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Josh Duggar was arrested today


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26 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Other than Josh and--I wouldn't doubt--Gothard himself, who has lied? Dissembling does seem very likely given their teachings.

I know it looks like I am defending the Duggars. I *am not*. Following similar teaching (Babywise, for example) is one of the major regrets of my life. They are wrong, wrong, wrong in many ways. But this board has a standard for information and I see a lot of speculation and "I read it on a message board"-type sourcing here. 

Very few people are all-monster or all-perfect.

For one, JB&M told their children that the tv shows were a ministry and paid them nothing for their time or likenesses. This is what D. Dillard said he and his wife were told on SM. JB&M said they sent their son to counseling that included no actual counseling. It was hard labor and deprivation and a discussion with an off-duty LEO. This was in the initial police reports that were released years ago. The Vuolos have a separate TLC contract. The Seewalds do as well. The others do not. There’s no evidence that any of them is honest and forthright. They make their livings, by and large, from TV. This arrest just stepped all over Jinger’s book release too. Even the Dillards had ‘issues’ related to their ministry work in South America. They’re all gonna go broke without the ‘image’. It’s like the gang that can’t shoot straight.

Edited by Sneezyone
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1 hour ago, MercyA said:

Other than Josh and--I wouldn't doubt--Gothard himself, who has lied? Dissembling does seem very likely given their teachings.

I know it looks like I am defending the Duggars. I *am not*. Following similar teaching (Babywise, for example) is one of the major regrets of my life. They are wrong, wrong, wrong in many ways. But this board has a standard for information and I see a lot of speculation and "I read it on a message board"-type sourcing here. 

Very few people are all-monster or all-perfect.

Jim Bob and Michelle released a statement after the search warrant was executed in 2019, saying that to the best of their knowledge nobody in their family was under investigation. Clearly a lie. 
 

I don’t believe Jill and Jessa were speaking freely during the Megyn Kelly interview- and their words were straight from JB. Things like ‘we got counseling’.

 

Not related to a lie, but I thought the unrelated friend Josh molested was after they knew about what he did to his sisters. I may be wrong, but I thought the sisters’ incidents led to a stern talking to and then the incident with a family friend led to him being sent to ‘work’ with a friend of JB’s.

Edited by Annie G
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Keep in mind that "he confessed" doesn't mean he didn't get caught first. In their parlance, a confession is what you do as part of the process of forgiveness. It can be AFTER you get busted.

So him confessing doesn't mean that he did it out of the goodness of his heart. It certainly could have been, and I am almost certain was, after he was caught. 

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Was it ever determined who wrote the letter about Josh abusing his sisters and the friend, that was then placed in a book that was then passed onto someone else?

and who was that someone else?, bc that person was the one who called the police/abuse hotline

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The Daily Mail has an article about the couple who are taking JD into their home.   Their 22yo daughter teaches piano lessons at the home.  It sounds like she is unmarried since the article noted that their son is married...wouldn't this mean that the daughter is living with them, not just coming over when she's teaching?   I thought that single adult daughters remained with their parents?  

I don't understand how a man can knowingly bring someone like JD into the home where his wife and probably his daughter are living!   And it sounds like the judge was only concerned about what kind of internet connection they have and removing guns from the home.  

I'm scared for these women.  JD is a big guy, and I saw their photos...they're petite.   And now apparently unarmed.  

 

 

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1 minute ago, Laurie said:

The Daily Mail has an article about the couple who are taking JD into their home.   Their 22yo daughter teaches piano lessons at the home.  It sounds like she is unmarried since the article noted that their son is married...wouldn't this mean that the daughter is living with them, not just coming over when she's teaching?   I thought that single adult daughters remained with their parents?  

I don't understand how a man can knowingly bring someone like JD into the home where his wife and probably his daughter are living!   And it sounds like the judge was only concerned about what kind of internet connection they have and removing guns from the home.  

I'm scared for these women.  JD is a big guy, and I saw their photos...they're petite.   And now apparently unarmed.  

 

 

well seemingly, they aren't his female of choice,  Sorry but that is the only way I can imagine any sane person would allow a monster like him in their house.

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6 hours ago, hjffkj said:

it is in the same report.

[As for my first point, I stand corrected! See my post including photos of the police report on p. 11 of this thread.]

It looks clear from the report that the abuse of the family friend happened well after the prior incidents were confessed. What were they thinking, having friends sleep over after that?

Edited by MercyA
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Just now, MercyA said:

I skimmed it all and all I could find is that [redacted name] ran to tell mom and dad immediately after the touching of the 5-year-old. Josh's name is also redacted in the report. Based on what I read in the other interviews, it was Josh who ran and told his dad, not the child who told Jill. But it's possible I missed it--it is a long report. 

If someone else finds something different, please let me know. 

If you read it the way they talk about how Jim Bob describes it and the previous incidents it seems clear to me that Josh did not tell the parents but someone else did for that specific incident.  Or he was forced to tell them because he was caught in the act.

In the report, Jim Bob says with the first incidents that Josh came to them. But then when they describe the incident with the sister sitting his lap they don't specify that Josh went to them.  They only talk the facts that it happened, then she ran to someone else and told that person. 

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7 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I'm pretty sure I read the part of the report that you are talking about, and it just says that [someone] ran and told the parents right after it happened. It could have been the five-year-old, but it doesn't read that way to me.

You could be right that he was forced to tell them because he knew if he didn't one of the other kids would. The five-year-old was clearly aware of what was going on--in her interview she said it felt weird. 😞 

It was very bold of him to do it in front of so many other children. 

Everything JD has done is bold. Bold and in your face. The idea that he wouldn’t be bold when backed into a corner like this, even with his own kids and wife present, is insane to me.

Edited by Sneezyone
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2 hours ago, MercyA said:

Very few people are all-monster or all-perfect.

But some people ARE all monster.  We don't have enough information to know if he was born wired this way or if he was warped through extreme abuse, but however he got there he has reached the level of pure evil.  I was less sure of this until I found out the nature of the videos he was downloading.  He is irredeemably sick.

It just blows my mind that, despite his past crimes, they weren't even looking for HIM in this investigation.  They were just following the illegal files and they led the feds to his computer.  

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2 hours ago, MercyA said:

 

Very few people are all-monster or all-perfect.

There is a huge difference between people who are sincerely trying to do their best - and someone who just wants to look like they're doing their best.  (and then there are those who don't care how they look.)

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Keep in mind that "he confessed" doesn't mean he didn't get caught first. 

Good point.  Some confess because they feel remorse, other's confess because their hands were caught in the cookie jar and they think it will keep them out of trouble.

53 minutes ago, Laurie said:

The Daily Mail has an article about the couple who are taking JD into their home.   Their 22yo daughter teaches piano lessons at the home.   

I don't understand how a man can knowingly bring someone like JD into the home where his wife and probably his daughter are living!   

The wife didn't know what the real charges were until the hearing.  She said she didn't want him there, but the husband did (and she has no say.)
 

I'm willing to bet he's getting $$$ for having josh there.  Or least some bene's from ATI.

48 minutes ago, MercyA said:

  What were they thinking, having friends sleep over after that?

That if they ignored it - it would go away.

38 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

If you read it the way they talk about how Jim Bob describes it and the previous incidents it seems clear to me that Josh did not tell the parents but someone else did for that specific incident.  Or he was forced to tell them because he was caught in the act.

In the report, Jim Bob says with the first incidents that Josh came to them. But then when they describe the incident with the sister sitting his lap they don't specify that Josh went to them.  They only talk the facts that it happened, then she ran to someone else and told that person. 

Then the referring to Jill as a 'tattle-tale", and M saying jill "tells tales".   gee, how rough your life is that you're being made to face reality.

21 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

I honestly think this occurred as a pendulum swing away from the mid 20th century feminist movement. Kristin du Mez wrote about the phenomenon in Jesus & John Wayne, though I can’t remember if she mentioned Gothard/ATI specifically. 

 I think it's because bill gothard (oh that name) is a pervert and wanted to perv (and rape) with impunity. by founding a "religion" with followers, it gives him access to victims, and supporters. "you should be grateful for s3xual abuse because it makes you stronger." . . . . his boy bits belong in a garbage disposal.

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2 hours ago, MercyA said:

Other than Josh and--I wouldn't doubt--Gothard himself, who has lied? Dissembling does seem very likely given their teachings.

I know it looks like I am defending the Duggars. I *am not*. Following similar teaching (Babywise, for example) is one of the major regrets of my life. They are wrong, wrong, wrong in many ways. But this board has a standard for information and I see a lot of speculation and "I read it on a message board"-type sourcing here. 

Very few people are all-monster or all-perfect.

The biggest problem with this family to me is lack of discernment. I don’t have time to do a search and find out how many times we are warned in the New Testament to not be led astray, to use discernment, to watch out for false teachers.  There are many warnings.

But they never used any discernment with their cult. More than 60 girls and women have now accused Gothard of abuse. There are so many “sources” on these sites that say it’s more likely to be SA’s than not if you are a girl raised in this cult that it’s difficult to believe it isn’t just normal behavior in their world.  Which finally makes Jim Bob’s weird assertion in his interview with Kelly that SA is common and many families go through this make sense.  It still doesn’t explain why they didn’t leave the cult when they learned it was common.  There must have been some gut check there, they ignored it and sacrificed the health, safety, and well being of their daughters for one disgusting son. In some states they could go to jail for that.

They also appear to have missed the whole part about judging by the fruit. 

57 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I skimmed it all and all I could find is that [redacted name] ran to tell mom and dad immediately after the touching of the 5-year-old. Josh's name is also redacted in the report. Based on what I read in the other interviews, it was Josh who ran and told his dad, not the child who told Jill. But it's possible I missed it--it is a long report. 

If someone else finds something different, please let me know. 

It looks clear from the report that the abuse of the family friend happened well after the prior incidents were confessed. What were they thinking, having friends sleep over after that?

According to gossip from “church members” it went on for years.  He was also courting or betrothed to another girl before Anna.  The church rumor is that he assaulted that girl and the arrangement was off.  Frankly I wouldn’t be surprised if many more women come out at this point.  

I’ve also seen some references to Michelle giving a speech stating she agreed with a husband beating his wife until she stopped crying and moving if she was being disobedient. I haven’t had time to search for that video though. 

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Why does the police report give Jim Bob the voice? Why were they not questioning Josh? I mean, maybe Josh did tell his dad, or maybe his dad decided that was the story they were going to tell-that the kids weren’t really impacted because they were asleep and they have no memory of it.  But maybe they did know what was going on all along and were too scared to speak up, lest they be blamed for it. 
This whole things is just crazy- MULTIPLE episodes in 2002-2003. 
Anna knew about this before they were married. I can’t get past that. 

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32 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

But some people ARE all monster.  We don't have enough information to know if he was born wired this way or if he was warped through extreme abuse, but however he got there he has reached the level of pure evil.  I was less sure of this until I found out the nature of the videos he was downloading.  He is irredeemably sick.

It just blows my mind that, despite his past crimes, they weren't even looking for HIM in this investigation.  They were just following the illegal files and they led the feds to his computer.  

Yes. I believe ALL humans have dignity and worth, but admit I can't find it or see it in him. But even if I feel he has that, for his OWN sake, and that of his soul, he should be locked up for life, so he can't act on the sick impulses he has. 

I WISH Anna and others in that cult could see that by keeping him away from the kids they are protecting Josh from himself - maybe that would help them do the right thing, since protecting people FROM Josh doesn't seem to be of high value to them. 

 

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1 minute ago, Seasider too said:

I meant the movement in general, with regard to female submission being related to evangelical Christianity. Gothard may have been a “pioneer” in this movement, or just delighted to jump on the bandwagon, I don’t know. But he wasn’t alone in the birth of the neo-patriarchy era. Uber conservatives appalled by women’s lib were ripe for it.
 

You'll get no argument from me about his mental status. Warped. 

I thought he was just one of many, but ATI was his 'baby'.  Though I've read stories from other women who've left evangelical circles, who faced that type of mental and emotional abuse.  (one in particular who did get outside help to leave and took her kids with her.)  My grandmother leaned evangelical and definitely demonstrated sympathies in outlook.  

But I don't otherwise know that much about evangelists.  (I come from a conservative religion that is not evangelical, moms of young children are encouraged to stay home if they can because it (ideally) provides a stable environment for kids - but there's also the message to "get as much education as you can".)

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5 minutes ago, Annie G said:

Why does the police report give Jim Bob the voice? Why were they not questioning Josh? I mean, maybe Josh did tell his dad, or maybe his dad decided that was the story they were going to tell-that the kids weren’t really impacted because they were asleep and they have no memory of it.  But maybe they did know what was going on all along and were too scared to speak up, lest they be blamed for it. 
This whole things is just crazy- MULTIPLE episodes in 2002-2003. 
Anna knew about this before they were married. I can’t get past that. 

Because he was a minor and his father said no.

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3 minutes ago, Annie G said:

Why does the police report give Jim Bob the voice? Why were they not questioning Josh? I mean, maybe Josh did tell his dad, or maybe his dad decided that was the story they were going to tell-that the kids weren’t really impacted because they were asleep and they have no memory of it.  But maybe they did know what was going on all along and were too scared to speak up, lest they be blamed for it. 
This whole things is just crazy- MULTIPLE episodes in 2002-2003. 
Anna knew about this before they were married. I can’t get past that. 

Keep in mind this report occurred in northwest Arkansas circa 2005 and the events took place 2-3 years before. 20 years ago, when my family still lived there, unenlightened PTB were EVERYWHERE. The ‘talk’ with the off-duty LEO is what started the statute of limitations and what ultimately prevented prosecution. The LEO never reported it up the chain.

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3 hours ago, MercyA said:

Other than Josh and--I wouldn't doubt--Gothard himself, who has lied? Dissembling does seem very likely given their teachings.

I know it looks like I am defending the Duggars. I *am not*. Following similar teaching (Babywise, for example) is one of the major regrets of my life. They are wrong, wrong, wrong in many ways. But this board has a standard for information and I see a lot of speculation and "I read it on a message board"-type sourcing here. 

Very few people are all-monster or all-perfect.

I don’t think that anyone of them has a very firm commitment to truth.  Their entire life is built on various lies and deceptions.  They may well believe their own lies but that doesn’t mean they aren’t lying.  

I agree that few people are all-monster and I’d argue that no one is all-perfect but I don’t think that I can trust pretty much anything JB or Michelle say.  These are just not people bound by the truth.
 

ETA: my older brother is a person who is not at all bound by the truth and he believes his own lies.  Totally different type lifestyle from the Duggars but I recognize that fast and loose with the truth, say whatever you want to be true and ergo it is now true type of lying all too well.  My brother is not 100% monster but he has done many things that are monstrous in his life, including abuse and neglect his children + severely physically abuse his ex-wife + some other truly awful and violent crimes.  He is also intelligent, talented, funny and ridiculously charming.  Unfortunately, people like this don’t come with unmistakable warning labels.  I love my brother very much.  I also have next to no contact with him because I can’t subject my kids to his nonsense.  My contact with my brother is limited to sending him very occasional card in the mail now that his kids both have their own phones and contact me directly.  Usually if I check my blocked messages, there’s something there from him a couple times a year but I have conditioned any additional level of contact on drug and alcohol treatment and changes am reasonably sure that he will never make.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Yes. I believe ALL humans have dignity and worth, but admit I can't find it or see it in him. But even if I feel he has that, for his OWN sake, and that of his soul, he should be locked up for life, so he can't act on the sick impulses he has. 

I WISH Anna and others in that cult could see that by keeping him away from the kids they are protecting Josh from himself - maybe that would help them do the right thing, since protecting people FROM Josh doesn't seem to be of high value to them. 

 

proper boundaries allow people to be treated with the dignity and worth they deserve.  some people refuse all boundaries and cross them in a way that harms others.     enforcing those boundaries (by tossing him in prison to keep him away from potential victims) for the rest of his life - is actually treating him with respect.  It will prevent him from s3xually abusing another child.

His own parents are so concerned with appearance, they get in the way of proper boundaries regrading their deviant son.  Anna has been brainwashed and is entirely dependent upon JB for support for herself and her children.  The way they twist things to make wives responsible for their husbands s3xual transgressions doesn't bode well for her.  I wish the court would have put a third party as supervisor.

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2 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

proper boundaries allow people to be treated with the dignity and worth they deserve.  some people refuse all boundaries and cross them in a way that harms others.     enforcing those boundaries (by tossing him in prison to keep him away from potential victims) for the rest of his life - is actually treating him with respect.  It will prevent him from s3xually abusing another child.

His own parents are so concerned with appearance, they get in the way of proper boundaries regrading their deviant son.  Anna has been brainwashed and is entirely dependent upon JB for support for herself and her children.  The way they twist things to make wives responsible for their husbands s3xual transgressions doesn't bode well for her.  I wish the court would have put a third party as supervisor.

Yes! If heaven forbid I was doing something or might do something that would damage my kids or other people's kids like this, PLEASE lock me somewhere where I can't do that!!! If I am so sick in my brain that I don't have the ability or clarity to do that myself, I pray others would do it for me!

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8 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Yes! If heaven forbid I was doing something or might do something that would damage my kids or other people's kids like this, PLEASE lock me somewhere where I can't do that!!! If I am so sick in my brain that I don't have the ability or clarity to do that myself, I pray others would do it for me!

It's why I keep telling childhood abuse victims they *are* honoring their parents by refusing to allow their parents to abuse their own children.   

eta  westly allen dodd refused to appeal his death sentence (his lawyers were frustrated). He was adamant if he got out, he'd do it again. He stated all pedophiles and murderers should be put to death.

Edited by gardenmom5
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2 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

But some people ARE all monster.  We don't have enough information to know if he was born wired this way or if he was warped through extreme abuse, but however he got there he has reached the level of pure evil.  I was less sure of this until I found out the nature of the videos he was downloading.  He is irredeemably sick.

It just blows my mind that, despite his past crimes, they weren't even looking for HIM in this investigation.  They were just following the illegal files and they led the feds to his computer.  

I agree with the bolded 100%.

As a Christian, I do believe his soul is still redeemable, but repentance to me would look like this: Pleading guilty. Doing his time. Never being around children again. Never having unsupervised access to a computer again. 

I was thinking of JB and M when I said no one is all monster or all perfect.

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1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

 

But I don't otherwise know that much about evangelists.  (I come from a conservative religion that is not evangelical, moms of young children are encouraged to stay home if they can because it (ideally) provides a stable environment for kids - but there's also the message to "get as much education as you can".)

The church isn't without fault here. They say "get as much education as you can" out of one side of their mouths, and they certainly push early marriage and childbearing as soon as possible out of the other side of their mouths. Just look at the Elder Holland interview this month. 

Things in my own ward and stake that went down:

1. bishop in a nearby ward was arrested for sexually molesting several teen girls in the course of his work as a driver's ed instructor. Our bishop knew he had had access to several girls in our ward, when someone else posted the news article asking for others to come forward as part of the investigation, on the ward facebook page, the bishop asked the administrator to take it down. The stake never made an announcement, he was quietly released without his crime ever being mentioned in his own home ward.

2. several wives were counseled to remain with abusive husbands, were counseled to receive only LDS services counseling, and their allegations against their husbands were minimized or denied

3. bishop asked sexually explicit questions in ward temple recommend interviews

4. in our previous ward, a member of our ward and stake high council was arrested for sexually abusing his daughters. His daughters were sent to foster care. He denied the allegations, saying his daughters lied, and retained his position on the high council. He later developed brain cancer and had a "deathbed" confessional in which he admitted what he had done. He was released from his calling. This story goes on in even worse ways......but essentially he and several other registered sex offenders were allowed to continue attending the ward AND no one in the ward was notified. So, you know, church with lots of kids running around everywhere---but he could attend there because his daughters that he had offended were elsewhere.

I could go on and on and on.....but the reason that I am sharing this is that I am 100% over people saying "but my church is so great" in this area when it is not. What we do know is that a number of offenses are never reported, and that we live in a culture that is far from being free and open about talking about these matters. 

My point is that these abusers are allowed continued access because the entire culture is sick. Emphasis should be put on protecting others rather than the offending individual.  You can offer repentance without offering access.  We should listen to women's voices. When you have men making decisions (all men in the Mormon church--in the bishopric, in the high councils, in the stake presidencies, and area presidencies, in the quorums etc.) without really listening to the voices of women, without allowing women shared access to institutional and decision making power, something is wrong. That is true in Mormonism. That is true in many evangelical circles. To some degree, that is true everywhere....in the workplace, and elsewhere.

The Duggars still have their tv show and their followers and their church community because the community supports them at some level. 

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47 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I agree with the bolded 100%.

As a Christian, I do believe his soul is still redeemable, but repentance to me would look like this: Pleading guilty. Doing his time. Never being around children again. Never having unsupervised access to a computer again. 

I was thinking of JB and M when I said no one is all monster or all perfect.

Yes to this.   I still pray there is hope for my ex husband.  He will never get out of prison.   But true repentance looks like major change, and accountability, and not putting themselves into those positions.

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A church I attended in the early 2000s was attended by a sex offender.  Just before he started attending, church leadership (all 4 elders/pastors and all the deacons):  

1. Had a meeting with all the parents of minors, handed out his picture so the parents could tell their children to never interact with him or be near him, and explained he would attend only under strict supervision.

2.  He was to arrive with his mother after the service started (no loitering with people waiting for the service to start) and was met at the door by a male deacon who would chaperone him (within arm's reach) the whole time he was on the property.

3. He was not allowed to use the bathroom or be in any room other than the sanctuary and only during the service. He had to sit in the back row with his mother and the male deacon.

4. He was accompanied to his car by the deacon immediately after the service ended and was watched as he drove off the property. 

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1 hour ago, MercyA said:

I agree with the bolded 100%.

As a Christian, I do believe his soul is still redeemable, but repentance to me would look like this: Pleading guilty. Doing his time. Never being around children again. Never having unsupervised access to a computer again. 

I was thinking of JB and M when I said no one is all monster or all perfect.

Re your middle paragraph...

this is one of the many reasons I don’t believe in the death penalty. 

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3 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

And they probably did background checks on the workers and volunteers who did junior Sunday school and also?!! That doesn’t happen at the Mormon church either. 

My evangelical Presbyterian church did do background check on both volunteers with children or youth and staff.  We did have an incident about six years ago.  A youth pastor was found to sexting with some high school teen(s).  The minute it came to light, our then pastor (now retired) got the guy down and said he had one of two choices- turn himself in to the police or they will call the police.  He turned himself in.   

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30 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

A church I attended in the early 2000s was attended by a sex offender.  Just before he started attending, church leadership (all 4 elders/pastors and all the deacons):  

1. Had a meeting with all the parents of minors, handed out his picture so the parents could tell their children to never interact with him or be near him, and explained he would attend only under strict supervision.

2.  He was to arrive with his mother after the service started (no loitering with people waiting for the service to start) and was met at the door by a male deacon who would chaperone him (within arm's reach) the whole time he was on the property.

3. He was not allowed to use the bathroom or be in any room other than the sanctuary and only during the service. He had to sit in the back row with his mother and the male deacon.

4. He was accompanied to his car by the deacon immediately after the service ended and was watched as he drove off the property. 

What was his crime? was is against children or adults?

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Just now, Seasider too said:

Sadly background checks only screen out people who have already been caught doing things they shouldn’t. 

Right AND it’s a step towards creating a culture that says that it doesn’t tolerate abuse.

We know, statistically, that abusers are most likely family members or other close household contacts and that most abuse goes unreported.

My former church denomination is sitting on $140bn+ in assets but can’t be bothered to pay for background checks or to do mandatory abuse training. I have to be background checked to volunteer in reading time at the local school, to volunteer at the library, the hospital, and even the vaccine clinic (where people wave hands at people for where to drive—no people contact at all). Why don’t we, as church goers who are/were in unhealthy places have the political will to push for background checks of those people working with our children? 
 

I am a mandatory reporter as required by my professional licensing board. I see all of the resources that are available to help families and create healthier and safer cultures for them....if you say “we do not tolerate abuse” but then your behaviors suggest you do...that’s a problem.

That’s what I see in the Duggars’ situation. The family is caught up in an unhealthy culture—and arguably any church with a purity culture has some Serious issues—and yet all of this culture continues because people still support it. One of the ways to change the culture is to change some of the institutional practices behind the culture. So—background checks, trainings, etc.

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5 hours ago, MercyA said:

I'm pretty sure I read the part of the report that you are talking about, and it just says that [someone] ran and told the parents right after it happened. It could have been the five-year-old, but it doesn't read that way to me.

You could be right that he was forced to tell them because he knew if he didn't one of the other kids would. The five-year-old was clearly aware of what was going on and remembered it well, based on what she told the officer. 😞 

It was very bold of him to do it in front of so many other children. 

No, that is not the part I'm talking about.  The part I'm talking about is relatively early in the report.  It is the part where M and JB sit down with the police.  It starts with the description of the first 2 incidences as JB recounts.  He recounts that Josh told them about it himself.  It then goes on to say that there is another incident months later.  That is the incident with the 5 year old.  The way they describe that JB describes it suggests to me that Josh is not the one who told him.  It says the 5 year old ran to a redacted name( so it wouldn't have been a parent.) It is believed that person is Jill and she is the one who told. 

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1 hour ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

A church I attended in the early 2000s was attended by a sex offender.  Just before he started attending, church leadership (all 4 elders/pastors and all the deacons):  

1. Had a meeting with all the parents of minors, handed out his picture so the parents could tell their children to never interact with him or be near him, and explained he would attend only under strict supervision.

2.  He was to arrive with his mother after the service started (no loitering with people waiting for the service to start) and was met at the door by a male deacon who would chaperone him (within arm's reach) the whole time he was on the property.

3. He was not allowed to use the bathroom or be in any room other than the sanctuary and only during the service. He had to sit in the back row with his mother and the male deacon.

4. He was accompanied to his car by the deacon immediately after the service ended and was watched as he drove off the property. 

And that is the Christian way to handle that!

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Well, as a no longer christian, I have to say, being on the outside is just eye opening. The pervasiveness of harboring abusers is huge. The "house" needs to clean up its act.

The local Christian school, literally within walking distance of my house, is harboring a deviant who the adult male child of one of the employees and assaulted two high school girls. They asked the girls and their families to leave the church and school for daring to embarrass them by reporting the assaults, and have coddled the perv. Unfortunately for the girls, the state police post where they reported the incidents told the girls that "boys will be boys" and that the legal process itself is so abusive that they should not press charges and just get on with their lives even though they actually had a confession from the perv! The D.A.did not move forward with the case, and told him to be good and keep his nose clean or there would be trouble. He is still volunteering at the school.

In case you are wondering, the church is affiliated with the Wesleyan denomination which is small so not a mainstream denomination, but also nor a fringe one either. I have no idea if the denomination knows though the parents reported it to the district office.

Having this sh$t happen just about next door does not help my attitude about religion. So yes, I know I am judgy. I am very aware!

As for the Duggar creeps, there will continue to be creeptasticness so long as the cult is allowed to function and keep custody of their younglings. The only things that will make the abusers change is enough of them going to jail for aiding and abetting, and losing custody of their kids so they can't indoctrinate them in the religion. Well, and money. TLC, an organization that does not know the meaning of the word ethics, needs to drop the crew permanently, and then the adult kids all need to ban together and sue the pants off their parents, take the money, go live their lives, and leave their abusers bankrupt forcing them to get real jobs likely having to place the kids that are left into school where they might discover a world outside this freak show. And since none of this is going to happen, there will eventually be more of the same. Another kid is eventually going to crack and reveal more evil out of these p.o.s., and scandals start all over again. Financial flimflam? Probably. Physical abuse? Most definitely. Sexual abuse? Likely since their religious views twists the minds of these kids. 

I mean, how anyone could be shocked is beyond me. Hell, Jbob dry humped Michelle on a putt putt golf course on camera, so it begs the question, "What does he do when the cameras are gone, and he doesn't think he will get caught?" There is no doubt in my mind that he is a deviant of some kind himself.

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49 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

No, that is not the part I'm talking about.  The part I'm talking about is relatively early in the report.  It is the part where M and JB sit down with the police.  It starts with the description of the first 2 incidences as JB recounts.  He recounts that Josh told them about it himself.  It then goes on to say that there is another incident months later.  That is the incident with the 5 year old.  The way they describe that JB describes it suggests to me that Josh is not the one who told him.  It says the 5 year old ran to a redacted name( so it wouldn't have been a parent.) It is believed that person is Jill and she is the one who told. 

You are absolutely right. I'll go back and correct my previous posts. Thanks for your patience.

Here it is, for anyone who is interested. 

1381946439_PoliceReport1.thumb.jpeg.c8357e74a103c35a993e1da4e08d414c.jpeg

Police Report 2.jpeg

Edited by MercyA
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28 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Well, as a no longer christian, I have to say, being on the outside is just eye opening. The pervasiveness of harboring abusers is huge. The "house" needs to clean up its act.

The local Christian school, literally within walking distance of my house, is harboring a deviant who the adult male child of one of the employees and assaulted two high school girls. They asked the girls and their families to leave the church and school for daring to embarrass them by reporting the assaults, and have coddled the perv. Unfortunately for the girls, the state police post where they reported the incidents told the girls that "boys will be boys" and that the legal process itself is so abusive that they should not press charges and just get on with their lives even though they actually had a confession from the perv! The D.A.did not move forward with the case, and told him to be good and keep his nose clean or there would be trouble. He is still volunteering at the school.

In case you are wondering, the church is affiliated with the Wesleyan denomination which is small so not a mainstream denomination, but also nor a fringe one either. I have no idea if the denomination knows though the parents reported it to the district office.

Having this sh$t happen just about next door does not help my attitude about religion. So yes, I know I am judgy. I am very aware!

As for the Duggar creeps, there will continue to be creeptasticness so long as the cult is allowed to function and keep custody of their younglings. The only things that will make the abusers change is enough of them going to jail for aiding and abetting, and losing custody of their kids so they can't indoctrinate them in the religion. Well, and money. TLC, an organization that does not know the meaning of the word ethics, needs to drop the crew permanently, and then the adult kids all need to ban together and sue the pants off their parents, take the money, go live their lives, and leave their abusers bankrupt forcing them to get real jobs likely having to place the kids that are left into school where they might discover a world outside this freak show. And since none of this is going to happen, there will eventually be more of the same. Another kid is eventually going to crack and reveal more evil out of these p.o.s., and scandals start all over again. Financial flimflam? Probably. Physical abuse? Most definitely. Sexual abuse? Likely since their religious views twists the minds of these kids. 

I mean, how anyone could be shocked is beyond me. Hell, Jbob dry humped Michelle on a putt putt golf course on camera, so it begs the question, "What does he do when the cameras are gone, and he doesn't think he will get caught?" There is no doubt in my mind that he is a deviant of some kind himself.

I never watched the show except for about 15 minutes of it one time.  They were having dinner and doing laundry too.  I just found the whole thing creepy, particularly in the time I was watching this briefly, Michelle's behavior.  So I did not see the dry humping on putt putt course- how awfully creepy.

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2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

My former church denomination is sitting on $140bn+ in assets but can’t be bothered to pay for background checks or to do mandatory abuse training.

That's straight up stoopid in this day and age! 

From my personal experience the Boy Scouts and the Catholic Church have cleaned up their acts in this regard at least. It's not foolproof but it's a solid first step.

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17 minutes ago, EKS said:

If you actually look at the clip, you'll see that this isn't what happened.

Umm that is exactly what happens.  He tells his dd and her date to "watch this. don't try this at home"  and then, while behind michelle as if he is going to help her learn to swing a club, starts moving inappropriately and rubbing himself up against her.  It is disgusting.  He also in that scene kisses his wife and asks her if it turns her on in front of their dd and her date.

 

edited because baby pressed enter too soon.

Edited by hjffkj
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18 minutes ago, EKS said:

If you actually look at the clip, you'll see that this isn't what happened.

I agree.  What JB and Michelle have actually done is bad enough without exaggerating it.  Honestly what they were saying during that clip seems more inappropriate than what he actually did.  They were both making a big deal about public affection and seemed to be playing it all up for the cameras.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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