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Logic options (Nance, Memoria Press, CAP)


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I have a rising 9th grader next year and am somewhat unsure what to use for logic. I am torn between Introductory Logic by Cannon Press, Traditional Logic by Memoria Press, and Discovery of Deduction by CAP. They all have good features. My rising 9th grader is an aspiring engineer so I am not sure if that will (or should)  impact which option to choose. Has anyone compared these? What did you choose and why? I like that CAP is worth a full credit vs a half credit, but that's not a deal breaker for me. Any input is welcome!

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I have used both Introductory Logic and Traditional Logic (and also the second book in both of these) for all 4 of my children. I have 2 engineers, a nurse, and a math major. We stressed logic in my house. I don't think the CAP was even available when I chose my logic. I could not decide so we did both for the first one, and the both for the next three because I liked both of them. 

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You might want to cross-post this on the high-school board.

We did informal logic first (Art of Argument by CAP), and then Traditional Logic by Memoria Press.  Honestly part of my reasoning was I got the DVDs cheap from a friend for Traditional Logic.  😃 Also, it is super easy to implement. My oldest finds the review more than he needs, but he also has done really well on the tests because of that review. I think the added review will really help my younger son when he takes it next year.

We choose to do Traditional Logic over a full year instead of a semester. It's worth a half credit. He just has a big load so I wanted to slow it down. You can cover both Traditional Logic I and II in a year if you wish, and that would be a full credit.  

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On 4/21/2021 at 5:11 PM, LinRTX said:

I have used both Introductory Logic and Traditional Logic (and also the second book in both of these) for all 4 of my children. I have 2 engineers, a nurse, and a math major. We stressed logic in my house. I don't think the CAP was even available when I chose my logic. I could not decide so we did both for the first one, and the both for the next three because I liked both of them. 

Do you mean that you covered both Traditional Logic I and II and the Nance Introductory Logic? Do they cover the same material, or is the Nance one more material logic?

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@cintinative Yes I did both Traditional Logic I and II as well Inrtoductory and Intermediate Logic from Nance. And I did not do the analysis from the newspapers, but did do the case studies. And if this does not make sense the programs may have changed somewhat. I bought them for my first child and used the same program for all of them. The youngest was very happy she got to write in the book and not do the answers in a separate notebook. 🙂 There is a fourteen year difference between my youngest and oldest also.

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Thus far we have only done Fallacy Detective. His goal is DE starting in 10th, so I at least want to get one in this year and one next. I am having such a hard time choosing. He's planning on engineering, but I'm not sure if one type is better than the other for that.

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On 4/22/2021 at 10:32 PM, LinRTX said:

@cintinative Yes I did both Traditional Logic I and II as well Inrtoductory and Intermediate Logic from Nance. And I did not do the analysis from the newspapers, but did do the case studies. And if this does not make sense the programs may have changed somewhat. I bought them for my first child and used the same program for all of them. The youngest was very happy she got to write in the book and not do the answers in a separate notebook. 🙂 There is a fourteen year difference between my youngest and oldest also.

Would you suggest one over the other if one had to choose?

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On 4/21/2021 at 5:11 PM, LinRTX said:

I have used both Introductory Logic and Traditional Logic (and also the second book in both of these) for all 4 of my children. I have 2 engineers, a nurse, and a math major. We stressed logic in my house. I don't think the CAP was even available when I chose my logic. I could not decide so we did both for the first one, and the both for the next three because I liked both of them. 

Did you prefer one over the other?

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@TamaraG I think the Introductory and Traditional Logic both cover the about the same material. BUT if he is going into engineering I would do both Introductory and Intermediate Logic. The Intermediate Logic covers what I remember in my college Logic class for Computer Science and what my husband taught just recently in his college classes. A knowledge of this before college would be good.

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24 minutes ago, LinRTX said:

@TamaraG I think the Introductory and Traditional Logic both cover the about the same material. BUT if he is going into engineering I would do both Introductory and Intermediate Logic. The Intermediate Logic covers what I remember in my college Logic class for Computer Science and what my husband taught just recently in his college classes. A knowledge of this before college would be good.

Thank you! He will definitely do both 1 & 2, but I don't think we can swing both curriculums. Thank you so much!

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1 hour ago, LinRTX said:

@TamaraG I think the Introductory and Traditional Logic both cover the about the same material. BUT if he is going into engineering I would do both Introductory and Intermediate Logic. The Intermediate Logic covers what I remember in my college Logic class for Computer Science and what my husband taught just recently in his college classes. A knowledge of this before college would be good.

One more question - when I look on the Logos Press website it says they recommend Introductory Logic by Nance for 7th grade. Will it be too kiddish for a rising 9th grader? 

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2 hours ago, TamaraG said:

One more question - when I look on the Logos Press website it says they recommend Introductory Logic by Nance for 7th grade. Will it be too kiddish for a rising 9th grader? 

Well I have the Intermediate book beside me and I have a note on it to do 2nd half of 9th grade. (I have to look at the book since my youngest is now finishing her junior year of college). I think it will be fine if you do Introductory the first half of the year and then Intermediate. Rainbow Resources says this book is for 7-12th grade. I think I have done the Introductory one in the ninth grade for some of mine. It should be fine.

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9 hours ago, LinRTX said:

Well I have the Intermediate book beside me and I have a note on it to do 2nd half of 9th grade. (I have to look at the book since my youngest is now finishing her junior year of college). I think it will be fine if you do Introductory the first half of the year and then Intermediate. Rainbow Resources says this book is for 7-12th grade. I think I have done the Introductory one in the ninth grade for some of mine. It should be fine.

Thank you so much!

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My understanding of CAP's logic sequence is it goes Art of Argument, Discovery of Deduction, and the Argument Builder. Art of Argument is valuable info to know and a very fun read with lots of fake ads. I am doing it with a 5th grader and he is loving it and breezing through it quickly. With a 9th grader it could be very quick and fun and you could move on after only a month or so to Discovery of Deduction, which many people say is much more difficult and probably age appropriate. 

Have you see the James Madison logic course from Critical Thinking Company? This was recommended to me by people on this board, especially in the AL group. It looks extremely comprehensive. I am planning on doing this after Art of Argument and seeing how my kid does. I think 9th grade would be right in the wheelhouse of the intended ages and still very challenging, and I think it has a crime/forensic story line or approach. 

https://www.criticalthinking.com/james-madison-critical-thinking-course-student-book.html

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2 hours ago, Emily ZL said:

My understanding of CAP's logic sequence is it goes Art of Argument, Discovery of Deduction, and the Argument Builder. Art of Argument is valuable info to know and a very fun read with lots of fake ads. I am doing it with a 5th grader and he is loving it and breezing through it quickly. With a 9th grader it could be very quick and fun and you could move on after only a month or so to Discovery of Deduction, which many people say is much more difficult and probably age appropriate. 

Have you see the James Madison logic course from Critical Thinking Company? This was recommended to me by people on this board, especially in the AL group. It looks extremely comprehensive. I am planning on doing this after Art of Argument and seeing how my kid does. I think 9th grade would be right in the wheelhouse of the intended ages and still very challenging, and I think it has a crime/forensic story line or approach. 

https://www.criticalthinking.com/james-madison-critical-thinking-course-student-book.html

I will check it out. Thank you!

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