Young Adults

[Scarlett]

I am frustrated at the moment.  

MIL is coming to visit this weekend.  She has not seen her great grand son (dss24's baby).  For weeks dh has been asking dss24 if he will come to see us when MIL is here so we can all see the baby.  No response.  So because she is working, we assumed if we did get them to come Saturday would be the day they would come.  My mom wanted to cook for us on Sat and I said we needed to leave that day open for Dss24 in hopes he would come.  So she said she would cook for us Friday.  

Finally Dss24 answers and says they can come today (Friday).  DIL has been laid off so I guess that is why they can come today.  And dss24 hasn't worked in 6 weeks or more because he fell on the ice and hurt his back.  Anyway, Dh takes off work, we talk to mom and reschedule her dinner for Saturday.  This morning dss24 calls and tells his dad "I am driving 5 hours today to buy a truck I found on line.  So we can't come today we will come tomorrow."

Insert hitting keyboard emoji.  Dh says ok.  Dh did not mention our other plans or anything.  Which I get because we all really just want to see the baby.

So I called mom and told her.  At this point they just weren't able to reschedule for today AGAIN, she has therapy appointment etc...so we settled on them coming over to our house for Pizza.  

Ugh.

[EKS]

It sounds to me like the problem is with your husband.

[Katy]

I’m sorry. 

[JustEm]

1 minute ago, EKS said:

It sounds to me like the problem is with your husband.

What did her dh do?

[EKS]

1 minute ago, hjffkj said:

What did her dh do?

 

12 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

This morning dss24 calls and tells his dad "I am driving 5 hours today to buy a truck I found on line.  So we can't come today we will come tomorrow."

Insert hitting keyboard emoji.  Dh says ok.  Dh did not mention our other plans or anything.

 

[Katy]

2 minutes ago, EKS said:

It sounds to me like the problem is with your husband.

It’s not, the DSS lives with his in-laws and have severely restricted access to the baby. Any pushback at all would likely result in no visit.  There’s weird enmeshment with her parents going on. 

[JustEm]

That is really frustrating. They don't sound like very mature adults if they can't solidify plans well. I do understand cancelling to buy a truck last minute though since when a good deal pops up it gets snatched up quick so you have to be ready to drop everything and get the deal. But to just assume flip flopping days like that is really immature. The expectation that you have nothing planned on Saturday is really rude.

I hope they mature a bit and make planning easier

[JustEm]

1 minute ago, EKS said:

 

 

Given their relationship I wouldn't expect her dh to mention anything. They want to see the baby so they basically have to go with when they are available. Had her dh told them about the plans they would likely just cancel the visit all together. Then the whole process starts over.

[WildflowerMom]

6 minutes ago, Katy said:

It’s not, the DSS lives with his in-laws and have severely restricted access to the baby. Any pushback at all would likely result in no visit.  There’s weird enmeshment with her parents going on. 

Wait, what now?  He can’t see his own baby even though he’s with the mom and taking care of baby? 

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

Given their relationship I wouldn't expect her dh to mention anything. They want to see the baby so they basically have to go with when they are available. Had her dh told them about the plans they would likely just cancel the visit all together. Then the whole process starts over.

Exactly.  Dh knows they are being immature and thoughtless, but his mom is driving 5 hours to see us this weekend and we all just want to see the baby.

 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, WildflowerMom said:

Wait, what now?  He can’t see his own baby even though he’s with the mom and taking care of baby? 

I think she meant OUR access to the baby has been restricted.  They have got their own place now but we haven't been invited.  Probably because it has just not occurred to them to do so.

[Katy]

Just now, Scarlett said:

I think she meant OUR access to the baby has been restricted.  They have got their own place now but we haven't been invited.  Probably because it has just not occurred to them to do so.

Yes, that’s what I meant. I’m glad they moved out.

[WildflowerMom]

I would just bite my tongue.    See the baby Saturday and compliment them on the truck.  

[Scarlett]

Just now, Katy said:

Yes, that’s what I meant. I’m glad they moved out.

Me too.  But since neither of them are working it seems foolish to be buying another vehicle right now.  $2500 for a 1996 truck.  I just.....not what I would do, but this young man is not the type to take advice very well.  Very frustrating.

[EKS]

18 minutes ago, Katy said:

It’s not, the DSS lives with his in-laws and have severely restricted access to the baby. Any pushback at all would likely result in no visit.  There’s weird enmeshment with her parents going on. 

Wow, somehow none of that came through in the post.

[marbel]

9 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

I would just bite my tongue.    See the baby Saturday and compliment them on the truck.  

I did not know or remember the back story. Yes, bite your tongue, see and enjoy the baby on Saturday.  I know it is frustrating/heartbreaking to have restricted access to a grandchild. 

[Katy]

4 minutes ago, EKS said:

Wow, somehow none of that came through in the post.

They moved out so apparently it’s old news, but Scarlet has posted about how weird it was that they couldn’t see the baby, and how weird it was when they finally went over there before. 

[JustEm]

6 minutes ago, EKS said:

Wow, somehow none of that came through in the post.

We know this info from a previous post when the baby was first born.

[JustEm]

11 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Me too.  But since neither of them are working it seems foolish to be buying another vehicle right now.  $2500 for a 1996 truck.  I just.....not what I would do, but this young man is not the type to take advice very well.  Very frustrating.

I take my previous comment back. That doesn't sound like a good deal at all. No reason to pounce on that

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

I take my previous comment back. That doesn't sound like a good deal at all. No reason to pounce on that

Right?  SMH.  

[Scarlett]

Well dss never did make it. Sat he had car trouble ....So a plan was made to drive to them today and meet at 2. Just as we were walking out the door dss24 called and said the truck he bought Friday broke down. 
 

 

[Scarlett]

7 hours ago, kand said:

Does that mean you didn’t get to see the baby, or did you drive to his place?

Both.  

[freesia]

I am so sorry Scarlett. 

[Katy]

I’m sorry. 

[Spryte]

Oh no.  I’m so sorry.

[Scarlett]

The entire weekend was so jacked up. I just went with whatever happened.  First, we just had my parents over for pizza Friday evening because the plan for them to cook for us Sat was changed because dss24 was coming to see us Sat. Saturday morning dss24 called and told his dad all about how the truck he bought 5 hours away wouldn't start to get it off the lot and that it took them until midnight to get home because it kept breaking down along the way. Dh offered to come Saturday to help him work on the truck, but he said 'my buddy will help me'.  Later called to say the had got the starter on and it seemed fine. 

 

Then Saturday around noon he calls his dad to say that his wife and baby were driving their other vehicle and the transmission went out of it.  And that the FIL was on his way to get the the wife and baby and dss24 was trying to figure out what to do about getting the car off the side of the road.  Thus they weren't coming.

Dh suggested a transmission shop we have used and told him to have it towed there and left there.  (ds24 has tow insurance)  Well, in a few hours dss24 calls back and said his FIL talked him in to having the car towed to FILs house.  By FILs buddy who owns a tow company. (which I guarantee you will turn it into dss's insurance, but whatever)

So new plan was we would go to their town Sunday, meet at a restaurant at 2 after his wife and baby got back from church.  He calls us at 1:00 and says the truck locked up on his wife and wouldn't move.  Again DIL offered to drive straight there to help but dss24 says, 'FIL is closer, he will help.'  

That left us all hanging again on Sunday just like Saturday.  Nothing anyone can do about it.  I feel bad for dss24 and bad for dh because he really wants to help his son but the FIL seems to be completely in control of so many things. Or could be the wife.....or who knows.  Maybe just circumstances.  

 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

The entire weekend was so jacked up. I just went with whatever happened.  First, we just had my parents over for pizza Friday evening because the plan for them to cook for us Sat was changed because dss24 was coming to see us Sat. Saturday morning dss24 called and told his dad all about how the truck he bought 5 hours away wouldn't start to get it off the lot and that it took them until midnight to get home because it kept breaking down along the way. Dh offered to come Saturday to help him work on the truck, but he said 'my buddy will help me'.  Later called to say the had got the starter on and it seemed fine. 

 

Then Saturday around noon he calls his dad to say that his wife and baby were driving their other vehicle and the transmission went out of it.  And that the FIL was on his way to get the the wife and baby and dss24 was trying to figure out what to do about getting the car off the side of the road.  Thus they weren't coming.

Dh suggested a transmission shop we have used and told him to have it towed there and left there.  (ds24 has tow insurance)  Well, in a few hours dss24 calls back and said his FIL talked him in to having the car towed to FILs house.  By FILs buddy who owns a tow company. (which I guarantee you will turn it into dss's insurance, but whatever)

So new plan was we would go to their town Sunday, meet at a restaurant at 2 after his wife and baby got back from church.  He calls us at 1:00 and says the truck locked up on his wife and wouldn't move.  Again DIL offered to drive straight there to help but dss24 says, 'FIL is closer, he will help.'  

That left us all hanging again on Sunday just like Saturday.  Nothing anyone can do about it.  I feel bad for dss24 and bad for dh because he really wants to help his son but the FIL seems to be completely in control of so many things. Or could be the wife.....or who knows.  Maybe just circumstances.  

 

That seems...unbelievable. 
I would be greatly wondering if there was any motivation from their end to get together. 
 

I am sorry, Scarlett. 

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Quill said:

That seems...unbelievable. 
I would be greatly wondering if there was any motivation from their end to get together. 
 

I am sorry, Scarlett. 

Ha, when dh told me the last bit Sunday he prefaced it with ,'and you probably won't even believe this.'   But yeah, I think if there is anyone using any excuse to not get together it is probably the wife.  But who knows.  I do think ds24 really wanted to get together....to see his grandmother, to show off the baby. He seemed super stressed and down talking to his dad.  These car issues can be so stressful....compounded by thinking you probably made a bad decision or two.

[Annie G]

I’m so sorry. What a crummy situation- you just want to see the baby and show you care about them. What new parents don’t need all the love and support they can get, ya know?  I hope whoever is controlling the situation softens their heart for the baby’s sake.

[Scarlett]

Thanks y'all.  It is a complex situation.  Honestly, I have no bond with dss24.  I know that bugs dh, but dss refused to come for visitation or talk to his dad at all since age 15 (except to scream at him a few times over the years.) So we had one year of visitation.  EOW.  I have seen him 5 times since age 15. I have tried to be kind, to reach out, to send little gifts etc.  The wife is just so.....I don't know.....I really don't know what her deal is.  They would not let us see the baby for 4 months after he was born.  One time during that 4 months I asked her when she thought they might be letting us see him.  She said, 'I am thinking we will know when we are comfortable introducing him to new people and we will let you know.'  So ok then.  I haven't really texted her at all since then.  I just leave it up to dh to reach out to his son.

I am exhausted trying to walk on egg shells and give all of these young adults their space while they have zero regard for us.

[Jaybee]

It almost sounds like she is just power-playing you guys, and using your desire to see the baby as leverage. I'd probably just back away and leave it alone. If they wanted to know me, great, I would respond, but I don't have a lot of patience for people who try to jerk my chain. Possibly something like, "Well, just let us know if you want to get together sometime." And then leave it. But...I know that it is more complicated for your dh. I think I would still stay out of it and let him deal with it as he chose. It might work better at first for him to show up at their house, alone and casually. The dynamic seems strange to me.

[hippymamato3]

Scarlett, have you guys ever seen the baby? At all?

[catz]

How can you possibly have a bond with someone you've seen a handfull of times?  I would definitely let your dh drive that and just remove myself emotionally from the situation as much as possible as much as it stinks.   Relationships with kids after divorce can be complex.  It may be the wife, but he may just be using her as an excuse.  Since he resisted visitation it's pretty likely he has a spine and may still have some baggage.  If he really wanted to be building a relationship with his father, he would do it.  

It's also a season where lots of grandparents aren't really seeing grandkids.  Both my mother and my FIL are in close range and I think my FIL has seen my kids once outdoors in the past year.  My mother, maybe 2-3 times outdoors.  The people I know here with infants/toddlers have been pretty hunkered down.  I have a friend who waited many weeks to see a first grandchild after covid vaccines and there is a good relationship with everyone in the mix. 

I also don't think it's unusual for the mom's family to get more facetime with a new nursing mother if the mother-daughter relationship is strong.  Anyway, they sound like an immature  young couple and some people just need to learn some lessons the hard way. Maybe they'll figure it out sooner rather than later.

Edited April 12, 2021 by FuzzyCatz

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

It almost sounds like she is just power-playing you guys, and using your desire to see the baby as leverage. I'd probably just back away and leave it alone. If they wanted to know me, great, I would respond, but I don't have a lot of patience for people who try to jerk my chain. Possibly something like, "Well, just let us know if you want to get together sometime." And then leave it. But...I know that it is more complicated for your dh. I think I would still stay out of it and let him deal with it as he chose. It might work better at first for him to show up at their house, alone and casually. The dynamic seems strange to me.

Right.  She posts all these weird memes about boundaries and how she is the mom and blah blah blah.  I mean I don't know who in her world is crossing boundaries, but it sure is not us.  And one was 'just because you are something to my child doesn't mean you get to be in their life.'  Ds19 told me that is probably directed toward her bio dad from whom she is estranged.  

The only mildly confrontational thing I said to her was when she said the above about introducing him to 'new people'.  I said, 'new people?  Ok.  I guess I was thinking grandparents might be in a little different category than 'new people'.  Thank you for clarifying that.  Sleep well.'  After that I just mostly gave up.  I would send a text every few weeks saying 'hope you are all well.'  She would give one sentence replies.  

The weirdest thing was when dss24 called dh and said, 'can you mail us some diapers?'  And dh said, 'I have them in the car I will just drop them off to you.'  So dh gets to her parents house and dss24 comes onto the porch and says, 'her parents aren't home and are funny about people coming in when they are not home.'  And never offers to bring the baby to the door way or anything.  I absolutely do not believe that was dss24.....I think his wife is completely running the entire 'parent' show.  Either way, I thought it was pretty much cruel to do that to dh.

[Scarlett]

7 minutes ago, hippymamato3 said:

Scarlett, have you guys ever seen the baby? At all?

One time.  When he was 4 months old.  He is 8 months old now.

[hippymamato3]

Just now, Scarlett said:

One time.  When he was 4 months old.  He is 8 months old now.

We went through this with my niece. It was very, very painful. I'm sorry you're going through it.

[hippymamato3]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Right.  She posts all these weird memes about boundaries and how she is the mom and blah blah blah.  I mean I don't know who in her world is crossing boundaries, but it sure is not us.  And one was 'just because you are something to my child doesn't mean you get to be in their life.'  Ds19 told me that is probably directed toward her bio dad from whom she is estranged.  

The only mildly confrontational thing I said to her was when she said the above about introducing him to 'new people'.  I said, 'new people?  Ok.  I guess I was thinking grandparents might be in a little different category than 'new people'.  Thank you for clarifying that.  Sleep well.'  After that I just mostly gave up.  I would send a text every few weeks saying 'hope you are all well.'  She would give one sentence replies.  

The weirdest thing was when dss24 called dh and said, 'can you mail us some diapers?'  And dh said, 'I have them in the car I will just drop them off to you.'  So dh gets to her parents house and dss24 comes onto the porch and says, 'her parents aren't home and are funny about people coming in when they are not home.'  And never offers to bring the baby to the door way or anything.  I absolutely do not believe that was dss24.....I think his wife is completely running the entire 'parent' show.  Either way, I thought it was pretty much cruel to do that to dh.

I would absolutely assume those memes are directed at you, especially since he chose not to see your DH for several years.

Edited April 12, 2021 by hippymamato3

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I would definitely let your dh drive that and just remove myself emotionally from the situation as much as possible as much as it stinks.   Relationships with kids after divorce can be complex.  It may be the wife, but he may just be using her as an excuse.  Since he resisted visitation it's pretty likely he has a spine and may still have some baggage.  If he really wanted to be building a relationship with his father, he would do it.  

It's also a season where lots of grandparents aren't really seeing grandkids.  Both my mother and my FIL are in close range and I think my FIL has seen my kids once outdoors in the past year.  My mother, maybe 2-3 times outdoors.  The people I know here with infants/toddlers have been pretty hunkered down.  I have a friend who waited many weeks to see a first grandchild after covid vaccines and there is a good relationship with everyone in the mix. 

I also don't think it's unusual for the mom's family to get more facetime with a new nursing mother if the mother-daughter relationship is strong.  Anyway, they sound like an immature  young couple and some people just need to learn some lessons the hard way. Maybe they'll figure it out sooner rather than later.

He is extremely easily influenced by whomever he is around.  When he resisted and refused visitation he was living with his step dad....the one his mom left dh for.  Once his mom left that step dad for another man, dss24 came to dh and apologized and said he realized it went down nothing like his mom had said and that he was seeing her for what she really is.  He and dh are actually good now.  I would say past that.   This feels like he is between a rock and a hard place.  

But that will be something he has to figure out.  Or maybe will never figure it out. 

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, hippymamato3 said:

I would absolutely assume those memes are directed at you, especially since he chose not to see your DH for several years.

Well, they aren't.  I feel pretty sure.  

[Scarlett]

10 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I would definitely let your dh drive that and just remove myself emotionally from the situation as much as possible as much as it stinks.   Relationships with kids after divorce can be complex.  It may be the wife, but he may just be using her as an excuse.  Since he resisted visitation it's pretty likely he has a spine and may still have some baggage.  If he really wanted to be building a relationship with his father, he would do it.  

It's also a season where lots of grandparents aren't really seeing grandkids.  Both my mother and my FIL are in close range and I think my FIL has seen my kids once outdoors in the past year.  My mother, maybe 2-3 times outdoors.  The people I know here with infants/toddlers have been pretty hunkered down.  I have a friend who waited many weeks to see a first grandchild after covid vaccines and there is a good relationship with everyone in the mix. 

I also don't think it's unusual for the mom's family to get more facetime with a new nursing mother if the mother-daughter relationship is strong.  Anyway, they sound like an immature  young couple and some people just need to learn some lessons the hard way. Maybe they'll figure it out sooner rather than later.

I can quite easily do this because as I said I have no bond with them.  And if they won't allow a bond to  be formed it just won't happen.  I do feel bad though because dh is so hurt and because ds24 seems upset. Yesterday dh told me he was sorry.  As if he had done something to me.  I said, 'It is fine, I am fine, you are the one I feel bad for, it is your son and grandson.'  And he said, 'your grandson too.'  So I know he wants me to care.  It is a difficult balance.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well, they aren't.  I feel pretty sure.  

She also posts things about 'not taking abuse' and if you are trying so hard and it isn't working maybe it is the wrong person, and then, 'everything I post is not a thing in my life.'  It is just exhausting. I don't follow her because she wears me out.

[Ausmumof3]

Sorry that all sounds a bit ridiculous.  Is this the step daughter in law where the whole family is into conspiracy theories etc?  I hope your step son is ok.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Sorry that all sounds a bit ridiculous.  Is this the step daughter in law where the whole family is into conspiracy theories etc?  I hope your step son is ok.

Yes that is the one. I don’t see posts like that from her or her mom but her step dad is just nuts. 

[Spryte]

Oh, that’s so hard.  I’m sorry, Scarlett.  The stepparent gig is never easy.  
 

 

[hippymamato3]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Well, they aren't.  I feel pretty sure.  

Good. That would feel awful to see. Hopefully your DSS figures things out with his wife in a way that can include you too. 

[Scarlett]

I feel like we need a term for when the whole boundaries thing is used to manipulate and exclude people.  
 

 

[bolt.]

24 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I feel like we need a term for when the whole boundaries thing is used to manipulate and exclude people.  
 

 

I think, really, that's just what regular boundaries feel like on 'the other side'.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I think, really, that's just what regular boundaries feel like on 'the other side'.

Being in the middle of it.....I can assure you the  kind of stuff my dss and his wife are doing  is not normal.  We ask nothing of them.  We don’t even ask them questions for fear it could be seen as too nosy. All we have done is gush about the baby and then their wedding and give gifts and compliments and check on them every month or so.  My Dh is dss’s father.  One who has taken incredible abuse from this misguided kid before dss24 grew up and came around and saw reality. So no I do not buy that every set of ‘boundaries’ is healthy just because someone decides to declare  them as such,  

[bolt.]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Being in the middle of it.....I can assure you the  kind of stuff my dss and his wife are doing  is not normal.  We ask nothing of them.  We don’t even ask them questions for fear it could be seen as too nosy. All we have done is gush about the baby and then their wedding and give gifts and compliments and check on them every month or so.  My Dh is dss’s father.  One who has taken incredible abuse from this misguided kid before dss24 grew up and came around and saw reality. So no I do not buy that every set of ‘boundaries’ is healthy just because someone decides to declare  them as such,  

I don't think every set of boundaries is healthy either. I just think they all feel the same way from an outside perspective.

Honestly (from my limited perspective) my guess is you are simply being ignored by people who don't care about you, and don't care that you care about them. I imagine that you aren't being manipulated: you're being written off... that you aren't being blacklisted for wrongdoing, you are being treated as irrelevant members of a complex extended family. I don't think you are being punished. It's more like you are just plain unimportant.

The decision of which members of an extended family are important enough to keep in touch with is a boundary that excludes people... and it feels exactly like what it is.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I don't think every set of boundaries is healthy either. I just think they all feel the same way from an outside perspective.

Honestly (from my limited perspective) my guess is you are simply being ignored by people who don't care about you, and don't care that you care about them. I imagine that you aren't being manipulated: you're being written off... that you aren't being blacklisted for wrongdoing, you are being treated as irrelevant members of a complex extended family. I don't think you are being punished. It's more like you are just plain unimportant.

The decision of which members of an extended family are important enough to keep in touch with is a boundary that excludes people... and it feels exactly like what it is.

Well, ok, then, yes I think you described it better than I did .  Except I don’t consider a parent extended family.  And I find that lack of care and respect extremely upsetting and concerning,