Home school "advice"/"standards"

[lewelma]

There was actually a post on my local facebook page a few months ago from a newbie with a 4 and 6 year old who was looking for a mentor.  She was pretty specific that she was asking for an old timer to act as a mentor throughout her kids schooling careers, so like for a decade. She stated that she wanted this person to grow with her family, get to know them, and advise them as the kids moved into new grades and new capabilities. She did not mention paying.  I was like Whoa. That is an enormous ask. 

[Roadrunner]

I don’t see people asking for mentors. I see people asking for hands off and free. If that’s the attitude a parent is starting homeschooling, it isn’t our job to “convert” them. I mean why pull kids out of school if you don’t have any interest in actually teaching them? And it’s not hard to google things and find a community, or a mentor if so desired. We are all here. 

[lewelma]

Just now, Plum said:

Yikes. 

That was my response.

[lewelma]

2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I mean why pull kids out of school if you don’t have any interest in actually teaching them? 

Bullying and mental health issues.  A number of people here just want their kids OUT of school. They have no plans as to what to do once that happens. These are people that I can influence, and have. 

[lewelma]

This biggest thing I help people with is their own sense of inadequacy for the job and fear of failure.  That is actually a good sign. 

[lewelma]

1 minute ago, Plum said:

I could listen to you talk about your homeschooling process and experiences all.day.long. 

LOL. Thanks! I love to write, and write most days either here or on my local board.  The main problem I am seeing is that many homeschoolers today are so focused on online this and online that, that they are not focused on *teaching*. Thus, no one asks any questions that are deep enough to elicit deep responses. I've got a lot to say but it is hard to write in a vacuum. 

[Roadrunner]

35 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Bullying and mental health issues.  A number of people here just want their kids OUT of school. They have no plans as to what to do once that happens. These are people that I can influence, and have. 

See here public schools run independent learning programs for kids who don’t want to be physically in a school. And these programs will provide textbooks and supervision and accountability for a child to continue learning and get a diploma while physically being home. In my view, this is a great solution for parents who have no issues with school academics but want kids out of the physical building for other reasons. 

[Roadrunner]

49 minutes ago, lewelma said:

There was actually a post on my local facebook page a few months ago from a newbie with a 4 and 6 year old who was looking for a mentor.  She was pretty specific that she was asking for an old timer to act as a mentor throughout her kids schooling careers, so like for a decade. She stated that she wanted this person to grow with her family, get to know them, and advise them as the kids moved into new grades and new capabilities. She did not mention paying.  I was like Whoa. That is an enormous ask. 

Send her to this board! I don’t know what I would do without both public and private advice I get from parents here. 

[lewelma]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

See here public schools run independent learning programs for kids who don’t want to be physically in a school. And these programs will provide textbooks and supervision and accountability for a child to continue learning and get a diploma while physically being home. In my view, this is a great solution for parents who have no issues with school academics but want kids out of the physical building for other reasons. 

We have that, but it is very hard to get into. You've got to have a psychologist do a full assessment and recommend it, and we currently have a massive waiting list to see a psychologist.  The attitude here is definitely that brick and mortar school is better for kids than online school, and once you get in to the online school they keep reevaluating if you are ready to go back to brick and mortar.  At the age of 16, you can choose yourself, but not before then. 

 

[8filltheheart]

6 hours ago, Shoes+Ships+SealingWax said:

I’ll grant that, despite searching, I have not seen the post in question - so perhaps I’m misunderstanding you here... but none of us exist in a vacuum. 

With children moving through different ages, different stages, & dealing with different potential hiccups it’s only natural, I think, to occasionally doubt oneself or come face-to-face with one’s own ignorance. I have committed countless hours to researching learning, teaching methods, & curricula but there is more information out there than I could ever come across independently. I value expertise, however I cannot be an expert in everything.

I’m all for looking to one’s own natural abilities, doing your own research, & otherwise putting in the legwork to establish yourself in homeschooling but I have found having mentors in the community invaluable. Isn’t that, at least in part, why we are all here in these forums? To mentor & be mentored? 

 

4 hours ago, Shoes+Ships+SealingWax said:

Yeah, I don’t get the bootstraps mentality. It’s unfortunate that earlier generations didn’t have the easy access to homeschooling communities or as varied curricular choices as we do now. Clearly those who were dedicated to the idea were able to be successful anyway, but that doesn’t make resource availability a bad thing. If a homeschooling community is in fact a community, we should want to interact & support one another. It benefits us all.

You actually completely misunderstood my pt and argued the pt I was making in your second post. The statement made was "I'm starting to see a real breakdown in homeschooling communities providing mentoring services to itself."  My "combative" response was what did that mean, compared to what, compared to when. In almost 30 yrs I have never seen more opportunities for mentoring in the homeschooling community. There are youtube videos, forums, FB groups, and online consultants for those who dont live close enough for IRL access. There are CM retreats around the country. There are co-ops for activities/socializing and courses. There are online classes, boxed curriculum for teaching. 

My pt was the exact opposite of a bootstrap mentality. My pt was that there is a plethora of opportunities for finding information and support if one desires. The desire has to be there to actually want to learn more about teaching and resources, but the information is readily accessible just about everywhere.

[lewelma]

Just now, Roadrunner said:

Send her to this board! I don’t know what I would do without both public and private advice I get from parents here. 

But you see that is actually not what she wanted. She wanted a hands-on, in-person mentor -- ONE person for a decade. She was very clear on the ONE person to guide her every step of the way in her homeschooling journey.  I seriously doubt she is still homeschooling. 

I completely agree about this board giving me SO much advice.  I know for a fact that my ds would not be at MIT without the help of the parents here.  But in addition, by challenging my ideas and forcing me to articulate my opinions better, my own thoughts have been honed and clarified over time. I've been willing to do the work to learn the craft. Not everyone is.

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

12 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

You actually completely misunderstood my pt and argued the pt I was making in your second post.

Then I’m relieved to have misunderstood. Unfortunately, I have seen that attitude from others, though luckily not here on WTM as far as I recall. I love the self-education & community-building aspects of homeschooling!

Edited April 14, 2021 by Shoes+Ships+SealingWax

[Not_a_Number]

16 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

My pt was the exact opposite of a bootstrap mentality. My pt was that there is a plethora of opportunities for finding information and support if one desires. The desire has to be there to actually want to learn more about teaching and resources, but the information is readily accessible just about everywhere.

But lots of people want community as opposed to information. I know I do. And I know that finding a community that prizes learning is pretty hard -- I've failed to in real life. The best I've been able to do is build my own. 

[lewelma]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

But lots of people want community as opposed to information. I know I do. And I know that finding a community that prizes learning is pretty hard -- I've failed to in real life. The best I've been able to do is build my own. 

I've said this before, but my IRL community that prizes learning is the learning disability crowd.  They work HARD to help their kids. We may not be able to discuss content or curriculum, but we can discuss relationships, teaching techniques, study skills development, burnout, etc.  Just yesterday we were discussing how to help kids develop a life of the mind and the mental models to be able to handle stress and disappointment. Powerful, nuanced discussion. I was only one of many with insight.  

[8filltheheart]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

But lots of people want community as opposed to information. I know I do. And I know that finding a community that prizes learning is pretty hard -- I've failed to in real life. The best I've been able to do is build my own. 

But then you aren't looking for mentoring. My comment was directed toward the premise that homeschoolers are neglecting mentoring within the homeschool community. I don't accept that premise at all. Whether new homeschoolers are interested in mentoring is different the conversation. Whether or not community exists for socialization without academics is yet another. But in terms of how and resources for homeschooling, that is not a problem unless it is that there are too many and weeds make finding the worthy difficult.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, lewelma said:

I've said this before, but my IRL community that prizes learning is the learning disability crowd.  They work HARD to help their kids. We may not be able to discuss content or curriculum, but we can discuss relationships, teaching techniques, study skills development, burnout, etc.  Just yesterday we were discussing how to help kids develop a life of the mind and the mental models to be able to handle stress and disappointment. Powerful, nuanced discussion. I was only one of many with insight.  

I haven't found those people if they exist, alas. Maybe at some point... 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, 8filltheheart said:

But then you aren't looking for mentoring. My comment was directed toward the premise that homeschoolers are neglecting mentoring within the homeschool community. I don't accept that premise at all. Whether new homeschoolers are interested in mentoring is different the conversation. Whether or not community exists for socialization without academics is yet another. But in terms of how and resources for homeschooling, that is not a problem unless it is that there are too many and weeds make finding the worthy difficult.

No, I'm definitely not looking for mentoring. But I can see how homeschoolers might like a community to "grow up" in and not mentoring, per se. So maybe we're mixing up two ideas here 🙂 . 

Just to clarify -- where did the idea that people need mentoring come from? Did someone post asking for a mentor? I might have missed that. 

[Porridge]

35 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:The best I've been able to do is build my own. 

How were you able to do this? Were you Able to do it in-person for yourself and your kids? Or just for yourself, or just for your kids?

[Not_a_Number]

5 minutes ago, WTM said:

How were you able to do this? Were you Able to do it in-person for yourself and your kids? Or just for yourself, or just for your kids?

I don't see a quote. 

[Porridge]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

But lots of people want community as opposed to information. I know I do. And I know that finding a community that prizes learning is pretty hard -- I've failed to in real life. The best I've been able to do is build my own. 

Sorry here is the quote— how did you build that community (one that prizes learning) for yourself and or your kids?  
ETA- I can contact you by pm, since this is a total tangent from the thread

Edited April 15, 2021 by Porridge

[Not_a_Number]

13 minutes ago, WTM said:

Sorry here is the quote— how did you build that community (one that prizes learning) for yourself and or your kids? 

Oh, I dunno if I have. But I've found it way easier to find people with similar values if I offer things like classes than otherwise. Then I can skim the kids that share reasonable values 😉 . Otherwise, it's hard to collect them. 

I still don't have anyone to talk to 😛 . But it works for finding peers for DD8. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Eos]

2 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

I mean why pull kids out of school if you don’t have any interest in actually teaching them?

Not responding exactly to this quote but I have a theory honed over 30 years, though with no real data other than personal observation: kids whose parents "pull them out" of school tend to go back to school, and parents who start out homeschooling tend to be the ones who homeschool through high school or wait until high school to send their kids.  Anyone else see this?

[8filltheheart]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

But lots of people want community as opposed to information. I know I do. And I know that finding a community that prizes learning is pretty hard -- I've failed to in real life. The best I've been able to do is build my own. 

In terms of the bolded, I have never been able to find a homeschooling community IRL that has the same academic values that we hold as a family.  We socialize with homeschoolers in completely non-academic ways  My kids have learned to not discuss academics around friends.  They find other interests to talk about/do--music, dance, zombie nerf fights....but school is pretty much a no-go topic. We have made wonderful friends over the yrs, but with the exception of a couple, our views toward education have been very different.  That is nothing old or new.  It just is.

In terms of the other post, it was a comment made pages ago.

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by 8filltheheart

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, Harpymom said:

Not responding exactly to this quote but I have a theory honed over 30 years, though with no real data other than personal observation: kids whose parents "pull them out" of school tend to go back to school, and parents who start out homeschooling tend to be the ones who homeschool through high school or wait until high school to send their kids.  Anyone else see this?

Hmmm. We definitely have friends who started homeschooling who sent their kids to school eventually. I haven’t seen what happens with kids who get “pulled out” yet.

We pulled DD8 after kindergarten. We’ll see how long we go.

[Arcadia]

16 minutes ago, Harpymom said:

Not responding exactly to this quote but I have a theory honed over 30 years, though with no real data other than personal observation: kids whose parents "pull them out" of school tend to go back to school, and parents who start out homeschooling tend to be the ones who homeschool through high school or wait until high school to send their kids.  Anyone else see this?

Well, I am still stuck homeschooling my teens. We started when my DS16 was in 5th grade (so 9 years old). Technically the community college is now “babysitting” them.

[Dmmetler]

I found a community by offering academic clubs to match my child's interests. Parents who sign their kids up for academic clubs where the goal is to do math league, NME, ELE/NLE, NVLE, etc seemed to be a decent fit, even though my personal child was usually working at a much different level.

 

I will also agree that my community often came from special needs homeschoolers, often those who have 2e kids. 

[LMD]

2 hours ago, Harpymom said:

Not responding exactly to this quote but I have a theory honed over 30 years, though with no real data other than personal observation: kids whose parents "pull them out" of school tend to go back to school, and parents who start out homeschooling tend to be the ones who homeschool through high school or wait until high school to send their kids.  Anyone else see this?

What I see with this is ideological vs situational homeschoolers. Some homeschool as a last option or response to a  school experience. If the situation that led them to homeschool changes, then school becomes an option again. Eg, they don't like long days & lots of testing for little kids, but they'll put the kids in again at 13yo ish.

Ideological homeschoolers tend to look for homeschool related solutions to situations that arise, because their underlying reason for homeschooling is a proactive conviction, not a reactive choice.

There's definite crossover, people and families are complicated. I've rarely been surprised about which families end up back at schools.

[kiwik]

10 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

See here public schools run independent learning programs for kids who don’t want to be physically in a school. And these programs will provide textbooks and supervision and accountability for a child to continue learning and get a diploma while physically being home. In my view, this is a great solution for parents who have no issues with school academics but want kids out of the physical building for other reasons. 

But Lewelma like me is in NZ.  We have a national state correspondence school (Te Kura) but it is only available free to a very small number of kids who meet specific criteria (my ASD kid who was expelled doesn't meet them for example).  For everyone else it costs $7000 a year which is out of the price range of the vast majority of people.  We do not have many options especially at high school level.  My city has one private school that is for years 7 and 8 only plus a couple of state integrated religious schools (they are ex private church schools that joined with the state system in exchange for funding - they have the same curricula and teachers but get to add religion.

[kiwik]

10 hours ago, lewelma said:

We have that, but it is very hard to get into. You've got to have a psychologist do a full assessment and recommend it, and we currently have a massive waiting list to see a psychologist.  The attitude here is definitely that brick and mortar school is better for kids than online school, and once you get in to the online school they keep reevaluating if you are ready to go back to brick and mortar.  At the age of 16, you can choose yourself, but not before then. 

 

It took me 6 years to get CAHMS to refer me to the paediatrician to get an ASD diagnosis.  Started at 4 finally got  a diagnosis within 10 minutes of the seeing the guy when ds was 10

[Roadrunner]

4 hours ago, kiwik said:

But Lewelma like me is in NZ.  We have a national state correspondence school (Te Kura) but it is only available free to a very small number of kids who meet specific criteria (my ASD kid who was expelled doesn't meet them for example).  For everyone else it costs $7000 a year which is out of the price range of the vast majority of people.  We do not have many options especially at high school level.  My city has one private school that is for years 7 and 8 only plus a couple of state integrated religious schools (they are ex private church schools that joined with the state system in exchange for funding - they have the same curricula and teachers but get to add religion.

That’s too bad. It’s certainly not the same in the states. You can do independent study in my district for free. 

[Dmmetler]

12 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

That’s too bad. It’s certainly not the same in the states. You can do independent study in my district for free. 

That's been a change in the last 10-15 years or so, as districts started rolling out their own online programs and states added online charters. Before that, independent study (with a few exceptions-I know Alaska has had options for this for decades, and I think some other states may have as well) basically required being medically unable to go to school or being excluded due to behavior (and in the latter, usually it was of specific duration-there was no option to just decide it was better for you.) About 20 years ago, I had a student who's school record, from 2nd grade on, was a half year of a given school, peppered with suspensions and discipline referrals, and a half year of homebound due to being excluded from school, in which he had awesome grades and great reports. Each time he'd start the new year "fresh" at a different school. At 6th grade, he came to us, and told me flat out that "don't worry, I'm only here until I can get kicked out". I WISH Connections academy or K12.com had been available, because this was a really smart kid who just plain didn't like spending all day at school vs doing homebound when he could do the work quickly, meet with a teacher for a couple of hours a week, and do what he wanted the rest of the time, but he didn't have a parent who had the inclination to homeschool. 

 

 

[daijobu]

23 hours ago, lewelma said:

But you see that is actually not what she wanted. She wanted a hands-on, in-person mentor -- ONE person for a decade. She was very clear on the ONE person to guide her every step of the way in her homeschooling journey.  I seriously doubt she is still homeschooling. 

 

I'll do it if she pays me up front...for the whole ten years.  

[Ellie]

On 4/14/2021 at 5:42 PM, lewelma said:

There was actually a post on my local facebook page a few months ago from a newbie with a 4 and 6 year old who was looking for a mentor.  She was pretty specific that she was asking for an old timer to act as a mentor throughout her kids schooling careers, so like for a decade. She stated that she wanted this person to grow with her family, get to know them, and advise them as the kids moved into new grades and new capabilities. She did not mention paying.  I was like Whoa. That is an enormous ask. 

I feel like I saw that. She wants a governess. Actually, first she wants a nanny, who becomes the governess.

[Momto6inIN]

On 4/14/2021 at 9:30 PM, Harpymom said:

Not responding exactly to this quote but I have a theory honed over 30 years, though with no real data other than personal observation: kids whose parents "pull them out" of school tend to go back to school, and parents who start out homeschooling tend to be the ones who homeschool through high school or wait until high school to send their kids.  Anyone else see this?

Including myself, I know at least 3 other families who started their kids in public school and then when it became clear that family life and school life were in direct competition and that school life was winning (usually around middle school for the oldest), pulled their kids out and have been happily hs'ing ever since.

[Pen]

On 4/14/2021 at 3:42 PM, lewelma said:

There was actually a post on my local facebook page a few months ago from a newbie with a 4 and 6 year old who was looking for a mentor.  She was pretty specific that she was asking for an old timer to act as a mentor throughout her kids schooling careers, so like for a decade. She stated that she wanted this person to grow with her family, get to know them, and advise them as the kids moved into new grades and new capabilities. She did not mention paying.  I was like Whoa. That is an enormous ask. 

maybe an experienced homeschool grandma who would love to have a situation like that with her own grandchildren, but where her own grandchildren are not homeschooling would want something like that. If the children are sweet and essentially became grandkids, even though it’s a very big ask, it might end up positive both ways. 

[Tree Frog]

It's hard to just "stumble" on a thread that's nearly 2 years old. 

If you're new here, welcome. It's always better to start your own thread, especially when it's such an old thread.