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Colleges requiring covid vaccine to live on campus


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A couple of colleges in Michigan have recently announced that they won't require it, but those students who choose not to vaccinate and provide proof to the health center, will have to continue with masks, social distancing, take out food from the dining halls, and go to the quarantine dorm if contact traced about possible exposure, and may also be ineligible for certain activities on campus such as playing a sport or performing in band/orchestra/choir until the campus has reached 70% immunization rate at which time then all restrictions for the whole campus will be removed. I am okay with that. Those who are opposed to or can't take the vaccine can still attend college and live on campus,  but the restrictions which protect them and reduce the risk of outbreak on campus remain in place until a good measure of herd immunity is reached. I think it will be a pain in the neck for these schools to manage, but good on them for being willing to do it. I would imagine there will be people who balk. But there is no constitutional right to attend college or any specific college, so I do not think they have any kind of valid complaint.

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My Alabama kid's U released a letter than if you are fully vaccinated, you don't need to wear a mask on campus in the fall. If you aren't fully vacvinated, you will need to continue to wear a mask & social distance. They are not requiring vaccination and the governor just signed a bill disallowing the state or business to use/require "vaccine passports." So, I think very few will mask up in the fall as there is no way to check who is vaccinated & who is not. (Most of DD's friend group were vaxxed before she was due to eligibility/ availability.)

My dd#2's college (different state) released a similar letter except without the state denying vaccine pasports. The state & college have already announced they will not be requiring Covid vaccinations this fall. The difference here is very few of her peers will likely be vaccinated. Different mindset.

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23 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

My Alabama kid's U released a letter than if you are fully vaccinated, you don't need to wear a mask on campus in the fall. If you aren't fully vacvinated, you will need to continue to wear a mask & social distance. They are not requiring vaccination and the governor just signed a bill disallowing the state or business to use/require "vaccine passports." So, I think very few will mask up in the fall as there is no way to check who is vaccinated & who is not. (Most of DD's friend group were vaxxed before she was due to eligibility/ availability.)

My dd#2's college (different state) released a similar letter except without the state denying vaccine pasports. The state & college have already announced they will not be requiring Covid vaccinations this fall. The difference here is very few of her peers will likely be vaccinated. Different mindset.

Interesting, since 501 education organizations are not businesses and private colleges are not state sponsored, I wonder if those schools could still require it.

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2 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Interesting, since 501 education organizations are not businesses and private colleges are not state sponsored, I wonder if those schools could still require it.

I don't know the ins & outs of the new law. I don't have to deal with it personally so I just noted it when I saw reference to it. The parents' group for the U & a couple of local Reddit groups are my usual sources of info on happenings from that area that aren't directly related to my DD#1.

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On 5/7/2021 at 2:11 PM, Myra said:

My son will walk for his Masters Degree next week.  They are requiring all graduates and their four guests provide either proof of two vaccinations with last dose at least 2 weeks prior to grad date OR note from doctor saying recovered from Covid  OR a negative test within 72 hours of grad date.

 

This is going to be hard for his younger brother who wants to come from across state for the ceremony as his second shot date will be only 6 days prior so  he'll have to figure out where to get tested and get results quickly as he works on Friday, and has a 12 hour drive already to get to college on Saturday... so the 72 hour cut off will be close..

 

Yikes

so the graduation was nice - 

younger brother got home in time for the family road trip 6 hours each way to the college

it was great to hear my two sons chatter the entire way - who knows when, or if, we'll ever have a long family car trip again.  We even had a chance to quickly run to Niagara Falls for a quick look and photo op before the ceremony

 

But here's the thing - following the college's covid mandate for graduation we each took online questionnaire and printed it off, brought our covid vaccination cards. and we did the required drive through nasal squab for  youngest son since his second dose was only 6 days prior not the 2-week window the college wanted & got paperwork showing negative test - cost $65) 

BUT

when we got to graduation college officials just asked do you have your paperwork - we said yes and was told no need to show us the paperwork just go in and get a seat!   No one at all was checked - in our group or even any other group!

Totally unbelievable - we jumped through hoops and paid the $$ for absolutely no reason.   

 

 

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6 hours ago, JennyD said:

Vanderbilt said a few weeks ago that all students would have to be vaccinated for the upcoming school year.  They just announced that all faculty, staff, and postdocs will also have to be vaccinated for the 2021-22 school year.   

They also lifted all mask requirements for vaccinated people, in all settings, effective immediately.  Outdoor gatherings are no longer size-limited and it looks like indoor gatherings aren't going to be, either.  No more asymptomatic testing for vaccinated folks on campus during the summer, and food and drink is allowed at university events.

There's more, but everything seems to point to mandatory vaccination + everything goes back to normal for the fall.

I think this is what is planned at Agnes Scott as well, except that they aren't lifting restrictions until Fall, when 100% of the campus is required to be vaccinated or have a medical waiver. 

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6 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

A couple of colleges in Michigan have recently announced that they won't require it, but those students who choose not to vaccinate and provide proof to the health center, will have to continue with masks, social distancing, take out food from the dining halls...

How on earth can the school plan classrooms if an unknown percentage of students will need to distance?

There is no way to make this work in practice. 

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42 minutes ago, regentrude said:

How on earth can the school plan classrooms if an unknown percentage of students will need to distance?

There is no way to make this work in practice. 

The unvaxed, ie did not upload vaccine card info to Health services, will be tracked. These are small state schools. One of them has a professor to student ratio of 15:1, with many freshman gen eds not having more than 30 students except college writing and college algebra. The few large classes will have unvaccinated students by zoom only. The others will be in person if there are relatively few unvaxed students per class. The one school when they requested that students get the flu vaccine last fall in order to prevent flu and covid from going around, had more than 85% of their students go get the vax. The other school had 82%. 

It won't be an unknown percentage of students. They have to upload their vaccine info to the health services App by August 1 (classes start Aug 22 or whatever that Monday is), and anyone who doesn't have it uploaded by then is assumed unvaxed. They will then work out the schedules. There isn't a single class on campus with more than 50 students and those are reserved for lecture halls that seat 100 or more. Given how quickly both of those institutions responded to covid and the shut down last year, and provided an amazing transition to online learning, and then this past year managed hybrid classes in order to maintain social distancing ending this year with them receiving commendations from the governor for the lack of outbreaks on their campuses and wonderful numbers, I think they already have this plan worked out well.

But I agree that it is untenable at larger schools with huge classes and large student to professor ratios.

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38 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

with many freshman gen eds not having more than 30 students except college writing and college algebra. The few large classes will have unvaccinated students by zoom only. The others will be in person if there are relatively few unvaxed students per class. 

It won't be an unknown percentage of students. They have to upload their vaccine info to the health services App by August 1 (classes start Aug 22 or whatever that Monday is), and anyone who doesn't have it uploaded by then is assumed unvaxed. They will then work out the schedules. There isn't a single class on campus with more than 50 students and those are reserved for lecture halls that seat 100 or more. 

But I agree that it is untenable at larger schools with huge classes and large student to professor ratios.

Even with classes of 30 students, providing enough space for distancing of the unvaxed may require the use of the few available larger rooms.

Our smaller classrooms which seat 35 would lose over 10 seats if three students required 6 ft bubbles around them. ( under full distancing, we could seat only 9 students). That would mean needing 33% more sections and instructors, which cannot be arranged with a 3 week notice. The only alternative is hybrid again ( teaching simultaneously on Zoom and live sucks)

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36 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Even with classes of 30 students, providing enough space for distancing of the unvaxed may require the use of the few available larger rooms.

Our smaller classrooms which seat 35 would lose over 10 seats if three students required 6 ft bubbles around them. ( under full distancing, we could seat only 9 students). That would mean needing 33% more sections and instructors, which cannot be arranged with a 3 week notice. The only alternative is hybrid again ( teaching simultaneously on Zoom and live sucks)

I can understand that at your institution you don't have the space. These institutions do. Last year they put the larger classes in the ballrooms and many other absolutely huge spaces. And unvaxed students have been warned that they will face hybrid if necessary. Having been on both campuses and knowing how huge the rooms are in relation to the number of students, the fact that they have been honored for how well they handled things this year, and I know students on both campuses that thrived as well as professors at both colleges, I don't think they have a handle on things. Hybrid was very successful last year, but they didn't use zoom so potentially they had easier to use software for all involved. Some administrative personnel will remain work from home so the administrative buildings are fairly empty creating more space, and both schools hired faculty.

By junior year, class sizes average 12 and rarely go above 20.

I was not claiming it would work for many or even any other schools just relating what they are doing, and I believe they make it work because they are known for lots of resources, ingenuity, and outside the box thinking. And again, restrictions end except unvaxed students must continue to wear masks and have take out food only from the dining halls until the campuses reach 70%. Many Michigan college students want life on campus to ease up and get back to normal which hopefully will drive the vaccination rates higher. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
13 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

This is exactly what I queried weeks ago

Colleges Say Students Must Get a Covid Vaccine. But No, Not That One. https://nyti.ms/3ceyLOj

Screenshot_20210603-203651_NYTimes.jpg

Unfortunately, from a public health standpoint, I think some of this uncertainty of exactly what the rules will be in a few months is discouraging, rather than encouraging, young people to vaccinate.  I know some college students who think that their own COVID risk is quite low and are not interested in vaccinating for their own benefit but are willing to to help reduce the spread.  Their universities, however, have made statements such as "if you are vaccinated within the past 6 months and are exposed, you don't have to quarantined"--these young people see a disadvantage of vaccinating in May or June and having their 6 month clock expire during the semester.  They would prefer to wait until the last minute.  Then, if you throw in other variables such as whether a particular vaccine will be counted, it just adds another variable and they are more likely to take a wait-and-see approach

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Posted (edited)

Agnes Scott has said that for students vaccinated outside the USA, any govt approved and completed sequence counts, so a student vaccinated in India (or any other country) would not need to be vaccinated again, even if WHO has not approved it. 

 

My guess is the number of non-US students who will be able to get a visa for fall will be low, compared to the ones who got stuck here. (Agnes Scott pretty much only had international students on campus this past year), and have been vaccinated in the USA. 

Edited by Dmmetler
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Posted (edited)

My daughter's university is not requiring a vax; however, they are making huge incentives to do so:

No vaccine: They must submit to random Covid tests. They are not having any video if you miss class. You must quarantine off campus at your own expense, etc.  You MUST wear a mask, with checks.  Basically, your life will be much easier if you do get a vaccine. 

Everyone except a few freshman ( her being one) in her degree program were vaccinated before school let out anyway.  She couldn't because she was traveling home on the day they offered the vaccine on campus. 

I feel like this is the right way to handle it. 

Edited by TexasProud
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37 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

My daughter's university is not requiring a vax; however, they are making huge incentives to do so:

No vaccine: They must submit to random Covid tests. They are not having any video if you miss class. You must quarantine off campus at your own expense, etc.  You MUST wear a mask, with checks.  Basically, your life will be much easier if you do get a vaccine. 

Everyone except a few freshman ( her being one) in her degree program were vaccinated before school let out anyway.  She couldn't because she was traveling home on the day they offered the vaccine on campus. 

I feel like this is the right way to handle it. 

I am wondering about the logistics of the bolded.  I can see how the health center would have info regarding who was vaxed and could randomly call in non-vaxed students for COVID tests.  But, who would be doing the mask checking? Would vaccination status fall under protected health information?  So, only those who had a legitimate reason to know the vaccination status would be given the information.  I can't see professors having a list of who is or is not vaccinated in their classrooms and checking to see if those who are not are complying with wearing a mask.  Then, would the professor announce, "Sally you need to put on your mask?"  so the entire class hears it?  That sounds like a logistical nightmare, but it also raises a question of who has the right to know health information.  

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2 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

I am wondering about the logistics of the bolded.  I can see how the health center would have info regarding who was vaxed and could randomly call in non-vaxed students for COVID tests.  But, who would be doing the mask checking? Would vaccination status fall under protected health information?  So, only those who had a legitimate reason to know the vaccination status would be given the information.  I can't see professors having a list of who is or is not vaccinated in their classrooms and checking to see if those who are not are complying with wearing a mask.  Then, would the professor announce, "Sally you need to put on your mask?"  so the entire class hears it?  That sounds like a logistical nightmare, but it also raises a question of who has the right to know health information.  

This. In my lecture hall with 140 students I have no way of knowing who is who and who should be wearing a mask. Calling roll would be ridiculously time consuming. This is completely unenforceable.

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On 5/25/2021 at 11:56 AM, RootAnn said:

My Alabama kid's U released a letter than if you are fully vaccinated, you don't need to wear a mask on campus in the fall. If you aren't fully vacvinated, you will need to continue to wear a mask & social distance. They are not requiring vaccination and the governor just signed a bill disallowing the state or business to use/require "vaccine passports." So, I think very few will mask up in the fall as there is no way to check who is vaccinated & who is not. (Most of DD's friend group were vaxxed before she was due to eligibility/ availability.)

My dd#2's college (different state) released a similar letter except without the state denying vaccine pasports. The state & college have already announced they will not be requiring Covid vaccinations this fall. The difference here is very few of her peers will likely be vaccinated. Different mindset.

I wonder if you could answer a US government question for me as I did not receive my education here. How is it considered not OK for a business to impose a rule like requiring a vaccine, yet it is OK for the government to not allow the business to require it. I thought that generally, people with the same political persuasions as the Alabama governor, believed in limited government interference in people’s lives. This may be too political, I guess, and if so I’ll delete, but it is a genuine question because I don’t understand the logic, or the principle.

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5 minutes ago, TCB said:

I wonder if you could answer a US government question for me as I did not receive my education here. How is it considered not OK for a business to impose a rule like requiring a vaccine, yet it is OK for the government to not allow the business to require it. I thought that generally, people with the same political persuasions as the Alabama governor, believed in limited government interference in people’s lives. This may be too political, I guess, and if so I’ll delete, but it is a genuine question because I don’t understand the logic, or the principle.

I am not sure what the particulars are in Alabama, but my understanding is that it is about the use of a "vaccination passport" rather than a requirement to or not have a vaccine; so it is more about the method of proof of vaccination than a requirement of a vaccination.  

With regards to universities, some state governments have said that if the school receives any govt funding then they cannot require vaccination.  A purely private business can.  

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36 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

I am not sure what the particulars are in Alabama, but my understanding is that it is about the use of a "vaccination passport" rather than a requirement to or not have a vaccine; so it is more about the method of proof of vaccination than a requirement of a vaccination.  

No the laws in question also prohibit requiring any kind of proof of vaccination status, not just government issued "vaccine passports." E.g., Alabama explicitly prohibits any business "from refusing service to an individual based on that individual's immunization status." The bill signed by DeSantis states "A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business operations in this state." (Apparently the cruise lines called his bluff and said "ok, then we will avoid Florida ports," so rumor has it that he is looking to carve out a special exception for cruise lines.)

 

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On 5/25/2021 at 6:07 PM, regentrude said:

How on earth can the school plan classrooms if an unknown percentage of students will need to distance?

There is no way to make this work in practice. 

Well the whole thing about distancing is hogwash scientifically.  Presumably the vaccinated do not have much to fear from the unvaccinated.  What would behoove universities and lots of institutions is to get N95 or KN95 masks that unvaccinated would wear.

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Anyway, the Alabama law is super easy to get around from--- don't require vaccine in school but tell kids if they show proof they don't have to mask, etc.  THen it is on them whether to comply or not.  It just gives them more benefits.

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1 hour ago, TCB said:

I wonder if you could answer a US government question for me as I did not receive my education here. How is it considered not OK for a business to impose a rule like requiring a vaccine, yet it is OK for the government to not allow the business to require it. I thought that generally, people with the same political persuasions as the Alabama governor, believed in limited government interference in people’s lives. This may be too political, I guess, and if so I’ll delete, but it is a genuine question because I don’t understand the logic, or the principle.

They believe in limited government interference in their lives. They are very pro-government-interference in the lives of people they disagree with. 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Anyway, the Alabama law is super easy to get around from--- don't require vaccine in school but tell kids if they show proof they don't have to mask, etc.  THen it is on them whether to comply or not.  It just gives them more benefits.

The law prohibits any business in the state of Alabama from requiring proof of vaccination status; I'm not sure how businesses can "easily get around" that. I'm sure there are some businesses (such as hairdressers, masseuses, sport or recreational facilities, and other businesses that involve close physical contact) that might want to ensure customers are vaccinated — or at least know who isn't vaccinated so they can wear masks or take other precautions. This law takes away the right of private businesses to protect themselves.

Edited by Corraleno
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7 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

They believe in limited government interference in their lives. They are very pro-government-interference in the lives of people they disagree with. 

This might be true of some but I would say that the belief of others would be to keep government from interfering with individual's rights to travel, attend, participate (etc.) in activities that they previously unrestrictedly did pre-pandemic.

I don't believe in restricting or forcing private business in terms of its practices whether in who they sell to or who they don't sell to with or without proof of vaccination.

I've also never been a fan of the federal government's carrot approach when they are using my (husband's) tax dollars as the carrot. (Road $$, Race to the Top $$, etc)

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1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

No the laws in question also prohibit requiring any kind of proof of vaccination status, not just government issued "vaccine passports." E.g., Alabama explicitly prohibits any business "from refusing service to an individual based on that individual's immunization status." The bill signed by DeSantis states "A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business operations in this state." (Apparently the cruise lines called his bluff and said "ok, then we will avoid Florida ports," so rumor has it that he is looking to carve out a special exception for cruise lines.)

 

Thanks for the clarification.  All of the headlines and news stories I had seen only referred to the prohibition of vaccine passports and had not detailed the prohibition of denying service to those who are not vaccinated.

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1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

No the laws in question also prohibit requiring any kind of proof of vaccination status, not just government issued "vaccine passports." E.g., Alabama explicitly prohibits any business "from refusing service to an individual based on that individual's immunization status." The bill signed by DeSantis states "A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business operations in this state." (Apparently the cruise lines called his bluff and said "ok, then we will avoid Florida ports," so rumor has it that he is looking to carve out a special exception for cruise lines.)

 

They already carved out an exception for ‘theme parks’. Gee, I wonder why.

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Agnes has sent out more clarification on the policies. Decatur requires masks in indoor public spaces, therefore masks will be required off campus and in buildings on campus that have public access, including the library, bookstore, museums, observatory and athletic center. They will also be required during some campus events, such as move-in and Black Cat (homecoming). They will not normally be required in dorms, classrooms, and on campus dining, because campus is a vaccinated bubble. Participants in on campus continuing education  and  programs will be required to show proof of vaccination or wear a mask (presumably the latter is for children's programming).

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 4/23/2021 at 11:37 AM, AbcdeDooDah said:

After FDA approval

 

On 4/23/2021 at 11:42 AM, Spy Car said:

Thank you for the correction. The mandate is contingent on pending approval.

Bill

Both UC and CSU updated to no longer pending FDA full approval.

https://www2.calstate.edu/csu-system/news/Pages/California-State-University-to-Implement-COVID-19-Vaccination-Requirement-for-Fall-2021-Term.aspx

"The California State University announced today that it will require faculty, staff and students who are accessing campus facilities at any university location to be immunized against SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. Because of evolving circumstances, the university is announcing the pending requirement now without waiting for any further action by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. Dates by which faculty, staff and students must certify vaccination will vary by campus due to differences in academic calendars, but all certifications must be completed no later than September 30.

“The current surge in COVID cases due to the spread of the highly infectious Delta variant is an alarming new factor that we must consider as we look to maintain the health and well-being of students, employees and visitors to our campuses this fall," said CSU Chancellor Joseph I. Castro. “Receiving a COVID vaccine continues to be the best way to mitigate the spread of the virus. We urge all members of the CSU community to get vaccinated as soon as possible, and announcing this requirement now allows members of the CSU community to receive multiple doses of a vaccine as we head into the beginning of the fall term."

Several CSU campuses are serving as host facilities for vaccine distribution. CSU employees or students who wish to receive a COVID-19 vaccine should contact their campus for availability.

For students who plan to continue their studies but do not wish to come to campus during the fall, it is expected that most campuses will have a more expansive offering of virtual courses as compared to before the pandemic, though resource limitations do not allow for a campus' or even a program's full offerings to be made available virtually.

The CSU's COVID-19 vaccination policy will allow students and employees to seek medical and religious exemptions.

For represented employees the university's requirement will take effect immediately upon implementation of the policy; however, represented employees will not be subject to disciplinary action while the CSU is in the meet and confer process with its labor unions.

The university will share a final policy in the coming days."

https://ucnet.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/2021/07/ucs-covid-19-vaccine-policy.html

"

After an extensive consultation period that found strong support within the university community for moving forward with a COVID-19 vaccination requirement, UC’s final policy regarding required COVID-19 vaccinations has been approved. There is also a comprehensive set of frequently asked questions about the policy for employeesPDF that address many questions and concerns.

UC’s approach to required COVID-19 vaccinations can be summarized as follows:

  • For the safety and well-being of the entire university community, the policy will require, with few exceptions, that all students, faculty and staff be vaccinated against the COVID-19 virus before they will be allowed on campus or in a facility or office.
  • Individuals will be required to show proof of vaccination, and UC locations are preparing for how they will record individual vaccination status.
  • For campuses, compliance with the policy will be required two weeks before faculty, staff and students are expected to be on campus for the fall term.
  • The policy will allow for medical exemptions consistent with CDC guidance and manufacturer labeling on contraindications and precautions. As with other policies, and, in the case of employees as required by federal and California law, faculty, staff and students will also be eligible to request accommodations based on disability or religious belief, and deferrals are available for those who are pregnant.
  • Those with approved exemptions, accommodations or deferrals may return to their location with the expectation that they will remain masked in all public settings, and comply with the local testing plan.
  • Employees who choose not to be vaccinated, and have no approved exemption, accommodation or deferral, potentially put others’ health at risk and may face disciplinary actions.

Guidelines for how the policy will be implemented systemwide are being finalized and are expected to be issued next week. Look for more information from your location."

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Tomorrow's report may change things on college campuses:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/

“I think the central issue is that vaccinated people are probably involved to a substantial extent in the transmission of delta,” Jeffrey Shaman, a Columbia University epidemiologist, wrote in an email after reviewing the CDC slides. “In some sense, vaccination is now about personal protection — protecting oneself against severe disease. Herd immunity is not relevant as we are seeing plenty of evidence of repeat and breakthrough infections.”

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3 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

Tomorrow's report may change things on college campuses:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/

“I think the central issue is that vaccinated people are probably involved to a substantial extent in the transmission of delta,” Jeffrey Shaman, a Columbia University epidemiologist, wrote in an email after reviewing the CDC slides. “In some sense, vaccination is now about personal protection — protecting oneself against severe disease. Herd immunity is not relevant as we are seeing plenty of evidence of repeat and breakthrough infections.”

Why would that make colleges less likely to require vaccines? 
 

I think the only thing that will change is that the universities that are already requiring vaccines will, if they don’t already, require masks and testing for students. And the universities that don’t require vaccines will have a heck of a lot more sick students who risk losing IQ points that they likely can’t afford to lose.

Edited by bibiche
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Meaning I imagine things could change with regards to masking/testing/in-person classes/etc. But also, if what this epidemiologist states is true, then you're mandating something that is no longer for the greater good (original reason for mandates) but instead good for the individual. 

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2 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

Meaning I imagine things could change with regards to masking/testing/in-person classes/etc. But also, if what this epidemiologist states is true, then you're mandating something that is no longer for the greater good (original reason for mandates) but instead good for the individual. 

I could also say that vaccination mandates are for the greater good because if the majority of the vaccinated cases do not require hospitalization, then the hospitals won’t be overwhelmed and non covid cases can get better care.

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7 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

Meaning I imagine things could change with regards to masking/testing/in-person classes/etc. But also, if what this epidemiologist states is true, then you're mandating something that is no longer for the greater good (original reason for mandates) but instead good for the individual. 

That’s asinine. The more people who are vaccinated, the fewer people who will get sick. Lowering the caseload will prevent further variants. Have you already had Covid?! There seems to be evidence it lowers IQ. 

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15 minutes ago, bibiche said:

That’s asinine. The more people who are vaccinated, the fewer people who will get sick. Lowering the caseload will prevent further variants. Have you already had Covid?! There seems to be evidence it lowers IQ. 

Nice

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6 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Personal attacks say everything about the person who makes them and nothing about you. 

What my post is trying to convey is that I and most other reasonable members of our society are incredibly frustrated and have had enough of the selfishness of Covid deniers and anti-vaxxers. Their ignorance and idiocy is literally killing people. I refuse to humor it. 

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2 minutes ago, bibiche said:

What my post is trying to convey is that I and most other reasonable members of our society are incredibly frustrated and have had enough of the selfishness of Covid deniers and anti-vaxxers. Their ignorance and idiocy is literally killing people. I refuse to humor it. 

Or you could have apologized.

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Just now, AbcdeDooDah said:

Or you could have apologized.

Yeah, I’ll apologize when Covid deniers, anti-vaxxers, and anti-maskers apologize for killing their fellow citizens, how’s that? 

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Just now, bibiche said:

Yeah, I’ll apologize when Covid deniers, anti-vaxxers, and anti-maskers apologize for killing their fellow citizens, how’s that? 

Suit yourself. Personal attacks won't help you meet your goal. 

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49 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

I could also say that vaccination mandates are for the greater good because if the majority of the vaccinated cases do not require hospitalization, then the hospitals won’t be overwhelmed and non covid cases can get better care.

Yes. Even though the Delta surge is just starting here, emergency rooms have been really overwhelmed for the last few weeks. And now some hospitals are going back to no elective surgeries requiring overnights. While my state has done relatively well death wise overall during the pandemic, we have a very poor per capita hospital bed ratio. So it doesn’t take much to pretty quickly overwhelm the system.

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2 hours ago, whitestavern said:

But also, if what this epidemiologist states is true, then you're mandating something that is no longer for the greater good (original reason for mandates) but instead good for the individual. 

It’s still reducing infection 8-fold. The data is saying that those infected can still transmit with delta, but they’re still much less likely to be infected, and they can’t transmit if not infected. 
 

Eta: which isn’t to say this isn’t really depressing and discouraging to learn; it definitely is. But it isn’t as bad as some may read it to be (though I can’t help but get the feeling that there are some anti-vaxers feeling a bit gleeful about this. Which is sick.)

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The university where I work has announced likely protocols.  Vaccination is encouraged but not obligatory, large lectures are online, smaller classes are in larger-than-normal rooms but distancing is voluntary, and masks must be worn indoors.

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Protocols for fall have been changed to require masking in classes and group settings along with vaccination for all on campus (with very limited waivers) Parents will not have to show proof of vaccination to help your child move in, but will be required to mask. Testing at move in, followed by Pooled testing weekly for the first month, possibly continued after that. No off campus practicums, internships, or field experiences unless the setting requires vaccination.  Class sizes are already small, but classes will be held in larger rooms or outdoors if possible to allow greater distancing. One benefit of being on an old, Southern campus-lots of windows and shade trees! 

 

At this point, I am praying we can get L moved in without catching COVID. I feel like once the semester starts, the students will be about as safe as can be managed with in person classes, but I am imagining that there will be at least some cases due to move in simply because there will be so many extra people on campus and most will have had to travel to get there, through Southern states with low vaccination rates that are bright red. 

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At my kids' university:

  • Vaccination mandate for anyone entering campus for class or use of any facilities (not only those living in the dorms), with quite restricted waivers for medical reasons only as confirmed by physician.
  • International students who haven't been able to get vaccinated in their home countries were eligible to arrive early / get jabbed / live in designated dorm space with restricted movement until full immunity kicks in
  • Universal masking for everyone on all campus spaces except own dorm rooms
  • Large lectures online; ordinary classes in more-spaced-out spaces (they did this throughout last year as well, so they're used to it by now)
  • Mandatory pooled weekly testing for everyone on campus throughout Sept and Oct
  • All subject to change as conditions change

It occurs to me that as lots of universities implement mandatory surveillance testing, we'll start to get better testing & positivity data.  Throughout 2020, test data was getting steadily better in my area, as test availability steadily improved, employers began requiring weekly PCRs and schools stepped up contact and surveillance testing.  In my own circle, people regularly got tested before visiting elderly relatives, etc. But then it got quite wonky, with reports of people in some geographic pockets avoiding testing to avoid having to quarantine (sigh)... and the absolute number of daily tests that JHU was reporting fell from 2M+/day to less than 1M.  And now the daily test numbers are ALL OVER THE MAP, vacillating wildly from day to day:

(testing/ positivity graph is ~minute in)

But as more universities implement surveillance testing, the data will get substantially better.

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All 17 universities within the UNC system are going to operate under a requirement to "get vaccinated or get tested regularly" for students, faculty and staff. In their memorandum I don't see a definition of "regularly."  Chapel Hill announced a few days ago that they would be doing weekly testing of the unvaccinated, and some news reports are stating that all campuses will follow that policy of weekly testing.

 

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I changed my posting name so I could make my post a bit more anonymous but the college my dh works at announced yesterday their Covid "policies" for the coming year.  No masks, no vaccines required, no testing required and no social distancing.  My dh has heard through the grapevine that the powers-that-be estimate that  between 5 and 10% of the student body will be vaccinated.  This is a school that requires chapel attendance daily and it was announced that chapel will operate as normal all year which means all students gathered inside at the same time daily and sometimes more than once daily (at the beginning of the year there are two chapel services a day).  

I'm speechless at the lack of care they are showing the community, their staff and faculty and the families associated with students, staff and faculty.  We are vaccinated in my household except for my youngest who will be eligible early in September.  She has asked to get the vaccine on her birthday.

I'm praying/hoping that the local health department will step in or the state?  I can't see how this isn't going to be a disaster for the local health care providers, never mind the individuals involved.

The announcement was met with a lot of "Yay - faith not fear" responses on facebook.  😞

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Tenaj said:

I changed my posting name so I could make my post a bit more anonymous but the college my dh works at announced yesterday their Covid "policies" for the coming year.  No masks, no vaccines required, no testing required and no social distancing.  My dh has heard through the grapevine that the powers-that-be estimate that  between 5 and 10% of the student body will be vaccinated.  This is a school that requires chapel attendance daily and it was announced that chapel will operate as normal all year which means all students gathered inside at the same time daily and sometimes more than once daily (at the beginning of the year there are two chapel services a day).  

I'm speechless at the lack of care they are showing the community, their staff and faculty and the families associated with students, staff and faculty.  We are vaccinated in my household except for my youngest who will be eligible early in September.  She has asked to get the vaccine on her birthday.

I'm praying/hoping that the local health department will step in or the state?  I can't see how this isn't going to be a disaster for the local health care providers, never mind the individuals involved.

The announcement was met with a lot of "Yay - faith not fear" responses on facebook.  😞

 

 

I have a dear friend who teaches at a similar school, and they have the same policies-and are in a state where mask mandates have been banned. She went through the last year absolutely terrified because she has a medically vulnerable child, who was fortunately able to be vaccinated once it opened to 12+. It makes me so frustrated. It's not like it's easy to get a new job as a college professor. 

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