Utterly exhausted by ADHD, probably JAWM

[lauraw4321]

My oldest DD (12) and my husband have pretty severe ADHD. They both take meds. It’s not sufficient. I’m so tired of being the EF for them and me. I’m so tired of reminding them of the same things over and over and over. I’m so tired of feeling like Sisyphus. I’m bitter knowing neither of them will ever have any clue how much I hold together for them. I’m mad at my younger naive self for not having any clue what I was getting myself into marrying DH. For thinking that ADHD was a myth. I hate myself for having such negative thoughts and feelings about my own family. 

[Danae]

I so hear you. Wouldn’t it be nice to be able to slack off a bit once and a while without the entire family and household sliding into chaos? Don’t hate yourself, the feelings are normal.  

[SanDiegoMom]

I am so sorry.  I have a pretty severely adhd older daughter but my husband has good EF.  She was a mess in middle school and I actually gave up real parenting of her in 10th grade -- she was so strong willed. But since she was so strong willed, she eventually taught herself what to do.  Now she's at a point where about 85 percent of the time she can take care of herself well.  The other 15 she usually gets out of sync, has bad sleep, eats tons of sugar, and crashes.  Then she spends the next few days picking herself up again.   These times are getting less and less!

[Katy]

It’s okay to take a break. It’s okay to insist on cognitive behavioral therapy for both of them to learn to function better without you doing it for them. 

[ktgrok]

I'm the ADHD person here, and I do have weaknesses my DH has to compensate for. What I think keeps us going and him not being driven insane is that I also have strengths, so there are things I handle or take off his plate as well. We are very much a "divide and conquer" and "play to our strengths" couple. When we try to do things differently, and don't play to our strengths, it doesn't go well. 

[klmama]

((Laura))  It's really hard to be other people's brain.  Would you like suggestions of things that have helped others, or are you just venting?

[lauraw4321]

I’ll try to listen to ideas with an open mind. Right now everything seems like just another thing to do. 

[Harriet Vane]

No ideas

Just sympathy and warm hugs.

[PeterPan]

Fwiw, I think sometimes when people are saying they're being the brains for the person with ADHD, it's that the person with ADHD needs an additional label. Severe ADHD=ASD, and ASD=> obliviousness. (or more precisely, self awareness and others awareness deficits)

I'm not saying your peeps are on the spectrum. It's just when I need more ideas and tools, I start looking at the labels I don't want to hear and look for what those next step tools are. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by PeterPan

[Garga]

I didn’t realize just how much I had to do the thinking for everyone until I went alone to visit my parents for 8 days in the summer of 2019 (they live 2500 miles away.)

At first, I found myself trying to be the EF for my parents. For example, they’d say, “We’ll visit your aunt at 5:00,” and I’d say, “Ok, then I’ll set an alarm so that we all start getting ready at 4:45.” My parents would just stare at me like I was a little nutty. It took a two or three days, but I was amazed to discover that they could just get up and get themselves ready without any prompting and we’d all walk out the door at 5:00. 

Once I stopped trying to think for them, it was the most relaxing week of my adult life. Things would happen effortlessly. I didn’t feel like I was carrying a mental backpack of rocks everywhere I went. And there were no bizarre miscommunications that I have so often with my dh. His communication style is just weird and we go in circles in ways I don’t with anyone else.

The second the plane landed when I got back home, I texted my dh with where to meet me in the airport. He misunderstood (as usual) and tried to meet me somewhere else. I was just standing there waiting and waiting...and texted him again and found out he was in the wrong spot. In the car I said that I was thirsty and he offered me his 2-hour old tea that had been getting warm in the car. I declined because someone else’s warm lemon iced-tea just sounded gross. 10 minutes from home (we live over an hour from the airport), he said, “Oh, I brought you a soda in a cooler in the backseat.” 

It was like, “Welcome home! I’m going to mess up the simplest things for you and leave you hanging, even though I’m trying really hard not to!”  I mean, he thought ahead about the drink, but it took him an hour to remember to offer it to me once I was there even after I said I was thirsty. 

I’ve had to work very hard on accepting who they are. But boy oh boy do I hear you about how hard it is to think for 3 people. There’s a boardie with 4 or 5 kids with ADHD and she says it’s really hard being the brain for 6. I can’t even...

I also get frustrated that they do not seem to understand how hard I work to keep their lives together. In fact, sometimes they say, “you’re being controlling” or they get patronizing toward me as if I’m just uptight. Oh, does that ever push my buttons.

Once in a while, they will acknowledge that I saved them from some sort of screw up and they show real gratitude. But they have no idea how much I do that they don’t even notice. 

I’m mostly accepting of it after 29 years of marriage, but sometimes when I read a post like this, I can tell that I haven’t completely accepted it yet and I still have some complex feelings about the ADHD that’s messing with my relationships.  

 

Oh, another thing. My dh came to me one day all excited because he read that people with ADHD can be overly sensitive to criticism. Things that are not meant as criticism can be interpreted by an ADHD person that way and they get upset.  I think he thought my reaction would be, “Oh, you poor dear. You’ve been upset by things! Poor baby!”

My reaction was, “So all those times when I did NOTHING WRONG, and simply made a statement and you got your feelings butt hurt WERE NOT MY FAULT??”  I felt like I’d been gaslighted for decades. Now, gaslighting is actually when someone deliberately is messing with you, but in a way I had been gaslighted for all those years, though not with malicious intent. I would feel guilty for somehow upsetting him, though I could never figure out why he’d be so upset. I thought I must just be a meanie-head, even though no one else seemed to get upset by me. But, as it turns out, I did nothing wrong. His ADHD made him interpret benign statements as something more. All those days where he got sad and I couldn’t figure out what awful thing I’d done...because I hadn’t done anything awful. 

 

So...this has been a long journey. It’ll be 29 years in 2 months and I am not going anywhere and most days I am calm and cool about ADHD and not resentful. Most days I view my DS and DH with compassion because life really is harder for them and I know that’s gotta be tough.

But it’s not easy for any of us. I would never tell them these things because it would hurt them, but yes...the people who live with someone with ADHD don’t have an easy road either.

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Garga

[Garga]

51 minutes ago, klmama said:

((Laura))  It's really hard to be other people's brain.  Would you like suggestions of things that have helped others, or are you just venting?

I’d like to hear them for myself, if the OP doesn’t mind.

[lauraw4321]

9 minutes ago, Garga said:

I didn’t realize just how much I had to do the thinking for everyone until I went alone to visit my parents for 8 days in the summer of 2019 (they live 2500 miles away.)

At first, I found myself trying to be the EF for my parents. For example, they’d say, “We’ll visit your aunt at 5:00,” and I’d say, “Ok, then I’ll set an alarm so that we all start getting ready at 4:45.” My parents would just stare at me like I was a little nutty. It took a two or three days, but I was amazed to discover that they could just get up and get themselves ready without any prompting and we’d all walk out the door at 5:00. 

Once I stopped trying to think for them, it was the most relaxing week of my adult life. Things would happen effortlessly. I didn’t feel like I was carrying a mental backpack of rocks everywhere I went. And there were no bizarre miscommunications that I have so often with my dh. His communication style is just weird and we go in circles in ways I don’t with anyone else.

The second the plane landed when I got back home, I texted my dh with where to meet me in the airport. He misunderstood (as usual) and tried to meet me somewhere else. I was just standing there waiting and waiting...and texted him again and found out he was in the wrong spot. In the car I said that I was thirsty and he offered me his 2-hour old tea that had been getting warm in the car. I declined because someone else’s warm lemon iced-tea just sounded gross. 10 minutes from home (we live over an hour from the airport), he said, “Oh, I brought you a soda in a cooler in the backseat.” 

It was like, “Welcome home! I’m going to mess up the simplest things for you and leave you hanging, even though I’m trying really hard not to!”  I mean, he thought ahead about the drink, but it took him an hour to remember to offer it to me once I was there even after I said I was thirsty. 

I’ve had to work very hard on accepting who they are. But boy oh boy do I hear you about how hard it is to think for 3 people. There’s a boardie with 4 or 5 kids with ADHD and she says it’s really hard being the brain for 6. I can’t even...

I also get frustrated that they do not seem to understand how hard I work to keep their lives together. In fact, sometimes they say, “you’re being controlling” or they get patronizing toward me as if I’m just uptight. Oh, does that ever push my buttons.

Once in a while, they will acknowledge that I saved them from some sort of screw up and they show real gratitude. But they have no idea how much I do that they don’t even notice. 

I’m mostly accepting of it after 29 years of marriage, but sometimes when I read a post like this, I can tell that I haven’t completely accepted it yet and I still have some complex feelings about the ADHD that’s messing with my relationships.  

 

Oh, another thing. My dh came to me one day all excited because he read that people with ADHD can be overly sensitive to criticism. Things that are not meant as criticism can be interpreted by an ADHD person that way and they get upset.  I think he thought my reaction would be, “Oh, you poor dear. You’ve been upset by things! Poor baby!”

My reaction was, “So all those times when I did NOTHING WRONG, and simply made a statement and you got your feelings butt hurt WERE NOT MY FAULT??”  I felt like I’d been gaslighted for decades. Now, gaslighting is actually when someone deliberately is messing with you, but in a way I had been gaslighted for all those years, though not with malicious intent. I would feel guilty for somehow upsetting him, though I could never figure out why he’d be so upset. I thought I must just be a meanie-head, even though no one else seemed to get upset by me. But, as it turns out, I did nothing wrong. His ADHD made him interpret benign statements as something more. All those days where he got sad and I couldn’t figure out what awful thing I’d done...because I hadn’t done anything awful. 

 

So...this has been a long journey. It’ll be 29 years in 2 months and I am not going anywhere and most days I am calm and cool about ADHD and not resentful. Most days I view my DS and DH with compassion because life really is harder for them and I know that’s gotta be tough.

But it’s not easy for any of us. I would never tell them these things because it would hurt them, but yes...the people who live with someone with ADHD don’t have an easy road either.

 

This made me cry. I just now had one of those conversations you’re describing. And one of those benign statements that somehow started a fight / hurt feelings. 
 

his solution is for me to just *not* do all the things. But the consequences of that are too high. I feel so lonely but this made me feel not alone. 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, lauraw4321 said:

This made me cry. I just now had one of those conversations you’re describing. And one of those benign statements that somehow started a fight / hurt feelings. 
 

his solution is for me to just *not* do all the things. But the consequences of that are too high. I feel so lonely but this made me feel not alone. 

Are there some things you can drop? That don't have huge consequences? For your child, can they have less obligations so you don't have to manage so much? 

[prairiewindmomma]

One of the helpful things that I found, in negotiating all of the things with family members, is to make a list of them, write down the time commitment next to them, and then discuss the consequences of what will happen if we don't do the thing.

In some cases, I was completely right.  On a few things, I discovered that I have some perfectionistic tendencies that I just need to let go.  Like, tonight, when I needed to take in a vehicle for an oil change in a brief open hour on my schedule, I didn't make dinner. Nor did I bring home dinner. People are welcome to cereal or sandwiches or leftover. I don't need to carry mom guilt on not making dinner.  They are all freaking capable.

I have also been very open about the cognitive load of feeling responsible for all of the things.  I talk of that much more often, and I'm seeing slow progress of where people are stepping up a bit more.

But, it is a very, very heavy load. And I'm sorry. I don't know that others really get that. It really sucks sometimes.

[prairiewindmomma]

FWIW, I'm seriously considering a week somewhere tropical, by myself, when this whole covid thing is over.  All inclusive place. Hotel shuttle from the airport. No decision making.

[Garga]

1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

FWIW, I'm seriously considering a week somewhere tropical, by myself, when this whole covid thing is over.  All inclusive place. Hotel shuttle from the airport. No decision making.

You should. My visit with my parents was glorious. Each decision was simple. Things got done. No one messed anything up for themselves or for me. No one let me down, and then I didn’t have the emotional toil of comforting someone else who felt bad for letting me down.  

[Garga]

19 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

This made me cry. I just now had one of those conversations you’re describing. And one of those benign statements that somehow started a fight / hurt feelings. 
 

his solution is for me to just *not* do all the things. But the consequences of that are too high. I feel so lonely but this made me feel not alone. 

(((Hugs)))

There’s a book called “Is it You, me or Adult ADD?” I didn’t read the book, but I read the comments people made about the book on Amazon. That was the turning point for me. That’s when I realized I wasn’t alone.  

Just knowing that there are common issues that spouses of people with ADHD share, I was able to be more clinical about being married to someone with ADHD. I stopped internalizing the weird little arguments and I started being more objective. I started seeing that my DH and DS aren’t the problem and that I am not the problem, but the ADHD is. I could support them, but I wasn’t going to accept their assessment that I am “controlling”. When ADHD is involved, the support person must be “controlling” and I would not be shamed for that. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Garga

[PeterPan]

3 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

his solution is for me to just *not* do all the things.

I remember saying that when I was in college and being a pain in the butt to live with. It's sort of this wishfulness of good intentions, like I'd get it done and you're the problem doing it for me, haha. 

mindfulness-evidence based to bump EF, also bumps self awareness

https://www.kelly-mahler.com/what-is-interoception/ actual curriculum for self awareness. 

The brain also has an internal chronometer that keeps track of time that can be *very off*. Like I think mine was 50% off. As in calibrated off, consistently off, lol. Therefore NOTHING I did with time was going to work well without tools. I have to use alarms and timers any time I need to be on time, because even with the improvements in my sense of time (by practicing elapsed time, etc.), reality is I just have no clue. But that was that process of self awareness kicking in maturity, recognition, and willingness to use tools.

I also have zero sense of money. That's a lot harder to work with and it would be really astonishing if I was the person in charge of the finances. Zero clue. Like my dh was asking me what it would cost for a project (buying some new kitchen things) and I said $300. We added it up using the shopping cart at Target and it was WAY more, lol. That's the story of my life, zero clue. It takes a lot of structure to keep that on track.

https://www.rrdsb.com/UserFiles/Servers/Server_73620/File/Our%20Board/Departments/Special%20Education%20Services/ABA%20Prompting%20and%20Prompt%20Fading%20Newsletter%202.pdf  Here's a document on prompt fading. When you're telling them what to do and doing all the thinking, that's the most obvious prompt. You can read about the idea of a *faded* prompt and see if you can *lead* them into getting the task done. 

So for instance, I'm trying to get my ds to use alarms to wakeup in the morning so he can make his tele sessions consistently and independently. Prompts for that could be

-a direct command to set the alarm

-asking if he set the alarm

-asking what time he's planning to wake up tomorrow

-asking where the tech is that has the alarms

-observing that the tech is/is not there

-wishing good luck

-praising how well he's been doing

-asking if he needs anything when he wakes up tomorrow

and so on. 

See how they fade from very direct, with physical prompting and me handing the device to more and more requiring inference and thinking on his part? 

My ds requires significant support for almost everything frankly, including basic tasks like throwing away his night diapers, etc. He's super bright btw, technically gifted. I do not want to live a life of telling him every single step. I don't have it right now, but we've done it with written plans where you point to the plan that he then implements. I'm always looking for a way to fade prompts. I know I have to make sure things happen because I have to live with the consequences. Now sometimes he can deal with the consequences, but he can't afford to pay for cavities, to replace rugs that are stained with wet pajamas, etc. So I'm always looking for how I can *fade* the prompt. So it's not yes/no I told him but backing it off just a little to see if he can make that inference and engage mentally.

Busy people tend to over think for people and just give commands. My dh does this. And it's no honey, you really have to back off, do a faded prompt, let him think for himself. But the prompt has to be within reach so that if he thinks about it for a minute he's able to figure out what he's supposed to be doing. If I give a faded prompt and he DOESN'T figure it out, I'm gonna be right there rephrasing it, backing up, trying again a different way. 

There are EF coaches and "educational therapists" and even certification for this. But the person has to be engaging with the idea of their responsibility for that to work. And that's just once a week, not every day. 

[PeterPan]

13 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

FWIW, I'm seriously considering a week somewhere tropical, by myself, when this whole covid thing is over.  All inclusive place. Hotel shuttle from the airport. No decision making.

It's why I took up cruising. First time in 20-some years I had an actual vacation. No cooking, no cleaning out an RV, no changing wet beds, nothing. Just wake up, eat nice food, sun and sit around. I did the beach this winter because there's no cruising (sigh) and it was ok. Walking the beach was lovely. But even then it's stressful because you have to go find food and wrangle people. An all inclusive would probably be good like a cruise, just without the variety.

[Melissa in Australia]

Hugs

[marbel]

I am so sorry; I get it. For years I dealt with one kid's ADD and now am realizing that my other kid is showing symptoms of it as an adult. My husband also has seemed to have it for years, though till recently he could control it fairly well.  Well, and then I read this:

 

11 hours ago, Garga said:

Oh, another thing. My dh came to me one day all excited because he read that people with ADHD can be overly sensitive to criticism. Things that are not meant as criticism can be interpreted by an ADHD person that way and they get upset. 

This blew my mind today. I thought I had done a good bit of study on ADHD but reading this brought a whole new level of understanding. I have been so frustrated that my husband misreads me in a negative way so often. Not just words but also facial expressions. As in, he reads my surprised face as a mad face, and has for years despite my imploring him to stop trying to read my face. Now maybe I get it, and maybe if I can shoot an article or two about this to him, he'll get it too. 

[kbutton]

25 minutes ago, marbel said:

I am so sorry; I get it. For years I dealt with one kid's ADD and now am realizing that my other kid is showing symptoms of it as an adult. My husband also has seemed to have it for years, though till recently he could control it fairly well.  Well, and then I read this:

 

This blew my mind today. I thought I had done a good bit of study on ADHD but reading this brought a whole new level of understanding. I have been so frustrated that my husband misreads me in a negative way so often. Not just words but also facial expressions. As in, he reads my surprised face as a mad face, and has for years despite my imploring him to stop trying to read my face. Now maybe I get it, and maybe if I can shoot an article or two about this to him, he'll get it too. 

I think this can go both ways--DH with ADHD doesn't always realize that how he feels internally and what he is projecting on the outside are out of sync. He has a way of looking angry when he's agreeing with me. It looks just like when he's...angry (wrinkly Klingon forehead and all). Or, he thinks he's calm, but he's only told himself he's calm. He's still literally vibrating with un-calm head to toe. 

I think the hurt feelings here happen less with my facial expressions and more with what I'm asking for--getting irritated/upset when I go the extra mile to be sure xyz is happening or even really ordinary daily stuff that just strikes him as being controlled, checked on, etc. Any suggestion that he might screw up was seen as terrible vs. supportive, etc., but it's getting better than it was. If it was not, I think it's safe to say that we'd be separated at this point. I couldn't take the constant rejection on top of the constant screwing up.

 

[lauraw4321]

31 minutes ago, marbel said:

I am so sorry; I get it. For years I dealt with one kid's ADD and now am realizing that my other kid is showing symptoms of it as an adult. My husband also has seemed to have it for years, though till recently he could control it fairly well.  Well, and then I read this:

 

This blew my mind today. I thought I had done a good bit of study on ADHD but reading this brought a whole new level of understanding. I have been so frustrated that my husband misreads me in a negative way so often. Not just words but also facial expressions. As in, he reads my surprised face as a mad face, and has for years despite my imploring him to stop trying to read my face. Now maybe I get it, and maybe if I can shoot an article or two about this to him, he'll get it too. 

This is also new to me. We’ve come a long way, but things like this remind me how far we have to go. He didn’t know what executive function was when I married him, despite knowing about his diagnosis for years. 
 

I’m reaching out to the school counselor to see if there’s any school help available DD. 
 

What’s extra difficult is when sometimes the two of them are the team. Like he has to get her ready and to scouts sometimes. Those nights are the ones when she doesn’t have her uniform on, doesn’t have her scout book (or leaves it when he picks her up), doesn’t have a mask. If he’s the one getting her to the bus, then 1/3 times she misses it. The two of them are a kryptonite combination. I try to minimize those occurrences, but I can’t eliminate them. 

[kbutton]

13 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I'm the ADHD person here, and I do have weaknesses my DH has to compensate for. What I think keeps us going and him not being driven insane is that I also have strengths, so there are things I handle or take off his plate as well. We are very much a "divide and conquer" and "play to our strengths" couple. When we try to do things differently, and don't play to our strengths, it doesn't go well. 

This is a goal here, but it requires strategy, and my DH is not really into strategy unless it's for a board game. 🤪

[lauraw4321]

4 minutes ago, kbutton said:

This is a goal here, but it requires strategy, and my DH is not really into strategy unless it's for a board game. 🤪

I have taken tons off of my plate over the years, but it gets back-filled with other things. So I’m not responsible for his laundry anymore, but that is a tiny drop in an ocean of responsibilities. 

[Spy Car]

What is EF?

Anyway, my son's ADHD provides me with innumerable opportunities to grow as a human being.

I love that boy.

Bill

 

[lauraw4321]

Just now, Spy Car said:

What is EF?

Anyway, my son's ADHD provides me with innumerable opportunities to grow as a human being.

I love that boy.

Bill

 

Executive function. If you have a child with ADHD, you should learn about it. I love my husband and kids.  I hope you enjoy your self-righteousness. 

[Spy Car]

Just now, lauraw4321 said:

Executive function. If you have a child with ADHD, you should learn about it. I love my husband and kids.  I hope you enjoy your self-righteousness. 

Huh? Nothing remotely "self-righteous" in my attitude.

Sorry I didn't know EF stood for executive functioning. Shoot me.

I'm quite aware of the differences in the ADHD brain and the need for support that flows from this condition. Why so nasty?

Bill

[lauraw4321]

1 minute ago, Spy Car said:

Huh? Nothing remotely "self-righteous" in my attitude.

Sorry I didn't know EF stood for executive functioning. Shoot me.

I'm quite aware of the differences in the ADHD brain and the need for support that flows from this condition. Why so nasty?

Bill

Do you not think coming into this thread and talking about your love for your son and personal growth is a bit tone deaf?  The implications to me are that I don’t love my kid/husband and I need to grow more. 

[Spy Car]

Just now, lauraw4321 said:

Do you not think coming into this thread and talking about your love for your son and personal growth is a bit tone deaf?  The implications to me are that I don’t love my kid/husband and I need to grow more. 

No, I don't. Dealing ADHD is a clearly challenge.

Sorry if being light-hearted about the challenges offends you. 

I intended no implication that you don't love your family. 

Maybe you should seek professional help to help you cope? 

Bill

[marbel]

26 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

No, I don't. Dealing ADHD is a clearly challenge.

Sorry if being light-hearted about the challenges offends you. 

I intended no implication that you don't love your family. 

Maybe you should seek professional help to help you cope? 

Bill

I am generally not very sensitive, don't take offense easily, but.. your comment was pretty jarring even to me. Light-hearted can be difficult on a serious topic.

[Spy Car]

1 minute ago, marbel said:

I am generally not very sensitive, don't take offense easily, but.. your comment was pretty jarring even to me. Light-hearted can be difficult on a serious topic.

Jarring? I think it is pretty clear from my comments that I know very well that living with a child with ADHD presents its challenges. 

There was no offense intended in my comments. Not a bit.

I prefer to deal with life's challenges with a sense of humor and perspective intact. That's the path that works for me.

Bill

[Bootsie]

I am sorry that you are having such a difficult time and I know what you mean about being exhausted.  DH has never been diagnosed with ADHD, but there are many similarities.  I do not know which is more exasperating:  the fact that he doesn't notice what needs to be taken care of, the fact that he doesn't notice how much I am taking care of, or his complaints that he always has a list of things to do and I don't.  I don't have great solutions--but have learned some coping mechanisms over the years.  I went into the pantry this morning and a box of crackers is opened and turned upside down--How can you not close the box?  Why do you put it upside down?  On the bathroom counter, there is a bottle of tylenol with the lid on the counter, a bottle of ibuprofen that is unopened and knocked over with about a dozen tablets on the counter.  There is a prescription bottle left open and a bottle of vitamins with the lid sitting on top--not closed.  These have been like this for at least three days--how can he not close a bottle?  how does he not notice that it is spilled?  After days?  My consolation now is that I no longer have to worry about small children getting into the medicine when he does this.  I know that people say "just stop doing things" but when you are really having to say "close the prescription medicine bottle", "put the medicine away", "close the front door so the toddler doesn't run into the street", "turn off the stove" daily because you have small children in the house it is exhausting (as well as worrisome).

[lauraw4321]

5 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

I am sorry that you are having such a difficult time and I know what you mean about being exhausted.  DH has never been diagnosed with ADHD, but there are many similarities.  I do not know which is more exasperating:  the fact that he doesn't notice what needs to be taken care of, the fact that he doesn't notice how much I am taking care of, or his complaints that he always has a list of things to do and I don't.  I don't have great solutions--but have learned some coping mechanisms over the years.  I went into the pantry this morning and a box of crackers is opened and turned upside down--How can you not close the box?  Why do you put it upside down?  On the bathroom counter, there is a bottle of tylenol with the lid on the counter, a bottle of ibuprofen that is unopened and knocked over with about a dozen tablets on the counter.  There is a prescription bottle left open and a bottle of vitamins with the lid sitting on top--not closed.  These have been like this for at least three days--how can he not close a bottle?  how does he not notice that it is spilled?  After days?  My consolation now is that I no longer have to worry about small children getting into the medicine when he does this.  I know that people say "just stop doing things" but when you are really having to say "close the prescription medicine bottle", "put the medicine away", "close the front door so the toddler doesn't run into the street", "turn off the stove" daily because you have small children in the house it is exhausting (as well as worrisome).

Yes. Empty milk jugs? On the counter. Dirty socks? On the floor where they were removed. Open a wrapper? Leave it wherever you opened it. He has gotten good about medicine, thank God. 

[Bootsie]

3 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

Yes. Empty milk jugs? On the counter. Dirty socks? On the floor where they were removed. Open a wrapper? Leave it wherever you opened it. He has gotten good about medicine, thank God. 

If he has gotten good with medicine, that's great!  I have asked if trash cans need to be put other places to make them more convenient, but to no avail. Dirty socks, wrappers, etc. are minor annoyances to things that can be dangerous or do costly damage.  So, I try to ignore those things as often as possible. DH is dealing with his laundry mess as I right this.  Somehow he didn't notice that he was picking up a bunch of paper towels when he gathered his laundry and put it in the washing machine.  It is a MESS!  (I also see that there was a jump drive in the stack that he hasn't mentioned that he washed also).  It is his problem that he now has to deal with, but it also means that I can not use the washing machine now and that he can't get to the list of things that needed to be done today because the "fell of his radar screen".  So, it isn't like the mess is really limited to him.

[lauraw4321]

1 minute ago, Bootsie said:

If he has gotten good with medicine, that's great!  I have asked if trash cans need to be put other places to make them more convenient, but to no avail. Dirty socks, wrappers, etc. are minor annoyances to things that can be dangerous or do costly damage.  So, I try to ignore those things as often as possible. DH is dealing with his laundry mess as I right this.  Somehow he didn't notice that he was picking up a bunch of paper towels when he gathered his laundry and put it in the washing machine.  It is a MESS!  (I also see that there was a jump drive in the stack that he hasn't mentioned that he washed also).  It is his problem that he now has to deal with, but it also means that I can not use the washing machine now and that he can't get to the list of things that needed to be done today because the "fell of his radar screen".  So, it isn't like the mess is really limited to him.

Yes. This is an exact narrative of things that happen constantly. 

[ktgrok]

49 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

If he has gotten good with medicine, that's great!  I have asked if trash cans need to be put other places to make them more convenient, but to no avail. Dirty socks, wrappers, etc. are minor annoyances to things that can be dangerous or do costly damage.  So, I try to ignore those things as often as possible. DH is dealing with his laundry mess as I right this.  Somehow he didn't notice that he was picking up a bunch of paper towels when he gathered his laundry and put it in the washing machine.  It is a MESS!  (I also see that there was a jump drive in the stack that he hasn't mentioned that he washed also).  It is his problem that he now has to deal with, but it also means that I can not use the washing machine now and that he can't get to the list of things that needed to be done today because the "fell of his radar screen".  So, it isn't like the mess is really limited to him.

medication adjustment needed? All that describes me off meds. On meds I'm not perfect, but I actually notice that stuff AND have the ability to steer my brain away from what it was already thinking about, hit pause, and pick up the mess. Without meds...that is nearly or totally impossible on a regular basis. 

[Bootsie]

26 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

medication adjustment needed? All that describes me off meds. On meds I'm not perfect, but I actually notice that stuff AND have the ability to steer my brain away from what it was already thinking about, hit pause, and pick up the mess. Without meds...that is nearly or totally impossible on a regular basis. 

In DH's case no doctor or counselor has wanted to medicate for ADHD feeling that some things do not match ADHD; it hasn't been that they have not been thorough--they have considered many other things, including side effects of other medication, early onset dementia, and a long list of other possibilities.  One "explanation" is that he is off the charts as intuitive on Meyers-Briggs.  He doesn't take in much data from around him.  He can walk out of the house, get in his car and drive off, and never notice that a huge tree limb is covering my car parked next to him.  He has even had a lot of hearing tests because he doesn't "hear" the oven timer, the smoke alarm, the dog barking, etc.  

So without meds do you find that you don't notice things?  Or, is it more that you can't switch gears and take care of what you notice?  

 

[SanDiegoMom]

39 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

medication adjustment needed? All that describes me off meds. On meds I'm not perfect, but I actually notice that stuff AND have the ability to steer my brain away from what it was already thinking about, hit pause, and pick up the mess. Without meds...that is nearly or totally impossible on a regular basis. 

This.  I can see a huge difference in my daughter when her meds are working vs not.  When they aren't, I might be watching her eat and see food fall and get missed, or see her fingers get messy and she doesn't know.  Ive see her carry her key around while she is looking for her keys.

When her meds are right her adhd is barely noticeable.  She's on on Vyvanse, Strattera and Lexapro.  It works.  

The thing that doesn't work we have found out is sugar.  She is very sensitive to sugar (she struggles with sugar cravings) and if she overeats sugar it makes the adhd worse the next day. So the meds can't be as effective as usual. 

[SanDiegoMom]

Just now, Bootsie said:

In DH's case no doctor or counselor has wanted to medicate for ADHD feeling that some things do not match ADHD; it hasn't been that they have not been thorough--they have considered many other things, including side effects of other medication, early onset dementia, and a long list of other possibilities.  One "explanation" is that he is off the charts as intuitive on Meyers-Briggs.  He doesn't take in much data from around him.  He can walk out of the house, get in his car and drive off, and never notice that a huge tree limb is covering my car parked next to him.  He has even had a lot of hearing tests because he doesn't "hear" the oven timer, the smoke alarm, the dog barking, etc.  

So without meds do you find that you don't notice things?  Or, is it more that you can't switch gears and take care of what you notice?  

 

Weird. Those are all things that would happen to my daughter.  Her thoughts are so loud that she just doesn't see the stuff around her.  Meds make her thoughts quieter so that she can focus on the external better.  It's a pretty easy check too.  When she first took one dose of Ritalin she knew.  She got calm and productive and noticed things around her.  

[Carrie12345]

I’m really sorry. I’m the one with ADHD. Well, me and dd. When ds lived here, there was his ASD EF issues. And yet I’ve still been the main EF doer of the household.  Reasons or no reasons, it is an incredibly heavy load that absolutely has to be put down at some point, for however long possible.

[ktgrok]

10 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

In DH's case no doctor or counselor has wanted to medicate for ADHD feeling that some things do not match ADHD; it hasn't been that they have not been thorough--they have considered many other things, including side effects of other medication, early onset dementia, and a long list of other possibilities.  One "explanation" is that he is off the charts as intuitive on Meyers-Briggs.  He doesn't take in much data from around him.  He can walk out of the house, get in his car and drive off, and never notice that a huge tree limb is covering my car parked next to him.  He has even had a lot of hearing tests because he doesn't "hear" the oven timer, the smoke alarm, the dog barking, etc.  

So without meds do you find that you don't notice things?  Or, is it more that you can't switch gears and take care of what you notice?  

 

It's both. 

My husband can tell you things like that about me...i didn't notice he cut down the tree in the middle of our front yard for weeks! Or he was in a car with friends and they saw me on a highway, and drove up next to me, he was half out th window waving at me, and I never noticed. 

And even when I DO notice, it's like my brain is already commited to walking by or whatever, and yeah, I can thing, "I should pick that up" but I can't actually DO it. On meds, I can override my brain, and stop and pick up whatever it is. I actually commented to people the first time it happened - it was SO amazing that instead of walking by a used dryer sheet that had fallen on the floor I picked it up AND took it to the trash can in the next room. That stuff does NOT happen without meds. ONly way it got picked up before meds was when I set a task of picking up everything on the floor. When it was my primary task, fine, it gets picked up. But if my primary task is putting away the laundry, or just walking to the bathroom to pee, side tasks like "pick up piece of paper on the floor" DO NOT HAPPEN. With meds? I won't always pick it up or notice it, but I CAN pick it up, if I notice it. And I'm more likely to notice. 

9 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom said:

This.  I can see a huge difference in my daughter when her meds are working vs not.  When they aren't, I might be watching her eat and see food fall and get missed, or see her fingers get messy and she doesn't know.  Ive see her carry her key around while she is looking for her keys.

When her meds are right her adhd is barely noticeable.  She's on on Vyvanse, Strattera and Lexapro.  It works.  

The thing that doesn't work we have found out is sugar.  She is very sensitive to sugar (she struggles with sugar cravings) and if she overeats sugar it makes the adhd worse the next day. So the meds can't be as effective as usual. 

Yes, after too much sugar I'm foggy the next day. 

[kbutton]

6 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

In DH's case no doctor or counselor has wanted to medicate for ADHD feeling that some things do not match ADHD; it hasn't been that they have not been thorough--they have considered many other things, including side effects of other medication, early onset dementia, and a long list of other possibilities.  One "explanation" is that he is off the charts as intuitive on Meyers-Briggs.  He doesn't take in much data from around him.  He can walk out of the house, get in his car and drive off, and never notice that a huge tree limb is covering my car parked next to him.  He has even had a lot of hearing tests because he doesn't "hear" the oven timer, the smoke alarm, the dog barking, etc.  

So without meds do you find that you don't notice things?  Or, is it more that you can't switch gears and take care of what you notice?  

Regarding messes, it can sometimes be a visual processing issue instead of or on top of ADHD. Not always, but if someone has different visual processing or incomplete visual development (usually means both eyes are "lazy" eyes), then this stuff is very difficult apart from EF issues. 

So, as an intuitive, I am strategically messy--I will sometimes leave something that I know is going to get cleaned later, but if I am not the one doing the cleaning, I try to avoid doing this. On my own though, I will put dishes in an empty dishwasher, but I am not going to empty my sink multiple times a day when I'm alone if I am the one doing the dishes at the end. I will just pick a time and do them, not do little bits a dozen times per day (major disruption to my brain). I also won't generally make a small mess into a big one. But I will leave projects out because they are in progress (but I try to be neat even then). A lot of it has to do with whether or not someone is coming over, using the space, etc. If they are not, then I can't be made to sweat having my sewing machine up. I do make sure no one is going to sit on something full of pins, and if my project becomes my new life, I find a way to contain it reasonably in the vicinity of where the action is taking place. I just don't like to trade getting things done for "someone says this isn't neat." I do clean and organize very thoroughly at the end of a project.

Safety things are a non-negotiable for me (though after having a kid that was LESS safe some kinds of baby-proofing, I don't consider safety a one-size-fits-all list). The pills and things don't seem like an intuitive type problem, to me, but I do know that there are jokes about INTPs who are super messy and would not notice a kick me sign on their back. But I think that's more the P than the N. I believe, for instance, that INTJs rely primarily on their N, and INTPs on their T, but yet both are NT types with some serious overlap. I also seem to know more messy Ps than Js. 

[kbutton]

There are some people with ADHD that actually have pretty good EF for daily things--organization, initiation, keeping track of belongings, etc. but have issues with impulsivity (oh, look, there's a cool car, let me google it and forget what I'm doing), attention (huh?, what did you say? ten times in a row), etc. One of my three family members with ADHD is super organized (and not compulsively so, which I know can the flip side of ADHD), initiates household chores and projects, does things in a streamlined manner, etc. More so that many NT people I know. But that impulsive part can be really difficult, and attention absolutely won't happen when meds have worn off. But when the meds wear off, it's not like they lose things easily, etc. That's far less likely. The contrast is really interesting. 

 

[Bootsie]

28 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom said:

Weird. Those are all things that would happen to my daughter.  Her thoughts are so loud that she just doesn't see the stuff around her.  Meds make her thoughts quieter so that she can focus on the external better.  It's a pretty easy check too.  When she first took one dose of Ritalin she knew.  She got calm and productive and noticed things around her.  

I have had other people tell me that when they take Ritalin it helps them block out all of the things that they were noticing around them.  It made them feel like they were in a tunnel so that they could focus on just the task in front of them and not be distracted by all the other things they were noticing.  What you describe sounds all most the opposite.  Am I not understanding?  Or, does it impact different people differently?

[SanDiegoMom]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

I have had other people tell me that when they take Ritalin it helps them block out all of the things that they were noticing around them.  It made them feel like they were in a tunnel so that they could focus on just the task in front of them and not be distracted by all the other things they were noticing.  What you describe sounds all most the opposite.  Am I not understanding?  Or, does it impact different people differently?

Maybe the difference is how someone experiences ADHD? I mean, if someone has problems with external distractions, then I could see more of the tunnel metaphor. My daughter is very internally distracted and rarely sees anything if her brain is too loud.  She's one that could go brush her teeth and just stand there in front of the mirror for 40 minutes not brushing or moving -- completely in her own thoughts.  

[Garga]

5 hours ago, lauraw4321 said:

This is also new to me. We’ve come a long way, but things like this remind me how far we have to go. He didn’t know what executive function was when I married him, despite knowing about his diagnosis for years. 
 

I’m reaching out to the school counselor to see if there’s any school help available DD. 
 

What’s extra difficult is when sometimes the two of them are the team. Like he has to get her ready and to scouts sometimes. Those nights are the ones when she doesn’t have her uniform on, doesn’t have her scout book (or leaves it when he picks her up), doesn’t have a mask. If he’s the one getting her to the bus, then 1/3 times she misses it. The two of them are a kryptonite combination. I try to minimize those occurrences, but I can’t eliminate them. 

 

5 hours ago, marbel said:

I am so sorry; I get it. For years I dealt with one kid's ADD and now am realizing that my other kid is showing symptoms of it as an adult. My husband also has seemed to have it for years, though till recently he could control it fairly well.  Well, and then I read this:

 

This blew my mind today. I thought I had done a good bit of study on ADHD but reading this brought a whole new level of understanding. I have been so frustrated that my husband misreads me in a negative way so often. Not just words but also facial expressions. As in, he reads my surprised face as a mad face, and has for years despite my imploring him to stop trying to read my face. Now maybe I get it, and maybe if I can shoot an article or two about this to him, he'll get it too. 

For anyone else reading this, I looked up what it’s called:  rejection sensitive dysphoria. It’s not a pleasant thing to experience, so the person with ADHD who has it, does have a hard road.

I’m compassionate toward my DH and DS for having to deal with this issue. But for so many years, I was colored as the villain in the house, when I’m soooo not a villain.

It is incredibly hurtful to be painted as the villain when you’re not. And yes, when I realized I wasn’t a bad person (and neither was DH), but that his ADHD was messing with his mind, I felt some anger. I felt vindicated, but I felt a lot of anger. I became super resentful for all the times I’d been made out to be some sort of monster picking on everyone, when I wasn’t. 

This is what’s so hard about being married to someone with something like ADHD. He’s struggling to live with ADHD, but then, so am I. But my struggle isn’t always seen or supported. 

 

It’s totally different to be the parent of someone with ADHD vs the spouse of someone. I don’t expect my son to be a life partner with me. With my son, I expect to be more in the role of giver rather than taker.  But for a husband, I expect him to be my equal partner and have my back and to share the load with me and we give and take equally. 

Totally different when it’s a child vs a spouse. 

[PeterPan]

7 hours ago, SanDiegoMom said:

She is very sensitive to sugar (she struggles with sugar cravings) and if she overeats sugar it makes the adhd worse the next day. So the meds can't be as effective as usual. 

Total aside, but there is a connection between serotonin levels and the gut. I'm not totally up on it, but you can google. The gut affects levels of those mood hormones, and 2 of the three meds she's on involve those chemicals. So yeah it makes sense why her gut being off would affect it. I had a nutritionist start me on food combining years ago. She could research to see if something like that could get her some margin. For my ds I've been using D-Mannose, the stuff people take for UTIs. It is sorta the gut balancing goodness of cranberries but in a form I can actually get into my ds. It's not like we live like the devil, but I'm just looking for ways to give him margin.

[ktgrok]

7 hours ago, Bootsie said:

I have had other people tell me that when they take Ritalin it helps them block out all of the things that they were noticing around them.  It made them feel like they were in a tunnel so that they could focus on just the task in front of them and not be distracted by all the other things they were noticing.  What you describe sounds all most the opposite.  Am I not understanding?  Or, does it impact different people differently?

For me, taking meds means I have the ability to control my brain/body vs all the disparate thoughts in my head being equally loud and important. I have the ability to "turn down" or off or hit pause on thoughts long enough to pay attention to things around me, or conversely to pay attention to what I'm doing. 

Off meds, I didn't notice the tree that was cut down because I was too busy having to manage 14 different streams of thought about various things, "need to turn off the car, need to unbuckle, need to grab my purse, wait, still buckled - need to slide purse back off my arm and unbuckle for real, now where is my phone, there it is, what's for dinner, maybe we should start eating organic food, how long until dinner, crap, where is my phone now?, so hard to know when dinner is with the time change, get out of car, check for keys, open back van door, which bags to get first, does it matter? am I carrying enough? did I buy enough vegetables? Will they go bad before I at them? I should look into meal prep, maybe I should buy new storage containers, crap I dropped a bag, maybe I should grab another bag I could probably manage more, where are my house keys, how can I find them with my hands so full, oh, they are already in my hand, good, I hope the dogs don't rush the door, I wonder if DH cleaned while I was gone, he works too much, why isn't the door unlocking - oh, thats the button for the car, I have to use the key, crap the pizza is falling out of the bag, I need to remember to get my purse when I come out for the next load, maybe I hsould grab it first...

And that was a typical day, not a bad day. 

On meds it is more, "okay, got my keys, got my purse, no need to struggle with bags I can always come back for more"

I might START to think about veggies or meal prep but can stop myself and focus on what I'm doing. That leaves bandwith for noticing the tree is cut down or whatever. 

[Bootsie]

30 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

For me, taking meds means I have the ability to control my brain/body vs all the disparate thoughts in my head being equally loud and important. I have the ability to "turn down" or off or hit pause on thoughts long enough to pay attention to things around me, or conversely to pay attention to what I'm doing. 

Off meds, I didn't notice the tree that was cut down because I was too busy having to manage 14 different streams of thought about various things, "need to turn off the car, need to unbuckle, need to grab my purse, wait, still buckled - need to slide purse back off my arm and unbuckle for real, now where is my phone, there it is, what's for dinner, maybe we should start eating organic food, how long until dinner, crap, where is my phone now?, so hard to know when dinner is with the time change, get out of car, check for keys, open back van door, which bags to get first, does it matter? am I carrying enough? did I buy enough vegetables? Will they go bad before I at them? I should look into meal prep, maybe I should buy new storage containers, crap I dropped a bag, maybe I should grab another bag I could probably manage more, where are my house keys, how can I find them with my hands so full, oh, they are already in my hand, good, I hope the dogs don't rush the door, I wonder if DH cleaned while I was gone, he works too much, why isn't the door unlocking - oh, thats the button for the car, I have to use the key, crap the pizza is falling out of the bag, I need to remember to get my purse when I come out for the next load, maybe I hsould grab it first...

And that was a typical day, not a bad day. 

On meds it is more, "okay, got my keys, got my purse, no need to struggle with bags I can always come back for more"

I might START to think about veggies or meal prep but can stop myself and focus on what I'm doing. That leaves bandwith for noticing the tree is cut down or whatever. 

Wow!  Thanks for the explanation.  That sounds exhausting!