Re: biology

[madteaparty]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

Biology is never fun. Get on board here. 😋

 

A great textbook though -

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/076371688X/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Also my kids loved horrible science books in elementary school. 

I wonder if I can just read this out loud (to her not him 🤣)

Edited April 15, 2021 by madteaparty

[Roadrunner]

17 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

I wonder if I can just read this out loud (to her not him 🤣)

Yes you can! That’s what I used to do. The illustrations are amazing.

[Roadrunner]

6 hours ago, Farrar said:

I also thought it was a requirement for UC's, but under D it just says two of the three of bio, chem, and physics must be covered. It definitely is on the recommended or required list for many other schools though. I have the sense that you're aiming relatively high. When that's the case, if a school does have a recommendation or requirement, they are less likely to overlook it.

So we haven’t really looked closely at college requirements yet, but this biology business sent me to some of the admissions pages, and I can’t really find anything. Either I am not looking at right places, or there isn’t a bio requirement. I looked at a UC because UCSC will most likely be our safety. 
Have you seen any school in particular (others that Rose Hulman mentioned above) naming bio? DS would jump on neuroscience elective or something in line with bio physics. I just can’t really sell the standard general bio here very well. 
For example - Grinnell and Macalester. Can’t find a thing. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Roadrunner

[chiguirre]

4 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Well, I dunno — I didn’t know most of the things in the DNA book, frankly. They go in a lot of detail.

Do you have recommendations about fun biology reading, then? My kids have been enjoying these and now know more biology than I ever did. If you’ve done lots of similar stuff, I’d love to hear about it.

The CTY class sounds like a good option.

I'd recommend National Geographic and Smithsonian for independent reading now and Scientific American probably in a couple of years. There are also tons of adult general interest books on biology/paleontology/anthropology. Some recent ones I've read that I'd highly recommend are:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52770736-the-zoologist-s-guide-to-the-galaxy

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/51122634-becoming-wild

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/51542211-owls-of-the-eastern-ice?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=8e3BV3zrLq&rank=1

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/54968118-the-code-breaker

 

These are all meant for adults, so you might want to preread, especially Owls of the Eastern Ice. That one has truly Siberian amounts of vodka consumption. There are many, many more than this. Usually there are at least 10-20 books on general biological topics that are on the NYT Notable Books List or on the NPR Best Books list. That's a good place to start hunting for things that were published in the last few years that might peak you all's interest.

 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, chiguirre said:

I'd recommend National Geographic and Smithsonian for independent reading now and Scientific American probably in a couple of years. There are also tons of adult general interest books on biology/paleontology/anthropology. Some recent ones I've read that I'd highly recommend are:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52770736-the-zoologist-s-guide-to-the-galaxy

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/51122634-becoming-wild

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/51542211-owls-of-the-eastern-ice?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=8e3BV3zrLq&rank=1

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/54968118-the-code-breaker

 

These are all meant for adults, so you might want to preread, especially Owls of the Eastern Ice. That one has truly Siberian amounts of vodka consumption. There are many, many more than this. Usually there are at least 10-20 books on general biological topics that are on the NYT Notable Books List or on the NPR Best Books list. That's a good place to start hunting for things that were published in the last few years that might peak you all's interest.

 

Thanks!! Much appreciated. I’ll take a closer look when I’m on my laptop.

Am I correct that these are less science-y and more general interest than our graphic novels?

[chiguirre]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Thanks!! Much appreciated. I’ll take a closer look when I’m on my laptop.

Am I correct that these are less science-y and more general interest than our graphic novels?

Yes, although they do make a point of explaining the science in layman's terms. The Doudna biography contains quite a bit on CRISPR, but less than @lewelma's home brew class. Their audience is people who, umm, liked biology, but didn't major in it in college. The books tend to be about the flashier aspects of biology, because that's what sells to a general, educated audience. I honestly wouldn't slog through a biochem textbook, but I'll pay attention when Walter Isaacson explains all the research that went into developing CRISPR. If you want to beef it up, you could try to wade through the actual papers that were published along the way. 

[lewelma]

4 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

So if I do this at home, anybody recommends a good lab kit? The one that doesn’t include dead animals? Can we run a legitimate lab without dead creatures? 

Best site I have found for decent labs is Biology Corner.  They do not provide a kit, but they are designed to be done generally at home without equipment. They have genetics, ecology, cell bio, evolution, anatomy. They are not hard labs (designed for 9th grade), but they do have some easy simulations and modelling.

https://www.biologycorner.com/

[stripe]

The Home Biology lab book has tons of stuff, and you can download it for free and take a good look at it. You can buy a lab kit here.

https://www.thehomescientist.com

Also ASU has a different sort of Biology class.

https://ea.asu.edu/courses/the-living-world-bio-100/

[lewelma]

You can also build an advanced biology course by doing 4 units of specialized work across 4 different scales. So 

1) Micro scale: genetic engineering(incredibly technical and current)

2) Individual scale: biophysics of flight or neurobiology (physics - so cool and interesting)

3) Population scale: population genetics (this is the mathematics of evolution)

4) Systems scale: population dynamics/ecology (the most mathy of the systems level content, and *very* mathy!).

Get four hard books to read, and then align some labs to these areas. Call it Advanced Biology. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by lewelma

[RootAnn]

@RoadrunnerI found the same thing as you, but some do specify "life sciences" vs "physical sciences " with requirements for each. UTexas says 4 years including "[o]ne course in biology and two in physics and chemistry" but, again, it doesn't have to be general Bio!

U Washington doesn't care what areas as long as you hit two of the three main topics (bio, physics, chem) with a web-based course and says that "college science courses with a lab in departments such as astronomy, atmospheric science, biological structure, biology, botany, chemistry, environmental science (but not environmental studies), genetics, geology, oceanography, physical anthropology, physical geography, physics or zoology will count toward this requirement." 

The University of Iowa only specifies a year of Bio if you are trying to get into their direct admit nursing program.

Cornell recommends or requires a year of Biology specifically for certain of its colleges such as Ag/Life Science and Human Ecology. Others don't mention the type or, in the case of Engineering, specifically require physics and chemistry.

These are just a sampling. Again, a college will likely be ok with an area of life science just as much as a general biology course in most (but not all) situations. It seems major-specific.

[lewelma]

Or you could make it really straight forward.  Do population genetics (the mathematics of evolution). Get one book. Do one big lab by breeding fruit flies over multiple generations. The class could be called Evolution and Population Genetics. 

When I did Population Genetics in Grad school we did a massive simulation project.  That could be a lab without critters. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by lewelma

[Lori D.]

2 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

So we haven’t really looked closely at college requirements yet, but this biology business sent me to some of the admissions pages, and I can’t really find anything. Either I am not looking at right places, or there isn’t a bio requirement... Have you seen any school in particular... naming bio? 

The below required credits for admission to UC schools is listed below, and when coupled with the details from the International Students admission page, it looks like you do NOT need Biology for UC schools -- just 2 courses from 2 of these 3 choices: Biology, Chemistry, Physics. And Earth/Space science can also be 1 of the years. If doing a 3rd science (i.e., planning on a STEM degree), they allow Computer Science, Engineering, or an Applied Science course to be the 3rd (or more) course. So it looks like skipping Biology is NOT a problem for UC schools.

As always, YMMV, colleges can change policies, and always do your research by calling the schools of interest and speaking directly to admissions. BEST of luck in deciding what to go with, and BEST WISHES that it is interesting and exciting for your student! Warmest regards, Lori D.
______________________________

From the UC freshman admissions web page: 
"You need to complete a minimum of 15 college-preparatory courses (A-G courses) with a letter grade of C or better. For courses completed during the 2020 winter, spring or summer terms, UC will also accept a grade of pass/credit. You must complete at least 11 of these courses prior to the beginning of your last year of high school. The 15 courses are:
a. History = 2 years
b. English = 4 years
c. Mathematics = 3 years
d. Science = 2 years
e. Language other than English = 2 years*
    * or equivalent to the 2nd level of high school instruction
f. Visual and performing arts = 1 year
g. College-preparatory elective
   (chosen from the subjects listed above or another course approved by the university)"

From the UC freshman INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS admissions web page:
"2 years of college-preparatory science, including or integrating topics that provide fundamental knowledge in two of these three subjects: biology, chemistry, or physics. One year of approved interdisciplinary or earth and space sciences coursework can meet one year of the requirement. Computer Science, Engineering, Applied Science courses can be used in area D as an additional  science (i.e., third year or beyond)."

Edited April 15, 2021 by Lori D.

[MamaSprout]

And really? Lab science doesn't have to be an ordeal. My d-i-l is a high school bio teacher, and I'm shocked at how few labs the regular 9th/10th grade biology course has. She's in a big high school so the students who want to go deeper can sign up for interesting electives with more labs later, but none of the courses are a full-fledged-wet-lab-a-week by any stretch. They do simulations and data labs a lot of the time.

[Roadrunner]

7 minutes ago, MamaSprout said:

And really? Lab science doesn't have to be an ordeal. My d-i-l is a high school bio teacher, and I'm shocked at how few labs the regular 9th/10th grade biology course has. She's in a big high school so the students who want to go deeper can sign up for interesting electives with more labs later, but none of the courses are a full-fledged-wet-lab-a-week by any stretch. They do simulations and data labs a lot of the time.

I have done chem and physics labs at home. It’s the biology (and specifically any sort of dissection or tinkering with dead animals) that I am trying to avoid. I think maybe we will push it to the very last semester of high school just based on avoidance behavior. 
 

[royspeed]

21 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

This kid wants nothing to do with bio, but I am going to guess if we don’t squeeze it in our schedule, his college options will suffer...
What do you guys recommend? AP bio is not an option. No way he wants to spend that sort of time or energy on it. I don’t want to do labs at home...

My wife is a talented and experienced biology teacher, and she has fashioned a series of science intensives that may appeal to your son and satisfy your own concerns as well:

• Each intensive is only 8 weeks long.
• Each comprises two 60-minute classes per week, for a total of 16 classes.
• Each includes labs — but you won't have to do anything. (Your son should do just fine without any hand-holding from you.)

These courses may be short, but they're real science — the real deal. My wife's intensive on ecology is high school level, but all the others are honors-level. She uses mostly college texts, and most important, she believes in going deep, i.e., the opposite of AP, which must by design teach to the test and is therefore lots of work, a mile wide, an inch deep.

Also, doing labs in her class is not just ticking the lab box. For her students, more important than doing each lab is analyzing the results for deeper meaning — seeing how the experiment brings to life theory they've just been grappling with in the textbook or in the lectures. So each lab is about achieving real scientific understanding. Her labs often include jaw-dropping experiences and deliver real insight. 

My wife's students also do research projects and make presentations to the class. — Her current science intensives are as follows:

• Ecology
• Genetics
• Botany
• Anatomical Systems

So your student can take any combination of these intensives, or all of them, or just one. — Assigning appropriate credits is up to you.

Hope that's helpful, Roadrunner. 

[lewelma]

14 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

and specifically any sort of dissection or tinkering with dead animals

This is a very old-fashioned approach to biology. Biology in high school used to be more about anatomy so animals were dissected. Biology today is more about cell and molecular biology with DNA and evolution as the focus, which means the labs are either with a microscope or simulations (and using fancy equipment at rich schools).  You do NOT need to do dissections.  You do not need to even watch dissections on youtube. You do not need to even do any anatomy. And if you do, it is old fashioned. 

You need to think about the point of the lab. 

Are you teaching technique? - so microscope skills or running transects.

Are you trying to reinforce content?  If so, you can do card games to demonstrate probability, or genetic trees of hemophilia of the royal family.

Are you trying to teach data analysis?  If so, you get data and analyze it or you run simulations.

There are many reasons to do a lab.  Dissections fall under the 'reinforce content' purpose, but it is not the only purpose. 

[lewelma]

4 minutes ago, royspeed said:

My wife is a talented and experienced biology teacher, and she has fashioned a series of science intensives that may appeal to your son and satisfy your own concerns as well:

• Each intensive is only 8 weeks long.
• Each comprises two 60-minute classes per week, for a total of 16 classes.
• Each includes labs — but you won't have to do anything. (Your son should do just fine without any hand-holding from you.)

These courses may be short, but they're real science — the real deal. My wife's intensive on ecology is high school level, but all the others are honors-level. She uses mostly college texts, and most important, she believes in going deep, i.e., the opposite of AP, which must by design teach to the test and is therefore lots of work, a mile wide, an inch deep.

Also, doing labs in her class is not just ticking the lab box. For her students, more important than doing each lab is analyzing the results for deeper meaning — seeing how the experiment brings to life theory they've just been grappling with in the textbook or in the lectures. So each lab is about achieving real scientific understanding. Her labs often include jaw-dropping experiences and deliver real insight. 

My wife's students also do research projects and make presentations to the class. — Her current science intensives are as follows:

• Ecology
• Genetics
• Botany
• Anatomical Systems

So your student can take any combination of these intensives, or all of them, or just one. — Assigning appropriate credits is up to you.

Hope that's helpful, Roadrunner. 

cool!

[Lori D.]

5 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

I have done chem and physics labs at home. It’s the biology (and specifically any sort of dissection or tinkering with dead animals) that I am trying to avoid. I think maybe we will push it to the very last semester of high school just based on avoidance behavior...

You do not have to do in-person dissections. MANY schools are moving to virtual dissections in protection of animals, and colleges accept virtual dissections as labs.

[stripe]

The only dissection offered in my high school was a frog. There were no bugs, fetal pigs, eyeballs, etc. I was allowed to opt out and prepare a report on frog anatomy instead. I didn’t feel it was a big part of the course. I also have no idea what other labs we did. It was frankly very not memorable, unfortunately.

[Clemsondana]

In our state, even if you follow state standards there is no dissection in high school - that sort of biology is covered in middle school and high school is mostly molecular with a dash of ecology.  You've gotten some great suggestions and I'll add a few more.  Molecular biology/molecular genetics has a different feel - I took a class in college called 'Recombinant DNA Technologies'.  I don't know what's out there but he might be able to do some research on how physics fits with bio - a lot of cool biotech was basically waiting for the computing and machinery to catch up.  I had to sit through training on flow cytometry and they started talking about the calculus that is letting the sorter determine what stage of the cell cycle the cells are in...it definitely wasn't standard biology.  Genomics might also be interesting.  

Going in a completely different direction, he might enjoy some of the popular science written about biology topics - the books The Brain and Gut are interesting.  I've also done classes that wound up with students considering societal implications of what we do - when we read about links between the microbiome and mental health, students wondered about whether probiotics could be used, voluntarily or not, for more than gut health, and how diet might affect people both through direct health effects but also through changes in the microbiome.  There are odd topics like prion disease and books about the Green Revolution and conflicting opinions on GMOs.  I've also had students read classic papers - Watson and Crick are easy, Messelson and Stahl  is super cool once you figure out what you're looking at.  

And if you need labs, you might be able to base some around topics that you choose.  There are lots of simple and complex experiments that can be designed around ecology.  When we did microbiome work, we experimented with culturing from foods and supplements claiming 'live cultures'.  I'm designing a horticulture elective for my kids next year, and my high schooler is using a textbook from the Future Farmers of America, which seems to have biology but from an ag perpective.  

[EKS]

23 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Actually now that I think back, he also watched all the Bozeman bio videos. If only I could count biology done in middle school in CA. I can’t though. 

Why does it matter when the bulk of it was done?  When I've had to provide a transcript arranged by year, I just recorded courses when they were completed.  Since it sounds like he's already done a lot of high school level biology (Miller and Levine, for example), you could just do a lab piece, and when that's done, add the whole thing to the transcript in whatever year it was completed.  If you want to bulk it up a bit, add some supplemental reading about topics of interest.  Then all of it can go into the course description (M&L, supplements, and lab).  No need to mention that M&L and whatever else (Bozeman, for example) was done earlier.

[Roadrunner]

Some of the more interesting biology courses (CRISPR ....) all say general bio as prerequisite. Does that mean if we jump into one of those, it would be incomprehensible without a solid college bio class first? 

[EKS]

23 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Can we run a legitimate lab without dead creatures? 

You can do a whole course and omit all of the organismic stuff.  It's called modern biology.  Modern biology focuses on biochemistry and molecular biology, cell biology, genetics, evolution, and ecology.  I might add in some stuff about human biology so that the student is equipped to understand modern medicine (maybe a unit on immunology, for example), but that's it.

[Not_a_Number]

20 minutes ago, EKS said:

You can do a whole course and omit all of the organismic stuff.  It's called modern biology.  Modern biology focuses on biochemistry and molecular biology, cell biology, genetics, evolution, and ecology.  I might add in some stuff about human biology so that the student is equipped to understand modern medicine (maybe a unit on immunology, for example), but that's it.

A lot of the stuff in our graphic novels is on that stuff, I think -- one book is on evolution, and one is on the nitty-gritty of what happens with DNA inside of cells and also on how genetics works. 

I'm no expert, but I like that stuff much better than what I (was supposed to have) learned in high school...

Edited April 16, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Roadrunner]

2 hours ago, EKS said:

Why does it matter when the bulk of it was done?  When I've had to provide a transcript arranged by year, I just recorded courses when they were completed.  Since it sounds like he's already done a lot of high school level biology (Miller and Levine, for example), you could just do a lab piece, and when that's done, add the whole thing to the transcript in whatever year it was completed.  If you want to bulk it up a bit, add some supplemental reading about topics of interest.  Then all of it can go into the course description (M&L, supplements, and lab).  No need to mention that M&L and whatever else (Bozeman, for example) was done earlier.

CA doesn’t allow anything other than math and foreign language. I know I can do whatever, but I am going to guess my son’s application will eventually be read alongside other applications from local public schoolers. I don’t want to be seen padding the transcript. He will have plenty of science on it...

Now if he takes something unconventional for biological sciences, I might be able to mention in the course descriptions that it built in general bio knowledge from prior years. 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

CA doesn’t allow anything other than math and foreign language. I know I can do whatever, but I am going to guess my son’s application will eventually be read alongside other applications from local public schoolers. I don’t want to be seen padding the transcript. He will have plenty of science on it...

Now if he takes something unconventional for biological sciences, I might be able to mention in the course descriptions that it built in general bio knowledge from prior years. 

You might be overthinking this a tad 🙂 . If he has plenty of science on the transcript, he'll stand out anyway. Just design him something he's relatively happy to do, and leave the dead animals on the highway 😉 . 

[Roadrunner]

14 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

You might be overthinking this a tad 🙂 . If he has plenty of science on the transcript, he'll stand out anyway. Just design him something he's relatively happy to do, and leave the dead animals on the highway 😉 . 

I am not worried about lack of science, just lack of biological science, because as Farrar mentioned, some schools want to see at least one class from that category. I think I am finding interesting options through ideas here. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

I am not worried about lack of science, just lack of biological science, because as Farrar mentioned, some schools want to see at least one class from that category. I think I am finding interesting options through ideas here. 

I'm glad you're finding stuff that might work! 🙂 

[chiguirre]

3 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Some of the more interesting biology courses (CRISPR ....) all say general bio as prerequisite. Does that mean if we jump into one of those, it would be incomprehensible without a solid college bio class first? 

Here's a link to a kit/lecture combo that's geared to the general public:

https://www.the-odin.com/bioe101/

 

I think this is the one Walter Isaacson used in his book.

[madteaparty]

We are planning DE Neuroscience senior year. Now it sounds more like a philosophy class to me, but it has a lab (!!!) and a BIOxxx course description so 🤷‍♀️

[lewelma]

13 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Some of the more interesting biology courses (CRISPR ....) all say general bio as prerequisite. Does that mean if we jump into one of those, it would be incomprehensible without a solid college bio class first? 

Interest drives motivation. If he is keen, he can learn what is required to do the class. He is not without biology. He has done it in middle school. Personally, I'd give it a go. 

[stripe]

6 hours ago, madteaparty said:

We are planning DE Neuroscience senior year. Now it sounds more like a philosophy class to me, but it has a lab (!!!) and a BIOxxx course description so 🤷‍♀️

Here are some related lab ideas, if anyone is interested

https://backyardbrains.com

[Arcadia]

@Roadrunner@lewelma@Not_a_Number your kids may be interested in this article 

https://www.quantamagazine.org/trachette-jackson-fights-cancer-with-math-20210412/

“The term “mathematical biology” might have been considered an oxymoron more than a few decades ago: How could mathematics enrich the largely descriptive disciplines of biology? But Trachette Jackson of the University of Michigan has become a pioneer in this area, bringing deep mathematical insights to cancer therapeutics. In this episode, Jackson tells host Steve Strogatz how a tumor resembles a box of pencils, and how she came to appreciate the usefulness of mathematics for piercing biological mysteries.

...

 

Strogatz: What’s the future of cancer research? Or what do you think are the big areas for mathematicians to contribute to cancer research?

Jackson: So, I think the next horizon, which we’re just cracking the surface of right now in mathematical oncology, if you will, is precision medicine. We want to be able to make our models and our predictions patient-specific. So, we want to be able to take data from a particular patient’s physiology and molecular makeup in their particular cancer, because it… You know, cancer is over 200 different diseases, but it’s different in every person, you know. Even each type of cancer may be different in each person.”

 

[Not_a_Number]

15 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Strogatz: What’s the future of cancer research? Or what do you think are the big areas for mathematicians to contribute to cancer research?

Jackson: So, I think the next horizon, which we’re just cracking the surface of right now in mathematical oncology, if you will, is precision medicine. We want to be able to make our models and our predictions patient-specific. So, we want to be able to take data from a particular patient’s physiology and molecular makeup in their particular cancer, because it… You know, cancer is over 200 different diseases, but it’s different in every person, you know. Even each type of cancer may be different in each person.”

Lol.... DH works on that at Columbia.

[cbollin]

I didn't see this mentioned:  https://ea.asu.edu/courses/the-living-world-bio-100/

4 credits at Arizona State University. online course . virtual labs. different approach. My youngest (with learning disabilities) was able to do this as post high school student in a beta testing group. At that time, it was called "bio beyond".  Thankfully ASU updated the course title.  Here's some info on syllabus https://homeschoolingforcollegecredit.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/bio100-biobeyond-syllabus.pdf

it's 8 week course for a college semester worth. expect to do a module a week and devote time.  I liked how they let you do it again to get more points and learn the material. That was helpful for my youngest.   maybe with the high school group they allow more time. not sure. don't know. 

to see what it's like, try here https://inspark.education/biobeyond/

module 8 was fun with the trip to mars.

 

[mathnerd]

@RoadrunnerComputational Biology is becoming a really hot area now and many local kids who graduated high school in the past 2 years in my circle of acquaintances are opting to study it rather than Computer Engineering/CS. So, for your son, maybe a course in Comp Biology might meet the requirements? I am not sure where to find such a course, but a quick search on Coursera brings up quite a few:

https://www.coursera.org/courses?query=computational biology

 

[lewelma]

When I started in computational biology in 1991, it didn't have a name. In fact, there was an argument at my committee meeting over my proposed dissertation as to whether they could allow me to get a PhD without doing data collection myself. My research did end up in one of the early textbooks in computation biology as one of the early 'intuitive' approaches.  🙂 I applied nonlinear stochastic economic models to population dynamics. My adviser had no idea what I was doing because he was the guy who had collected all the data, and didn't really know much math/stats. So I was really on my own, which is why they called it an 'intuitive' approach. LOL.