“Vocabulary is the key to reading comprehension”

[drjuliadc]

I am not trying to tell you that, I am trying to tell you that I didn’t know that. I subsequently figured out my first grader’s lag in reading comprehension compared to his very high decoding was because of a lack of vocabulary.

I recently read in the Memoria Press’s 1st or second grade scope and sequence, “Vocabulary is the key to reading comprehension.” After that I thought, “I wish I had read that before I had to figure it out on my own.” It took a pandemic forcing me to homeschool my son to do it.

He doesn’t glean meaning from context. It explains why he prefers chapter books with color pictures on every page.

Now I need to go read the rest of the grades’ scope and sequence. I am thinking there might be other gems in there.

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by drjuliadc
Typo

[8filltheheart]

Maybe, but maybe not.  Children learning to read often have to exert so much energy and attention to decoding that they have a hard time learning anything from what they are reading.  You say he has very high decoding.  Can he comprehend what he reads if it is below his reading level?  If you have him read aloud to you and encourage paying attention to punctuation so that pauses are interjected and sentences words stay together vs. running on together?  

If you read aloud complex stories to him with similar or even more elevated vocabulary, does he comprehend them?  If so, it probably isn't a vocabulary issue bc if can understand the vocabulary when you read it, he knows the vocabulary. 

Just throwing out that there can be lots of issues at play.  It could very well be vocabulary.  But, it could be a mix of other things as well.

[Jackie]

For me, this was always an issue. I read voraciously but didn’t always glean the meaning of unfamiliar words. Now, teaching my kid vocabulary and word roots, I have both the experience of explaining to her some context for he words and seeing a definition and thinking, “oh, *that’s* what that word means!?”

I loved going through MCT’s Caesar’s English with her because the author had studied what words came up most often in classic literature and used those as his vocabulary words. I knew the vast majority, but there were definitely words I had never figured out on my own.

[bookbard]

Certainly, children whose spoken (both what they can say and what they can understand by hearing) vocabulary is limited will struggle to read, compared with children who have a broad spoken vocabulary. However, reading is a great way to broaden that vocabulary! With some children you may need to be more explicit, asking 'do you know what that means?' when reading to them, and explaining it to them. A child won't pick up enough vocabulary just by reading 'readers'. Lots of reading with them, lots of conversations and stimulating experiences (time in nature, museums etc) will help.

If you feel your child struggles with understanding words that you feel they should know, you could try getting a speech assessment by a speech pathologist (I think they're called speech & language therapist in the USA?) 

[PeterPan]

11 hours ago, drjuliadc said:

He doesn’t glean meaning from context. It explains why he prefers chapter books with color pictures on every page.

I agree with @bookbard that it sounds like you need an SLP eval. While it's totally normal to enjoy books with pictures at this age and to benefit from some pre-instruction in specific vocabulary that will appear in the text, it sounds like your radar is saying more is going on. 

https://www.amazon.com/Reading-Strategies-Book-Everything-Developing/dp/032507433X/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3UVL7VCD3QQKG&dchild=1&keywords=serravallo+reading+strategies&qid=1617281830&sprefix=seravallo+reading+%2Caps%2C170&sr=8-5  This book has a lot of the normal reading comprehension strategies.

Fwiw, what I've read is reading is 80% prior knowledge. So comprehension involves not just vocabulary but bringing *all* your prior knowledge to bear. 

https://www.amazon.com/Word-Callers-One-One-Research-Informed/dp/0325026939/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1YJ8QE0A09Q2S&dchild=1&keywords=word+callers+by+kelly+cartwright&qid=1617282396&sprefix=word+callers%2Caps%2C166&sr=8-1  You might find some other issues in here that are affecting his comprehension. (metalinguistics, etc.)

Btw, there are SLPs who specialize in literacy, and they'll typically have more detailed tests. 

Edited April 1, 2021 by PeterPan

[8filltheheart]

I would not jump to LD conclusions for a 1st grader wanting pictures in thei books without more context.

[EKS]

11 hours ago, drjuliadc said:

“Vocabulary is the key to reading comprehension.”

Background knowledge is the key to reading comprehension.  There is a difference.  One way to build this this knowledge is spending lots of time listening to a parent read aloud and interacting with the parent about what has been read.  

11 hours ago, drjuliadc said:

He doesn’t glean meaning from context.

It's difficult to glean meaning from context when you're inexperienced in the world, as most first graders are.  This is another place where reading aloud with a parent comes in.  The parent can fill the gaps.  Also, when a person gleans the meaning of individual words from context, it doesn't always happen all at once.  It can take many encounters with a word to really get its meaning and internalize it.

That said, it's true that if the person reading doesn't know what a critical number of words mean in a passage that they won't be able to understand it.  But I would argue that this is less of a problem than a lack of experience in and knowledge of the world.

I highly recommend reading Why Knowledge Matters by ED Hirsch as well as the Read Aloud Handbook by Jim Trelease.

[drjuliadc]

13 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

Maybe, but maybe not.  Children learning to read often have to exert so much energy and attention to decoding that they have a hard time learning anything from what they are reading. 

It is funny you were the first one who responded because I was thinking about you when I wrote it, mainly because I figured this out through discussing books we read together.

I DID know that people who struggle to decode could have comprehension issues, but I am glad you brought that up again because I needed to be reminded of it. Not because of this kid.  He has been fluent and reads with inflection since he first could read.  All my kids read with proper inflection and pause at the right places and emphasize the right things very early.  This astonished me with all of them too.  Especially since not one of my three boys likes me to read to them and they HATE audiobooks.   

He wasn't behind in reading comprehension.  He was between 1st and second grade reading comprehension at the beginning of first grade.  He topped out their decoding testing at 8th grade, but it only went up that far.  He could decode like that from when he first started to read.  I actually don't think his decoding has improved one bit since he was 2, because it was perfect then.  His stamina has improved. I was just surprised that there was such a difference between decoding and reading comprehension. 

Once he was home with me at the beginning of the pandemic, I had him read every day from several Usborne book series I got with color pictures on every page.  I like the series because they are enough at his level that he enjoys them, but there are quite a lot of difficult words in them.  I would go through the book after the boys (1st and 3rd at the time) read them and ask them what each difficult word meant.  My 1st grader knew NONE of them.  The 3rd grader, my oldest, knew ALL of them.  My now 4th grader is just a boss at gleaning meaning from context.  He even told me he didn't know one of the words, but he figured it out by what was around it.

Once I knew this, it made sense.  I have to be explicitly taught things.  I don't read between the lines.

I needed to be reminded of the fatigue with decoding causing comprehension problems because it really is an important addendum to that quote.  The quote that is the title of this thread.

I am a fixer too Peter Pan.  I have learned a lot from you.  He isn't at the level of needing help, other than me going over vocabulary with him, but I always appreciate your input. He is neurotypical, but I like to fix little things too, even if they aren't at the level of needing another professional.

[drjuliadc]

9 hours ago, bookbard said:

Certainly, children whose spoken (both what they can say and what they can understand by hearing) vocabulary is limited will struggle to read, compared with children who have a broad spoken vocabulary. 

If you feel your child struggles with understanding words that you feel they should know, you could try getting a speech assessment by a speech pathologist (I think they're called speech & language therapist in the USA?) 

The first point is interesting to me because this child is quiet.  He doesn't say a lot.  His older brother, with the mad comprehension skills, talks a lot.  Oder brother's ability to narrate is awesome too. I never would have thought about the relationship if you hadn't brought it up.

None of the words he didn't know were something I thought a first grader would know.  Is it just me, or are British resources just better?  Maybe I just love Usborne.  I don't hear anyone here go on and on about them the way I would like to.

I guess it is just Usborne and alphablocks and numberblocks that I love.  I might be biased because my grandmother was British and my mother was an anglophile. I also find British entertainment and humor to seem more intelligent.  The humor seems more ironic, which I think takes someone of higher intelligence to come up with and understand.  It occurred to me that it might be coming from and be delivered to a better educated populace.

[drjuliadc]

3 hours ago, EKS said:

Background knowledge is the key to reading comprehension.  There is a difference.  One way to build this this knowledge is spending lots of time listening to a parent read aloud and interacting with the parent about what has been read.  

It's difficult to glean meaning from context when you're inexperienced in the world, as most first graders are.  This is another place where reading aloud with a parent comes in.  The parent can fill the gaps.  Also, when a person gleans the meaning of individual words from context, it doesn't always happen all at once.  It can take many encounters with a word to really get its meaning and internalize it.

That said, it's true that if the person reading doesn't know what a critical number of words mean in a passage that they won't be able to understand it.  But I would argue that this is less of a problem than a lack of experience in and knowledge of the world.

I highly recommend reading Why Knowledge Matters by ED Hirsch as well as the Read Aloud Handbook by Jim Trelease.

I don't think I see the distinction between background knowledge and vocabulary.  You either know the word's meaning or you don't. Why you don't know it seems to not matter to me.  It is probably one of those between the lines things I don't get.  Haha. Why Knowledge Matters is on my list to read.  I really think I need to. I totally agree with the premise. Thank you for the reminder.

I love the What Your X Grader Needs to Know books and I go through them with my kids.  I really like them and I have all the applicable grades.  I think Hunter said the older ones were better, so I got those.  I actually want to try the newer ones too after we are through with the older series.  If there is different content, I would like them to be exposed to that too.

Does anyone know the difference between the older and newer, What Your X Grader Needs to Know books?

[Emily ZL]

1 hour ago, drjuliadc said:

Especially since not one of my three boys likes me to read to them and they HATE audiobooks.   

I don't know that I would allow for this as a preference. To me, that's like saying my kids don't like math or church or baths. I mean, they can be more or less enjoyable, but they are important. Listening to high quality, complex language patterns read by a parent or on CD is very different from reading silently or out loud yourself. They internalize those structures. Read Aloud Revival does a great job making this case, but you will find it in many studies as well. The only thing that might be a good enough substitute IMO is memorizing older poetry. It's crazy to watch your children stumble over unfamiliar constructions and archaic words but then slowly become completely fluent in them, not fazed at all by "neither/nor" or "if I could but see you.." or "how doth" etc. 

I felt convicted by the need for some kind of read aloud, but my kids are good readers and I hate reading aloud. So my husband took over this job and reads one chapter per night. It's become a bonding thing for him and the kids. But he did have to just decree that it was happening, no choice. The resistance was only in the oldest boy, and he quickly got into it too. They all grew to love it.

 

 

 

[bookbard]

Just a point about audiobooks, I have them playing in the car on longer trips. That way we all listen to the story and can chat about it, plus the kids can't get up and turn it off! We do a lot of driving though. 

[Junie]

3 hours ago, drjuliadc said:

I don't think I see the distinction between background knowledge and vocabulary.  You either know the word's meaning or you don't. Why you don't know it seems to not matter to me.  It is probably one of those between the lines things I don't get.  Haha. Why Knowledge Matters is on my list to read.  I really think I need to. I totally agree with the premise. Thank you for the reminder.

I love the What Your X Grader Needs to Know books and I go through them with my kids.  I really like them and I have all the applicable grades.  I think Hunter said the older ones were better, so I got those.  I actually want to try the newer ones too after we are through with the older series.  If there is different content, I would like them to be exposed to that too.

Does anyone know the difference between the older and newer, What Your X Grader Needs to Know books?

I am currently learning Spanish, and so, in a sense, I am re-learning to read.  Of course, my decoding is pretty high because Spanish is easy to pronounce.  And lack of vocabulary is very much hindering my comprehension.  However, background knowledge is important.  I have  much better success if I am reading something that I am very familiar with.  For example: I have been a Christian for most of my life, so I have a lot of background knowledge of the Bible.  Reading the Bible in Spanish is much easier for me than reading a novel in Spanish.  I am able to read around the new vocabulary and determine the word's meaning more so than if I were reading a novel or even a short story.  Having that background knowledge is very helpful in understanding what the passage is saying.

[EKS]

4 hours ago, Emily ZL said:

I don't know that I would allow for this as a preference.

Same here.

It is really quite incredible the number of skills kids develop by listening to read alouds, especially complex text read aloud.  And that is in addition to the background knowledge they accrue.  But it can take some work to get them accustomed to listening.  

[Clemsondana]

I have seen both vocabulary and content knowledge be an issue for readers.  In my volunteer work, I was working with some beginning readers on a book with short a cvc words.  We had made it through 'A fat cat' but when the book added 'tan' so that we had 'A fat tan cat' most of the kids couldn't figure out tan.  They'd make the t sound and then get stuck because when they sounded it out they didn't get a word that they knew.  A couple looked at the picture and tried to substitute 'brown' even though it didn't fit.  

And, kids differ in their ability to infer meaning from context.  I hadn't realized this until I saw it with my own kids.  But, it may also be part of a general knowledge issue - my kid who is less good at inferring is less interested in knowing academic things, so, while comparably intelligent they are less knowledgeable than their sibling.  Or it could be a repetition thing - my more academically interested kid reads a lot, so they may be forming their knowledge of words by seeing them in many different contexts.

But, there is also a component of knowledge and experience.  My academics-loving kid has a very 'take things as they come' personality, with minimal angst and drama.  They read things like Moby Dick and Shakespeare for fun.  But, every now and then they'll struggle with a book that I didn't think was super difficult, like The Great Gatsby or some chapters of The Screwtape Letters.  What I'm starting to think is that they struggle when characters are behaving inexplicably.  They are fine with characters doing something different than what they would do, but I think they have difficulty when the characters are motivated by something that they don't understand...and as an early teen, and with their particular personality, there are emotions and motivations that they haven't really experienced yet.  This is somewhat different from content knowledge, but it's similar and fascinating to watch.  I've long been a fan of Hirsh and the importance of content knowledge.  Having realized that it's difficult but doable to read scientific papers outside my field of training but impossible to read something in spouse's tech field (and the reverse is also true), exposing my kids to a broad array of background knowledge so that they have context for what they read and hear was one of the goals of the elementary years for us.  

[EKS]

20 hours ago, drjuliadc said:

I don't think I see the distinction between background knowledge and vocabulary.  You either know the word's meaning or you don't.

Knowledge takes many forms.  You can know all of the words on the page and still have no clue what's going on.  For example, a first grader isn't going to understand a passage involving the nuances of adult relationships even if they understand all of the words.  Here's an article by ED Hirsch that talks about everything that goes into reading comprehension: https://www.aft.org/sites/default/files/periodicals/Hirsch.pdf.

[Lori D.]

23 hours ago, drjuliadc said:

...

You either know the word's meaning or you don't. Why you don't know it seems to not matter to me. 
... this child is quiet.  He doesn't say a lot...

Also just going to throw out this long shot idea: is there the possibility of hearing loss? Not enough that it would be clearly obvious, but enough that it could interfere with absorbing language/vocabulary? Just a thought.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Lori D.

[EKS]

47 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Also just going to throw out this long shot idea: is there the possibility of hearing loss? Not enough that it would be clearly obvious, but enough that it could interfere with absorbing language/vocabulary? Just a thought.

Another possibility is auditory processing problems.

[ElizabethB]

I had to explicitly teach my daughter how to infer vocabulary from context, she is very literal, and was more so when she was younger. It's a bit young to worry about and start teaching how to do that, though. 

I used CAP's Reasoning and Reading

https://classicalacademicpress.com/collections/reasoning-reading

as well as the 1879 McGuffey readers. I taught her how to guess from context, then check the definitions at the end, then go back and see how it worked in context. After doing this a while and going through CAP's book (she just needed the inference portion mainly), she figured it out and could do it on her own. 

My son, who is overall not good at Language Arts, figured that out on his own. He didn't figure out grammar on his own by my daughter did, she's really good at LA overall.

[drjuliadc]

I have put some effort into the audio book/or me reading to them thing. I ran out of effort for it. I know why they don’t like it. The same reason I don’t like it. I/we read very fast and it’s is painfully slow to listen to someone read. My fastest reader, the child this post is about, is my most vocal protestor.

I think he influences the others in joining him in protest.

They all overhear me reading to my daughter, who does like me to read to her and gets it daily. For now, I am just going with that. The youngest two, twin 5 year olds, do like dramatized audio. They have a Leapstory they like. It has many dramatized audiobooks on it. Yesterday. Dd5 grabbed her beauty and the beast picture book to follow along to the Leapstory audio version.

We haven’t been driving much, but I am going to push audiobooks when we do again. 

Re: hearing, auditory processing. This kid has near perfect pitch, so I think that is probably not an issue. It would have been if I kept letting him have dairy. He says, “What, what, what,” for a week after eating a speck of dairy.

Could a kid with way superior decoding skills still have auditory processing problems?

We explicitly worked on auditory processing with him by trying to teach him perfect pitch. Life altering dyslexia runs in the family and I was trying to intercept this as early as possible.

Edited April 3, 2021 by drjuliadc

[drjuliadc]

Thats a good idea to explicitly teach someone to infer from context. I don’t think I would have thought of that if someone hadn’t explicitly told me to. Haha.

By the way, his teacher told me it was his age that accounted for the spread between comprehension and decoding, which is basically saying it is his age/content knowledge. I just think hearing it is vocabulary seemed more actionable. I can’t change his age/experience, but I can explicitly teach vocabulary.

Also he is only 19 months younger than his older brother who knew 100% of the words he knew none of. They have had a similar life and experiences. 

This is really my skills kid and older brother is my content kid.

Edited April 3, 2021 by drjuliadc

[drjuliadc]

Dp

Edited April 3, 2021 by drjuliadc
Dp

[drjuliadc]

I really appreciate everyone’s thoughtful comments.

[8filltheheart]

I wouldn't be surprised if his lightning speed reading might be being reflected in his comprehension issues as well.

[drjuliadc]

7 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

I wouldn't be surprised if his lightning speed reading might be being reflected in his comprehension issues as well.

Oh yes. I’m sure.  I am not going to attempt to slow him down since his comprehension was ahead of grade level, just lagging decoding.

I got these vocabulary books and the kids really like them. They are fun and colorful. 

https://smile.amazon.com/Storytellers-Illustrated-Dictionary-Definitions-Students/dp/1999610784/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=mrs+wordsmith&qid=1617444923&sprefix=mrs+word&sr=8-5

https://smile.amazon.com/Storytellers-Illustrated-Dictionary-Definitions-Students/dp/1999610784/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=mrs+wordsmith&qid=1617444923&sprefix=mrs+word&sr=8-5

Oldest brother, dd9 at the time, said he knew every word in them too. There is a fun/colorful vocabulary curriculum for 5-10th grade that I bought from them (Mrs. Wordsmith) for him that I just printed 1/5 of last night.

I don’t like it as well as the books. It has a lot of workbook pages/exercises that might be overkill for the oldest. 1:5 of it was as large as one of the hardcover books I posted. One thing about having 4 kids is that when I buy something that one doesn’t need/like there’s almost always another kid who will.