The Governess Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 We are finally down to two choices in dd's college search. The issue is that one of them is more expensive than the other (probably $10k per year), and of course it is also dd's top choice and is the better fit. How do you decide if the extra cost would be justified? Some background: Dd wants to dance professionally. She will be majoring in ballet, but also adding a double major in math, thinking that she might like to teach math at the high school or possibly college level down the road. She will be transferring in enough DE credits to make this possible within four years at either school. She's graduating a year early so is on the young side. Assume that we wouldn't need to take out loans to pay for either school. Both schools are known for producing dancers that go on to dance professionally. Both aren't known specifically for their math programs, but it looks like they fall within the top 20% based on rankings I found. The one that is the better fit meets what she is looking for in terms of campus size, smaller class sizes, type of ballet training, type of performance opportunities. It is a small liberal arts college and the other is a large state school. Her top choice's advisor has also given her a lot of help in terms of figuring out what a double major would look like and answering her other questions. She was able to visit this school in person; we have yet to visit the other school. Perspective from those who have had to make similar decisions would be much appreciated!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSprout Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 Will you be able to visit the other school before you decide? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 (edited) Has she reached out to the 2 depts at the state school? Has she asked them the same sorts of questions that the smaller school has answered? Edited March 30, 2021 by 8filltheheart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 4 hours ago, MamaSprout said: Will you be able to visit the other school before you decide? We are going to try to visit next week, depending on my comfort level on traveling. 4 hours ago, 8filltheheart said: Has she reached out to the 2 depts at the state school? Has she asked them the same sorts of questions that the smaller school has answered? She hasn't reached out yet other than to send her CC transcript to her advisor with questions. She needs to dig a bit more now and reach out to each department, as well as to someone that can help her figure out how her credits transfer, since her advisor didn't give her any answers on that either. This is the first time (out of 3 attempts) that this advisor has actually replied to an email, so I guess that's something, although his response felt pretty dismissive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSprout Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 (edited) A dismissive advisor, and especially if DE courses don't transfer, could cost her another year of school. Edited March 30, 2021 by MamaSprout 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilaclady Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 1 hour ago, MamaSprout said: A dismissive advisor, and especially if DE courses don't transfer, could cost her another year of school. I won’t necessarily say that. Some schools especially state schools don’t just have the bandwidth available to answer students that have not yet committed to their school. My dd reached out to her advisors but did not receive any help until almost first year admissions but they were quite helpful after that. But that may be part of what you are paying $10,000 extra for. I will echo what 8 had said- meet up with the other school and then take it from there. there is usually more than money when it comes to college if you can afford it. If you have to take out loans I won’t advise it but if you won’t, you may consider fit more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 There may be more opportunities to make friends in the big state school. Also, I try not to assume, but the Math Dept. in the big state school may offer a lot more to your DD than in the smaller school. There are pros and cons to both and you need to evaluate. One can be left out in a small school, although many people think a huge school is cold and impersonal it may be the other way around. Good luck with this decision your DD will need to make. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teachermom2834 Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 I would definitely still keep trying to check out the big school. Sometimes you just get a bad interaction but it isn't indicative of the whole system. Given your dd's goals I would keep asking about how it will work out with the de classes and double majoring. I think it is great that your dd is following her dreams and that she has a backup plan. I am around dance just enough to hear a few things but I am not up on dance schools at all so I am definitely not in the know- however- it seems I hear that some colleges are very encouraging and supportive of dance majors having a double major and other colleges really are not. I would definitely weigh how supportive the dance department is of having students double major. It sounds like the small school is very supportive. $10,000 is alot of money. However, you, I am sure have already invested alot in dance training. If the small school really is better for dance training for her, and is supportive of her double major, then it might not be a bad decision at all. If it gets her closer to her dance goals, and she can clearly see how to secure her back up plan without an extra year, it might not really work out to be a $40,000 loss. Only you know your financial situation and how that difference in cost would play out in your family. I am very much about the bottom line cost in college decisions, but it seems there is a lot to consider here. I don't think you'd be crazy to go for the first one if it works for your family. The small size and engaged advisor might also make me feel better with a younger student. It sounds like your daughter is very talented and has some exciting opportunities ahead. Good luck with your decision. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 One consideration is how class times and availability will affect her finishing on your timetable. Since dance and math are not complementary disciplines will she run into scheduling conflicts on a regular basis? Will the smaller college have enough sections available to avoid those conflicts? Also, if she's interested in teaching math, will she need education classes to be certified for high school teaching? What graduate level would allow her to teach math at the college level? In our area you need a master's at least to teach at community college and a PhD to teach at the university. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 (edited) On 3/30/2021 at 9:14 AM, Lilaclady said: I won’t necessarily say that. Some schools especially state schools don’t just have the bandwidth available to answer students that have not yet committed to their school. My dd reached out to her advisors but did not receive any help until almost first year admissions but they were quite helpful after that. But that may be part of what you are paying $10,000 extra for. I will echo what 8 had said- meet up with the other school and then take it from there. there is usually more than money when it comes to college if you can afford it. If you have to take out loans I won’t advise it but if you won’t, you may consider fit more. Yes, I don’t know how much help to expect an advisor to give a non-enrolled student. But the help is very much appreciated when it is given! Edited May 10, 2021 by lovelearnandlive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 2 hours ago, teachermom2834 said: I would definitely still keep trying to check out the big school. Sometimes you just get a bad interaction but it isn't indicative of the whole system. Given your dd's goals I would keep asking about how it will work out with the de classes and double majoring. I think it is great that your dd is following her dreams and that she has a backup plan. I am around dance just enough to hear a few things but I am not up on dance schools at all so I am definitely not in the know- however- it seems I hear that some colleges are very encouraging and supportive of dance majors having a double major and other colleges really are not. I would definitely weigh how supportive the dance department is of having students double major. It sounds like the small school is very supportive. $10,000 is alot of money. However, you, I am sure have already invested alot in dance training. If the small school really is better for dance training for her, and is supportive of her double major, then it might not be a bad decision at all. If it gets her closer to her dance goals, and she can clearly see how to secure her back up plan without an extra year, it might not really work out to be a $40,000 loss. Only you know your financial situation and how that difference in cost would play out in your family. I am very much about the bottom line cost in college decisions, but it seems there is a lot to consider here. I don't think you'd be crazy to go for the first one if it works for your family. The small size and engaged advisor might also make me feel better with a younger student. It sounds like your daughter is very talented and has some exciting opportunities ahead. Good luck with your decision. Thank you! Yes, we have already eliminated a few schools that don’t encourage or allow double majoring. And I’d rather her not be stuck taking the majority of her second major classes at night or online. I’ve been looking at the spring schedule of classes for each school to get a feel for what the schedule would actually look like, and that has been helpful. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 2 hours ago, elegantlion said: One consideration is how class times and availability will affect her finishing on your timetable. Since dance and math are not complementary disciplines will she run into scheduling conflicts on a regular basis? Will the smaller college have enough sections available to avoid those conflicts? Also, if she's interested in teaching math, will she need education classes to be certified for high school teaching? What graduate level would allow her to teach math at the college level? In our area you need a master's at least to teach at community college and a PhD to teach at the university. Yes, I’ve been looking into this. At the smaller school there are fewer class offerings but they seem to be at times that work with the ballet class schedule. We need to check into this more at the state school. To teach, she would need education classes and would have to do student teaching. She wouldn’t be able to do student teaching simultaneously with the ballet major. So the idea is for her to get the math degree now and either teach at a private school part time or tutor while she dances to supplement her income, then go back to school later and get her masters in math education.... or more if she is interested. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 I think that’s great that she can continue both, and math teachers are always in demand. No advice, but I’d want to make sure that at the large school, students CAN finish in 4 years (some schools are so crowded people take 5-6 years) and the small school will certainly offer the required classes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewnameC Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 The state school should have a transfer course chart online somewhere, so she can check what classes her DE classes will count as. Also, the exact course schedule is probably available online for the big state u. See if you can find this term’s schedule online and then work from there to see if all her classes are offered each term. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 We found a form to contact the registrar about transfer credits and sent in a transcript. Hopefully we get a response back! Knowing how many GE requirements would be fulfilled would be a big help. Small school is counting 19 credits toward specific required courses and the rest toward general electives (she has around 40 credits). Once we get that info back she can reach out to the specific departments and get their feedback on how realistic completing this double major would be in 4 years. That will at least give us that piece of info. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsie Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 As far as an advisor getting back to a student who has not enrolled, it really depends upon how the school does advising. The advisor may be familiar with advising students with courses required for a major, but they may not be the decision maker or have any idea of what DE math, history, English, etc. class transfers. That may all be handled at the admissions/registrar level. If the primary goal is professional dancing, I would ask some very specific questions about the professional careers of graduates. Many college programs are more about preparing people for careers in dance, such as set design, lighting, costume, teaching, but not necessarily performing. I know some dance majors that can get the number of credit hours, and even schedule classes, to be a dual major. However, when it really comes down to a major in a very different subject it becomes difficult. The out-of-town coreographer comes to town for a week and wants to schedule rehearsals, which will ne at non dance class times, but they conflict with the math class times. Or, the student is performing for several days in a row at times that are not designated as "class times" but conflict with other classes. It is often the extra rehearsals that really get in the way of double majoring. Are there other costs to consider at the two schools? Travel back and forth? Does one have a pointe shoe fund and the other she will have to purchase her own? Etc. I don't think that you will find that a Return on Investment calculation will justify the added cost. For example, I don't think, if the goal is dance, that one school will result in a significant increase in salary over the other. The same with teaching high school math. School districts generally don't pay more depending upon which school you get your degree from. I think it depends really on how easily you can afford the different schools and how much difference you think there might be to personal and emotional development at the two schools. $30k-$40K is not a small amount, but in the big, life-time scheme of things is driving older cars and purchasing one less car over a life-time worth the difference in the two schools? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 I would recommend different contacts. She can email the dean of both depts and ask them her questions and who to contact if they are not the correct people. The Dean's should either respond or forward her email to the correct individual. I also agree a previous poster that a course equivalency transfer cr system should exist online for the state school and she should be able to look up by the exact school where she DE and see course by course if it will transfer in. Some may say dept review required, but many will already be listed as to what course equivalent they will give cr or not for. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 16 hours ago, NewnameC said: The state school should have a transfer course chart online somewhere, so she can check what classes her DE classes will count as. Also, the exact course schedule is probably available online for the big state u. See if you can find this term’s schedule online and then work from there to see if all her classes are offered each term. Part of the challenge with catalog schedules is they can be a lot more fluid than one might think. While courses might be projected to be offered, there is no guarantee until the course schedule for the semester is released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewnameC Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 I don’t know about projected classes. I do know That I can look at the actual class schedules online from the past terms and see exactly who taught it, the time it was taught and how many people were in it. I have done that to see if a bad professor was the only option for a class in the past like she was for the upcoming semester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted April 1, 2021 Author Share Posted April 1, 2021 23 hours ago, Bootsie said: If the primary goal is professional dancing, I would ask some very specific questions about the professional careers of graduates. Many college programs are more about preparing people for careers in dance, such as set design, lighting, costume, teaching, but not necessarily performing. I know some dance majors that can get the number of credit hours, and even schedule classes, to be a dual major. However, when it really comes down to a major in a very different subject it becomes difficult. The out-of-town coreographer comes to town for a week and wants to schedule rehearsals, which will ne at non dance class times, but they conflict with the math class times. Or, the student is performing for several days in a row at times that are not designated as "class times" but conflict with other classes. It is often the extra rehearsals that really get in the way of double majoring. Are there other costs to consider at the two schools? Travel back and forth? Does one have a pointe shoe fund and the other she will have to purchase her own? Etc. I don't think that you will find that a Return on Investment calculation will justify the added cost. For example, I don't think, if the goal is dance, that one school will result in a significant increase in salary over the other. The same with teaching high school math. School districts generally don't pay more depending upon which school you get your degree from. I think it depends really on how easily you can afford the different schools and how much difference you think there might be to personal and emotional development at the two schools. $30k-$40K is not a small amount, but in the big, life-time scheme of things is driving older cars and purchasing one less car over a life-time worth the difference in the two schools? Thank you! We did a lot of research into which schools were placing dancers into professional companies, and both of these schools do that. Not for all graduates, of course, but they both have good track records. They are definitely preparing them for performing, and both degrees would be BFA degrees in performance. So the schools are pretty equal in that regard. The way the ballet departments tell it at the Q&As we attended, double majors are encouraged and they are willing to work with second major in terms of scheduling conflicts. Many of the smaller school dancers do have double majors, at least from what I see on social media and from asking around. I'm not sure how prevalent they are at the larger school. I think schools are realizing that more students will pay money for a ballet degree if they can double major and get their money's worth while they do so, and are becoming more accommodating. Other costs - smaller school is farther away and travel costs would be a bit more. No pointe shoe funds anywhere - I wish! As for ROI - yes, I don't think there would be a salary advantage with either school. I'm mostly trying to figure out what price tag we should be willing to pay for a program and campus that feel like a perfect fit vs. a serviceable fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted April 1, 2021 Author Share Posted April 1, 2021 13 hours ago, 8filltheheart said: I would recommend different contacts. She can email the dean of both depts and ask them her questions and who to contact if they are not the correct people. The Dean's should either respond or forward her email to the correct individual. I also agree a previous poster that a course equivalency transfer cr system should exist online for the state school and she should be able to look up by the exact school where she DE and see course by course if it will transfer in. Some may say dept review required, but many will already be listed as to what course equivalent they will give cr or not for. They have a system, but only for in-state colleges, and we are out of state. So going through admissions seems to be the only option, at least that I can see. Hopefully they will get back to us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 You've gotten great advice in this thread. I would just add that even at schools that produce dancers who go on to companies, they tend to be the elite of the elite at those schools and have to really push themselves harder than everyone else. So having the right fit for the dance program is absolutely paramount. What that looks like your her is going to depend on her and what helps her be her best self as a dancer. I find that dancers, especially in ballet, have strong opinions about what they want in a class syllabus and what style of teaching. And I find that programs tend to be along the same lines. It's not like in, say, a random history department where different teachers are going to be different. A program in dance is cohesive. Was the audition a class? Usually the audition class is reflective of the style. Was she able to take class at either? Or with any of the faculty? To me, those are the most key questions. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted April 1, 2021 Author Share Posted April 1, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Farrar said: You've gotten great advice in this thread. I would just add that even at schools that produce dancers who go on to companies, they tend to be the elite of the elite at those schools and have to really push themselves harder than everyone else. So having the right fit for the dance program is absolutely paramount. What that looks like your her is going to depend on her and what helps her be her best self as a dancer. I find that dancers, especially in ballet, have strong opinions about what they want in a class syllabus and what style of teaching. And I find that programs tend to be along the same lines. It's not like in, say, a random history department where different teachers are going to be different. A program in dance is cohesive. Was the audition a class? Usually the audition class is reflective of the style. Was she able to take class at either? Or with any of the faculty? To me, those are the most key questions. I wish she had been able to audition in person. 😭 Covid really made this a challenge. She was able to visit small school and the dance department, and was supposed to observe class, but classes ended up being cancelled that day due to a performance, which was a bummer. We were able to watch a couple recent virtual performances from this year and those were very impressive and in line with the type of rep that she would like to perform. So she at least was able to do that. For the audition she had to record herself doingset combinations that they provided a recording of using one of their students. They were challenging and she enjoyed them even though it meant doing a specific 30 minute audition video just for this one particular school. So, she has some idea of the style of their training and has liked what she’s seen so far. But no opportunities to take class, which is part of the reason why the decision is so hard. She doesn’t have a clear idea of large school’s style of training or rep. They seem to be more ABT/American but eclectic. Their faculty definitely come from a wider range of training backgrounds and there has been more turnover in their faculty (small school’s instructors all have the same background and there is hardly any turnover). She hasn’t been able to find any recent performances to watch. When she reaches out to the ballet department she will definitely ask if there are any performances available for viewing or if there are any opportunities to observe class. The audition for this one was just a list of steps she needed to execute and she put the combinations together herself, so no real feel for what class would be like. Edited April 1, 2021 by lovelearnandlive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 1 hour ago, lovelearnandlive said: I wish she had been able to audition in person. 😭 Covid really made this a challenge. She was able to visit small school and the dance department, and was supposed to observe class, but classes ended up being cancelled that day due to a performance, which was a bummer. We were able to watch a couple recent virtual performances from this year and those were very impressive and in line with the type of rep that she would like to perform. So she at least was able to do that. For the audition she had to record herself doingset combinations that they provided a recording of using one of their students. They were challenging and she enjoyed them even though it meant doing a specific 30 minute audition video just for this one particular school. So, she has some idea of the style of their training and has liked what she’s seen so far. But no opportunities to take class, which is part of the reason why the decision is so hard. She doesn’t have a clear idea of large school’s style of training or rep. They seem to be more ABT/American but eclectic. Their faculty definitely come from a wider range of training backgrounds and there has been more turnover in their faculty (small school’s instructors all have the same background and there is hardly any turnover). She hasn’t been able to find any recent performances to watch. When she reaches out to the ballet department she will definitely ask if there are any performances available for viewing or if there are any opportunities to observe class. The audition for this one was just a list of steps she needed to execute and she put the combinations together herself, so no real feel for what class would be like. I don't feel like performances are going to tell you the style of the class. I know less about dance departments, but certainly in companies, the performances tend to range while the core syllabus and style stays the same. Beyond observing class, has she connected with any students at either school? I think that's what she really needs to do. IME, ballet students can talk pretty clearly about their experiences with their training programs and what the strengths and weaknesses are. Hearing from someone actually in these programs would probably help her a lot. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted April 1, 2021 Author Share Posted April 1, 2021 29 minutes ago, Farrar said: I don't feel like performances are going to tell you the style of the class. I know less about dance departments, but certainly in companies, the performances tend to range while the core syllabus and style stays the same. Beyond observing class, has she connected with any students at either school? I think that's what she really needs to do. IME, ballet students can talk pretty clearly about their experiences with their training programs and what the strengths and weaknesses are. Hearing from someone actually in these programs would probably help her a lot. She has from the smaller school. A friend a couple years older than her from our studio is currently there and loves it. I’ve also connected with a mom there and asked her a lot of questions. We don’t know anyone at the larger school, but she was connected with a dancer there through Instagram and has asked her a couple questions. It’s hard because everyone seems to have only positive things to say. I know the performances won’t give much info on class style, but they will give an idea of the rep she’d be auditioning for/performing, and that’s important to her too. She loves story ballets and there are a lot of programs that don’t do them much anymore, or will just do excerpts here and there. She likes contemporary ballet, and modern, but would like to balance that with traditional rep. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 22 minutes ago, lovelearnandlive said: She has from the smaller school. A friend a couple years older than her from our studio is currently there and loves it. I’ve also connected with a mom there and asked her a lot of questions. We don’t know anyone at the larger school, but she was connected with a dancer there through Instagram and has asked her a couple questions. It’s hard because everyone seems to have only positive things to say. I know the performances won’t give much info on class style, but they will give an idea of the rep she’d be auditioning for/performing, and that’s important to her too. She loves story ballets and there are a lot of programs that don’t do them much anymore, or will just do excerpts here and there. She likes contemporary ballet, and modern, but would like to balance that with traditional rep. Positive for the person having the experience and right for her are really different. I guess I'd encourage her to look past "I love it" to see the why and ask her own questions. Regardless, it sounds like these are two really good options. The money is obviously a big deal, but congrats to her on having two options she feels she can fall in love with. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted April 2, 2021 Author Share Posted April 2, 2021 We've made a little progress on transfer credits. The registrar told her to input her classes into the the online transfer system (the one that the website said in-state students should use). So we did that, and it gave equivalencies for three of her twelve CC classes. The other nine are not in the system and might count but will need to be reviewed. Sent screenshots of that info to the registrar and they basically said that the review process would not be happening right now, but that she could make an appointment to talk to a transfer advisor. We'll see if they will talk to her; the advising site says that appointments are only for students who have gone through orientation. Do students really commit to schools without knowing if any of their credits will transfer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsie Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 Transfer credit can be tricky. The course may "transfer" but it may not count toward degree requriements for a particular major. For example, DS had a math class that would transfer and count for the math he needed to take if he was a philosphy major, but it would not count toward the math he needed if he was going to be a business major. So, the math class would count as an "elective" if he was a business major, but he already had more electives at the freshman/sophomore level than he needed. It is very time consuming on the part of a school to look at individual classes that they are not familiar with, determine an equivalency at that university, then see how they might meet degree requirements for an English major, but the student wants to double major in Chemistry, when the university knows that majority of students change their major, so the student may really be a business major, when they do not even know if the student will enroll in the school. Add to that the fact that degree requirements can change from year to year, so if the student enrolls in fall 2021 the answer may be different than if the student enrolls in fall 2022. Many schools, especially state schools, just do not have the resources to spend that much time for each student who may choose to go to the school. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 (edited) On 3/30/2021 at 2:37 PM, lovelearnandlive said: Yes, I don’t know how much help to expect an advisor to give a non-enrolled student. But the help is very much appreciated when it is given! A departmental advisor will not be able to answer questions about transfer credit for courses that have not yet been evaluated by the school. The evaluation has to be performed by the credit granting department, and you'd have to submit syllabi and materials; the director for undergraduate studies in that department or the person teaching the equivalent class would be the ones to make the call. You cannot expect an answer from the advisor. Edited April 2, 2021 by regentrude 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 (edited) 56 minutes ago, lovelearnandlive said: . Do students really commit to schools without knowing if any of their credits will transfer? Yes. Both of my kids graduated highschool with lots of college credit, and it was very questionable whether anything would transfer at all (none did for DD; DS may have gotten credit for one or two courses) It was not something that affected our college decision. Edited April 2, 2021 by regentrude 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted April 2, 2021 Author Share Posted April 2, 2021 20 minutes ago, regentrude said: A departmental advisor will not be able to answer questions about transfer credit for courses that have not yet been evaluated by the school. The evaluation has to be performed by the credit granting department, and you'd have to submit syllabi and materials; the director for undergraduate studies in that department or the person teaching the equivalent class would be the ones to make the call. You cannot expect an answer from the advisor. Ok, thanks. My only other experience with this was at the smaller university, where the admission advisor put us in touch with a transfer advisor that got back to us the next day with course equivalencies for all of dd's classes, and then ran everything by the ballet and math departments for us. I realize now that this is not the norm! 19 minutes ago, regentrude said: Yes. Both of my kids graduated highschool with lots of college credit, and it was very questionable whether anything would transfer at all (none did for DD; DS may have gotten credit for one or two courses) It was not something that affected our college decision. Because dd really wants to be able to double major in four years, and can't do that without transfer credits, it sounds like this has become a relatively more important issue for us. 46 minutes ago, Bootsie said: Transfer credit can be tricky. The course may "transfer" but it may not count toward degree requriements for a particular major. For example, DS had a math class that would transfer and count for the math he needed to take if he was a philosphy major, but it would not count toward the math he needed if he was going to be a business major. So, the math class would count as an "elective" if he was a business major, but he already had more electives at the freshman/sophomore level than he needed. It is very time consuming on the part of a school to look at individual classes that they are not familiar with, determine an equivalency at that university, then see how they might meet degree requirements for an English major, but the student wants to double major in Chemistry, when the university knows that majority of students change their major, so the student may really be a business major, when they do not even know if the student will enroll in the school. Add to that the fact that degree requirements can change from year to year, so if the student enrolls in fall 2021 the answer may be different than if the student enrolls in fall 2022. Many schools, especially state schools, just do not have the resources to spend that much time for each student who may choose to go to the school. Thanks. I do understand the dilemma and realize my expectations were a bit high. It just isn't making our decision-making process very easy! At any rate, it feels like the small school will offer her a lot of support in navigating this, and at the state school she would be more on her own to make things work. The credits might all transfer just fine, but we'd be dealing with uncertainty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 If your only contact with the big school is admissions and the registrar's office for the transfer credit, you really dont have an understanding of depts or the school. Those are not the contacts i would use to determine fit. Has she heard back from the 2 depts? She should share her dilemma with them and see what they say. Our ds was able to work with a dean who gave him the dept contacts who evaluated his transfer cr concerns and were able to confirm if they would transfer. (For him it was probably less complicated bc it only involved 2 depts, not gen Ed's going across a lot of different ones.) If the depts have no interest in answering her questions or trying to help, then that I would interpret as her having to be more on her own. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoes+Ships+SealingWax Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 (edited) From all you’ve said here, it seems the smaller school has quite a few valuable intangibles to offer - more individualized attention, a peer/mentor already at the school, straightforward communication between departments that makes double-majoring feasible (further supported by the number of double-major dancers you’ve noted). If I’ve read your comments above correctly they are transferring around double the credits as equivalent, rather than elective-only (19hrs vs ~9hrs, correct?). That’s huge! What she’s attempting isn’t easy; each of those things has the potential to streamline her experience so that she can focus on her coursework. Edited April 3, 2021 by Shoes+Ships+SealingWax 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 On 4/2/2021 at 10:51 AM, lovelearnandlive said: We've made a little progress on transfer credits. The registrar told her to input her classes into the the online transfer system (the one that the website said in-state students should use). So we did that, and it gave equivalencies for three of her twelve CC classes. The other nine are not in the system and might count but will need to be reviewed. Sent screenshots of that info to the registrar and they basically said that the review process would not be happening right now, but that she could make an appointment to talk to a transfer advisor. We'll see if they will talk to her; the advising site says that appointments are only for students who have gone through orientation. Do students really commit to schools without knowing if any of their credits will transfer? Has she reached out to advising at her current school to see if they can help at all? In our transfer process (not dance), the current school was sometimes able to give us info that was not as easily obtainable from the transfer school before admittance. They would know things like whether anyone else from their school has ever transferred to that state school you are considering. They would also know things like how commonly their credits are accepted by other schools. That’s no guarantee of course, but it might give you an indication of how easy or difficult the process is going to be of having her credit evaluated. I don’t know that it would be any additional information, but you could check transferology.com to see if you can figure out anything that way, although I would think that their online transfer system would have the same information. I feel for you! We were in a position where we really couldn’t afford to have credits not transfer, and planned our kids courses around credits that would automatically transfer. That was also easier here because we were going in-state. And even in that process, we were always told by advisers at the transfer schools that nothing is guaranteed, and that you just can’t know 100% until you have that final transcript evaluation done by the school after they have been accepted. I think even under the best of circumstances, the advisers have to be very cautious and measured in what they say, and not promise that things are going to transfer. I hope things go well and your daughter enjoys the program at whichever school she ends up choosing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuckoomamma Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 I echo Farrar’s sentiments about different dancers having different needs and fits. Faculty will have very different backgrounds, styles and teaching philosophies and your dd will definitely want a feel for that when making the choice that’s right for her. Your dd should be able to attend class virtually so she can take all of that in. My two dd’s have auditioned for a particular SI four times between the two of them, and this year the teacher leading the audition was very abrasive and not at all like the other experiences. Fortunately, dd had other options, but I would never choose that SI if there was the possibility dd would be in that teacher’s class. So, even though it was a good fit stylistically, it wasn’t one of dd’s or my top choices. Otoh, dd loved loved loved another audition and just finished a week of classes over spring break and had a fantastic experience. She loved the style of ballet, the combinations, the other dancers and the teachers. IMO, the ballet will make it break it and I’d leave no stone unturned in figuring out if it’s a good fit. I’d recommend contacting as many dancers as possible and those who have graduated will feel most free to share their experiences. We know several dancers who have had less than ideal experiences and are very careful in their wording. I’d listen super closely to what they say in order to understand the messages they’re trying to convey. As you know, ballet is a super small world. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewnameC Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 On 3/30/2021 at 6:13 PM, lovelearnandlive said: We found a form to contact the registrar about transfer credits and sent in a transcript. Hopefully we get a response back! Knowing how many GE requirements would be fulfilled would be a big help. Small school is counting 19 credits toward specific required courses and the rest toward general electives (she has around 40 credits). Once we get that info back she can reach out to the specific departments and get their feedback on how realistic completing this double major would be in 4 years. That will at least give us that piece of info. Is there a 4-year degree plan for both majors available for the small school? If so, I would suggest printing one of each and crossing out what required classes she will have credit for and highlighting which ones she may have credit for. Then, make a schedule by moving up classes to see if the double major can be done in 4 years when you take out the classes you know she’ll get credit for now. If it looks like it can be done (or almost done), then it is time to start checking to see if she will have the prerequisites done for the classes she wants to move up and if classes are offered every term. Putting things on paper is helpful to catch possible problems. When we were talking college costs with an investment advisor, I told him I thought his costs for future college costs was low. He said it was because the normal kid costs, like dance costs and food and more water etc, will no longer be part of the household budget. (Not sure I bought it, but the money you have been spending on dance will handle some of the price difference between the schools.) it seems to me you have done a great job at looking at everything, so I’m sure you have asked about extra fees for dance majors or dance classes, etc) We were spoiled and never had an issue finding transfer credit lists even for out of state schools, and I agree with you that, she needs to know what classes will transfer to make an informed decision. Keep asking if she is still interested in that state school. Look at the schools listed on that school’s transfer credit info and see if any of those lost your daughter’s CC. It would be great to be able to say, you think science 101 taught at this other school is worthy of credit and that other school will give credit for her science for its science 101 class. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted May 10, 2021 Author Share Posted May 10, 2021 Thanks, everyone, for all of the input. She ended up deciding on the smaller school. I have a feeling that if we had moved forward with the larger school, the credits would have ended up working out. But she felt such a strong connection with the smaller school’s program and campus that we decided it was worth the extra money it would take to send her there. And after more discussions with a few of her dance instructors, it does seem that the quality of the smaller school’s dance program is higher as well. She’s excited for fall and I am relieved that a decision has been made! 😅 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourisenough Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 Congratulations to your DD! As you know, I have such fond feelings toward the smaller school 😍 and think she made the right decision! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted May 11, 2021 Author Share Posted May 11, 2021 21 hours ago, fourisenough said: Congratulations to your DD! As you know, I have such fond feelings toward the smaller school 😍 and think she made the right decision! Thanks so much!! ❤️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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