HBO documentary suggests Q’s identity

[HeartString]

1 minute ago, Innisfree said:

Guys. I think it's good and important that Pen is willing to talk about things here. Let's not chase her off. Responding with facts and valid sources could be helpful.

There’s no way to prove a negative though.  We can’t prove that Biden hasn’t been replaced by a body double.   

[Wheres Toto]

1 hour ago, Cnew02 said:

I’m sorry, that shows a lack of basic understanding of how the internet works at a fundamental level. Literally anyone can buy a domain name and set up a redirect.  If the domain is available I can buy SantaClaus.com and redirect to Walmart’s home page and the hardest part would be getting up to find my wallet to type in the credit card info. Less than 15 min total time invested, less than $100.  I don’t have to live in America to do it either. So no, someone somewhere setting up antifa.com to redirect to the White House doesn’t feel nefarious to me at all.  The White House has no special legal ability to make the owner of that domain stop redirecting its traffic. Once purchased it’s private property, free speech, yatta yatta. 

ETA: this is incredibly common on the internet too.  My homeschool group has a redirect set up from one website to another.  Walmart and Amazon most likely own several common misspellings of their website names that redirect to the proper place. Very basic stuff. 

Was typing at the same time as Moonhawk.  

I talked about this in a paper when I took marketing a million years ago.  Victoria's Secret has both VictoriaSecret dot com and VictoriasSecret dot com. 

The linking is basically the level of illegality that linking a website on Facebook or here would be.  Meaning, not at all.  So not much the White House could do about it.  And if they tried, how many conspiracists would be all up in arms about the overreach of trying to control private access?

[HeartString]

1 minute ago, Wheres Toto said:

The linking is basically the level of illegality that linking a website on Facebook or here would be.  Meaning, not at all.  So not much the White House could do about it.  And if they tried, how many conspiracists would be all up in arms about the overreach of trying to control private access?

Exactly.  The White House misusing government resources to illegally seize private property wouldn’t look good...

[bibiche]

3 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

Guys. I think it's good and important that Pen is willing to talk about things here. Let's not chase her off. Responding with facts and valid sources could be helpful.

I disagree. I think the best approach would be to not respond. Whether it’s a troll or someone so far gone that they believe in this stuff, nothing anyone says is going to make a bit of a difference. Case in point: logical explanations in this thread met with escalating batsh*t crazy ideas. 

[Katy]

5 minutes ago, bibiche said:

I disagree. I think the best approach would be to not respond. Whether it’s a troll or someone so far gone that they believe in this stuff, nothing anyone says is going to make a bit of a difference. Case in point: logical explanations in this thread met with escalating batsh*t crazy ideas. 

We can’t just ignore it or she might suck someone else into the crazy too.  We can possibly ask that these sorts of discussions be banned, but I don’t want to chase off someone I used to really value just because she’s apparently let either her rational mind or her account be taken over. Also I don’t want to confuse conspiracy crazy with the politics ban. 

[bibiche]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

We can’t just ignore it or she might suck someone else into the crazy too.  We can possibly ask that these sorts of discussions be banned, but I don’t want to chase off someone I used to really value just because she’s apparently let either her rational mind or her account be taken over. Also I don’t want to confuse conspiracy crazy with the politics ban. 

Yes, that’s logical. But I hope people don’t get too emotionally invested in trying to save Pen. 

[Katy]

4 minutes ago, bibiche said:

Yes, that’s logical. But I hope people don’t get too emotionally invested in trying to save Pen. 

The Pen we used to know is clearly no longer there. She’s either let a troll take over her account or she’s let herself be brainwashed by a cult. 

[Moonhawk]

Okay, so by now we have established facts:

1. Antifa.com pointing to Whitehouse.gov is easy to do. It won't be changed because it was an intentional change by the owner of antifa.com, unless the owner changes their mind. It is not illegal and can be done without the WH's permission. It is not a conspiracy: at best it's a bad joke, at worst it is manufactured specifically to be false proof. 

2. Security and light being turned on are regularly done on schedules by many businesses and government buildings. 

3. @Pen does not know what Tom Hanks looks like.

4. Biden is old and has not aged as gracefully as Pen thinks he should have.*

             4a. I also look a lot different than I did 10 or 20 years ago. 

*He did age, in my opinion, much much better and recognizably than my dad (3 years younger than him) and any of my grandparents. I can affirm that no bodysnatching of my father has occurred, though some days recently I really wish that was the explanation. But that's besides the point.

"To engage or not to engage, that is the question." I'm going to hope that Pen acknowledges at least #1 of my list as true. If that can happen, I'll continue to engage as I am able, but if we cannot establish a very easily-proven issue, I think the best I can offer is prayer. Which I'll do regardless. 

 

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

I am wondering why months go by and it is not fixed 

 

The only person or entity that can fix it is the one who owns the antifa.com domain. If SWB decided to redirect TWTM forum domain to another site she could do that. And only she could "fix" it.

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Pawz4me

[Corraleno]

2 hours ago, Moonhawk said:

And yes I would expect there to be a routine to WH security and like many large places of business, lights to go on timers (we even have one in my 1000sqft house on the bad side of town) or that turn on when people walk in with their regular routine. Is it weird your coffee shop's doors unlock precisely at 7am every morning, or that the same worker is there Monday through Friday? And this is ASSUMING that these claims are even true in the first place.

Pen's claim that the lights in the White House are on timers is a rumor spread by Q-nuts to "prove" that Biden isn't actually in the White House, because he's not legitimately the President.

Just like whenever he gives a speech, the Q-nuts flood social media with claims that the background is "obviously" a green screen, further proving that Biden is not at the White House. Other parts of the "theory" include the belief that Trump still controls the military, and they're just waiting for the right moment to take back the White House and reinstall the rightful president.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Corraleno

[HeartString]

As for why someone would set up a redirect..QAnon can be lucrative.   Donations, ad dollars, merch sales. People are cashing in.  
 

...AppAnon, the online name of qmap’s creator, also runs a Patreon account, which receives more than $3,000 a month in donations, according to the Patreon site. In March, QAppAnon announced on Patreon an upcoming Android app named “Armor of God,” a social network for followers of QAnon.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-11/qanon-website-shuts-down-after-n-j-man-identified-as-operator

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Cnew02

[Tanaqui]

Re: Timers -

Thinking logically, it's not that difficult to set up a randomizer element so the lights go on and off at times that look organic and natural instead of "on a timer". Which I'd think anybody dedicated to maintaining an illusion would do.

This is basic conspiracy theory reasoning. The powers that be are so strong and powerful that nobody can take them on, and so clever - but so very stupid that any idiot with a webpage can figure out their secrets and shadowy motives!

[Wheres Toto]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

Pen's claim that the lights in the White House are on timers is a rumor spread by Q-nuts to "prove" that Biden isn't actually in the White House, because he's not legitimately the President.

Just like whenever he gives a speech, the Q-nuts flood social media with claims that the background is "obviously" a green screen, further proving that Biden is not at the White House. Other parts of the "theory" include the belief that Trump still controls the military, and they're just waiting for the right moment to take back the White House and reinstall the rightful president.

If Biden is actually not in the White House, why does Trump need to "take it back", isn't he already there?  Who is there if Biden isn't and Trump isn't? 

And if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, does it matter if it's not actually in the duck pond?  (if Biden is acting as the President and making speeches as the President, would it matter if he wasn't actually physically IN the White House?)

[Corraleno]

2 minutes ago, Wheres Toto said:

If Biden is actually not in the White House, why does Trump need to "take it back", isn't he already there?  Who is there if Biden isn't and Trump isn't? 

And if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, does it matter if it's not actually in the duck pond?  (if Biden is acting as the President and making speeches as the President, would it matter if he wasn't actually physically IN the White House?)

There are all kinds of crazy, and often contradictory, explanations for this stuff. The real Biden is sick or dead or mentally incompetent, so they have to use a body double. The real Biden has been kidnapped and executed already, and the Biden we see on TV is an imposter who is working with Trump and Q. The inauguration was illegitimate and the military wouldn't allow Biden to actually move into the White House, so the Deep State use fake sets, CGI, and green screens.

As for why Trump hasn't taken back the White House yet... he is waiting for the perfect moment to unleash The Storm, which involves worldwide arrests and executions of all leftist cannibal-pedophiles. Taking over the world involves some planning, you know? You gotta get all your ducks in a row if you're going to simultaneously arrest and execute thousands of people all over the world. You gotta time it just right.

Every time another of "Q"'s predictions turns out to be false, the response is always to just wait a little longer... trust the plan... the plan is still working... The Storm is imminent... just be patient....  It's like all those guys who predict the end of the world, and then the date comes and goes and nothing happens, so they "recalculate" and set a new date, and then that comes and goes, on and on as long as people are stupid enough to keep believing.

[Corraleno]

6 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I know someone IRL who was at the White House yesterday. He saw President Biden and VP Harris. He posted a picture of Biden giving a speech in the Rose Garden on Facebook. 

Pen, is that good enough for you? 

Or is my friend in on some vast conspiracy? 

But that was the fake Biden! If he was smart, like the Q-nuts, he would have known to look at Biden's ears and recognize that this was an imposter. 

[Tanaqui]

Worth noting: While it's easy to assume that people who ascribe to the absolutely batshoot conspiracy theories must be either crazy, stupid, or both - the truth is that there's not as strong a correlation as you think.

Literally anybody can get sucked into conspiracy theories, just like literally anybody can get sucked into a cult or an abusive relationship. It makes us feel good to say "Wow, there is something wrong with that brain!" but neither sanity nor raw intelligence is a firm protection.

[HeartString]

38 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Worth noting: While it's easy to assume that people who ascribe to the absolutely batshoot conspiracy theories must be either crazy, stupid, or both - the truth is that there's not as strong a correlation as you think.

Literally anybody can get sucked into conspiracy theories, just like literally anybody can get sucked into a cult or an abusive relationship. It makes us feel good to say "Wow, there is something wrong with that brain!" but neither sanity nor raw intelligence is a firm protection.

You’re absolutely right.  I’ve seen a lot of things that say that more intelligent people are MORE likely to fall into Q stuff.  Finding “patterns” and drawing connections *feels* like critical thinking, feels like a high level intellectual activity.   It feels like being Sherlock Holmes, noticing the dog that didn’t bark and figuring it all out.  
The only problem is that it’s not real.  
 

I found these to be good reads over the past couple of months...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2019/apr/01/why-smart-people-are-more-likely-to-believe-fake-news
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestreet.com/phildavis/.amp/news/a-game-designers-analysis-of-qanon

 

[Katy]

23 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

Does the Qanon have information on how Nancy Pelosi looks this good at 81 other than a body double or lizard people ? Asking for a friend.

Unicorn blood, angel tears, an aging picture like Dorian Gray ?

If my friend I live up to 80 I want to look as fierce as her. I can't pay someone to be my body double even now so I may seriously consider becoming one of the lizard people at age 79. 

I’m not part of Q anon, but I think years ago I read she & Diane Sawyer used the same plastic surgeon. I can’t remember his name but he was a handsome black guy in Washington that specialized in tiny, subtle, but frequent surgeries. 

[Pen]

7 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I know someone IRL who was at the White House yesterday. He saw President Biden and VP Harris. He posted a picture of Biden giving a speech in the Rose Garden on Facebook. 

Pen, is that good enough for you? 

Or is my friend in on some vast conspiracy? 

could you send me a pm with how I can directly reach your friend in real life?

 

 

[Pen]

8 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I know someone IRL who was at the White House yesterday. He saw President Biden and VP Harris. He posted a picture of Biden giving a speech in the Rose Garden on Facebook. 

Pen, is that good enough for you? 

Or is my friend in on some vast conspiracy? 

To add to my request for direct contact information:

 I am sure people I know personally in real life have more influence on me than do internet only contacts like you. As I am sure is true also in reverse, that you are more persuaded by people you know in real life. And as it gets remote like the supposed real life friend of an internet only contact it gets less and less persuasive.

 

But yes, I think If I were to speak on the phone directly with your friend along with some online exploration jointly at same time, that could go a long ways towards persuasiveness. 
 

Certainly someone who can personally establish for me seeing Biden inside WH, and being present at Rose Garden Ceremony at the WH in DC with Biden there in 2021 would go a long way as a counterbalance to webcam type footage. 
 

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Pen

[Tanaqui]

You walked right into that by bringing up your friend, you know. To be fair to Pen, that'd be my response if somebody said "I personally know somebody who will fess up to being part of this vast conspiracy".

[Tanaqui]

Well, consider me asking now. Fair's fair, Pen - I'm surely willing to speak to anybody over the phone.

(This is a lie. I don't even like ordering pizza over the phone. But for this, I'll make an exception.)

[Eos]

4 hours ago, Pen said:

But yes, I think If I were to speak on the phone directly with your friend along with some online exploration jointly at same time, that could go a long ways towards persuasiveness. 
 

This feels so so sad to me.  Apply some critical thinking here, as I say to my kids.  "Online exploration" will only lead you right back down your accursed rabbit hole.  @Ordinary Shoes is telling you a fact.  She has no reason to lie.  She is offering you a hand to climb out.  Don't look back.

[Pawz4me]

5 hours ago, Pen said:

 I am sure people I know personally in real life have more influence on me than do internet only contacts like you. As I am sure is true also in reverse, that you are more persuaded by people you know in real life.

Okay, I'll 'fess up. Some people here have WAY more influence on me than people I know in real life. In terms of critical thinking skills I'd guess a large minority of members here are light years ahead of most people I know in real life. And some have knowledge of specific areas that far surpass anyone I know in real life. Of course I have paid professionals (doctors, financial adviser, etc.) whose advice I'd take before anyone here because they know the specifics of my situation. But for most other things the collective knowledge and wisdom here can't be topped. Plus I've been here since (I think) 2012. So I actually do feel like I "know" many people.

[AngelaR]

19 hours ago, Pen said:

 

Media covers supposed events at WH — and yet on the Live Webcams almost always all there ever seems to be is just one guard walking back and forth, back and forth, in front of the front door- and lights that seem to go on and off via what seems to be auto timers based on their regularity. 

Which live webcams are these?  How does one watch them?

[Katy]

59 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Okay, I'll 'fess up. Some people here have WAY more influence on me than people I know in real life. In terms of critical thinking skills I'd guess a large minority of members here are light years ahead of most people I know in real life. And some have knowledge of specific areas that far surpass anyone I know in real life. Of course I have paid professionals (doctors, financial adviser, etc.) whose advice I'd take before anyone here because they know the specifics of my situation. But for most other things the collective knowledge and wisdom here can't be topped. Plus I've been here since (I think) 2012. So I actually do feel like I "know" many people.

I don’t know about way more influence, but I for one am grateful that I listened to the hive about Covid in January 2020. Even DH still asks what the hive thinks about some news headline and he analyzes numbers for part of his job. 

[TexasProud]

5 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

You walked right into that by bringing up your friend, you know. To be fair to Pen, that'd be my response if somebody said "I personally know somebody who will fess up to being part of this vast conspiracy".

I agree. I wish you had  not brought up your friend if you are not willing to provide proof. Sigh.

[Katy]

6 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

I agree. I wish you had  not brought up your friend if you are not willing to provide proof. Sigh.

I disagree. There will never be enough proof for something so ridiculous, and I wouldn’t subject a friend or former coworker to interrogation by a conspiracy theorist either.  I interned for a Senator in college, I can think of several people who have been at the White House since the inauguration, but it isn’t my job to track down proof or ruin relationships on behalf of someone who is acting completely nutty and who I’ve never met in real life. 

Sooner or later Pen will take the time to look up all the drops, realize none of them have been true, and that a very young guy in the Philippines/Japan with no intelligence connections whatsoever started this as a joke, and people took it so seriously it was exploited as an additional method to manipulate voters, specifically women who were otherwise NOT inclined to vote for their particular candidate. Throw in some fantastic claims about saving the world’s children from an evil (and disturbingly racist) conspiracy and all of the sudden some women fall for it.  But when the same political movement staged an insurrection and the the power of the American government is about to come down on him, “Q” disappeared. The only thing that’s left is the people with a cash cow who want to continue to make money with these lies. 

The storm isn’t coming. It was ALL a lie. A disturbing number of people became believers, but that doesn’t make the lie true.

[TexasProud]

Just now, Katy said:

I disagree. There will never be enough proof for something so ridiculous, and I wouldn’t subject a friend or former coworker to interrogation by a conspiracy theorist either.  I interned for a Senator in college, I can think of several people who have been at the White House since the inauguration, but it isn’t my job to track down proof or ruin relationships on behalf of someone who is acting completely nutty and who I’ve never met in real life. 

Sooner or later Pen will take the time to look up all the drops, realize none of them have been true, and that a very young guy in the Philippines/Japan with no intelligence connections whatsoever started this as a joke, and people took it so seriously it was exploited as an additional method to manipulate voters, specifically women who were otherwise NOT inclined to vote for their particular candidate. Throw in some fantastic claims about saving the world’s children from an evil (and disturbingly racist) conspiracy and all of the sudden some women fall for it.  But when the same political movement staged an insurrection and the the power of the American government is about to come down on him, “Q” disappeared. The only thing that’s left is the people with a cash cow who want to continue to make money with these lies. 

The storm isn’t coming. It was ALL a lie. A disturbing number of people became believers, but that doesn’t make the lie true.

No it doesn't. I believe Biden is in the white house ( I voted for him, but had no other choice.), but now that she will not provide proof....  well, it plants a seed of doubt I didn't have.  It would be better not to offer, if not willing to say. 

[Katy]

18 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

No it doesn't. I believe Biden is in the white house ( I voted for him, but had no other choice.), but now that she will not provide proof....  well, it plants a seed of doubt I didn't have.  It would be better not to offer, if not willing to say. 

If you believe the President has been taken over by a body double or hologram, speaking to someone who was there in person isn’t going to change your mind, you’ll just go with the body double theory instead of the hologram theory.

There is no end to the ways these completely absurd lies can be twisted. If someone is so illogical they believe the lies, talking to someone who knows the President isn’t going to change their opinion. They’ll just decide my friend is part of the deep state, and by extension I am too. 

[Katy]

23 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

No it doesn't. I believe Biden is in the white house ( I voted for him, but had no other choice.), but now that she will not provide proof....  well, it plants a seed of doubt I didn't have.  It would be better not to offer, if not willing to say. 

Also, she didn’t offer proof. She was responding to Pen’s statement that someone she knows in real life said Q is real. It wasn’t an offer. It was a statement that she knows someone who’s been there. 

[TexasProud]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

Also, she didn’t offer proof. She was responding to Pen’s statement that someone she knows in real life said Q is real. It wasn’t an offer. It was a statement that she knows someone who’s been there. 

But if you cannot back it up, then don't say it.  Now I am doubting.... UGGG>.   Just so stressed out right now... Who do I believe and why???  Everything gray.  Nothing black and white. 

[Katy]

Just now, TexasProud said:

But if you cannot back it up, then don't say it.  Now I am doubting.... UGGG>.   Just so stressed out right now... Who do I believe and why???  Everything gray.  Nothing black and white. 

Then step away from the internet. If I told you all of Christianity is a lie, but Norse mythology is real, current religions are just a deep state method of hiding the truth, would you believe me?

Why would you believe any ridiculous claim made on the internet?

It’s like an entire generation skipped the tall tales unit in 3rd grade. Fantastic stories are not true. 

[catz]

The point is the Q positive poster here is dropping conspiracy theories all the time when there is absolutely no proof.   Where is the proof all of media right and left wing are in on this?  Humans are like herding cats.   If there is scandal it will be leaked and picked up.  It doesn’t make sense at all.  

[HeartString]

32 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

But if you cannot back it up, then don't say it.  Now I am doubting.... UGGG>.   Just so stressed out right now... Who do I believe and why???  Everything gray.  Nothing black and white. 

Pen is using classic Q anon tactics and you are falling hook line and sinker for them.  "I'm just saying its weird, not that its true"  "I've just noticed..."  "IT only occured to me, do your own research"

Here she is using Occam's Broom.  She's dropping little hints to things that sound right "Biden looks different, maybe he's not really IN the White House", which sounds plausible, possibly.  But she is using Occam's Broom to "sweep" away inconvenient facts. 

If Biden isn't really president, who signed the COVID relief bill...that money in my bank account was real.  Republicans weren't happy with that bill, would "secretly really still the president Trump" have signed that?

Mitch McConnell address President Biden, Mitch McConnell is not fan of democrats, why would he go along with it all?  Is he a body double too?

Republican Senators sat down with Biden in the White House with a $600 billion counter offer to the $2 trillion Covid bill.  Did they ALL lie about it, to protect a Democrat?   Or are the republican senators all body doubles too?

All of the dates that Q said Trump would come back into office have come and gone with nary an incident. 

International leaders sat down this week to discuss getting back into the Iran Nuclear Deal.  Would "secretly really president Trump" agree to that?

Holograms/body double are hard to pull off.  Sure, CGI is pretty good, but you can always tell right?  Even BIG budget movies look a little cartoony around the CGI.  Don't forget, its not just Biden, Harris, Nancy Pelosi, Clinton, Literally every single top democrat in congress has been posited to have been replaced with a body double or hologram, how would that be pulled off?  

And why....there is a group working WITH Q who is powerful enough to kidnap high level government officials, execute them in secret and replace them with TOP NOTCH body doubles, so good that family, friends, neighbors, and aids don't notice.  That takes not just plastic surgery but a mind transplant. They have to know all the family stories, all the office jokes.  And *that's* the group that Q is working *with*, not the powerful baby eating cabal they are trying to bring down.  Except..if they've replaced everyone with body doubles haven't they already brought down that cabal?  So why are they still fighting against the people that are now their own body doubles.

This exactly what I said in an earlier post, it feels like critical thinking.  You're just thinking critically right?  Looking at an idea you read on the internet, no harm done, right?  

https://www.businessinsider.com/occams-broom-2013-9

“The practice is particularly insidious when used by propagandists who direct their efforts at the lay public, because like Sherlock Holmes’s famous clue about the dog that didn’t bark in the night, the absence of a fact that has been swept off the scene by Occam’s Broom is unnoticeable except by experts…

[TexasProud]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

Then step away from the internet. If I told you all of Christianity is a lie, but Norse mythology is real, current religions are just a deep state method of hiding the truth, would you believe me?

Why would you believe any ridiculous claim made on the internet?

It’s like an entire generation skipped the tall tales unit in 3rd grade. Fantastic stories are not true. 

But I believed all of you and am in line for a shot because it

[catz]

Just now, TexasProud said:

But I believed all of you and am in line for a shot because it

But it is not just us.  It is the data and recommendations of thousands of scientists and medical professionals.  
 

Good luck!  I am hearing lots of minor no big deal stuff on side affects from my local people, I think people tend to share more if they have more.  ❤️🥳🥰   Happy vaccination day!   

[Innisfree]

6 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

But I believed all of you and am in line for a shot because it

You need to use your own good judgement and discernment. If you don't feel confident that you can do that, then I agree with your husband. You need to step away from the internet.

Editing to add that I'm trying to say this in kindness, not to be harsh. But we've seen this scenario over and over. This site can certainly provide good information, as with the Covid situation. We all are still responsible for using our own judgement. You have a tendency to become anxious and overwrought here. Your judgement doesn't seem to be functioning well. You need to step back. Go do gardening errands after your shot, or rest and read a book. Stop perseverating on things here. I hope you feel better soon.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Innisfree

[Innisfree]

3 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Okay, I'll 'fess up. Some people here have WAY more influence on me than people I know in real life. In terms of critical thinking skills I'd guess a large minority of members here are light years ahead of most people I know in real life. And some have knowledge of specific areas that far surpass anyone I know in real life. Of course I have paid professionals (doctors, financial adviser, etc.) whose advice I'd take before anyone here because they know the specifics of my situation. But for most other things the collective knowledge and wisdom here can't be topped. Plus I've been here since (I think) 2012. So I actually do feel like I "know" many people.

This is true for me too, to a degree. But I'm picky about who I listen to, and to what degree. There are a few posters who are so consistently worth listening to that I'll read a thread which hadn't previously interested me, just because they've commented. I feel lucky to have a community they're part of. Others seem like friends I'd be glad to know in person.

@Pen used to show sound judgement, in general, I think. I'm pretty sure she's genuinely concerned about helping others. I don't think she's a troll, because I think-- assuming the same person is still posting as Pen-- she has a moral compass.

I do think that she values listening to all sides, and being an independent judge, very highly. In the present moment, I think that's brought her to a bad place. Some sources do have more legitimate worth than others. Any valid complaints about "mainstream media" to the side, major newspapers do in fact try to get things right, and make corrections when they don't.  If a fraction of the stories which are thrown about were true, the papers would be all over them. 

If anyone wants firsthand accounts that Biden is really Biden, all they have to do is watch a press conference or speech. The reporters there have been covering the man for years. They know him. Or, you can believe your own eyes.

Yesterday I spoke up to discourage driving Pen away. I still think maybe we are a site where she can be exposed to less fevered perspectives, just by reading along and staying in touch with a group of rational people. But I'm disturbed that apparently this discussion can "infect" others who are susceptible. Not sure where that leaves us.

[Katy]

8 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

If anyone wants firsthand accounts that Biden is really Biden, all they have to do is watch a press conference or speech. The reporters there have been covering the man for years. They know him. Or, you can believe your own eyes.

Yesterday I spoke up to discourage driving Pen away. I still think maybe we are a site where she can be exposed to less fevered perspectives, just by reading along and staying in touch with a group of rational people. But I'm disturbed that apparently this discussion can "infect" others who are susceptible. Not sure where that leaves us.

I do think Biden has changed a little. I think his son’s death made him a bit more gentle. He has toned down the biting snark significantly, even when surrounded by Democrats. But it’s still him. Same guy as always. I met him in person a few times 20 years ago.  He’s the same guy.

I’m also worried about infecting others.  I imagine sooner or later this site will do what others have done and ban people promoting these theories. 

[WildflowerMom]

4 minutes ago, Katy said:

I do think Biden has changed a little. I think his son’s death made him a bit more gentle. He has toned down the biting snark significantly, even when surrounded by Democrats. But it’s still him. Same guy as always. I met him in person a few times 20 years ago.  He’s the same guy.

I’m also worried about infecting others.  I imagine sooner or later this site will do what others have done and ban people promoting these theories. 

Honestly, I thought (hoped, expected, etc) she’d be gone after posting the pics of injured babies.  Who tf does that on a message board labeled ‘chat’?    Either someone truly unhinged (and probably beyond help that some internet strangers can give them) or someone trolling.      Either option means this behavior gets worse and we get sucked into it.     I’m a huge proponent of getting mental health care when you need it.  They need it.   
 

[Spryte]

A poster here mentions that a friend was at the White House and posted pics on Facebook, and that opens her up to demands that she give up her friend’s personal phone number? To someone that multiple posters here have posited may even be mentally ill?  (I did not say that our Q poster is mentally ill, but recall reading others wonder if that might be the case.) 

Holy cannoli.  No.  Just no.  Good friends do not pass out other friend’s personal phone numbers, not like that, not without permission!  That is not a reasonable ask.  If my friends willy nilly passed out my direct phone number to Q believers they only knew through an internet forum, I would be horrified.  And fearful that my phone number would then be passed around Q circles.  If the friend of the poster agreed ahead of time, and had an interest in speaking to our Q poster here, that would be different.  

I have known people who go to the White House regularly, who aren’t part of a particular administration.  I have posted before about them winning the lottery for White House Easter Egg Rolls and taking my kids.  (One of my kids jumped up and down and nearly passed out seeing Michelle Obama in person, ha! I posted about that here, years ago, but that years old post is all the proof I am offering here, though some of you may have seen pics at the time.)  I’m sure as heck not passing out any of their phone numbers or names.

I won’t pass out anyone’s number without permission, even if they agreed. I would not trust a random Q believer to not post that phone number online someplace where it could be found and abused.  Maybe not right away but if she manages to convince herself that it was part of the “deep state” and not a real person, she might feel there is no harm in doing so.  My IRL friend would then be in a pickle, and we have seen over and over that some Q believers are violent.  I’d also wonder, if that happened - would it potentially impact my friend’s clearance and then the ability to feed a family (no idea, but having their number splashed all over the internet couldn’t help).

That doesn’t make me part of a conspiracy, it makes me a friend looking out for people I know and care for.

 

 

[Pam in CT]

re the climb out from the darkness

5 hours ago, Harpymom said:

This feels so so sad to me.  Apply some critical thinking here, as I say to my kids.  "Online exploration" will only lead you right back down your accursed rabbit hole.  @Ordinary Shoes is telling you a fact.  She has no reason to lie.  She is offering you a hand to climb out.  Don't look back.

Sadly, that isn't how the story goes.  Eurydice, Lot's wife -- the compulsion to look back is overwhelming.

As a kid, I used to spin out alternate endings.  It does happen: JK Rawling wrote one, in Percy.  Just keep on extending the hand.

 

 

re manifold shades of gray

2 hours ago, TexasProud said:

But if you cannot back it up, then don't say it.  Now I am doubting.... UGGG>.   Just so stressed out right now... Who do I believe and why???  Everything gray.  Nothing black and white. 

Yes, well, that is reality.  In simple stories, all the Good is clumped on one side and all the Evil is heaped Over There; the heroes are perfect and the villains wholly depraved.  In real life (and in real literature) people are nuanced, conflicts have multiple true tellings, there are no perfect simple solutions to complex problems. That really is how it is.

 

 

re how we arrived at our current juncture

2 hours ago, Katy said:

Then step away from the internet. If I told you all of Christianity is a lie, but Norse mythology is real, current religions are just a deep state method of hiding the truth, would you believe me?

Why would you believe any ridiculous claim made on the internet?

It’s like an entire generation skipped the tall tales unit in 3rd grade. Fantastic stories are not true. 

This is the best working explanation I've yet seen.  ** chef's kiss **

[Tanaqui]

TexasProud, if you're so eager to believe things, that's on you.

 

[Moonhawk]

So, unfortunately, no acknowledgement of my #1 fact about web redirects happened, despite Pen coming back to the thread. I'm not going to engage there anymore. Thankfully for my procrastination skills, other people have jumped in! 😉 

Adding onto what others have said re: asking for the contact info and the inappropriateness, and Occam's Broom:

This is deflecting proof that doesn't jive with the brain's current narrative: "I don't have to take this seriously because I'm not talking to the actual person." But of course, even if they spoke to the person, that would turn into, "I don't have to take this seriously because I didn't see it with my own eyes." It's nothing more than a deflection, delay tactic, and eventually a flat-out disregard tactic. 

Saying, "It would go a long way towards persuasiveness," is a direct sign, that it wouldn't go ALL the way, and it wouldn't even be going towards CHANGING anything, just PERSUADING that MAYBE this claim that Biden is in the WH is POSSIBLE. When you can't even bring yourself to say, "It would change my mind completely", that's a sign that it's a willful (if unconscious) choice to not believe, before the proof is even given.

This isn't about conspiracy theories or "just a thought that occurred to me" or anything so light and flippant. The false reality has become complete reality to them. It's like being in a house of mirrors and thinking you are seeing the whole universe, forgetting that there was a door you walked into the house and that the house was just a construct you chose to go into.

---

@TexasProud I hope (and I'm sure) your vaxx appt has gone well, it's probably done and you're on with your day by now since I'm later to the thread. I think anxiety in one area can often spill over and color our perception of other areas, I hope you're feeling better soon and that things look a bit more clear once you have more space from your appt. 

[Tanaqui]

Quote

This is deflecting proof that doesn't jive with the brain's current narrative: "I don't have to take this seriously because I'm not talking to the actual person." But of course, even if they spoke to the person, that would turn into, "I don't have to take this seriously because I didn't see it with my own eyes." It's nothing more than a deflection, delay tactic, and eventually a flat-out disregard tactic. 

 

You're not wrong, which is really why "I know somebody who...." is a bad idea. It never goes anywhere good. The best result is that it doesn't go anywhere at all.

We've all heard "you can't reason somebody out of a position they weren't reasoned into in the first place", and while that might not literally be true in every situation, it's close enough. People don't start obsessing over conspiracy theories because they've thought about the logic, no matter how much they think they have. They do it because those things answer some sort of emotional need. They're not going to give it up just because you have a mountain of irrefutable evidence.

[Garga]

3 hours ago, TexasProud said:

But if you cannot back it up, then don't say it.  Now I am doubting.... UGGG>.   Just so stressed out right now... Who do I believe and why???  Everything gray.  Nothing black and white. 

 

2 hours ago, TexasProud said:

But I believed all of you and am in line for a shot because it

So....Pen made an absurd claim. Everyone refuted it. But now you’re believing it. You now believe that Biden is a body double because Pen said it and everyone refuted it.

And somehow, that links to how everyone said a vaccine is safe, but now you don’t believe that it is?

 

So, the more voices that tell you something, the less you believe it. The single lone voice that says something completely preposterous is what you believe. And then call it all “shades of gray.”

No. There is black and white.

Pen is wrong. Everyone else is right.

Biden is NOT a body double. Biden is in the White House.

Black. And white. 

[Moonhawk]

6 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Here's a link to the webcam of the Whitehouse.  There is clearly someone, probably a security guard, on the front porch. 

Yesterday I had done a huge long survey of WH footage to address the "same stock video" claims, wrote up a 5-6 paragraph post, etc. Then I realized it wasn't going to make a difference and deleted. 

I can say, though, from my video surveys, that the security guy that has to guard the front door looks pretty bored, no matter what time of day or weather he's got. Not that I blame him.

(Also, from my evidence gathering, I have made a conclusive study of Biden's ears as well. I think he has attractive ears, as far as old-man-ears go. Definitely passable, at the very least. In case you were wondering.)

[kokotg]

20 minutes ago, Moonhawk said:

 

(Also, from my evidence gathering, I have made a conclusive study of Biden's ears as well. I think he has attractive ears, as far as old-man-ears go. Definitely passable, at the very least. In case you were wondering.)

I looked into this yesterday after reading about it here, and Snopes has deep dived into the Biden ear mystery and concluded that, yeah, probably some plastic surgery going on there (which Biden has neither confirmed nor denied, I believe): https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/earlobes-biden-body-double/

[TexasProud]

4 hours ago, Cnew02 said:

Pen is using classic Q anon tactics and you are falling hook line and sinker for them. 

 

No I am not. I said I think Biden is real.

2 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

 

re manifold shades of gray

Yes, well, that is reality.  In simple stories, all the Good is clumped on one side and all the Evil is heaped Over There; the heroes are perfect and the villains wholly depraved.  In real life (and in real literature) people are nuanced, conflicts have multiple true tellings, there are no perfect simple solutions to complex problems. That really is how it is.

I feel like I woke up this year and the world went nuts. My world WAS black and white before Covid.

2 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Are you kidding me??? 

Are you kidding me???

Are you kidding me???

Alright - I want to talk to your sister who won't get the vax. Or maybe I'm confusing you with someone else. I'd like to speak with personally so you can provide proof of your identity. 

Back it up? I'm supposed to provide contact information for an ordinary person who attended a Whitehouse event last week to "prove" something to you? 

Do you have proof that you homeschooled this year? How do I even know that you have a child? DM me your contact information so I verify this for myself. 

I'm not offering up my friend for interrogation but here's a link to the c-Span recording of the event my friend attended. 

President Biden Delivers Remarks on Gun Violence Prevention

 

Sorry. I haven't been here that long, but it seems that Pen is a long time poster. I figured you had a connection, so it wasn't that big of a leap.  I do not need proof. But then again, I have had people (one in particular) who says a ton of stuff, but when you press him on it, he can never tell you or produce proof.  That is what it felt like.

1 hour ago, Moonhawk said:

 

---

@TexasProud I hope (and I'm sure) your vaxx appt has gone well, it's probably done and you're on with your day by now since I'm later to the thread. I think anxiety in one area can often spill over and color our perception of other areas, I hope you're feeling better soon and that things look a bit more clear once you have more space from your appt. 

Yes, that is part of it. It is not just that. I feel like I have been piled on in the last few days. ( Not here )

1 hour ago, Garga said:

 

So....Pen made an absurd claim. Everyone refuted it. But now you’re believing it. You now believe that Biden is a body double because Pen said it and everyone refuted it.

And somehow, that links to how everyone said a vaccine is safe, but now you don’t believe that it is?

 

So, the more voices that tell you something, the less you believe it. The single lone voice that says something completely preposterous is what you believe. And then call it all “shades of gray.”

No. There is black and white.

Pen is wrong. Everyone else is right.

Biden is NOT a body double. Biden is in the White House.

Black. And white. 

I am not believing that Biden is a body double. But the whole world seems to have gone nuts. I love my church. But yesterday I was subjected to an hour long discussion of how the denomination is a racist, sexist mess and if your church truly isn't like that you should leave. I was ganged up on by many members of the class. It is more nuanced than that. It is gray. 

I watched Winter Soldier and the police scene almost had me shutting it off a few weeks ago, but the ending of this last thing...  That is not an image I want in my head. But it feels like that is what everyone is saying, "Burn down America. it is a racist mess. " I do not see how we have a good guy coming out of all of this. My son thinks that Falcon will destroy the shield. What a metaphor.  I want happy stuff.

My uncle whom I am close to died 2 days ago. He was diagnosed with lung cancer  a month ago. Never smoked.  Part of it was because of what Covid did to the healthcare. His doctors didn't want to see him and/or just prescribed antibiotics so he wouldn't be exposed, etc. Bad part of how this affected the healthcare.  A gray area.  Virtual service, so no seeing relatives.

Another older man I really liked died a week ago. I and/or he hasn't been to church since Covid. I talked to him on the phone a few times. He was 95, but such an example of wisdom. Covid has robbed me of relationships.  

I shouldn't have posted on my phone because I did not explain that it wasn't Biden I was questioning.  But everything is getting so fuzzy about a lot of things in my head. Someone said about Christianity and Norse myths.  Honestly, I AM struggling with Christianity.  Who is to say it isn't a myth???  If all of these people who say they are Christians support Trump...  But then Biden has done so much I don't approve of also.  A gray area.

On here they talked about meat.  How we Americans are used to cheap meat, so we torture our livestock. Great. So now I have killed and tortured animals by my choices. Is there a gray area there..  I do not have the mental energy to think correctly about all of these things. 

So much feels gray. Arm sore, but that is it right now. Need to get back to work.