Jump to content

Menu

Are you on the autism spectrum...


Not_a_Number
 Share

Autism  

78 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you on the autism spectrum?

    • Yes, I'm officially diagnosed as autistic.
      3
    • Yes, I've self-diagnosed myself as autistic.
      7
    • No, but I'm adjacent to it (broad autism phenotype.)
      22
    • No, and I'm nowhere near it.
      46


Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Hannah said:

diagnosed yesterday.  I'm on a very steep learning curve and this does explain a lot.  

Good for you for getting it done! You're going to have a lot more steps. 

Definitely plug her in with https://www.kelly-mahler.com/what-is-interoception/  It's probably the single most valuable thing a person on the spectrum could do, to work on their interoception. https://www.kelly-mahler.com/live-online-courses/theory-of-own-mind/  Kelly is getting ready to do a new live online workshop on what she and another person are calling Theory of Own Mind. This is super good stuff, HIGHLY recommend. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

For interest- when I  mentioned this thread to Husband and chatted about INTJ and autism spectrum, he had this quiet smile, a kind of 'This could be interesting' look. For what it's worth.

Haha, so how did his numbers turn out? Or he's not INTJ? Fwiw, I always chuckle at the idea that ASD=introvert. It definitely does NOT. It's about ineffective social efforts, not whether they make social efforts. There are many extrovert people on the spectrum, people who are socially motivated, people who NEED to be with people to get their buzz and stay up. They're just going to be very spectrumy about the way they do it. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Some real aha moments there. 

Just a tip, but your next thing is to start watching the free social thinking webinars on that site or signing up for their paid ones. I've done almost every workshop they've had over the last few years and they've all been exceptional. Now to me, interoception is the piece that lets all that come together. Self awareness leads to other awareness. But yeah, lots of good stuff there. 

If you go through their website, you can filter books by suggested ages. Then you can see if your library system has any of the books. For the teen stuff, you're very likely to be able to get some things through the library.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Look, are you asking a question or being your own psych? I put this in my post I deleted, but you may not yet be asking the correct question. Maybe start by reading that social thinking article I linked you to and pondering *yourself*. I honestly don't know where you'd fall, but you might find your answers. Ask someone else who knows you well to read the article and say where you'd fall in those profiles.

I have done all this stuff in my teens and early 20s. It was all very revelatory to me and affected me deeply. Thinking of myself as spectrumy was a real adjustment.

At the end of the day, after years of contemplation, I decided I wasn’t ultimately diagnosable — my deficits weren’t sufficient for that. I didn’t come by that conviction lightly or without a ton of thought.

 

20 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

What was your score on the AQ? Did you already post it and I missed it? I think it's logical to say the AQ and the social thinking profiles will roughly correlate. I'm not sure anyone has bothered, just saying they probably do. Going through those increasing steps of social thinking challenges you're going to see more and more mind blindness. That's how you get those higher AQ scores, haha. 

 

It’s in the 20s. Low 20s if my husband fills it out for me, higher 20s if I fill it out as my teenage self.

 

20 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Why bother with these sideways terms like adjacent?

Because that’s ultimately what I am? It’s a continuum.

I am not in any way surprised people feel like diagnosing me on this thread, but it’s still amusing to me that people think they can tell much of anything online. I was very open that I think of myself as part of the broader phenotype, and that’s what I am 🙂 .

Edited by Not_a_Number
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, SanDiegoMom said:

I did score ... on the test.

So then just for trivia, do you think you fall anywhere in the social thinking profiles? https://www.socialthinking.com/Articles?name=social-thinking-social-communication-profile You don't have to answer that. It just seems logical to me that AQ scores and social thinking profiles will correlate. After all, the AQ is looking specifically at mind blindness, not DSM criteria.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

You were just like hey, hang out here your federally protected medical information because I want to know. That person clearly has deficits. :biggrin: 

Uhhhh. This forum shares tons of information that's more likely to get people in trouble than whether they vaguely consider themselves to be autistic/autism adjacent. I was actually wondering if anyone would get offended, but I assumed they wouldn't, given the number of posts about ASD kids. So that's been a relief. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

So then just for trivia, do you think you fall anywhere in the social thinking profiles? https://www.socialthinking.com/Articles?name=social-thinking-social-communication-profile You don't have to answer that. It just seems logical to me that AQ scores and social thinking profiles will correlate. After all, the AQ is looking specifically at mind blindness, not DSM criteria.

This is super looooong. Where do I look to check where I belong?? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

It’s in the 20s.

Oh that's interesting. That's WAY below the cutoff Cohen gives for ASD, yes? He was using 32 or something, right? And we've had multiple people here say they're in the 20s. So then, I'm just asking because I don't know the answer, do you feel like you fall into one of those social thinking communication profiles?

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I am not in any way surprised people feel like diagnosing me on this thread

I'm not sure who you're talking about, but I'm not. I suggested you read Bright Not Broken and sort it out yourself. I think it would be odd to say someone is on the spectrum if they don't have significant mind blindness and don't fall into a social communication profile that reflects deficits. Cohen's point (not DSM's because the DSM is idiotic) is that ASD logically involves clinically mind blindness. 

So what you're really saying is what is it when someone has *some* but it's not at this clinical level that gets them an ASD label? Does Cohen deal with that in the book? I don't know. It seems like a really good question and the question a bunch of people here who were scoring in the 20s also have. I will point out that a number of the people saying they scored in the 20s also have profoundly gifted IQs. I guess you could see what Cohen says in his book. 

Did you look at the resistant social communicator profile? That's the one where I don't know where they would fall on the AQ. I know adult males with it (who under DSM4 were NVLD) but don't know their AQ scores, and I don't know any adult females confirmed with that profile. 

So it's an interesting question what happens with the AQ=20 people. Don't know, hasn't been my problem, haha.

7 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

This is super looooong. Where do I look to check where I belong?? 

The article is divided into sections with descriptions of each profile. You'll quickly see the ones you don't fall into and can skip those. I'm not saying I know where you fall. I *think* a completely NT, socially typically profile was on there as well, so presumably you have that option. LOL I would think the ones you're trying to discriminate (for your own information) are WISC and RSC.  Isn't there also a WISC sibling? You could check that too.

I don't know you and am not saying anything except that those are profiles and a way to sort through the topic systematically, teasing apart subtle differences. I have no clue how they correlate to AQ but I think it's an interesting question. The AQ has a ceiling of 50, so I think ESC up will come close to hitting the ceiling. So with a score in the 20s, you're looking at anything below ESC or possibly sideways like RSC. I don't know where RSC would fall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Indigo Blue said:

I can understand that. It probably comes from lack of understanding and ignorance. I’m no expert, but the things I’ve noticed in my family are valid concerns.

I agree there's sort of a talking past each other. If someone is scoring in the 20s, their experience is as significant to them as someone scoring in the 40s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not a Number —

For everything you have said — fair enough 🙂

It is NOT that I think specifically about your daughter, and I think it is very true — 1) there is a big range for diagnosable and also different opinions, and 2) a lot of things, with a specific example, a specific example could go either way.

With the second example from your daughter — this sounds just like my sister when she was a child.  She was smart and she watched other kids and she knew what went on with them.  But she talked to adults about the other kids.  She was also — way more advanced than other kids at very young ages.

Here is how she was different from her older daughter (my niece).

When my niece was young, she also was known to notice more what was bothering other kids, *but she tried to comfort them herself,* and her first move wasn’t to tell a teacher.

She just very clearly identified with the other kids, and not the adults.  She *knew how to interact with the other kids.*
 

So this is obviously — not some clear-cut thing!  

And maybe not the only example you could give, but a chance one that happens to be vague!

But the social thing is about practice and not about knowledge. It is common and well-known for the knowledge to be there, and yet things break down anyways.  

But it is not the kind of thing where any one example is definitive!  That is part of what makes it hard to zero in on any one thing and think “there it is, proof.”  That applies to writing styles, too, lol 😉 
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, PeterPan said:

Oh that's interesting. That's WAY below the cutoff Cohen gives for ASD, yes? He was using 32 or something, right? And we've had multiple people here say they're in the 20s. So then, I'm just asking because I don't know the answer, do you feel like you fall into one of those social thinking communication profiles?

Yeah, it's below the cutoff. It was always below the cutoff, which was part of why I never did think I was quite diagnosable. But I thought pretty hard about it. 

 

3 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

The article is divided into sections with descriptions of each profile. You'll quickly see the ones you don't fall into and can skip those.

I wish there was a quiz 😂. I'll take a look. 

 

4 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

I think it would be odd to say someone is on the spectrum if they don't have significant mind blindness and don't fall into a social communication profile that reflects deficits.

I don't have any of the mind-blindness, no. That's the aspect I don't have. What I do have is the highly focused interests and a bit of sensory stuff (like, I really hate the feeling of suede, and I used to be terrified of popping balloons.) I also probably have less INTEREST and patience with people than is neurotypical. 

I had more social deficits as a little kid -- as I said, I was in the subgroup of people whose social thinking comes online around puberty. It's hard to disentangle how much of that was nature and nurture, since no one ever bothered with me, but it's definitely a fact. 

But anyway, I literally spent years trying to sort this out 😂. I'm pretty at peace with it either way. I like myself, basically, and it's been valuable knowing this about myself. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Lecka said:

She just very clearly identified with the other kids, and not the adults.  She *knew how to interact with the other kids.*

Yeah, DD4 very much identifies with the other kids, whereas DD8 is closer to the spectrum and identifies more with adults. It's not that DD4 identifies with the adults -- they'd come to her to ask, she wouldn't go to them. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

It’s just me trying to figure it all out and make sense of things. 

To me, the challenge is the DSM. As you say, people are who they are. The DSM *used* to be compiled ground up, where psychs saw things, submitted, and the tome was written. Now it's the other way, top down. Now that's a horrible horrible simplification about a topic I know exceptionally little about. I can't even remember the name of the book I read several years ago on it. However there is a book, and that's why I rant about the DSM so much, because it walks us into these issues where they both want to tease things apart (the goal of the DSM, no overlaps, everything diagnosed separately) AND are lumping together at the same time (lots of profiles, all called ASD). 

So then we get this yes/no approach to spectrum, which isn't helpful to anyone. Now a psych can call it GAD, ADHD with social delay, all kinds of things as they back off ASD and find another label. But the joke is, the interventions are the SAME no matter what they call it. The responsiveness changes and how much intervention and how detailed/extreme. But that's the whole point of the social thinking profiles, that the deficits overlap even as the DSM labels change. 

So that was how I resolved it for myself. People are what they are and the DSM is a fallible document trying to keep up. You only have problems when you try to pigeonhole people into the DSM and wonder why it doesn't work, lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, it's below the cutoff. It was always below the cutoff, which was part of why I never did think I was quite diagnosable. But I thought pretty hard about it. 

I have a brother who is that high IQ, a little quirky, so excellent at social, and he might score in that 20s thing, don't know. Just saying I can imagine if he were filling it out he would feel some of that. So I get what you're saying. It's sorta that no man's land.

8 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

DD8

Sorry, my brain is going in and out. Are you trying to figure out whether your dd is on the spectrum? I'm trying to think of sage advice here... :biggrin:  What would you change if she *were*? Go ahead and do those things. It does absolutely no harm to 

-work on self awareness

-work on emotional regulation

-build social thinking

-be intentional about developing conversation skills using high quality materials like https://www.aapcautismbooks.com/products/talk-with-me?_pos=10&_sid=a47947ab3&_ss=r

The label decides nothing. You simply do what she needs, have those conversations, make sure you're working on the skills, and let the label sort itself out with time. Given that she's (clearly) a higher IQ it may not become completely apparent for a while. It will be to people who hang a lot with ASD high IQ kids, but it will be easy to miss with some jack random psych who hands you a GARS.

The other thing you could do, if it would make a *difference* in how you work with her, is to get evals with a psych from Hoagies Gifted who has experience with female gifted spectrum. They can probably tease it apart.

The deficits and issues are what they are, irrespective of whether she eventually gets a label or not. So you work with what you're seeing, give her the tools, and let the label sort itself out with time. You aren't going to un-spectrum someone by doing social thinking intervention, haha. She'll know and probably by the time she's 12 she'll be able to do the AQ herself and tell you. And if she can't, well hello by then it will be obvious and you'll have gotten her eval'ed, lol. 

AAPC that I just linked has the best stuff for high IQ kids. Check it out. 

Edited by PeterPan
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, PeterPan said:

Sorry, my brain is going in and out. Are you trying to figure out whether your dd is on the spectrum? 

Nope. Since I've known that I'm spectrum-y since my late teens, I've always kept an eye on both my kids. I'm not even sure DD8 is part of the broader phenotype, although she's certainly closer than DD4, who's absolutely on the opposite end of the social thinking scale -- when I worry about DD4, what I worry about is her becoming a "mean girl" and excluding other kids due to her very sophisticated social thinking and ability to do so. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I used to be terrified of popping balloons

That's not sensory. That's a retained primitive reflex.

12 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I was in the subgroup of people whose social thinking comes online around puberty.

We expect EF delays with both ADHD and giftedness and social delays with ADHD are not uncommon. That's the walk up to ASD, lol. Only when you keep jacking those up and adding more parameters do you get to ASD.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, PeterPan said:

That's not sensory. That's a retained primitive reflex.

We expect EF delays with both ADHD and giftedness and social delays with ADHD are not uncommon. That's the walk up to ASD, lol. Only when you keep jacking those up and adding more parameters do you get to ASD.

Right, OK, so in that case I'm probably a gifted kid with ADHD if anything. I think we agree that I'm not on the spectrum but hover somewhere near it. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

ASD is not about being nice or not nice. Some ASD people are the NICEST PEOPLE you'll know. They're terribly loyal, well intentioned, overly generous, even socially motivated, funny. None of that is about being an unkind, ill intentioned, unthoughtful person except as a side effect of their social thinking deficits.

Then there's that whole thing where if you're too nice to people, you look like a jerk. Like resolving a problem quietly instead of gushing sympathy and leaving the person to suffer like you're meant to.*

*I seriously don't know how that is a rule, but I know it is one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Really? Being scared of loud noises is a primitive reflex? 

Linked to the mouth reflexes, I think.

Peter Pan will have better information, but this is my observation. When my boy's mouth reflexes were less severe, he was more tolerant of loud noises. When the reflexes ramped up again, so did his problem with the blender.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Really? Being scared of loud noises is a primitive reflex? 

Yes, google tests for retained reflexes. There's a startle reflex and several others that would apply. My dd was like that and it's a retained reflex, easily treatable. Retained reflexes also cause sensory issues.

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Right, OK, so in that case I'm probably a gifted kid with ADHD if anything. I think we agree that I'm not on the spectrum but hover somewhere near it. 

What's interesting to me is your social thinking. You often do this in a thread, wanting to come to some common ground. It reflects your social thinking and perspective taking, because you actually CARE what we think and want that resolution. It's just something I notice. And I think it goes with those scores, kwim? 

Contrast that with someone like me. Do I EVER care what you think? Do I EVER try to resolve problems here? Or do I just lob bombs, say what I want in the most b&w fashion, and walk away like the truth has been spoken and it's OVER? Hahaha. That shows my social thinking, lol.

So you said you can't tell when people are on the spectrum here on the boards just from text, but to me it's usually quite obvious. There's probably even a way to quantify it. There are studies on linguistic patterns in spectrum, etc. yes, I'm pretty sure I've read these. I had a chat with someone at OCALICON about it. 

  • Like 4
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

When the reflexes ramped up again, so did his problem with the blender.

You're describing sensory defensiveness, and yeah that's a challenge. We did have some of those mouth reflexes, yes. There's also a startle reflex, the moro, some postural ones, etc. There's one that they test by having the person fall backwards. 

These reflexes are supposed to integrate into the neurological system so the symptoms dissipate. I used to send people to Pyramid of Potential, but I'm not sure she's operating anymore. People often find the videos on youtube. 

https://www.brmtusa.com/what-are-reflexes  This site has basic info and a list. Then you can use the list to google for testing videos and exercises. We did our work finally successfully with a PT who was using the Pyramid of Potential stuff. There were a few I found myself by researching and added in. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

So you said you can't tell when people are on the spectrum here on the boards just from text, but to me it's usually quite obvious. There's probably even a way to quantify it. There are studies on linguistic patterns in spectrum, etc. yes, I'm pretty sure I've read these. I had a chat with someone at OCALICON about it. 

I actually think there's a kind of social profile that's autistic or autism-adjacent that is VERY interested in communication. They can't do it in real time, but text is easier. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

Haha, so how did his numbers turn out? Or he's not INTJ? Fwiw, I always chuckle at the idea that ASD=introvert. It definitely does NOT. It's about ineffective social efforts, not whether they make social efforts. There are many extrovert people on the spectrum, people who are socially motivated, people who NEED to be with people to get their buzz and stay up. They're just going to be very spectrumy about the way they do it. 

No, he was looking sideways as I talked about things in relation to me.  He's not likely to be on the autistic spectrum and is also not INTJ.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Rosie_0801 said:

And I have more. 

I think that's just personality.

And that not everything is clinical. And that high IQ driving you to sit around teaching math, haha. Maybe you'd appear more social if you were at a math camp or hanging with your actual peers?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, probably! I'm kind of a malcontent. 

I actually have a LOT of interest in communicating with people. But I find people frustrating. 

What kind of people? Have you met people who aren't frustrating?

I think frustration is normal if your IQ is 80 points higher than the person you're talking to, mercy. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I actually think there's a kind of social profile that's autistic or autism-adjacent that is VERY interested in communication. They can't do it in real time, but text is easier. 

I love me an 'edit' function...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Then there's that whole thing where if you're too nice to people, you look like a jerk. Like resolving a problem quietly instead of gushing sympathy and leaving the person to suffer like you're meant to.*

*I seriously don't know how that is a rule, but I know it is one.

I struggle with this a lot -- a friend has a problem, I dive really deep into it, write way too much about it, suddenly look very officious, and then I get nothing or very little back and I realize I did it again.  

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I actually think there's a kind of social profile that's autistic or autism-adjacent that is VERY interested in communication. They can't do it in real time, but text is easier. 

What you're describing could be low processing speed issues. If someone has an average processing speed and gifted IQ, there can be enough discrepancy that it's clinical. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

What kind of people? Have you met people who aren't frustrating?

I think frustration is normal if your IQ is 80 points higher than the person you're talking to, mercy. 

Eh, most people are at least a bit frustrating 😉 . My IQ isn't that high -- around 140 or so, assuming the proxies I've used to estimate are correct (I haven't taken an official IQ test.) 

I mostly find the fact that people aren't reflective and aren't that willing to face the world as it really is frustrating. But I also like a fair number of people, so not everyone is equally frustrating, at least 😉 . And I'm sure I'm frustrating myself! 

Anyway, I gotta go prep for my Zoom class, and I gotta go deal with DD8, whose attitude is just terrible today 😕 . 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I actually think there's a kind of social profile that's autistic or autism-adjacent that is VERY interested in communication. They can't do it in real time, but text is easier. 

Talking real time to someone who isn't a very close friend is stressful.  I have two very close mom friends and I can go for 3 hours non stop talking with them, no problem.  When they aren't as close it's a lot harder-- I get very fatigued and my thinking really starts to feel like it's sputtering.  It's worse if I am tired already or if there is background noise.  I have to concentrate very hard to keep up.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

What you're describing could be low processing speed issues. If someone has an average processing speed and gifted IQ, there can be enough discrepancy that it's clinical. 

 

That would make sense, as I see that play out with my son, who also has a huge gap between IQ and processing. And the sensory issues are the same for him. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom said:

I struggle with this a lot -- a friend has a problem, I dive really deep into it, write way too much about it, suddenly look very officious, and then I get nothing or very little back and I realize I did it again.  

It is convenient to have friends of the same neurotype.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

And that not everything is clinical. And that high IQ driving you to sit around teaching math, haha. Maybe you'd appear more social if you were at a math camp or hanging with your actual peers?

For the record, math camps are full of Aspies 😂. I've been to many, and ultimately, the social thinking deficits wind up frustrating me -- a room full of mathematicians is too quirky on average for me, even though DH is a mathematicians, too. 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom said:

Talking real time to someone who isn't a very close friend is stressful.  I have two very close mom friends and I can go for 3 hours non stop talking with them, no problem.  When they aren't as close it's a lot harder-- I get very fatigued and my thinking really starts to feel like it's sputtering.  It's worse if I am tired already or if there is background noise.  I have to concentrate very hard to keep up.  

You said your score was in the 30s, yes? So you're tipping it per Cohen's own measure. And he's the dude for mind blindness.

Have you looked at the social communication profiles to see where you'd fall? 

For fun, I'll tell you today I'm a 46, solidly ESC. I think when I did it a few years ago I was in the mid-40s also. And everyone here knows I'm pretty doggone oblivious. 

So you could look at it and see if your AQ score somehow makes sense with your social communication profile. There's just a range but I don't know how they line up. 

I wear ear plugs when I'm out and about, so the background noise is less of an issue. I don't know if I fatigue like that I home. I tend to go on and on and on... But it's interesting that it's your mix. I think, like y'all say, people just have their mixes. 

52 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom said:

my son

Has he done the AQ? Might be interesting for you to compare.

31 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

math camps are full of Aspies 😂

LOL So is the gym. I've been told competitive biking is heavy on spectrum too. And remember the swimmer Phelps guy? Not that he's out or diagnosed, but mercy. 

 I do know someone with a master's in math who is only introvert. Well at least I assume she's only introvert. It can happen. But you're right, she wasn't COMPETITIVE, lol.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that for me personally, I think that most adult women who are functioning in society just are not going to be considered diagnosable.  

So -- there it is, diagnosable.

I think it depends on who is diagnosing, and what that person's standard is, because some take into account functioning in society, and some seem to not care about that.  

I do not think of things as divided between "diagnosable" and "not diagnosable" for women because I don't think it is a really useful category for adult women.  

I mean -- obviously it is meaningful, I don't mean it's not meaningful at all.

But to me, I don't think it is so meaningful because it is not how I think of it.  

Not a Number -- for example -- if you went to a doctor and said you were a happy person doing well with your career and family, then I think a lot would not diagnose just based on that.  

I think I probably include a lot of people who could be considered "spectrum-adjacent" or "spectrummy" because I think, personally, I think it can be arbitrary whether a person is doing well and happy, and also has x spectrum traits, or is struggling, and also has x spectrum traits.  I think there can be the same x spectrum traits and the same degree of spectrum traits, but one person is doing well and the other isn't, in ways that would be looked at for diagnosing an adult, and that doesn't work for me, because I think there are many adult women, functioning well in life, who have got the spectrum traits.  

I think for adults "diagnosable" is more deficit focused.  

Again, depending on the person and their own philosophy.  

I think too, with the Internet, it is easy to read into one part of things, and then more information is provided -- and then things do not seem that way anymore.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I think that for me personally, I think that most adult women who are functioning in society just are not going to be considered diagnosable.  

So -- there it is, diagnosable.

I think it depends on who is diagnosing, and what that person's standard is, because some take into account functioning in society, and some seem to not care about that.  

I do not think of things as divided between "diagnosable" and "not diagnosable" for women because I don't think it is a really useful category for adult women.  

I mean -- obviously it is meaningful, I don't mean it's not meaningful at all.

But to me, I don't think it is so meaningful because it is not how I think of it.  

Not a Number -- for example -- if you went to a doctor and said you were a happy person doing well with your career and family, then I think a lot would not diagnose just based on that.  

I think I probably include a lot of people who could be considered "spectrum-adjacent" or "spectrummy" because I think, personally, I think it can be arbitrary whether a person is doing well and happy, and also has x spectrum traits, or is struggling, and also has x spectrum traits.  I think there can be the same x spectrum traits and the same degree of spectrum traits, but one person is doing well and the other isn't, in ways that would be looked at for diagnosing an adult, and that doesn't work for me, because I think there are many adult women, functioning well in life, who have got the spectrum traits.  

I think for adults "diagnosable" is more deficit focused.  

Again, depending on the person and their own philosophy.  

I think too, with the Internet, it is easy to read into one part of things, and then more information is provided -- and then things do not seem that way anymore.  

I feel the same way.....a psychiatrist told me and my son that there is a spectrum.  And we are all on it somewhere.  Some of us lean toward the anxious end and some toward the depression end.  He said ds was toward the anxious end, but until it begins to affect your day to day life and relationships it is really not something that needs to be diagnosed or dwelt on.  Basically we all have our quirks.  I think smart people often have more quirks than others.  

And I am sure this is a major oversimplification of it all and that I have highly offended someone here.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SanDiegoMom said:

I struggle with this a lot -- a friend has a problem, I dive really deep into it, write way too much about it, suddenly look very officious, and then I get nothing or very little back and I realize I did it again.  

THIS IS SO ME.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Really? Being scared of loud noises is a primitive reflex? 

Or several reflexes interacting--they are pretty enmeshed and sort of build on one another, so one person might have 2 or 3 problem reflexes and have certain symptoms, but the same 2 or 3 unintegrated reflexes might show different symptoms in someone else. But once reflexes are integrated, it's pretty clear that was the main problem. Sometimes you don't even realize how severe something is until it's fixed. When my older son's issues were fixed, it was life-changing. Kids with connective tissue disorders or hypermobility are less likely to fully integrate their reflexes no matter what you do. 

It sounds woo, but it's not. Some practitioners will go so far as to say that retained reflexes/sensory and anxiety are two sides of the same coin (though anxiety can have other causes too) or that retained reflexes "mature" into anxiety. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

until it begins to affect your day to day life and relationships it is really not something that needs to be diagnosed

This is what I have heard (though it is also based on personal philosophy).... but a lot of times a diagnosis is meant to bring services, or give a direction for therapy, or help to solve some problem that has led to the point of needing a diagnosis.  

To me -- I just do not define things based on if there is a need for services or not.  That is not my line.

And then -- that makes diagnosable or not, one piece of information, but it is not defining to me. 

And with that, there is a gray area, because the same situation could bother one person, but be fine with another person.  So one person could have a problem and benefit from therapy (or whatever), while the other person, could be perfectly content.  So I think that kind of thing can mean one person will get diagnosed and one person won't, but I don't think it means one person is necessarily "more autistic" than another person.  

Anyway -- I just think it is an arbitrary standard, and it's not what is meaningful for me.  For me it is more meaningful to look at traits and not add the standard of -- currently there are some problems going on rising to the level of a diagnosis.  

That is really why I think I would definitely have been diagnosed as a child if I were a child today, but as an adult?  I doubt it.  But if my life circumstances changed maybe I would struggle to the point of having major problems, or maybe if my life had worked out differently in some ways, I would have major problems.  I don't think it is a characteristic of me as much as how things have worked out -- and I think I have definitely had agency in how things have worked out, but I think there is also some luck involved, and not just -- oh, well, this means you are less autistic than someone else.  It does not make sense to me that way.  

But at the same time, I think I would not be diagnosable unless I became really depressed and then if I did become really depressed, I think that would have to do with social issues I have.  But as I am not depressed -- I don't think I would meet some "problem" criteria.  But I don't think it's impossible that this could change in the future, you know?  That is the kind of thing where, I think it is gray, because if I was depressed, some things right now would definitely be things that could be seen as autism-related.  But if I am not depressed, then those things don't exist?  

Anyway -- that is just not how "diagnosable" works -- or at least not a uniform standard applied everywhere in the country by every person.  

I think there are definitely people with a philosophy that is more open to diagnosing women who are not having problems -- and then I do think I would be diagnosed. 

But there is a lot in there that is just a matter of opinion.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

Not a Number -- for example -- if you went to a doctor and said you were a happy person doing well with your career and family, then I think a lot would not diagnose just based on that.

Yeah, I didn’t really mean that — I mean I don’t have the requisite number of traits as an adult to be even theoretically diagnosable. I agree that this is separate from whether one could find a doctor to diagnose one!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

LOL So is the gym. I've been told competitive biking is heavy on spectrum too. And remember the swimmer Phelps guy? Not that he's out or diagnosed, but mercy. 

 I do know someone with a master's in math who is only introvert. Well at least I assume she's only introvert. It can happen. But you're right, she wasn't COMPETITIVE, lol.

There are definitely non-spectrumy math people -- I'd say most people aren't actually on it, since you do need plenty of EF to make it to math camp or graduate school. But the average is definitely shifted up, and the vibe is very quirky. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I am wondering, if you're an adult woman pretty clearly on the autism spectrum, what is the benefit of getting officially diagnosed?

Then Q2 - say you're a middle aged woman clearly on the autism spectrum - is there any benefit to getting officially diagnosed?

How do adult women make positive use of an ASD diagnosis or self-diagnosis?

I mean, it kind of gives me comfort to know that I'm 95% of that list of women Asperger traits (like there's a good reason for me to be such an idiot), but what else does it do for me?

Edited by SKL
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

a psychiatrist told me and my son that there is a spectrum.  And we are all on it somewhere.  Some of us lean toward the anxious end and some toward the depression end.  He said ds was toward the anxious end, but until it begins to affect your day to day life and relationships it is really not something that needs to be diagnosed or dwelt on. 

That’s rediculous and shows how far psychiatry is behind reality. Those things are driven by genes and the DSM doesn’t give a rip. It says wait till you’re so bad we hand you a med. there is no Prozac deficiency but there certainly is for (list things like D, b6, 5HTP, etc. ) So their denial of symptoms till it gets major only tells the person to stop listening to their body and stop complaining, stop asking to feel better. Sub clinical does not = feels well and like where you’re at with it.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

That’s rediculous and shows how far psychiatry is behind reality. Those things are driven by genes and the DSM doesn’t give a rip. It says wait till you’re so bad we hand you a med. there is no Prozac deficiency but there certainly is for (list things like D, b6, 5HTP, etc. ) So their denial of symptoms till it gets major only tells the person to stop listening to their body and stop complaining, stop asking to feel better. Sub clinical does not = feels well and like where you’re at with it.

Not sure I agree with your assessment of it.  But I am not a psychiatrist.  And my son loved that man.  I wish he could have been his therapist.  Ds HATED the therapist. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Not sure I agree with your assessment of it.  But I am not a psychiatrist.  And my son loved that man.  I wish he could have been his therapist.  Ds HATED the therapist. 

That’s fine. I’m definitely controversial in my opinions, but I’ve also btdt. You can’t self advocate for your mental health completely without the interoception piece. And if someone feels it, why deny it? You can’t treat it because it’s subclinical and meds have consequences fine . But we could actually identify what wrong. 
 

Is my anxiety, insomnia, irritability, fatigue, whatever not legit if it’s not clinical to a psych, ie if I can mask? Our psychiatry knowledge is so incomplete .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, SKL said:

So I am wondering, if you're an adult woman pretty clearly on the autism spectrum, what is the benefit of getting officially diagnosed?

Then Q2 - say you're a middle aged woman clearly on the autism spectrum - is there any benefit to getting officially diagnosed?

How do adult women make positive use of an ASD diagnosis or self-diagnosis?

I mean, it kind of gives me comfort to know that I'm 95% of that list of women Asperger traits (like there's a good reason for me to be such an idiot), but what else does it do for me?

For me an official diagnosis had two main benefits.  First, personal validation. I knew I was autistic but I got a lot of pushback from people outside my immediate family.  (Apparently I pass for neurotypical, at least for people who don’t perceive how hard I’m paddling underwater to stay afloat!)  Second, I needed a diagnosis to push forward my daughter’s diagnosis.  She had been assessed at age 3 and did not get a diagnosis.  I knew this was wrong, but family members didn’t see her deficits and didn’t want to try again.   My diagnosis made them a bit more open minded.  She was diagnosed by the same person who diagnosed me at age 5, and is getting services.  Am I getting services?  Big old Nope.  

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...