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this housing market is freaking me out


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So, talked to DH, and he wants to explore the Knock Home Swap thing. He feels the extra fees are probably more than worth the hassel, and that we will be able to sell our house for more anyway if we are out of it when showing it. (truth! I'm SURE it smells like dog in here , and driving around with 5 pets and the kids in the van for every showing sounds miserable). 

We are also going to look again more seriously at the building idea, but it just doesn't look like anything is being built where we want to go - PLENTY being built where we are leaving, lol...we are going the wrong direction for that to work. (we want to move to east side of metro, between downtown and the coast...everyone is building on the west side of metro, and going towards the other coast)

 

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2 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

I'd bet dollars to donuts that being in Florida, she doesn't have a basement, nor does anyone else within 50 miles of her. Such a flat place with a low water table. I lived in South FL for 10 years and never came across a single place that had a basement.

Yeah, no basement, attic is just a crawlspace type thing. 

Garage is full of bikes and lawn equipment, and as of yesterday, rats. 

I fully admit that spending my entire afternoon cleaning out a rat buffett and poopatorioum may have made me even more desperate to get out of this place. (I had a 50lb bag of grass seed, unopened, in there. Rats got in, chewed a hole at the bottom back where I didn't see it, and took the seed out and gorged themselves in between layers of plywood "shutters" we cut to fit our windows for hurricanes. Had to take each layer of wood (with 2x4s nailed to them) out, clean it all out, scrub with bleach, etc. Found three fat rats while doing it - thankfully DS21 came out to help move some of the wood as I am pretty sure I'd have died if I saw them on my own. He shooed thm out while I shook with fear in the front yard. So yeah, I'm sore and traumatized and hate this place. The oak trees in the back harbor rats, who can jump from the trees to the roof, then climb down. The bastards don't even NEED food from us...I find acorns IN MY GRILL all the time, where they hide out in the grill on the screened patio and eat acorns and poop in my grill)

Ok, sorry, rant over, lol. Not actually relevant. 

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1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

don't think my sanity will survive another year or two

I don’t want to discourage you; if you find a creative solution, go for it!
But I do want to say that I bet you CAN get through it. Only because I know I have.  And I haven’t liked it, it hasn’t been fun, and I’ll always wish it could have been different for my kids.  I’ve complained a lot. I’ve spent a lot of time and money working on “hacks”. All for a LOT longer than I ever intended. But when there was no other option, we made it work. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Lovinglife123 said:

That really sounds like the best option!  How much are the fees?

It varies a bit, but looks like a 1.5% fee that they say is instead of a loan origination fee, plus a 1,400 administration/convenience fee, plus then you have realtor commissions, etc as normal.  https://www.realestatewitch.com/knock-real-estate-reviews/

Normally, I'd say it is risky since you don' know when you will sell your house, but given the market that's less of an issue. 

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2 minutes ago, pinball said:

Is he ALLOWED to go back to work? Or does the option not even exist?

As of right now, they don't want people back, and they will not have office space for everyone, period. They are switching to a mostly at home model, with some "hotel space" desks. And even if he went back to the office it wouldn't fix the up at midnight working thing...he actually works a second job teaching (virtually) at a university so often is up grading for that job, or writing course material, etc. He could go into the university and work sometimes, but he wouldn't have his full set up there....he uses at least 3 monitors at once, etc. So it's not as simple as just going to starbucks to work or whatever, even aside from the pandemic. Otherwise I'd just send him to the living room at night. But he's got this whole "set up" . 

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4 minutes ago, Lovinglife123 said:

It sounds very reasonable.  Possibly much Cheaper than renting.  Does the price go up the longer you house hunt?  If not that’s a dream come true.  

No, you have 6 months to sell your home. No interest during that time. If you don't sell in 6 months they will buy it, at a lower amount than you'd get normally - like Zillow, etc. But in this market, i don't see anything not selling in 6 months. 

Reading reviews, people who like it are people like us - big families, young kids, pets, etc. 

 I saw complaints that if you use their contractors to make repairs (they will advance the money if you use their contractors) before selling, it may be more expensive than hiring your own contractors. But we don't plan on doing much of that, or will just pay for it out of pocket ourselves. Like, we will paint it ourselves, that kind of thing. 

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We've done bridge loans for a few months before. We're likely moving to OH in the next 4-6 months. I hope things calm down a little. There, houses are going under contract within 24 hours of listing. People that aren't local are buying houses sight unseen. That scares me. We'll probably buy first and then deal with selling our house. Hopefully, it'll be favorable for us on one end. 

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2 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Right, but a lot have a 3 pet max from what I'm seeing, or only small dogs, etc. 5 pets seems to be pushing it, lol. 

Darn. I was going to suggest booking a cabin or trailer at a local state park. Not very cozy and you’d have to put nearly all your stuff in storage, but they usually don’t mind pets and presuming you can find a new house within a month or two - one could cope for that brief a time. 

But I think even most state parks have a pet limit.  
 

Do you have any trusted family/friends who would be willing to foster a few pets for you temporarily?

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10 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Darn. I was going to suggest booking a cabin or trailer at a local state park. Not very cozy and you’d have to put nearly all your stuff in storage, but they usually don’t mind pets and presuming you can find a new house within a month or two - one could cope for that brief a time. 

But I think even most state parks have a pet limit.  
 

Do you have any trusted family/friends who would be willing to foster a few pets for you temporarily?

No...only the one sibling - no local cousins, etc. 

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What about borrow from his 401k for a downpayment on the second house and just deal with the two mortgages for a short time. It’s still cheaper than renting. If you think the house till move quickly, you would be looking at what? A month? Two months? Then you could properly prep your empty house and not waste/lose money on the Knock thing, while getting the most out of your current property. 

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Can you just build up at your current house? As in add another story? It’d double your space and take a heck of a lot less time than a new build. Of course, if you dislike your location that doesn’t really help.

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11 minutes ago, bibiche said:

Can you just build up at your current house? As in add another story? It’d double your space and take a heck of a lot less time than a new build. Of course, if you dislike your location that doesn’t really help.

Having added a second story to a house, it was not less time than a new build would have been, in our situation.  We did live in an area in which getting permits for renovations was a lengthy process, but even once all of that was handled, the renovation was time consuming.  We had to do some deconstruction before construction began.  Then, it was a unique design with unique issues.  It takes longer to reroute water pipes, especially when there is a "surprise" that no one anticipated, finding new windows to match existing windows, etc. than it does for a crew to come in and build from scratch.  

And it isn't something we could have done working from home, having several young children, and several pets to to corral.  

We liked our location so it was all worth it, but really only because we liked the location.

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1 minute ago, Bootsie said:

Having added a second story to a house, it was not less time than a new build would have been, in our situation.  We did live in an area in which getting permits for renovations was a lengthy process, but even once all of that was handled, the renovation was time consuming.  We had to do some deconstruction before construction began.  Then, it was a unique design with unique issues.  It takes longer to reroute water pipes, especially when there is a "surprise" that no one anticipated, finding new windows to match existing windows, etc. than it does for a crew to come in and build from scratch.  

And it isn't something we could have done working from home, having several young children, and several pets to to corral.  

We liked our location so it was all worth it, but really only because we liked the location.

Ah, I didn’t realize it was so complicated. In my old area it was very common and one day it was one story and the next it was two. Move-in was generally shortly after the second story was plopped on top.

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Could you get a shed for all the garage stuff, and move his office into the garage?  Like, finish it off and make it really nice (and rat-proof). 

I feel like the housing market is perilously nuts.  I see people making really dicey decisions based on desperation. 

 

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1 hour ago, bibiche said:

Can you just build up at your current house? As in add another story? It’d double your space and take a heck of a lot less time than a new build. Of course, if you dislike your location that doesn’t really help.

We have wanted to move closer to my family for quite some time, and closer to the coast. 

51 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

Could you get a shed for all the garage stuff, and move his office into the garage?  Like, finish it off and make it really nice (and rat-proof). 

I feel like the housing market is perilously nuts.  I see people making really dicey decisions based on desperation. 

 

We can, and have considered it, but it doesn't solve the problem of dd4 not having a bedroom, and DD11 having to continue sharing with DS8, or moving him out to put DD4 in there and him not having a bedroom. 

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It sounds like you are anxious about this move that has been a long time coming!  I would go to the bank and look into a bridge loan or see if you can buy with less down, so you can still cover both payments for z few months.  Find your place, make an offer,  and put yours on the market all the same time.  Its common here to close on selling house,  then close on buying house all the same day or a few days difference.  

And camping- I currently have s friend and a cousin who are planning to camp all summer in RVs while they build or house-shuffle.  

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Can you reconfigure your space until the market calms down? Do you have two eating areas or two living areas? Can one of those spaces be a bedroom and the other an office? It doesn’t matter if it’s weird; it just has to work for you. Maybe clean out the garage to use part for office space or put up a prefab shed for an office? Can you turn a living space into a kids room and a bedroom into an office? You don’t really need a LR and a FR. Is the MBR bigger than the kids’ room? Can you fit a third child in a room if you swap rooms? Are there rooms over your garage? Can you build there?
 

Dh tried to have his office in our bedroom. That was NOT quality of life. 

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7 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

If you do not have a HOA that would go ballistic, would having a tiny house in the backyard help ? You can throw DH out there. 

 

I was thinking about a garden office  They are very popular here during lockdown. 

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8 hours ago, ktgrok said:

We have wanted to move closer to my family for quite some time, and closer to the coast. 

We can, and have considered it, but it doesn't solve the problem of dd4 not having a bedroom, and DD11 having to continue sharing with DS8, or moving him out to put DD4 in there and him not having a bedroom. 

I know that is not a perfect situation, but i see it as much less of a problem than your dh’s work interfering with your sleep.  The kids will be fine ,sharing and doing without.  I am worried you will really regret it if you buy now.

Even here in rural OK houses are going for 25-30% more than they were a year ago.  

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7 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

Can you reconfigure your space until the market calms down? Do you have two eating areas or two living areas? Can one of those spaces be a bedroom and the other an office? It doesn’t matter if it’s weird; it just has to work for you. Maybe clean out the garage to use part for office space or put up a prefab shed for an office? Can you turn a living space into a kids room and a bedroom into an office? You don’t really need a LR and a FR. Is the MBR bigger than the kids’ room? Can you fit a third child in a room if you swap rooms? Are there rooms over your garage? Can you build there?
 

Dh tried to have his office in our bedroom. That was NOT quality of life. 

So, we have a kitchen with a small 4 person table (where I also fold laundry, as washer/dryer are in a closet in the kitchen), the living room and "dining room" are actually all one room - only designation of the space is that the flooring is different. Dining "room" is just a section of the living room with tile. No half wall or anything and that is where the front door is. We have a dining table that seats 6 and a dog kennel in that space. That's the only table that seats all of us. We often use it for school as well.  Then that flows into the "family room". No door or anything. There is also a pass through to the kitchen, and the back door. That room is where we have the kids toys, DD4's daybed, books shelves, and my desk. We used to have a table in there to do school, but it shares a wall with the master bedroom where DH is working, and the walls are thin so now we do school at dining or kitchen table. 

So, even if we figure out a place for DH with a shed, cleaning up and air conditioning the garage with a window unit (and only window is along th walkway to the front door, so window unit would be in full view ...not sure HOA would go for that0, etc....we still have a kid bedroom issue. We could maybe put all three kids in the master bedroom (DH hates that idea....he feels he's working 2 plus jobs and at least deserves an ensuite bathroom for his efforts), an us in the smaller one if we didn't have to also fit his "office" in there. But then we have all 3 kids, boys and girls, in a bedroom as DD11 is going through puberty and really needs some privacy. 

And i'm not sure that the cost of buying a shed that meets code standards, fixing up garage, etc is cheaper than a bridge loan/home swap/etc anyway. 

13 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I know that is not a perfect situation, but i see it as much less of a problem than your dh’s work interfering with your sleep.  The kids will be fine ,sharing and doing without.  I am worried you will really regret it if you buy now.

Even here in rural OK houses are going for 25-30% more than they were a year ago.  

Well, the flip side is, if we wait and house prices go down, we will then also be selling our house for less. so it kind of balances out, I think? Like prices are crazy how, but that means we get more for the house, less likely to have to make concessions, etc. 

 

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1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

So, we have a kitchen with a small 4 person table (where I also fold laundry, as washer/dryer are in a closet in the kitchen), the living room and "dining room" are actually all one room - only designation of the space is that the flooring is different. Dining "room" is just a section of the living room with tile. No half wall or anything and that is where the front door is. We have a dining table that seats 6 and a dog kennel in that space. That's the only table that seats all of us. We often use it for school as well.  Then that flows into the "family room". No door or anything. There is also a pass through to the kitchen, and the back door. That room is where we have the kids toys, DD4's daybed, books shelves, and my desk. We used to have a table in there to do school, but it shares a wall with the master bedroom where DH is working, and the walls are thin so now we do school at dining or kitchen table. 

So, even if we figure out a place for DH with a shed, cleaning up and air conditioning the garage with a window unit (and only window is along th walkway to the front door, so window unit would be in full view ...not sure HOA would go for that0, etc....we still have a kid bedroom issue. We could maybe put all three kids in the master bedroom (DH hates that idea....he feels he's working 2 plus jobs and at least deserves an ensuite bathroom for his efforts), an us in the smaller one if we didn't have to also fit his "office" in there. But then we have all 3 kids, boys and girls, in a bedroom as DD11 is going through puberty and really needs some privacy. 

And i'm not sure that the cost of buying a shed that meets code standards, fixing up garage, etc is cheaper than a bridge loan/home swap/etc anyway. 

Well, the flip side is, if we wait and house prices go down, we will then also be selling our house for less. so it kind of balances out, I think? Like prices are crazy how, but that means we get more for the house, less likely to have to make concessions, etc. 

 

This is true, but in times of less desperation people are less like to make rash decisions. 

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3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

This is true, but in times of less desperation people are less like to make rash decisions. 

Well, I mean, we are not going to buy a house that doesn't meet what we are looking for, if that is what you mean? We have a pretty strict criteria of what we want. 

Financing yeah we will have to do that differently due to low inventory...no buying on contingency of previous sale which was what was common in the past.

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14 hours ago, matrips said:

Just a different idea- some people rent office space- over the past decade I’ve seen lots of business models where they provide internet and desks etc, and you rent space from them.  It’s meant for all the individuals that need a place to work, but don’t have an office per se. Could that be a temporary fix while you house-hunt?

My sister did this for a while before the pandemic made it difficult to use. (She homeschools and runs  a non-profit but found she got more done when she went into the office to get it done than trying to get it done at home while schooling)

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1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Well, I mean, we are not going to buy a house that doesn't meet what we are looking for, if that is what you mean? We have a pretty strict criteria of what we want. 

Financing yeah we will have to do that differently due to low inventory...no buying on contingency of previous sale which was what was common in the past.

Well, then I think your best bet it to check with your bank about a bridge loan and/or just get your house on the market and keep your eye closely on things for sale.....if you get an offer on your house, take your 24-48 hour window to find something and make an offer on the houses you have hopefully already scoped out.....it is pretty stressful, but people do it all of the time.  

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17 hours ago, ktgrok said:

We looked and where we likely want to be, no one is building (that we can afford, anyway). It's mostly already built up. 

 

 

It's just crazy! The lots in my area have gone to a lottery system because people were actually parking RVs on the lots the night before they opened. We got lucky. For one, ours was being built as a spec house. And we bought it in Nov. 2019 before things went nuts. I have a friend who wants to move to this area but their house will be paid off in 2 years. They wanted to wait so they won't have to have 2 mortgages but the way things are going there might not be anything left in the neighborhood they want. And that neighborhood hasn't even broken ground yet!

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Here is a crazy idea, but I'll throw it out anyway. What about buying a little two/three bedroom condo (not to replace your house, but in addition to) and have your adult son move out and have your husband put his office in the second bedroom at the condo. You would then get an additional bedroom plus office for your family, which solves two of your problems. That gives you time and space, while you figure out a longer term solution.

It would, however, tie up more of your money in another property. Knowing that you could sell in a few years, if needed, perhaps makes the overall risk low. If you find a pet-friendly place, that gives you more options for what to do with pets whenever you are ready to put the house on the market.

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2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Well, then I think your best bet it to check with your bank about a bridge loan and/or just get your house on the market and keep your eye closely on things for sale.....if you get an offer on your house, take your 24-48 hour window to find something and make an offer on the houses you have hopefully already scoped out.....it is pretty stressful, but people do it all of the time.  

We are going to find out abou a bridge loan, and look into the Knock Home Swap. 

Yes, that is what people used to do, but new properties are only coming on the market maybe one every two weeks, it seems, and then are scooped up. So the chances of what we need going on the market in that 24-48 hour window, AND us having an offer accepted are pretty miniscule. Right now, if I go on the internet, there is ONE property with enough bedrooms, in the general area we are looking. And it doesn't have a backyard that would work for our dogs (all the lot/yard is in front...weird set up). That's the first to pop up in a few days. 

29 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

Here is a crazy idea, but I'll throw it out anyway. What about buying a little two/three bedroom condo (not to replace your house, but in addition to) and have your adult son move out and have your husband put his office in the second bedroom at the condo. You would then get an additional bedroom plus office for your family, which solves two of your problems. That gives you time and space, while you figure out a longer term solution.

It would, however, tie up more of your money in another property. Knowing that you could sell in a few years, if needed, perhaps makes the overall risk low. If you find a pet-friendly place, that gives you more options for what to do with pets whenever you are ready to put the house on the market.

Yeah, money wise, between a mortgage, insurance, etc, plus taxes on a home that is not a primary residence, I don't see that being very feasible.

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17 hours ago, hjffkj said:

in this market I would 100% sell my house and plan to rent for a year or 2.  

Around here, that strategy has sometimes locked people out of owning a home for years and years if the market climbs while renting.

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10 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

We are going to find out abou a bridge loan, and look into the Knock Home Swap. 

Yes, that is what people used to do, but new properties are only coming on the market maybe one every two weeks, it seems, and then are scooped up. So the chances of what we need going on the market in that 24-48 hour window, AND us having an offer accepted are pretty miniscule. Right now, if I go on the internet, there is ONE property with enough bedrooms, in the general area we are looking. And it doesn't have a backyard that would work for our dogs (all the lot/yard is in front...weird set up). That's the first to pop up in a few days. 

Yeah, money wise, between a mortgage, insurance, etc, plus taxes on a home that is not a primary residence, I don't see that being very feasible.

You need to get hooked up with realtors that know about houses before they come on the market.  You buy them then, and they don’t have to pay the listing fees.

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16 minutes ago, sangtarah said:

Is Geneva out of your shopping area? I could ask my family if there is anything near them available. 

A little further out....my sister is in Waterford Lakes, so Geneva is about 35 minutes away. That's a bit further than we want to be from her and my nieces. 

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10 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

You need to get hooked up with realtors that know about houses before they come on the market.  You buy them then, and they don’t have to pay the listing fees.

This. Yes, we're trying to find something to buy; the houses/properties are moving at an unbelievably fast pace. I emailed a realtor so we would have more of an inside track. 

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I can't remember the reason for hesitating on a bridge loan. Was it the fees? Honestly, those are so easy to get that I would recommend this route.

Moving is so stressful to begin with, so the path of least stress is the bridge loan.

In addition to talking to a realtor or two, pick up the phone and call a bank to get some preliminary info. I mentioned Trustco Bank in your thread about motgages. Their fees for a regular mortgage are nearly nil, but I don't know about Bridge Loans.

While I hate talking on the phone, it's honestly a great way to get some basic info so you aren't wondering about tons of different things.

As for the living arrangement, if you go with a bridge loan, you can leave things as is. If you decide to make some changes like a shed or garage stuff, I might swap your son & dd4 since your dd11 needs privacy.  Does your other son still live with you? Is there any way he and your younger ds can share a room for a few months?

And with that, I go back to my first thought ---- the bridge loan is so much easier than trying to make changes to your current place that are only temporary. Moving is expensive as well as stressful, so any closing costs are just part of that.

Can you try a no-fee HELOC to get your equity out?  I can't remember the rules on those, though. I do know the minimum payment will be more than a bridge loan (I think they are like 2% of the balance), but if your house will sell fast, it won't be a big issue, since you should save on a bridge loan closing.

Seriously, though. Call a bank and get some rates & costs on the various loan options. It will give you info and help stem the "what if" crazies. As much as I love to plan and scheme to save money, I honestly think it won't matter in the end as far as costs but you'll wind up with much more stress if you try to think your way into an ideal situation.

 

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1 hour ago, Wildcat said:

I can't remember the reason for hesitating on a bridge loan. Was it the fees? Honestly, those are so easy to get that I would recommend this route.

Moving is so stressful to begin with, so the path of least stress is the bridge loan.

In addition to talking to a realtor or two, pick up the phone and call a bank to get some preliminary info. I mentioned Trustco Bank in your thread about motgages. Their fees for a regular mortgage are nearly nil, but I don't know about Bridge Loans.

While I hate talking on the phone, it's honestly a great way to get some basic info so you aren't wondering about tons of different things.

As for the living arrangement, if you go with a bridge loan, you can leave things as is. If you decide to make some changes like a shed or garage stuff, I might swap your son & dd4 since your dd11 needs privacy.  Does your other son still live with you? Is there any way he and your younger ds can share a room for a few months?

And with that, I go back to my first thought ---- the bridge loan is so much easier than trying to make changes to your current place that are only temporary. Moving is expensive as well as stressful, so any closing costs are just part of that.

Can you try a no-fee HELOC to get your equity out?  I can't remember the rules on those, though. I do know the minimum payment will be more than a bridge loan (I think they are like 2% of the balance), but if your house will sell fast, it won't be a big issue, since you should save on a bridge loan closing.

Seriously, though. Call a bank and get some rates & costs on the various loan options. It will give you info and help stem the "what if" crazies. As much as I love to plan and scheme to save money, I honestly think it won't matter in the end as far as costs but you'll wind up with much more stress if you try to think your way into an ideal situation.

 

I think this is where we are at - anything we do will cost money so fees for the bridge loan make more sense than fees for moving twice, or paying outrageous rent, or building an office, etc. 

Whn I checked a few weeks ago a LOT of banks including the one my mortgage is through were not going HELOCs right now, due to losing money with the pandemic (people not having to make mortgage payments, etc). 

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16 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I think this is where we are at - anything we do will cost money so fees for the bridge loan make more sense than fees for moving twice, or paying outrageous rent, or building an office, etc. 

Whn I checked a few weeks ago a LOT of banks including the one my mortgage is through were not going HELOCs right now, due to losing money with the pandemic (people not having to make mortgage payments, etc). 

Ah, that makes sense.

If it helps to think of this in another way, there is a chance that mortgage rates will go up. By acting now as opposed to waiting and doing renos or moving to a condo or something, you'll probably get a mortgage at a lower rate than if you wait and that would save you money in the long run.  I've been checking rates and in the last six months, they have bounced around from 2.99 to 3.25 for a few months, and are now back down to 2.99. It's not a huge jump, but a penny saved, and all that.

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