News: Pfizer CEO says third Covid vaccine dose likely needed within 12 months

[Arcadia]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/pfizer-ceo-says-third-covid-vaccine-dose-likely-needed-within-12-months.html
“Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said people will “likely” need a third dose of a Covid-19 vaccine within 12 months of getting fully vaccinated. His comments were made public Thursday but were taped April 1.

He also said it’s possible people will need to get vaccinated against the coronavirus annually.

...

The comment comes after Johnson & Johnson CEO Alex Gorsky told CNBC in February that people may need to get vaccinated against Covid-19 annually, just like seasonal flu shots.

Researchers still don’t know how long protection against the virus lasts once someone has been fully vaccinated.

...

In February, Pfizer and BioNTech said they were testing a third dose of their Covid-19 vaccine to better understand the immune response against new variants of the virus.

Late last month, the National Institutes of Health started testing a new vaccine from Moderna designed to protect against a problematic variant first found in South Africa.

Moderna CEO Stephane Bancel told CNBC on Wednesday that the company hopes to have a booster shot for its two-dose vaccine available in the fall.“

@Lanny

[Kassia]

I wonder what kind of reactions these will cause compared to the first two doses.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't see this as surprising news.   But eventually as more people get vaccinated and it's less "out there in the wild" and people start to also build up natural immunity and as (hopefully) more mutations occur that might make this even less deadly, then it won't be such a big deal. 

[Garga]

I remember reading at some point in the past year, that boosters might have to be given anywhere from every 4 months to every year. So, hearing them say we might need to do this yearly isn’t a surprise. Sounds like the “every 4 months” speculation is off the table, so “every 12 months” sounds much better to me.

[WildflowerMom]

I'm not surprised, but this is really NOT the news I want to read while I'm recovering from dose 2.  😆

 

[EKS]

3 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

I'm not surprised, but this is really NOT the news I want to read while I'm recovering from dose 2.  😆

 

I know what you mean.  It wasn't the worst thing in the world, but it definitely put me off my game for a few days.  

[vonfirmath]

Just now, Seasider too said:

 

I am glad my second dose is scheduled for a Friday morning! Dare I hope for a rainy weekend?

I’m Pfizer, and older, hoping my reaction to the second dose won’t be too icky. 

My parents had no reaction to Pfizer at all (either dose). It was actually a little concerning.

[Acadie]

19 minutes ago, EKS said:

I know what you mean.  It wasn't the worst thing in the world, but it definitely put me off my game for a few days.  

I had 24 hours of flu-like symptoms after my 2nd shot, but it was a good 4 days before I felt energetic and mentally sharp again. This morning, actually--and what a relief!

I'm bummed that we'll probably need to do this annually. My family doesn't do annual flu shots but our risk-benefit calculation is different for Covid. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Acadie

[Kassia]

31 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

I'm not surprised, but this is really NOT the news I want to read while I'm recovering from dose 2.  😆

 

I was thinking the same thing!  😛

 

 

18 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

My parents had no reaction to Pfizer at all (either dose). It was actually a little concerning.

I've read that older people tend to not have reactions because their immune systems aren't as robust due to their age.  

[bluemongoose]

I had a horrible headache for 24hours after the first Pfizer dose. I am not looking forward to the symptoms from the next one. It is a bummer it will be yearly, but still worth it over COVID, especially long COVID. 

[chiguirre]

Me too! I got my second Moderna shot yesterday and I'm dragging today. I feel like I'm getting the flu. If it becomes a yearly thing, I'll have to schedule on a Friday and hole up for the weekend.

[Penelope]

This may well be the case, but I’m going to wait for someone other than the Pfizer CEO to make that recommendation to me. 😏

I wonder what prompted this “announcement.” Is it time for a shareholder meeting?

I think we are some way away from knowing whether this will be true or not.

[MercyA]

My parents (late 60's) also had no reactions whatsoever to their first or second shots. My mom was worried about it. She was like, "What if they just injected me with water?" (Anxiety has no logic.) Good to know other older people are experiencing the same.

My arm still has itchy bumps six days past my 2nd Pfizer dose, but I'm otherwise a-okay. Whatever it takes. 

[catz]

Honestly, I kind of wonder what prompted the announcement too, shortly after the data came out about things still looking really great at 6 months for holding immunity.   If it is about variants, I wish they wouldn't beat around the bush about and say that.  Moderna's variant booster is in the works and going to be out by fall.   Fauci actually said this month he wouldn't be surprise if initial immunity lasts 2-3 years based on ongoing data and because they saw similar with SARS/MERS data.  But again, chasing down potential variant breakthroughs while we try to get numbers down world side is a different discussion. I'm just a bit curious about the timing and the messenger.  

I am really hoping these initial exposures are the worst we get!  DH and I get pfizer 1 next week, appointments are still really full and hard to come by in our metro.  My dd had zero issues with her pfizer 1 (which I drove a long way to get).  

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Penelope said:

This may well be the case, but I’m going to wait for someone other than the Pfizer CEO to make that recommendation to me. 😏

I wonder what prompted this “announcement.” Is it time for a shareholder meeting?

I think we are some way away from knowing whether this will be true or not.

Well, and they don't actually give the full quote about it being yearly. That part about it being yearly the only word they quoted was "likely" and I'd really appreciate seeing his full statement. Later, they quote him saying boosters may become needed, but in those full quotes he doesn't say anything about a yearly thing. 

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, Penelope said:

This may well be the case, but I’m going to wait for someone other than the Pfizer CEO to make that recommendation to me. 😏

I wonder what prompted this “announcement.” Is it time for a shareholder meeting?

 

38 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Honestly, I kind of wonder what prompted the announcement too, shortly after the data came out about things still looking really great at 6 months for holding immunity.   If it is about variants, I wish they wouldn't beat around the bush about and say that

 

To be fair, this really wasn't an "announcement," the question was raised by a CNBC interviewer who said that some vaccines like polio are one-&-done and others are annual like the flu vaccine, and she specifically asked Bourla whether he thought we would need additional doses of the covid vaccines. He replied that covid is more like the flu than polio and he thought it was likely that we would need annual boosters for covid, but that we really don't know yet and the variants are the key factor.

You can see the full interview here, the question about revaccination starts around the 12 minute mark:
https://cvshealth.com/news-and-insights/articles/cvs-health-live-the-race-to-vaccinate

[Spy Car]

4 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

 

 

To be fair, this really wasn't an "announcement," the question was raised by a CNBC interviewer who said that some vaccines like polio are one-&-done and others are annual like the flu vaccine, and she specifically asked Bourla whether he thought we would need additional doses of the covid vaccines. He replied that covid is more like the flu than polio and he thought it was likely that we would need annual boosters for covid, but that we really don't know yet and the variants are the key factor.

You can see the full interview here, the question about revaccination starts around the 12 minute mark:
https://cvshealth.com/news-and-insights/articles/cvs-health-live-the-race-to-vaccinate

Thank you for providing the perspective.

Bill

[Plateau Mama]

I have always thought it would have to be an annual shot.  My guess is they will end up combining it with the flu shot so you are only getting one shot a year.  Like the did with H1N1 for a few years.

[Penelope]

2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

 

 

To be fair, this really wasn't an "announcement," the question was raised by a CNBC interviewer who said that some vaccines like polio are one-&-done and others are annual like the flu vaccine, and she specifically asked Bourla whether he thought we would need additional doses of the covid vaccines. He replied that covid is more like the flu than polio and he thought it was likely that we would need annual boosters for covid, but that we really don't know yet and the variants are the key factor.

You can see the full interview here, the question about revaccination starts around the 12 minute mark:
https://cvshealth.com/news-and-insights/articles/cvs-health-live-the-race-to-vaccinate

Oh, that’s good info.

It begs the question of why CVS is asking the head of a pharma company about boosters, and why the outlets reporting on it didn’t bother to include another quote about the question of boosters, but from someone in public health.

[LucyStoner]

6 hours ago, Seasider too said:

I had the achy-arm after round one. I’ve heard of several older folks having little to no reactions after the second shot. 

My dad had no reaction after the second shot (he’s 78).  My brother (38) had a fever and the predicted symptoms for a couple of days after his second shot.  

[Roadrunner]

Well, I was as in bed with fever and chills after the second dose of Moderna. And I had a Covid arm for several days. But it’s OK. The fever only lasted a day.

I can deal with this once a year if I need to. 

[Tanaqui]

Once a year is doable. Once every four months... I mean, it ought to be doable, but it'd be a real slog, actually.

[Lanny]

I believe it is almost positive that booster shots will be required for all of these COVID-19 vaccines. I believe a month or so ago that Moderna (?) said that their trials at this time show the first 2 injections provide immunity for approximately 6 months?  It may be longer than that and they will know, as the trials continue, more about how long the protection lasts.

A childhood friend and his wife, in the USA, had either the Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna vaccines and I remember him writing, a month or so ago, that he was contemplating getting a booster in about 6 months.  (I think they had the Pfizer/BioNTech but I also know people who've had Moderna and one cousin had the Janssen (J&J) injection on April 1st)

[PaxEtLux]

1 hour ago, Lanny said:

I believe a month or so ago that Moderna (?) said that their trials at this time show the first 2 injections provide immunity for approximately 6 months?

 

Please, let's not spread fake news.

The actual report was, after 6 months of trials, the vaccine still provided protection.  The trials had only been running for about six months, so there was only six months' worth of data.  So, all that could be said was that the vaccine provides at least six months of protection.  The vaccines could completely lose all efficacy at 6 months and one day (unlikely), or they could last forever (also unlikely).

[J-rap]

19 hours ago, vonfirmath said:

My parents had no reaction to Pfizer at all (either dose). It was actually a little concerning.

I've heard that younger people often have more of a reaction than older people.  My dh and I had mild flu-like reactions, and my very elderly parents (in their 90's) had none at all.  I felt kind of glad that I had a reaction!  (Because I'm really not in the younger category. ☺️)  

[J-rap]

17 hours ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Honestly, I kind of wonder what prompted the announcement too, shortly after the data came out about things still looking really great at 6 months for holding immunity.   If it is about variants, I wish they wouldn't beat around the bush about and say that.  Moderna's variant booster is in the works and going to be out by fall.   Fauci actually said this month he wouldn't be surprise if initial immunity lasts 2-3 years based on ongoing data and because they saw similar with SARS/MERS data.  But again, chasing down potential variant breakthroughs while we try to get numbers down world side is a different discussion. I'm just a bit curious about the timing and the messenger.  

I am really hoping these initial exposures are the worst we get!  DH and I get pfizer 1 next week, appointments are still really full and hard to come by in our metro.  My dd had zero issues with her pfizer 1 (which I drove a long way to get).  

I've felt the same about a lot of these announcements.  I'm sure they're trying to just be honest so they're not accused of anything, but I've often thought their headline wording and timing has the opposite effect of showing what's really happening.  

[J-rap]

I'm another one not surprised at all by this news.  During my second vaccine appointment, I heard the pharmacist say that Pfizer was already working on a combined Covid/flu vaccine.  

I do get weary of people complaining about the negative (oh no - an annual booster!) rather than the positive (wow, scientists came up with a vaccine already!!).

[vonfirmath]

3 minutes ago, J-rap said:

I'm another one not surprised at all by this news.  During my second vaccine appointment, I heard the pharmacist say that Pfizer was already working on a combined Covid/flu vaccine.  

I do get weary of people complaining about the negative (oh no - an annual booster!) rather than the positive (wow, scientists came up with a vaccine already!!).

I can understand the negative on this one since the vaccine is having such pronounced side effects. Its a whole lot harder to get excited about an annual vaccine that will make you sick for a couple of days.

 

[J-rap]

3 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

I can understand the negative on this one since the vaccine is having such pronounced side effects. Its a whole lot harder to get excited about an annual vaccine that will make you sick for a couple of days.

 

Yeah, that's a good point.  I wonder if a booster would be lighter on side-effects?

[DoraBora]

24 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

I can understand the negative on this one since the vaccine is having such pronounced side effects. Its a whole lot harder to get excited about an annual vaccine that will make you sick for a couple of days.

 

Yeah.  We can't all get the booster on a Friday and have the weekend to recover.

[WildflowerMom]

I'll be honest...  if the booster has the same reported side effects as the second vax, I just don't know if I can do it again.   I'll wait until others weigh in on how they feel afterwards.   

[Penelope]

I’m thinking about the logistics.

Look how long it is taking to just vaccinate most, not all, adults. And it’s a superhuman effort, which is some areas is taking away from other things that public health normally does. Now I know that if boosters were recommended every year, we’d build more infrastructure for that so that it could go somewhat faster. But is it really realistic to think everyone will get a booster every year? Especially if this becomes seasonal, which some seem to think it will be. I guess over time, it could be more like the flu shot, where even more people choose not to get one. 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Penelope

[Garga]

1 hour ago, Penelope said:

I’m thinking about the logistics.

Look how long it is taking to just vaccinate most, not all, adults. And it’s a superhuman effort, which is some areas is taking away from other things that public health normally does. Now I know that if boosters were recommended every year, we’d build more infrastructure for that so that it could go somewhat faster. But is it really realistic to think everyone will get a booster every year? Especially if this becomes seasonal, which some seem to think it will be. I guess over time, it could be more like the flu shot, where even more people choose not to get one. 

Yes, I think of that, too. Some people choose not to get vaccines because they don’t want to, and for others it’s a struggle to get off work and get the vaccine, especially if they’ll be out of work for a day or two afterwards. So, they’ll skip it even if they know it’s risky.

I think it’ll become one of those things where hospitals will expand to prepare for the yearly influx of covid patients and people who are able to and want to get a vaccine will. There will still be cases and deaths, but not as many as with no vaccination at all. I don’t see covid going away. It’ll be here forever. At least there is a chance to protect yourself against it now, though. But for very poor people, that chance might be more difficult to attain.

[Lucy the Valiant]

On 4/15/2021 at 2:44 PM, Arcadia said:

Researchers still don’t know how long protection against the virus lasts once someone has been fully vaccinated.

May I ask a (probably dumb) question? How will researchers learn this information?

(I apologize for non-medical terminology; I'm working really hard to understand this.) As I understand it, those who are fully vaccinated can still GET covid, right, and even pass it on? Maybe? But the vaccine renders covid *for that person* non-fatal. And it teaches the immune system to recognize the spike protein, and to respond with neutralizing antibodies? So, when they test for antibodies, they can tell that the test subjects WERE vaccinated, but . . . the question is how long those memory cells will still be able to create the antibodies, right? (Does [able to create specific antibodies] = [immune]?) So - will people who are fully vaccinated have to start . . . dying? being hospitalized? . . . how will researchers learn the length of the immunity conferred by the vaccine? 

I have the same question for the antibodies generated by natural infection with the virus; people close to me still have active antibodies 9 months later, so - that seems to contraindicate the need for a vaccine? Are they (medically speaking) the same as the fully-vaccinated people? That is, possibly able to get re-infected (rare) or infected with a different strain, but likely "immune" from serious complications? 

[Arcadia]

7 minutes ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

May I ask a (probably dumb) question? How will researchers learn this information?

I have no idea but my guess would be long term studies. For example, I have a BCG vaccination for TB in 6th grade and then get tested for whether I need a booster in 10th grade in Asia. So my country of origin would have plenty of data on the need for boosters. 
 

@wathe@TCB maybe you can give an explanation?

[ktgrok]

8 hours ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

May I ask a (probably dumb) question? How will researchers learn this information?

(I apologize for non-medical terminology; I'm working really hard to understand this.) As I understand it, those who are fully vaccinated can still GET covid, right, and even pass it on? Maybe? But the vaccine renders covid *for that person* non-fatal. And it teaches the immune system to recognize the spike protein, and to respond with neutralizing antibodies? So, when they test for antibodies, they can tell that the test subjects WERE vaccinated, but . . . the question is how long those memory cells will still be able to create the antibodies, right? (Does [able to create specific antibodies] = [immune]?) So - will people who are fully vaccinated have to start . . . dying? being hospitalized? . . . how will researchers learn the length of the immunity conferred by the vaccine? 

I have the same question for the antibodies generated by natural infection with the virus; people close to me still have active antibodies 9 months later, so - that seems to contraindicate the need for a vaccine? Are they (medically speaking) the same as the fully-vaccinated people? That is, possibly able to get re-infected (rare) or infected with a different strain, but likely "immune" from serious complications? 

To the second question, antibody levels are higher in vaccinated people than previous infection people. Recently it was published that previously infected plus one vaccine was equal to a non infected person getting two doses of the vaccine. 

As to how they will tell, testing is ongoing. They are checking antibody levels, and monitoring if people get covid. The people in the initial trials will have their antibody levels fade before the rest of the public, since they got it first (and they can distinguish between the antibody to the virus and from natural infection to make sure they are monitoring the right thing). If/when levels start to lower too much they will then recommend boosters. Those initial trial subjects are our canary in the coal mine. 

Also, the MRNA vaccines at least seem to prevent actual infection in most people (90% or more), not just symptoms. 

[J-rap]

21 hours ago, WildflowerMom said:

I'll be honest...  if the booster has the same reported side effects as the second vax, I just don't know if I can do it again.   I'll wait until others weigh in on how they feel afterwards.   

I was just reading today that they're working on a booster that has much lighter side-effects.  Hopefully!  🤞

[Corraleno]

20 hours ago, Penelope said:

I’m thinking about the logistics.

Look how long it is taking to just vaccinate most, not all, adults. And it’s a superhuman effort, which is some areas is taking away from other things that public health normally does. Now I know that if boosters were recommended every year, we’d build more infrastructure for that so that it could go somewhat faster. But is it really realistic to think everyone will get a booster every year? Especially if this becomes seasonal, which some seem to think it will be. I guess over time, it could be more like the flu shot, where even more people choose not to get one. 

But the main reason covid vaccination is taking so long is lack of supply, not lack of infrastructure. For example, my state has said they have the capacity to handle 3-4 times as many shots per day if they could just get the doses. And a covid booster would only be one shot, not two.

We already vaccinate approximately 50% of the population for flu every year, just with pharmacies and local providers, so the infrastructure is there. If there's a combined flu-covid vaccine available, you'd probably get the usual 50% who get the flu vaccine plus another 20% or so because of covid. I think the current polls generally show around 25% of the population that say they will never get the covid vaccine, so hopefully we could get around 70% to take a booster, especially if side effects are lower than the first set of shots.

[Arcadia]

Trial for the 12 and under. https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-announces-first-participants-dosed-phase-23-study-0

“Moderna Announces First Participants Dosed in Phase 2/3 Study of COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate in Pediatric Population

March 16, 2021 at 6:59 AM EDT

Phase 2/3 study expected to enroll 6,750 healthy pediatric participants less than 12 years of age 

Study will enroll in the U.S. and Canada

CAMBRIDGE, Mass.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Mar. 16, 2021-- Moderna Inc. (Nasdaq: MRNA), a biotechnology company pioneering messenger RNA (mRNA) therapeutics and vaccines, today announced that the first participants have been dosed in the Phase 2/3 study, called the KidCOVE study, of mRNA-1273, the Company’s vaccine candidate against COVID-19, in children ages 6 months to less than 12 years.

...

This Phase 2/3 two-part, open label, dose-escalation, age de-escalation (Part 1) and randomized, observer-blind, placebo-controlled expansion study (Part 2) will evaluate the safety, tolerability, reactogenicity and effectiveness of two doses of mRNA-1273 given 28 days apart. The Company intends to enroll approximately 6,750 pediatric participants in the U.S.and Canada ages 6 months to less than 12 years.

In Part 1, each participant ages two years to less than 12 years may receive one of two dose levels (50 μg or 100 μg). Also in Part 1, each participant ages six months to less than 2 years may receive one of three dose levels (25 μg, 50 μg and 100 μg). An interim analysis will be conducted to determine which dose will be used in Part 2, the placebo-controlled expansion portion of the study. Participants will be followed through 12 months after the second vaccination. Vaccine effectiveness will either be inferred through achieving a correlate of protection, if established, or through immunobridging to the young adult (ages 18-25) population. Evaluation of vaccine safety and reactogenicity is also a primary endpoint of the study. The ClinicalTrials.gov identifier is NCT04796896. For more information about the trial, including the process for enrolling participants, please visit www.kidcovestudy.com.“

[Arcadia]

@Lucy the Valiant

News link https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-provides-clinical-and-supply-updates-covid-19-vaccine

study link: Antibody Persistence through 6 Months after the Second Dose of mRNA-1273 Vaccine for Covid-19 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2103916

“April 13, 2021 at 4:29 PM EDT

Phase 3 COVE Study: Updated cases show continued strong efficacy, including greater than 90% against cases of COVID-19 and greater than 95% against severe cases of COVID-19, with approximately 6 months median follow-up post dose 2

Antibody persistence data out to 6 months published in The New England Journal of Medicine

New preclinical data shows variant-specific booster vaccine candidates (mRNA-1273.351 and mRNA-1273.211) increase neutralizing titers against SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern

... “The Moderna team continues to make important progress with our COVID-19 Vaccine. We are looking forward to having the clinical data from our variant-specific booster candidates, as well as clinical data from the Phase 2/3 study of our COVID-19 Vaccine in adolescents,” said Stéphane Bancel, Chief Executive Officer of Moderna. “The new preclinical data on our variant-specific vaccine candidates give us confidence that we can proactively address emerging variants. Moderna will make as many updates to our COVID-19 vaccine as necessary until the pandemic is under control.”

... The Phase 2/3 TeenCOVE study of mRNA-1273 at the 100 µg dose level in adolescents ages 12-17 is fully enrolled with approximately 3,000 participants in the U.S.

...

Antibody Persistence Data out to 6 Months Published in The New England Journal of Medicine

Antibody persistence data out to 6 months following the second dose of the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine were recently published in The New England Journal of Medicine. This study analyzed 33 healthy adult participants in the NIH-led Phase 1 study of Moderna’s COVID-19 Vaccine at 6 months following the second 100 μg dose (day 209). As detected by three distinct serologic assays, antibodies elicited by the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine persisted through 6 months after the second dose. Antibody decay was estimated using two approaches and was consistent with published observations of convalescent patients with COVID-19 through 8 months after symptom onset.“

[kiwik]

On 4/16/2021 at 7:25 AM, Seasider too said:

Team no surprise here. I fully expected an annual boost with coverage for variants, same as the flu shot. 

Me too.  Not everyone gets the flu vaccine here but I would expect those that quality would also be given an updated Covid vaccine.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

On 4/16/2021 at 11:41 AM, vonfirmath said:

I can understand the negative on this one since the vaccine is having such pronounced side effects. Its a whole lot harder to get excited about an annual vaccine that will make you sick for a couple of days.

 

I actually really wish there was more discussion about the side effects. I don’t mean to throw the word “privilege” around, but society needs to be honest that it’s truly a privilege to be able to get sick for 2-3 days after a vaccine once or twice a year.  
I work as a paramedic in a city of around 30,000, so not that big.  But it’s poor.  The poverty and violence rates are high.  Near poverty levels are crushing.  We are doing a lot of calling people who had one shot who haven’t made an appointment or shown up for the second shot when they did have an appointment.

The number one reason for the under 60 crowd is they cannot afford to get sick for two days.  They can’t take time off work or caregiving duties. I personally had to call off work after my second moderna shot.  Not everyone can afford that. And NY has mandatory paid sick leave for most people now, even part time workers, but it’s April and many people have already gone through theirs. Especially lower income workers.

[KungFuPanda]

21 hours ago, Corraleno said:

But the main reason covid vaccination is taking so long is lack of supply, not lack of infrastructure. For example, my state has said they have the capacity to handle 3-4 times as many shots per day if they could just get the doses. And a covid booster would only be one shot, not two.

We already vaccinate approximately 50% of the population for flu every year, just with pharmacies and local providers, so the infrastructure is there. If there's a combined flu-covid vaccine available, you'd probably get the usual 50% who get the flu vaccine plus another 20% or so because of covid. I think the current polls generally show around 25% of the population that say they will never get the covid vaccine, so hopefully we could get around 70% to take a booster, especially if side effects are lower than the first set of shots.

I agree that this is definitely a supply issue.  If that's resolved, I imagine PCPs (I'm not hearing of ANY of them giving doses), health departments, and pharmacies can handle administration.  If you add some mass vax sites run by the National Guard, it's definitely doable.  The Guard was a VERY efficient machine here, but they only had so many doses to distribute and now that they're down a vaccine, it's even tougher.  I know in Maryland only 1/4 of the population is fully vaccinated.  Even if you subtract ineligible children and those who don't want the vaccine, that's still a lot of willing people waiting for their shots. 

[J-rap]

32 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I actually really wish there was more discussion about the side effects. I don’t mean to throw the word “privilege” around, but society needs to be honest that it’s truly a privilege to be able to get sick for 2-3 days after a vaccine once or twice a year.  
I work as a paramedic in a city of around 30,000, so not that big.  But it’s poor.  The poverty and violence rates are high.  Near poverty levels are crushing.  We are doing a lot of calling people who had one shot who haven’t made an appointment or shown up for the second shot when they did have an appointment.

The number one reason for the under 60 crowd is they cannot afford to get sick for two days.  They can’t take time off work or caregiving duties. I personally had to call off work after my second moderna shot.  Not everyone can afford that. And NY has mandatory paid sick leave for most people now, even part time workers, but it’s April and many people have already gone through theirs. Especially lower income workers.

I agree this is a problem.  I'm sure some companies are better at managing this than others, and for some very small businesses, it would be hard to promise much.  My dd (who works at a large company) was given two weeks paid Covid leave (for anything Covid-related, including caregiving for family members), and she's using them for her vaccine days.  This is apart from any other paid sick live or personal time off. 

But even apart from that, who wants to get sick every year from a vaccine?  It's a yucky thing to look forward to, even if you're a huge supporter of vaccines.  

I was reading an article the other day that was saying that scientists hope to be able to narrow the focus of any needed boosters so much that the side effects will be very minimal.  I've been trying to find it again, but can't.  

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I actually really wish there was more discussion about the side effects. I don’t mean to throw the word “privilege” around, but society needs to be honest that it’s truly a privilege to be able to get sick for 2-3 days after a vaccine once or twice a year.  
I work as a paramedic in a city of around 30,000, so not that big.  But it’s poor.  The poverty and violence rates are high.  Near poverty levels are crushing.  We are doing a lot of calling people who had one shot who haven’t made an appointment or shown up for the second shot when they did have an appointment.

The number one reason for the under 60 crowd is they cannot afford to get sick for two days.  They can’t take time off work or caregiving duties. I personally had to call off work after my second moderna shot.  Not everyone can afford that. And NY has mandatory paid sick leave for most people now, even part time workers, but it’s April and many people have already gone through theirs. Especially lower income workers.

Do we need something like paid vaccination leave?  

[Soror]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I actually really wish there was more discussion about the side effects. I don’t mean to throw the word “privilege” around, but society needs to be honest that it’s truly a privilege to be able to get sick for 2-3 days after a vaccine once or twice a year.  
I work as a paramedic in a city of around 30,000, so not that big.  But it’s poor.  The poverty and violence rates are high.  Near poverty levels are crushing.  We are doing a lot of calling people who had one shot who haven’t made an appointment or shown up for the second shot when they did have an appointment.

The number one reason for the under 60 crowd is they cannot afford to get sick for two days.  They can’t take time off work or caregiving duties. I personally had to call off work after my second moderna shot.  Not everyone can afford that. And NY has mandatory paid sick leave for most people now, even part time workers, but it’s April and many people have already gone through theirs. Especially lower income workers.

ITA with this.

It was an issue for my son as well with missing school. They wouldn't recognize missing for side effects as a legitimate excuse. 

[J-rap]

Another question I have about boosters (if they become the norm):  Will we always need to have the same vaccine type?  That is, if we started with Pfizer, will we be required to have Pfizer forever more in order for it to remain fully effective?  Probably that question cannot even be answered yet.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

13 minutes ago, J-rap said:

I agree this is a problem.  I'm sure some companies are better at managing this than others, and for some very small businesses, it would be hard to promise much.  My dd (who works at a large company) was given two weeks paid Covid leave (for anything Covid-related, including caregiving for family members), and she's using them for her vaccine days.  This is apart from any other paid sick live or personal time off. 

But even apart from that, who wants to get sick every year from a vaccine?  It's a yucky thing to look forward to, even if you're a huge supporter of vaccines.  

I was reading an article the other day that was saying that scientists hope to be able to narrow the focus of any needed boosters so much that the side effects will be very minimal.  I've been trying to find it again, but can't.  

NY supposedly has all kinds of Covid leave but it takes a long time to go through.  Your company has to contract with an insurance. Ours uses Unum which does workers compensation and paid family leave as well.  It was absolutely ridiculous to deal with.  It took 8 weeks for me to get the paid leave from when I had Covid and then had to quarantine my kids for a month.  I had to quarantine my daughter for a week and a half in January and take time off then, which used up my sick leave for the year.  I never got the state Covid leave for that.   One coworker, who is male, had Covid in October and Unum kept asking him when his due date was.  I can absorb the month without pay, but a whole lot of people can’t. My cousin, a single mom with no support from the kids’ father, is a phlebotomist making $14 an hour.  She’s in the nursing homes and the hospitals, but hasn’t gotten vaccinated. She had to quarantine with her kids after one caught Covid, and used all available sick and vacation time for the year. She should have been given Covid pay/leave from the state, but it never seemed to go through. So she hasn’t gotten vaccinated because she literally cannot afford to take time off without pay, even just a day or two if she gets bad side effects. She’s terrified of catching Covid, not because of the health effects, but because she literally will have no money(truthfully family will help her financially but it’s a real fear for her). 

It all needs to be streamlined. We need affordable health care and much easier to get sick leave. 

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, J-rap said:

Another question I have about boosters (if they become the norm):  Will we always need to have the same vaccine type?  That is, if we started with Pfizer, will we be required to have Pfizer forever more in order for it to remain fully effective?  Probably that question cannot even be answered yet.

I *believe* I've read that there are studies underway to help determine that.

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, J-rap said:

Another question I have about boosters (if they become the norm):  Will we always need to have the same vaccine type?  That is, if we started with Pfizer, will we be required to have Pfizer forever more in order for it to remain fully effective?  Probably that question cannot even be answered yet.

People are being told to get the same brand for the first and second shots just because there isn't any safety or efficacy data yet on mixing shots, just like we (in the US) are being told to stick to the 3 or 4 week interval between shots and not spread them out more, because that's how the trials were done and the vaccines were approved based on those trials. But in the UK and some other countries they are purposely spreading them out, after the botched Brazilian trial of AZ accidentally spread them out and found that the longer interval may even have worked better (for AZ at least).

There is a current study in the UK on mixing doses from different manufacturers, and even different types of vaccines (e.g. AZ + mRNA), and there is a study in Azerbaijan that combines AZ and Sputnik. So it's likely that people will be able to get boosters from different manufacturers once we have some data on that.