clothes or vice versa, because there’s a lot of potentially personal info communicated in the laundry...) 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Quill said:

Do you remember the episode where they sought to “prove” they didn’t segregate chores according to gender and michelle taught the boys to wash clothes and the girls were out chopping down a tree or something. What I remember as so hilarious about that is that Michelle was telling the boys something about sorting laundry and she said, “Separate out their hose...” and one of the little boys did not understand that term and said “Hose?!?” It just couldn’t have been more obvious that the boys had no understanding of clothing and laundering them. 

(Funnily enough, I never had my teen son launder my teen dd’s clothes or vice versa, because there’s a lot of potentially personal info communicated in the laundry...) 

I do remember that one.  Jim Bob taught the girls to change a tire.   

My boys have done their own laundry since the age of 9 when they had to have a 30 day chore list for a Cub Scout requirement.   Laundry was one of the chores I had them do.

Edited by DawnM
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My grandparents weren't even crazy as re: religion, but my grandma insisted that lighting the fireplace was "man's work."  Never mind that grandpa had palsy and lighting the fire was an act of near-arson, with his shaking hands.  But she just would not do it.

These really were NORMAL people.  

The world how she do turn.

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1 hour ago, Resilient said:

My grandparents weren't even crazy as re: religion, but my grandma insisted that lighting the fireplace was "man's work."  Never mind that grandpa had palsy and lighting the fire was an act of near-arson, with his shaking hands.  But she just would not do it.

These really were NORMAL people.  

The world how she do turn.

Not so unusual - my grandmother was remarkably feminist for her generation. After birthing eleven children, she returned to college when the baby was four. However, my grandfather, who really was one to pitch in around home, never had a clue which was the washer and which was the dryer!

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Posted (edited)

I have always insisted that splitting firewood is mans work. as did my mother and many of her age and older. I have met older women who say that splitting wood with an axe interferes with the ability to conceive, including woman who never were able to have children. I know my mother blames chopping wood on miscarriage. 

 

Dh agrees that f there are teen boys or men that are able around than a women shouldn't have to split wood.

Edited by Melissa in Australia
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11 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

I do, and I want it to be men's work.

(but I'm lazy like that.)

Men do have greater upper body strength than women. 

No need to pretend away actual physical differences. If a task is going to take twice as much effort for me to accomplish as it would for my husband or son to accomplish I'd rather let them do it. 

I actually like physical work and do plenty of it; I also like being efficient though and me splitting wood is not an efficient use of effort.

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1 hour ago, Farrar said:

I just don't live in a world where anyone has to split any wood. 

 

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

I do, and I want it to be men's work.

(but I'm lazy like that.)

Yep it’s mostly a make chore round here.  Though a lot of people have log splitters.   oldest DS also does the fire lighting and is way better at it than I am (I just don’t have the time to baby it for 20 minutes ....)

I am ok with somewhat gender based roles as long as they suit the people involved.  If not then chuck them out and do what works!  

 

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5 hours ago, Farrar said:

I just don't live in a world where anyone has to split any wood. 

😆

My kids are getting wood-splitting lessons this year, lol.

I know it’s veered off topic, but I’ve actually worried a lot about *accidentally insinuating gendered chores. My oldest ds spent more overall time at his bio dad’s than here as a teen, so my younger sons have witnessed their sisters and me doing VASTLY more household chores than their brother or father.
(Oldest ds does do plenty of everything - he only has brothers at his dad’s.) The little boys were a bit later to start independent chores, since the rest of us already had our own “groove”, yk?  Plus, I’ve always been a sahm while dh has always worked. Fortunately, they’ve seen us do plenty of other stuff, and they don’t seem to have gotten the wrong message.

As far as fires, I’m happy to leave the indoor fireplace to dh.  Outdoor fires are where I shine, but he usually beats me to it and I get annoyed. 12+ years of Girl Scouts here!

One of my dd’s first EMT training calls was for a completely naked man having a bad heroin ride, so...
That leads me to wonder, what is the Duggaresque take on male first responders dealing with women? Dd recently had a completely naked woman to tend to, with the help of male responders.
There’s an awful lot of nakedness in emergency services!

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5 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

I do, and I want it to be men's work.

(but I'm lazy like that.)

Same. 

We have a wood-burning furnace that heats our water. I’m grateful for the monetary savings, but it is a lot of work and must be maintained a couple times a day. 

Once, early into our wood-furnace ownership, dh was going away for a weekend and was instructing me on maintaining the fire. “...And then check this temperature meeter and if it is below 160*, add another of these huge logs, and make sure it sits in the center on top of the ash or it won’t burn...” And I just said, “Honey, no. I cannot do all this. Please switch over to oil heat for the weekend and switch it back when you return.” So that’s what we do. I never maintain the wood furnace or chop wood. I burn fossil fuels in his absence and never look back. 

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2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

😆

My kids are getting wood-splitting lessons this year, lol.

I know it’s veered off topic, but I’ve actually worried a lot about *accidentally insinuating gendered chores. My oldest ds spent more overall time at his bio dad’s than here as a teen, so my younger sons have witnessed their sisters and me doing VASTLY more household chores than their brother or father.
(Oldest ds does do plenty of everything - he only has brothers at his dad’s.) The little boys were a bit later to start independent chores, since the rest of us already had our own “groove”, yk?  Plus, I’ve always been a sahm while dh has always worked. Fortunately, they’ve seen us do plenty of other stuff, and they don’t seem to have gotten the wrong message.

As far as fires, I’m happy to leave the indoor fireplace to dh.  Outdoor fires are where I shine, but he usually beats me to it and I get annoyed. 12+ years of Girl Scouts here!

One of my dd’s first EMT training calls was for a completely naked man having a bad heroin ride, so...
That leads me to wonder, what is the Duggaresque take on male first responders dealing with women? Dd recently had a completely naked woman to tend to, with the help of male responders.
There’s an awful lot of nakedness in emergency services!

Around here the ATI folks preach against their own getting any medical training, both male and female, so they can remain righteous and not encounter these situations. Then of course when the need arises, want their medics, doctors, nurses, physical therapists, you name it. So I think it is a lot like other ridiculous rather closed religious communities...let the heathen do the dirty work and we will take advantage of it, but darn it all, we are the more righteous folks because we don't let our young participate in those careers. Neener neener! I have seen that with the local fundie nutter church. They are 100% against this level of education or participation in the world for their own, but then use EMS, hospitals, you name it all the live long day hoping the unrighteous have studied long and hard to save their lives. The pastor of the one church won't let his eldest daughter study math or science beyond 9th grade so she can be the eternal stay at home daughter and tells everyone else not to let their sons and daughters go to college, but then his profoundly developmentally delayed 7 year old attends developmental preschool and has hours of therapy a day paid for by the evil gubmint and provided by people with master's degrees in their subject material while his wife births their babies at the hospital, and when one of their kids broke her leg - nasty compound fracture - called 911 and male medics tended her. So.....your basic gigantic hypocrisy.

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