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Teens and money


lovinmyboys
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8 hours ago, lovinmyboys said:

As far as what he does with his money-I don’t really care. I just think he has never had any expenses and really doesn’t “want” for much. We are pretty solidly middle class, so we don’t need him to work, but I don’t think  we will be able to get him a car or pay much toward his college. He did four games this weekend and got $200. I just think when he tells me it isn’t worth it, it is because he doesn’t need $200. Which maybe is a reason to not have a job at 14. Or maybe he should have a few expenses.

We let our kids know fairly early that we wouldn’t be gifting cars. That’s primarily because our first 3 kids have just short of a 5 year spread, and there’s no way I could commit to multiple purchases in that timeframe!

How did it actually play out? All 3 kids voluntarily started working jobs of their choice (within geographical limits) around 16, 15, and 14. Kid #1 still doesn’t drive, by choice. Kid #2 got her license at 18 instead of 16.5 and bought a bit of a jalopy. Kid #3 is soon to be 18 and still hasn’t gotten her permit (Covid played a bit of a role) but has money put aside for a car.

Long term, #1 has a fairly decent work ethic. He’s had a few umpiring gigs in the past, but he’s got a stone cold attitude when it comes to baseball. He doesn’t rattle easily there! #2 has a dependable career with excellent benefits and works both a full time and part time job and should be starting additional training soon. #3 is almost eligible for her “big girl job”, chomping at the bit for her seasonal job to start (and wants to keep both), and has decided on her college path, after which she wants to work two jobs. Some days I’m more concerned about my workaholics than my less enthusiastic kid.

All this to say, I believe in encouragement and support (I’ve driven a million miles for these kids’ paychecks!) but “buy in” is something I have little control over. I do think most of theirs was spurred by making their own choices and being accountable to themselves. I also think there’s a trickle down effect as younger kids see older siblings excited about their jobs and spending money. My stb14yo is already talking about working papers.

I wasn’t exactly on board with young kids working because I figure they’re going to spend most of their lives doing that. But, when they actually enjoy it... that’s a whole different thing.

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I would not require a 15 yo to be an umpire.  The parents are awful and very few take into consideration that they are berating a 14 yo.  I never required my 15 yo's to work.  My 2 oldest did.  #1 because she needed the $$ to help pay for softball and #2 worked at summer camp for practically nothing because he loved being at camp.  Actually at 15 he volunteered, the entire summer was not paid until 16.  My 13 will work as soon as he is able, because he is itching to get a job.  He doesn't need the $$ but he wants a job so badly.

If you want him to work to learn the value of $$ then I would just stop paying for extras and make him earn $$ for things he wants.  Could be all extras, could be some extras.  (Like, I will pay for baseball, but kid will pay for spending $$ out with friends.) Also, if 15 yo doesn't want to save for a car then OK, that will probably change when they are 16 and have the ability to drive, but not the wheels. 

Also, keep in mind umping will always be there, maybe next year when he sees he wants a car he will be willing to do that job.

 

Edited by Plateau Mama
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Being a young teenager isn't easy. They have thier own feelings, thoughts and ideas, but are also completely under thier parents rule. From how I read it, you are taking this one opportunity and only looking at the money associated with it. If he was going to be paid $15 per game....would you think that was worth it? I would never let the accumulation of money be put ahead of my child's mental health. I wouldn't want to put my teen in a situation that they were telling me they are uncomfortable with, when I know that they could be abused by people. He is telling you why he doesn't want to do it, and it is a valid reason. I don't remember the exact word you used, but it had to do with the constant chatter from the stands. It sounds like that alone is stressful for him. You know the potential for it to get worse is there. He is confident enough to tell you he is not ready for this responsibility, I think that is worth listening to. 

In retail you may have an irate customer who is there for 5 minutes and then leaves. In this situation, he is trapped for over an hour, trying to do a job that will get him judged and questioned, while being tormented from the stands. He is telling you he is not mature enough to handle the situation but it seems like you want him to do it just for the money. 

I would never create expenses to punish my child for not choosing to do an extra activity. What if you say "you now have to pay for baseball yourself" and he says "ok, I quit". 

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14 hours ago, lovinmyboys said:

Additionally, I think it is a good experience provided everyone behaves.

But they don't.  And you're talking about a teen dealing with angry parents and coaches which is role reversal.  Talk about setting someone up for failure.  I have not yet met a sports parent who hasn't seen outrageously badly behavior from  parents and coaches directed at the kids.  Teens are not mentally and emotionally prepared to deal with it at his age. Just because it works out to $25 an hour doesn't mean it's easy money.  The climate in the typical youth sport isn't healthy. 

Our coaches were realistic in dealing with parents in our team.  They flat out lied and deceived to keep badly behaved parents out of our environment.   They had a feeder class in archery that was open to all newbies. Part of it was to teach basic skills, and the rest was to observe students and their parents for behavioral issues.  Kids and their parents who didn't show any evidence of being prone to bad behavior would be contacted privately to join the real archery class for the team on different days and times than the beginner class.   There was a gag order on mentioning it outside of practices.


Then, when the kids were through the first stealth filter and in the new class the coaches were watching even more carefully for evidence of problematic people for several months.   Not everyone goes full psycho sports parent at the beginner level.  When a problem came up with 2 parents the coaches lied and said they were only going to finish out the next month then they weren't going to be able to coach anymore.  All but those 2 parents were again contacted privately and told it was to get rid of problem parents and the schedule changed to a different time and day and another gag order was in place.  We all went along with it because we all didn't like toxic sports parents.

The kids were taught how to deal with it and that didn't involve teens being in referee rolls.  They were taught to get a coach or ref to deal with it because those people are in the position of authority.  If your kid's sportsball doesn't have the base level of common sense, why involve yourself in stupidity like that?

When I enrolled my youngest in Tae Kwon Do at an Asian style TKD school, I had to do about a 20 minute phone interview before being allowed to schedule her first trial class.  They wanted to know why I was interested, what my goals for my child were, what I thought we would get out of TKD, what I thought my role would be, how I imagine I would provide support, etc.  They said they would let us know if at any point they thought we weren't going to be a good fit. That's how they operated with everyone.  They had very cooperative parents who never misbehaved in any way.  It was not socially acceptable for parents to speak during practices and competitions except to applaud at certain times when appropriate. Those instructors were rigidly strict and incredibly demanding, but it in constructive ways that encouraged excellence.

Those kinds of controls are in place to avoid they typical parent behaviors sportsball and coaching is famous for.  Teens aren't the ones who should be dealing with the bad behavior, there should be policies and practices by the adults that weed them out.  And don't tell yourself that in life we all have to deal with difficult people.  The typically badly behaved sprotsball parent isn't acting within the range of normal difficult behaviors.  They're behaving in anti-social ways that their society should create serious consequences for. Again, it's not the roll of a teen to deal with the obnoxious parent or obnoxious coach. 

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I lean heavily toward thinking teens need to work and save and spend and give.  It is a good time for learning without the possibility of horrible consequences.  14 is pretty young though.  And that job sounds stressful.  

By the time my dss was 17 we had to force him to get a job.  His first job was washing dishes at a resort restaurant.  All summer before his senior year he worked from 2-11 and it was often MUCH later.  Hot  miserable work.  When school started he indicated he was going to quit.  We were like, 'um, no, you have plenty of time to work some.'  Plus we knew the resort would almost shut down for winter and so his hours were eventually reduced to about 15 per week.  

I think someone else mentioned he might be just a bit young for insisting on work though.  Maybe help him hunt up some yard work.  I am paying a young friend of ours  today $12 per hour to trim our yard and clean out flower beds.  I would pay a 14 year old that as well.  

Edited by Scarlett
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There’s just so much to deal with in a baseball game. The young teen ump hears thunder but all the parents and coaches insist it was just a truck and pressure him to keep the game going. One kid has a bat that isn’t approved and there is a big controversy. Time limit is running out to start a new inning and one team is stalling while the other is pressuring the ump to start the inning. One team demands to see the birth certificate of a big kid on the other team. Controversy over batting order being followed or not (that one is fun on a team with twins). Domestic dispute being carried over to the ballfield. Two dads physically fist fighting. Parents confronting the ump in the restroom. It goes way beyond balls and strikes and a close play at the plate to end a game. That is a lot to be going on in the workplace of a 15 yo who is supposedly in charge.

I have seen all those scenarios play out. We have had scary scenes at the ballfield over domestic/marital issues three times off the top of my head and the two dads pummeling each other in the infield happened at a rec league coach pitch game. And I don’t live in a bad area. 

OK- I’ll stop now. I am quite sure I was traumatized by youth sports as a parent. But for the record, my kids loved it! My oldest cannot believe these stories when we get telling them because he was oblivious. He was just playing ball. It makes me feel better about it.

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3 hours ago, SKL said:

Could he choose only the youngest level games?  Seems there would be fewer buttwad adults hollering at those games?

A neighbor of mine was a youth soccer ref.  He told me that he always chooses the girls' games, because the girls' parents behave better.  He says he assumes lots of youth refs feel that way because the girls' games are always chosen first.

I found this sad, but don't doubt that it's true.  

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18 hours ago, Bambam said:

Re the fact he thinks he is going to get scholarships, I'd assign him to do a little investigation:...

OTOH, if a kid is not getting scholarships, earning 1k in the summer is a drop in the bucket that will not make a big difference. Even doing that all highschool summers won't pay for a single semester. This is not a way to motivate a teen to hold a job they hate.

 

Edited by regentrude
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