NM

[Katy]

NM

Edited April 29, 2021 by Katy

[ktgrok]

4 minutes ago, Katy said:

Has it been 2 months yet?

Our outgoing kids are so miserable we’re trying to figure out when our high risk two year old will be vaccinated or if we need to discuss with our pediatrician risking her physical health for the mental health of the others. Are we looking at 60-90 more days here, or two more years until kids can get vaccinated?

Best guess for under 12 yr olds is "winter" from what I've heard  - and I've been paying attention as I have a high risk 8 yr old. Best guess is December or January if I had to narrow it down. 

[Katy]

No, I haven’t. I think half the problem is DH has never spent this much time with the kids before, and especially DS3, with his special needs…. it’s getting to us all. 

What an exhausting year and a half. 

[Arcadia]

“CAMBRIDGE, Mass.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Mar. 16, 2021-- Moderna Inc. (Nasdaq: MRNA), a biotechnology company pioneering messenger RNA (mRNA) therapeutics and vaccines, today announced that the first participants have been dosed in the Phase 2/3 study, called the KidCOVE study, of mRNA-1273, the Company’s vaccine candidate against COVID-19, in children ages 6 months to less than 12 years. ” https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-announces-first-participants-dosed-phase-23-study-0

 

[Farrar]

My doctor friend who is a mom and has been treating covid pts and mostly been on top of these things said on her social media in a conversation recently that she thought it would be fall for the 12+ and a good bit longer for the 2 and ups, though she didn't have an answer as to when, but I don't think we're talking about three months from now. Like, I don't think that's on the table. I'd say six months or more at minimum for those younger kids. If they get something approved for 12 and up sooner, that wouldn't surprise me too much, but for the younger kids? It's going to be another school year without a vaccine for them.

So... I don't know what your options look like, but you might want to start assessing risks. 😞

[Not_a_Number]

Are you located somewhere where you can expect cases to be down in the summer? We're planning to make the most of the summer, because everyone will be outside and between that and the vaccines, I expect really low case counts.

[Katy]

I don’t think so. Mostly because we’re smack dab between three cities, but our small town is in the country 45-60 minutes from them, and much of the county seems to be in denial. We’ve had consistently higher positive rates than the surrounding counties since this began.

Today DH told me that the rural area just to the South of us was marked on some militia watch map he saw. 

[KSera]

10 minutes ago, Katy said:

Has it been 2 months yet?

Our outgoing kids are so miserable we’re trying to figure out when our high risk two year old will be vaccinated or if we need to discuss with our pediatrician risking her physical health for the mental health of the others. Are we looking at 60-90 more days here, or two more years until kids can get vaccinated?

Are your oldest old enough to be vaccinated? If so, the data on the vaccines preventing transmission is looking really good, so if everyone else in your family can be vaccinated, you may be able to keep your little one shielded while everyone else is able to expand what they do a bit. I’m waiting for vaccines for younger ones as well. 

[Katy]

No, they aren’t old enough. 

[Not_a_Number]

27 minutes ago, Katy said:

I don’t think so. Mostly because we’re smack dab between three cities, but our small town is in the country 45-60 minutes from them, and much of the county seems to be in denial. We’ve had consistently higher positive rates than the surrounding counties since this began.

Today DH told me that the rural area just to the South of us was marked on some militia watch map he saw. 

What state are you in again, if you don’t mind me asking?

[JennyD]

I have heard mixed things about this.  On the one hand, I've heard from two different very reliable sources that the Pfizer kids trial is going gangbusters and is ahead of schedule.   On the other hand, i tried to get my 10yo into the Moderna trial and here's the most recent email I got from them, on March 24:

Quote

All –

As you may have seen, the Moderna pediatric study launched last week at a few limited places. We are gearing up for starting locally as well and are completing all of the regulatory reviews and approvals before we begin. As you can imagine, we have had an amazing response to the study and it is doubtful that all who have signed up will be able to participate. With that being said, we are doing all we can to ensure equitable recruitment among the nearly 1,000 of you who have indicated your interest.

We anticipate starting in mid-April, starting with the older children (6-11 years of age), followed by younger children. We want to reiterate that we are only looking for those 11 and younger. If you have children 12 and older, they will not be eligible for this study. The study will enroll a bit more slowly than the adult clinical trials as we determine the best dose to use in the larger portion of the study. Once we can share more specifics, such as the approved informed consent document, we will get these to you ASAP.

which sure makes it sound like we are not getting results from this anytime soon.  

[Farrar]

I think you're probably realistically looking at a year. With the rates not going to reach herd immunity, the schools reopening because the teachers can get vaxxed, and the lower transmission between kids... I think we're moving into a period where people are going to be accepting the risks and there's going to be less of a strong push for the 2-12 kids to get that approval. They're just... at so much less risk overall. Obviously that's not at all what you want to hear.

Can you... I don't even know... go stay for much of the next year with relatives in a safer area? Rent out your home and move for a little while to a place where outdoor socializing might be more possible? Separate the household for long chunks so the older kids can do more socializing for periods? All these things sound crazy as I type them, but also, the situation is crazy. I'm sorry. 😞 

[Lanny]

Possibly there is some information about this on the web site of Vanderbilt University in Nashville TN?   The Moderna COVID-19 vaccine apparently was developed there (?) and Dolly Parton donated one million dollars to the research?

Please check for confirmation about what I wrote above.  I have no idea whether or not Vanderbilt is involved with studies for very young children.  I do believe that I read that Pfizer is going to request an EUA for people 12 (?) and older, but I have not read anything about children 2 and up. 

I did see at least one news story during the past few months, about a family that was removed from an airline flight because their 2 year old kept taking the mask off.  I think that is asking a lot of a 2 year old...

[Arcadia]

46 minutes ago, Katy said:

No, they aren’t old enough. 

The 12 and older Pfizer trial was started in July 2020. The under 12 Pfizer trial was started in March.

34 minutes ago, JennyD said:

I have heard mixed things about this.  On the one hand, I've heard from two different very reliable sources that the Pfizer kids trial is going gangbusters and is ahead of schedule.   

https://www.pfizer.com/science/clinical-trials/children
“The landmark Pfizer-BioNTech Phase 3 clinical trial began in late July 2020, recruiting participants aged 12 and over. Close to three thousand participants were adolescents: 2,259 participants were between the ages of 12-15 and 754 participants were 16 and 17 years old. In March 2021, Pfizer and BioNTech dosed the first healthy children in a global Phase 1/2/3 continuous study to learn if the vaccine can produce an immune response against COVID-19, and if it is safe, in children aged 6 months to 11 years.“

[Katy]

I haven’t posted details about my family, ages of older kids or locations in several years after we had a safety threat from one of the kids birth families. Technically the person is now in prison (violence unrelated to us), but I’m not inclined to post where we are after warnings from multiple social workers. My real life social media is similarly locked down.

We already decided that it wouldn’t be a good idea to put DD2 in a trial. We’re on pretty much total lockdown except for a handful of medical appointments, grocery pickup, and takeout food, so her data wouldn’t be worth the risk of constant appointments anyway. 

We’re in one of the midwest states that’s made national news for militia activity, if that helps you narrow it down. 

I’m not inclined to split the family up. I don’t think DH would be ok with that either.  We can’t really go elsewhere because his office just announced to expect a hybrid work schedule soon.

DH just fell asleep but we were discussing there were some things I was doing in the beginning of this to try to make lockdown more fun that I haven’t done in a while. Dancing to cheery music, ridiculous crafts, general sillyness. Afternoon popcorn breaks. More time outside because even if you’re waving from across the street at least you’re seeing other people. I need to make an effort at that again. And we do have some older neighbors that are vaccinated that we could visit. 

[Farrar]

Kids wearing masks while socializing outdoors is incredibly low risk. From my understanding, even lower risk than your kids interacting with vaccinated adults indoors. Obviously I don't know your risks, but is there any way you could start introducing that with some trusted families or is it just too risky because of the health concerns?

[Katy]

7 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Kids wearing masks while socializing outdoors is incredibly low risk. From my understanding, even lower risk than your kids interacting with vaccinated adults indoors. Obviously I don't know your risks, but is there any way you could start introducing that with some trusted families or is it just too risky because of the health concerns?

Last I spoke to a doctor it was too risky, although I recognize I’m in an incredibly privileged position to even have lockdown be an option. Also we don’t know many families here. The few we do know don’t take this seriously at all.
 

That’s partly my fault, when we moved here we didn’t get involved in the community the way we typically do. By the time we had everything unpacked and started exploring stuff like churches, gyms, coops, and sports leagues I had strong intuition that we should wait and not join anything. Then Covid happened. 

[Not_a_Number]

@Katy: I know I'm obviously not the first one to have "thought" of this, but how are you guys doing with socializing via Zoom and such? 

The reason I ask is that Zoom socializing was REALLY not working for us last year. We precipitously quit all of our activities in early March, tried a couple of Zoom things that really sucked, tried some Zoom playdates that were terrible, and kind of crossed our fingers things would settle themselves by the fall. 

Well... by the fall, we realized we were still feeling cautious and that we wanted to spend the time with the grandparents, which meant NO playdates at all. So then we had to work a LOT harder to make the Zoom thing actually work. And after a bunch of experimenting, we actually figured out how to more or less get the kids' needs met in this highly unsatisfactory format.

I'm not saying that's going to be possible for you... just curious how much you've explored the space. Or have you gotten about the most you can out of virtual socializing? 

[Katy]

I could definitely focus more on zoom & Facetime. Sometimes it helps. 

[Not_a_Number]

17 minutes ago, Katy said:

I could definitely focus more on zoom & Facetime. Sometimes it helps. 

I know that for us, it was much more manageable to use this after I became resigned that this was going to be it for the year. So then I really put a lot of effort into making it work. 

It was never GREAT, but it at least managed to keep some needs fulfilled. 

[JennyD]

Hugs, Katy.  It's so hard.

I remember hearing on a podcast months ago some scientist say, look, there are going to be places in this country with 90% vaccination rates and others with 30% vaccination rates.  And that sure looks like where we're heading. In San Francisco 70% of adults 16+ have gotten at least one dose, they have 1.8 cases per 100,000 people, and their test positivity rate is 0.8%.  In my city, 40% of total population -- so, the percentage of 16+ would be much lower -- have gotten at least one dose, we have 13 cases per 100,000, and test positivity rate is 5%.  And my county has one of the highest vaccination rates in our state.

All that is to say, we seem to be heading into a period of time in which the risk to unvaccinated people is going to vary wildly by geography.  

I agree with Farrar that it increasingly appears as though outdoor socializing with masks is really low risk; might be worth asking your daughter's doctor again about that.  And while it sounds cold, presumably an increasing percentage of people where you live will have had covid, and we're learning more all the time about the protection granted (or not) by previous infection, so perhaps your circle will eventually be able to expand that way.

Still, I am sorry.  I imagine you must feel terribly isolated.

 

[Not_a_Number]

29 minutes ago, JennyD said:

All that is to say, we seem to be heading into a period of time in which the risk to unvaccinated people is going to vary wildly by geography.  

It does seem like it. And that seems kind of unpleasant to think about! “Do not take thee thar... thar be the zombies... I mean, virus!”

[Soror]

45 minutes ago, JennyD said:

Hugs, Katy.  It's so hard.

I remember hearing on a podcast months ago some scientist say, look, there are going to be places in this country with 90% vaccination rates and others with 30% vaccination rates.  And that sure looks like where we're heading. In San Francisco 70% of adults 16+ have gotten at least one dose, they have 1.8 cases per 100,000 people, and their test positivity rate is 0.8%.  In my city, 40% of total population -- so, the percentage of 16+ would be much lower -- have gotten at least one dose, we have 13 cases per 100,000, and test positivity rate is 5%.  And my county has one of the highest vaccination rates in our state.

 

Yes, it is a shame. My state has continued to be at the bottom of the country for vaccination rates(usually in the bottom 10- now a smidge above that) and my county has lagged even further behind. Last I checked we were at 37% vaccination rates for the state and my county was only 19%.

[Not_a_Number]

@Katy -- I don't know where you are, but I took a look at the positivity rates for a few Midwestern states. It does look like last summer there was a summer bonus from people being outside, as you'd expect in places with 4 seasons. That is, the positivity numbers were MUCH lower in the summer. 

I would expect the same thing to happen this year, and with the vaccinations, it should be even better. So I might suggest that you take advantage of the summer and take some very limited risks in the form of playing outside with a few families -- this is about the least risky thing you can do, and again, it looks like summer will be a much better time to do this than the fall. 

We're planning to do this ourselves -- we'll open things up for the summer and then close things up again for the fall until the vaccines for kids come through. 

Do you think that might be plausible for you guys? 

[Drama Llama]

One of my kids just made a new friend in an online class through a local organization.  Since there are lots of in person classes going on, the online class turned out to be a good place to meet other kids whose parents were cautious, and this kid's family has a similar level of caution to our own, leading us to feel comfortable with a masked, socially distanced, outdoor gathering.  

I wonder if there's some sort of online setting where you could meet another family?  I think that podding with one other cautious family, where all the adults are working from home and/or vaccinated and the kids aren't doing outside things, is pretty safe.  That's what we did with my kids' cousins, and it felt pretty safe to me even when our high risk family member wasn't yet vaccinated.  

It's hard to offer concrete suggestions without a vague notion of the age of your kids.  I somehow had the idea that you only had toddlers, so if that's true, then obviously my suggestion isn't a great one.  

[Katy]

The news just announced several local elementary schools going back to virtual because of “widespread outbreaks among young children”… ugh, why give no further details than that? I”

Online classes are a great idea. That will be a way to meet cautious families.  For that matter we could go visit some of our old friends who are taking it seriously too. Even if it’s a drive it would be worth it.

And a few family members have had it go through their family, months have passed and now adults are vaccinated so we’re discussing visiting cousins on both sides this summer. 

[Not_a_Number]

30 minutes ago, Katy said:

The news just announced several local elementary schools going back to virtual because of “widespread outbreaks among young children”… ugh, why give no further details than that? I”

Online classes are a great idea. That will be a way to meet cautious families.  For that matter we could go visit some of our old friends who are taking it seriously too. Even if it’s a drive it would be worth it.

And a few family members have had it go through their family, months have passed and now adults are vaccinated so we’re discussing visiting cousins on both sides this summer. 

We've been doing online classes since September, and it has worked a lot better for us than simply organizing Zoom playdates. Some structure seems necessary for kids to navigate socializing online! 

As I've mentioned before, I wound up running the classes myself in order to get what I wanted out of them: namely, small classes with lots of interaction that made the kids feel like they were still friends (and not just a bunch of muted pictures on the same screen.) I can tell you what worked for us and what didn't in terms of socializing time, if you like. 

[mathnerd]

19 hours ago, Katy said:

Last I spoke to a doctor it was too risky, although I recognize I’m in an incredibly privileged position to even have lockdown be an option. Also we don’t know many families here. The few we do know don’t take this seriously at all.
 

That’s partly my fault, when we moved here we didn’t get involved in the community the way we typically do. By the time we had everything unpacked and started exploring stuff like churches, gyms, coops, and sports leagues I had strong intuition that we should wait and not join anything. Then Covid happened. 

If your kids will play well together, then you could go to parks, hikes, trails and such public places on your own and play outside when the weather is good. In most of these places, there are times of the day when nobody is around and I like to go at those times.

We will not be socializing until there is a vaccination for kids, but, I have started biking and kicking a soccer ball around with my son in order to do some outdoor activities that he loves to do. He also attends sports classes on Zoom with very good trainers and that has worked out very well for him for a year.

[Katy]

Thanks everyone. We had a much better day.  One of my extroverts compared this to pioneer times, and said it really isn’t so bad with technology. DH got a little better with the sort of positive parenting techniques that work best for DS3, who was exceptionally well behaved today in response. 

I’ll definitely look into online classes, and we planned a few get togethers with family we know is safe. 

[Drama Llama]

I'm glad you had a better day!  I wish you were close by, you could come socialize with us, we're pretty locked down.