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News: Pfizer CEO says third Covid vaccine dose likely needed within 12 months


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Another question I have about boosters (if they become the norm):  Will we always need to have the same vaccine type?  That is, if we started with Pfizer, will we be required to have Pfizer forever more in order for it to remain fully effective?  Probably that question cannot even be answered yet.

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13 minutes ago, J-rap said:

I agree this is a problem.  I'm sure some companies are better at managing this than others, and for some very small businesses, it would be hard to promise much.  My dd (who works at a large company) was given two weeks paid Covid leave (for anything Covid-related, including caregiving for family members), and she's using them for her vaccine days.  This is apart from any other paid sick live or personal time off. 

But even apart from that, who wants to get sick every year from a vaccine?  It's a yucky thing to look forward to, even if you're a huge supporter of vaccines.  

I was reading an article the other day that was saying that scientists hope to be able to narrow the focus of any needed boosters so much that the side effects will be very minimal.  I've been trying to find it again, but can't.  

NY supposedly has all kinds of Covid leave but it takes a long time to go through.  Your company has to contract with an insurance. Ours uses Unum which does workers compensation and paid family leave as well.  It was absolutely ridiculous to deal with.  It took 8 weeks for me to get the paid leave from when I had Covid and then had to quarantine my kids for a month.  I had to quarantine my daughter for a week and a half in January and take time off then, which used up my sick leave for the year.  I never got the state Covid leave for that.   One coworker, who is male, had Covid in October and Unum kept asking him when his due date was.  I can absorb the month without pay, but a whole lot of people can’t. My cousin, a single mom with no support from the kids’ father, is a phlebotomist making $14 an hour.  She’s in the nursing homes and the hospitals, but hasn’t gotten vaccinated. She had to quarantine with her kids after one caught Covid, and used all available sick and vacation time for the year. She should have been given Covid pay/leave from the state, but it never seemed to go through. So she hasn’t gotten vaccinated because she literally cannot afford to take time off without pay, even just a day or two if she gets bad side effects. She’s terrified of catching Covid, not because of the health effects, but because she literally will have no money(truthfully family will help her financially but it’s a real fear for her). 

It all needs to be streamlined. We need affordable health care and much easier to get sick leave. 

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1 hour ago, J-rap said:

Another question I have about boosters (if they become the norm):  Will we always need to have the same vaccine type?  That is, if we started with Pfizer, will we be required to have Pfizer forever more in order for it to remain fully effective?  Probably that question cannot even be answered yet.

I *believe* I've read that there are studies underway to help determine that.

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1 hour ago, J-rap said:

Another question I have about boosters (if they become the norm):  Will we always need to have the same vaccine type?  That is, if we started with Pfizer, will we be required to have Pfizer forever more in order for it to remain fully effective?  Probably that question cannot even be answered yet.

People are being told to get the same brand for the first and second shots just because there isn't any safety or efficacy data yet on mixing shots, just like we (in the US) are being told to stick to the 3 or 4 week interval between shots and not spread them out more, because that's how the trials were done and the vaccines were approved based on those trials. But in the UK and some other countries they are purposely spreading them out, after the botched Brazilian trial of AZ accidentally spread them out and found that the longer interval may even have worked better (for AZ at least).

There is a current study in the UK on mixing doses from different manufacturers, and even different types of vaccines (e.g. AZ + mRNA), and there is a study in Azerbaijan that combines AZ and Sputnik. So it's likely that people will be able to get boosters from different manufacturers once we have some data on that.

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I was thinking about this revaccination.   Supposedly over the course of the next year those vaccinated would get potentially exposed a number of times to covid and are not likely to get a symptomatic infection.  I am wondering if that response would carry over to a booster vaccine and be less likely to cause side affects in the future? At least for a majority.  Like I personally have had the flu, I have never really reacted to the flu vaccine. I assume they will want to boost people before the average immunity would drop super low.  Just musing.  

I do absolutely agree employers should suck it up for people to get the vaccine in general and just be better about sick leave and family needs in general.  

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23 hours ago, Arcadia said:

 

Antibody Persistence Data out to 6 Months Published in The New England Journal of Medicine

Antibody persistence data out to 6 months following the second dose of the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine were recently published in The New England Journal of Medicine. This study analyzed 33 healthy adult participants in the NIH-led Phase 1 study of Moderna’s COVID-19 Vaccine at 6 months following the second 100 μg dose (day 209). As detected by three distinct serologic assays, antibodies elicited by the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine persisted through 6 months after the second dose. Antibody decay was estimated using two approaches and was consistent with published observations of convalescent patients with COVID-19 through 8 months after symptom onset.“

This data is part of the reason why some are saying that we will NOT need yearly boosters. The levels of antibody from both natural infection and vaccination are very strong at 8 months and 6 months respectively. 
In the natural infection studies, people are still being followed, and the antibody levels at 8 months are at the levels that would suggest, from what is known about immunology with other viruses, that protection will last for years.

So it might be that we need boosters, but maybe after several years. Or the booster may just be a periodic update if/when the virus mutates enough to evade immunity. And it may be only for certain groups, if it turns out that elderly people don’t have as long-lasting of a response, for example. 

2 hours ago, J-rap said:

Another question I have about boosters (if they become the norm):  Will we always need to have the same vaccine type?  That is, if we started with Pfizer, will we be required to have Pfizer forever more in order for it to remain fully effective?  Probably that question cannot even be answered yet.

I don’t know why that would be. Except for the whole- virus vaccines that aren’t being used in the West, all the vaccines are delivering the same spike protein. No one knows which flu vaccine they get every year, right? There are several different companies that make them, and you get what you get. 

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7 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I was thinking about this revaccination.   Supposedly over the course of the next year those vaccinated would get potentially exposed a number of times to covid and are not likely to get a symptomatic infection.  I am wondering if that response would carry over to a booster vaccine and be less likely to cause side affects in the future? At least for a majority.  Like I personally have had the flu, I have never really reacted to the flu vaccine. I assume they will want to boost people before the average immunity would drop super low.  Just musing.  

I do absolutely agree employers should suck it up for people to get the vaccine in general and just be better about sick leave and family needs in general.  

Maybe boosters will not need as high of a dose. Or maybe they will find that a different type of vaccine (not spike protein only) is better for a booster.

Or maybe we will have Novavax and several more vaccines like it, that don’t seem to have as many side effects and won’t have the mRNA storage issues, so we’ll all be getting those. Maybe mRNA won’t be the popular kid in the group anymore once there are many more options, and those companies will move on to other vaccines or therapies. 

Edited by Penelope
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24 minutes ago, Penelope said:

This data is part of the reason why some are saying that we will NOT need yearly boosters. The levels of antibody from both natural infection and vaccination are very strong at 8 months and 6 months respectively. 
In the natural infection studies, people are still being followed, and the antibody levels at 8 months are at the levels that would suggest, from what is known about immunology with other viruses, that protection will last for years.

So it might be that we need boosters, but maybe after several years. Or the booster may just be a periodic update if/when the virus mutates enough to evade immunity. And it may be only for certain groups, if it turns out that elderly people don’t have as long-lasting of a response, for example. 

I don’t know why that would be. Except for the whole- virus vaccines that aren’t being used in the West, all the vaccines are delivering the same spike protein. No one knows which flu vaccine they get every year, right? There are several different companies that make them, and you get what you get. 

Except that if the different vaccines affect your defense mechanism differently and kind of train it along those lines, does that matter?  Although it does seem that at least Pfizer and J&J work with your body in similar ways.

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4 minutes ago, J-rap said:

Except that if the different vaccines affect your defense mechanism differently and kind of train it along those lines, does that matter?  Although it does seem that at least Pfizer and J&J work with your body in similar ways.

Do you mean, different amounts of T-cell responses, or something like that? I don’t know, except that Pfizer and JNJ look better for CD8+ responses than Moderna, so maybe there are some differences. That is way above my pay grade to understand all of that, so I don’t know. 
I just know that for all the vaccines we have where boosters are given, there are usually a couple different companies making similar products, and with a few exceptions, I am pretty sure there are no restrictions on which one is given. 
 

One factor that might affect the need for boosters is the amount of circulating virus that sticks around. If we encounter the virus again after vaccinating or natural infection, our immune system gets boosted even if the infection is asymptomatic for us. So that maybe vaccination plus endemicity will result in long-lasting immunity for most. I do think that Big Pharma talking about this already is a little bit tone-deaf, when a lot of people still are not fully vaccinated with their first dose, and with much of the rest of the world still not able to vaccinate their populations even by the next winter season.
 

 

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Needing a booster at some point was something I fully expected so this doesn't surprise me at all.  It is also fine with me.  Anything that brings protection from Covid is good in my book.  My family will raise our sleeves and happily receive our booster shots.

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I will take a booster as well, though I hope it doesn't make me feel as poorly as I did after Pfizer 1.  I'm going to drink a ton of water in the days leading up to my second shot in hopes it will be easier.

This isn't to say that I'm ungrateful.  I'll take the second shot and a booster when recommended with thanksgiving in my heart - and positive words on my lips.  I didn't share how sick I felt with anyone other than my family, who knew anyway because they live with me.

I'm still not looking forward to feeling like I have the flu.

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