Medieval and Reformation History reading list question--I need more I think?

[cintinative]

My son has far surpassed my expectations for his schedule so I am left with a hole. Incredibly, we are only at 107.6 hours.  Help?!

This is so far what he has done;

• Read, took notes, and completed brief quizzes on seven chapters of the History of Western Society Vol 1 and Sources from Western Society (college texts)
• Read the text and looked at maps in John Haywood's Historical Atlas of the Medieval World
• Watched all the videos on the Gospel Coalition's "History of the Medieval World" series 
• Read most of Augustine's Confessions (I think we skipped one or two chapters)
• Read all of Boethius' Consolation of Philosophy
• Read 124 pages of History of the English People by Bede
• Read all of Two Lives of Charlemagne
• Read all of Chronicle of the Fourth Crusade and The Conquest of Constantinople  by Villehardouin
• Read Memoirs of the Crusade by Al-Makrisi
• Read portions of Summa Theologica  (we used Summa of the Summa by Kreeft and only covered Part 1 Questions 1-6, 12, and 13)
• Read all of The Prince by Machiavelli
• Read all of Utopia by Sir Thomas Moore
• Read Of the Revolutions of the Heavenly Spheres by Copernicus
• Read portions of Institutes of the Christian Religion by Calvin
• We also completed study guide questions from Angelicum Academy/Great Books Academy and discussed all the above primary sources.
• Read relevant selections from Invitation to the Classics

 

As far as adding, I can add more from the Summa because we skipped a lot, and I could add more from the Institutes.  I could also add Pensees, which is kind of toward the very end of this time frame, or just beyond it.  I have already read Pensees (well, the selections that were picked)

I also have Medieval Lives by Terry Jones

@Plum I think you were doing medieval? @Lori D.??

Edited March 31, 2021 by cintinative

[Lori D.]

Only responding because you tagged me 😉 -- what you've already covered is way beyond what we did for history, so I doubt I can be of much help, 😉 but here goes: 

One approach would be to count credit by rigor and volume of *work completed*, not by hours, and if you have thoroughly covered the time period, through your extensive list of resources, then call it done, and disregard hour count.

Or, rather than more reading, possibly finish out your school year by "putting it all together" with some sort of project -- a lengthy research paper referencing the materials read, or perhaps several shorter papers each on a different topic. Or a paper plus a slideshow or video. Or a final lengthy presentation that pulls it all together. Or a note booking type of project with labeled maps and illustrations and a series of short informational essays on key people, events, the culture, etc. -- add to it until you reach the end of the semester, and call it done. Or, some other sort of project or "output" that would appeal to your DS and allow him to synthesize the material covered in his own creative way...

Or, if wanting to do more reading (or viewing), and willing to go beyond the current Western Civ focus you currently have , you could cover other areas of the world during the time period of 500-1500, such as the samurai and warlord culture of 12th-19th century Japan, and the major African kingdoms of the 8th-16th centuries.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Lori D.

[cintinative]

Oh @Lori D. I was so hoping someone would say just call it done.  😃  So, thank you!

I did propose a year end paper, so that could take maybe a week. I could also consider him doing a project--I will run that past him.  

I was kind of wondering about listing it as honors, though, and I don't know if that would be okay without reaching at least 120 hours. I'm such a box checker. This is hard. 

[Farrar]

One, I think you're done. There are different ways to count a credit. One is by time. But another is by material covered. This amount of material is clearly a course.

Two, if you really had to add something, I like Heretics and Heroes for a slightly more modern historical take on the period by Thomas Cahill. His bias is a bit Catholic leaning, but he's a compelling writer who summarizes a lot of the big ideas really well.

Or, you only focused on the Western world, but this is a period of huge flourishing in Africa and Asia, so you could do something less in depth to just check the box on those regions.

Or, I like Lori's idea of adding a culminating project. Given the academic nature of the course, I'd lean toward an academic research paper and focus on learning research methods. But anything could be possible.

[elegantlion]

I agree that you could call it done, maybe with a final paper. 

If the Medieval Lives you have is the Terry Jones version, I recommend it. Also if you want to add another reading David Carpenter's Magna Carta might be an option. 

If you want some fun reading, The Lais of Marie de France are a hoot. 

 

[Lori D.]

1 hour ago, cintinative said:

Oh @Lori D. I was so hoping someone would say just call it done.  😃  So, thank you!

I did propose a year end paper, so that could take maybe a week. I could also consider him doing a project--I will run that past him.  

I was kind of wondering about listing it as honors, though, and I don't know if that would be okay without reaching at least 120 hours. I'm such a box checker. This is hard. 

As Farrar says above, there is more than one way to count a credit -- it does not have to be rigor & volume of work AND hours.  😄 Counting hours is useful for things like music lessons/practice, or PE, or if it's an unusual DIY course and don't have traditional methods for comparing whether it's a full credit or not. Counting hours is not really needed (unless required by your state regulations) for things like completing a textbook, or dual enrollment, or when it's a full roster of work (like you have).

JMO: for calling it Honors, it would need some sort of culminating paper or project to synthesize what was learned.

[Lori D.]

1 hour ago, cintinative said:

I did propose a year end paper, so that could take maybe a week...

Just curious what you were thinking for a year-end paper?

To me, esp. with someone who is easily handling a rigorous reading load and completing it early, and if planning on calling the course "Honors", I would think this would need to be something like a 15-20-page paper with citations, that will require going back through the readings and videos for citing the different sources. That alone would take a few weeks just for the research aspect...

That would certainly make a great "capstone" to having absorbed all of the material in the big list of resources, and would be well-worth an Honors designation. 😄 Just a thought!

 

[cintinative]

13 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Just curious what you were thinking for a year-end paper?

To me, esp. with someone who is easily handling a rigorous reading load and completing it early, and if planning on calling the course "Honors", I would think this would need to be something like a 15-20-page paper with citations, that will require going back through the readings and videos for citing the different sources. That alone would take a few weeks just for the research aspect...

That would certainly make a great "capstone" to having absorbed all of the material in the big list of resources, and would be well-worth an Honors designation. 😄 Just a thought!

 

I have no idea. I know that is bad. I have some ideas for small papers but nothing for a research paper.   I really thought the reading would take him so much longer.  😃 

[Lori D.]

1 minute ago, cintinative said:

I have some ideas for small papers but nothing for a research paper...

Several shorter papers, each on a different topic, work great. Or, a project works great too, if he'd prefer that. 

Again, I'm no expert... Just throwing out ideas here. 😉 

[Lori D.]

re: 
That doesn't have to be YOU coming up with what to cover for a longer year-end research paper -- since it was DS who did all the reading, he would very possibly have some great ideas of what he'd want to write about, or do for a project, to "wrap it all up". 😉

[Farrar]

I just want to say that I don't think a final research paper should take a week. I just went through a 5 page research essay with my European history and literature kids and gave them essentially a month. Now, they were doing other work and readings at the same time, but for the kids who really did a great job on this assignment, they needed time to do the work, to learn to use library databases like Gale and JSTOR and to get books requested. They needed to learn to do in text citations as that was relatively new to most of them. They needed time to write and to revise. Like, for a proper research topic, I don't think a week is enough lead time. For a quick summary paper using mostly tertiary sources, sure. But considering the level of readings and work that you had him do, he is clearly ready to do more than that.

[Lori D.]

20 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I just want to say that I don't think a final research paper should take a week. I just went through a 5 page research essay with my European history and literature kids and gave them essentially a month. Now, they were doing other work and readings at the same time, but for the kids who really did a great job on this assignment, they needed time to do the work, to learn to use library databases like Gale and JSTOR and to get books requested. They needed to learn to do in text citations as that was relatively new to most of them. They needed time to write and to revise. Like, for a proper research topic, I don't think a week is enough lead time. For a quick summary paper using mostly tertiary sources, sure. But considering the level of readings and work that you had him do, he is clearly ready to do more than that.

Totally agree! It takes my co-op class students about 6-8 weeks to do a 4-5 page research paper with citations, depending on frequently I can schedule the different stages of the process. I have managed to push students through the process of writing a 2-3 page informational essay with citations, in 3-4 weeks. But that's with using very readily-available books/magazines and website articles, requiring only a minimum of 3 sources, ONLY informational, and no "thinking" / argumentative aspect to the essay, and not using any databases. 

Also totally agree that considering the level of material the OP's son covered for this course, it deserves spending the rest of the semester in developing a big paper or project to synthesize the learning. 😄 

[Farrar]

30 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Totally agree! It takes my co-op class students about 6-8 weeks to do a 4-5 page research paper with citations, depending on frequently I can schedule the different stages of the process. I have managed to push students through the process of writing a 2-3 page informational essay with citations, in 3-4 weeks. But that's with using very readily-available books/magazines and website articles, requiring only a minimum of 3 sources, ONLY informational, and no "thinking" / argumentative aspect to the essay, and not using any databases. 

Also totally agree that considering the level of material the OP's son covered for this course, it deserves spending the rest of the semester in developing a big paper or project to synthesize the learning. 😄 

I do have students write two or three page thesis based papers with given information in just a week pretty routinely. It's the research and organization piece, not the writing piece, that not only takes time, but should take time. I feel like when it gets truncated, that pushes kids to just use the internet as their source, which... the internet is a cruddy source.

[cintinative]

8 hours ago, Lori D. said:

 

Also totally agree that considering the level of material the OP's son covered for this course, it deserves spending the rest of the semester in developing a big paper or project to synthesize the learning. 😄 

I agree-- I hadn't planned for a research paper--maybe a longer essay.  He is just finishing a research paper for his writing class, but should be done by next week.  

I am having trouble coming up with a topic for a research paper for him other than something generic like life in the time of the medievals.  Probably about half of his primary source reading was in some way philosophy (political or social) so we would do something on that--but it would be tough. Maybe something like the different philosophies of the medieval time period--compare and contrast sort of thing?  I'm so bad with this stuff. There is a reason I farmed out writing.  😃

Edited April 1, 2021 by cintinative

[Farrar]

I think he should come up with the topic, but I'd guide him toward a topic that lends itself to some actual analysis. In a historical context, cause and effect are the easiest topics to tackle. What were the causes of/was the most important cause of ____? 

[cintinative]

I figured I'd update this for posterity's sake. 

He read Medieval Lives and then wrote a research paper on the Crusades.

Grateful to be done with this year's history. Onward!

[Lori D.]

Yea for done! 😄 And, great job, both of you!