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There is much talk on getting the vaccine for obvious reasons but I'd like to hear from those who are "not" planning on getting the vaccine and what led to your decision.

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For what it's worth, my husband studies toxic torts -- so, essentially, products that turned out to be dangerous -- and he maintains that the things to *really* worry about are (1) things that you con

re scale of vaccinations vs Covid confirmed cases Responding just to this one part of your post-  As of yesterday, there have been 137 million vaccine doses into US arms:https://www.bloomb

For me it’s pretty simple.  Covid is known to cause death, and the mechanisms by which it does are known.  If someone has Covid and dies in the way that Covid is known to kill then Covid is a likely c

If I could live a normal life without getting it, then I would have waited 4 to 5 years. I do not believe we have enough research. But I cannot live that long without people, so I caved and got it.

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Just now, TexasProud said:

If I could live a normal life without getting it, then I would have waited 4 to 5 years. I do not believe we have enough research. But I cannot live that long without people, so I caved and got it.

I really think this is what it comes down to. More time for research would be fabulous, but the potential risks of the vaccine are far smaller than the potential risks of covid infection; we need only look at the numbers of hospitalizations and deaths per million cases of covid compared to hospitalizations and deaths per million vaccine doses administered to understand this. Unless I plan to live as an isolated hermit in my own home for the next few years my best hope is to get the vaccine.

I get my second dose on Monday 🙂

 

I do know a couple of people with tricky medical issues such as autoimmune disorders who have been counseled by their doctors to wait; they've also been counseled to continue to take extreme precautions to avoid covid exposure.

There are also some who are not planning to get the vaccine because they have already had covid. There's some evidence that the vaccine provides stronger immunity than covid infection but the relative benefit is probably a lot smaller as compared to the benefit of vaccination for someone who has not had covid.

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I chose the J&J vaccine to minimize chances of a reaction with a second shot. Several other people I know with autoimmune issues did too. Most of them felt very sick for a few days after the shot but are glad they got it. 
 

I also ordered another round of elixa probiotics to take a few days before & several days after my vaccine. It cured my food allergies so my thought was it might help prevent an allergic reaction.

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As with others I’d love to have a vaccine with five years of data but we can’t so we will get what we can and be a data point when the time comes.  I will probably still delay for the kids assuming the low Covid situation hasn’t changed.

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28 minutes ago, Katy said:

I chose the J&J vaccine to minimize chances of a reaction with a second shot. Several other people I know with autoimmune issues did too. Most of them felt very sick for a few days after the shot but are glad they got it. 
 

I also ordered another round of elixa probiotics to take a few days before & several days after my vaccine. It cured my food allergies so my thought was it might help prevent an allergic reaction.

The one I give to Dd is 90 billion which I thought was relatively high but couldn’t find anything higher contained in one capsule. I don’t think it has done anything for her except better gut health, though the last skin test was in 2019. Did your allergies require an epipen? She has an appt next month with an allergist and one of the questions I want to ask is if it’s ok for her to get the vaccine when she turns 16. 

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I am in the “not right now” camp.  It doesn’t mean I will never get it but I am waiting for right now.   How long, I dunno.  But, I have already had Covid so my waiting isn’t really all that risky anyway.  If/when I do get it, it will probably be J&J because of the convenience of one shot vs two.  

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Most (maybe all?) of the people I know who aren't getting it don't do other vaccines either. It seems like most people who are selective with vaccines (me) decided to go ahead and get it. But those who don't do any vaccine (and I'm not going to degrade them with "anti-vax" because that's such a charged word and I know their stories and they have legit reasons behind their decisions) are certainly not doing this one.

 

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So we've already had a thread where I had a terrific meltdown over the vaccination rate for workers at my dad's assisted living. It's about 65% last I heard, which is higher than average, WAY higher than average for some states. I think in our very fine state they're around 43% acceptance for vaccines in the health care community. I mean, it's crazy. 

So that said, my dad had a severe inflammatory response and went from walking to in a wheelchair. They've been treating the bejeebies out of him, with shots and Lyrica and more, but it clearly aggravated a pre-existing condition which is a pattern I've seen in the news. So that has given me *pause* about taking it for myself because I've spent the last 4-5 weeks treating with HBOT the inflammation from my sledding concussion. That concussion was probably my 5th head injury in the last 3 years, and I have at least 1-2 more weeks of treatment before I'm likely to be finished. 

They will not allow anyone in for HBOT who has had either covid or the vaccine in the last 30 days, because they don't want the confusion of what side effects are from the HBOT and what are from the vaccine. They also (obviously) don't want the virus in their chambers. And I have the concern that inflammation from the vaccine would aggravate my known condition with the concussions that involves inflammation.

So I had previously assumed I would go ahead and take the shot (I have asthma), but at this point I have counterbalancing concerns. I don't think it's rational for me to take it right now, and honestly I live a significantly away from social, distanced life. I wear Happy Masks and our state numbers are so low that the likelihood of you getting it even if you didn't mask is pretty low. It's more important to me right now that I treat my concussive injuries and get my brain function back, kwim?

My deadline of truth will probably be cruising next year. I'm booked for a cruise and this particular line has not said whether they'll require them or not. I think their *inclination* is not to require them, but it's not clear how it will pan out. I think as an adult who needs to stay well to care for my ds that cruising will be safer and lower risk if I take the vaccine, even if it's not required. I also assume there will be an update to the vaccine after this initial round of vaccination is done. It just makes sense. The way these vaccines are made, they run the new genome through, computer generate the new vaccine, and boom. (oversimplification) So if my main goal is to be safe to go cruising in 2022, then it seems more rational for me now to wait, finish my treatments for my concussive injuries, let that inflammation go down, and consider the vaccine 2.0 in 2022.

If it weren't for the cruising issue, I probably would take my chances and skip the vaccine entirely. It's just issues to balance, the risk of traveling and getting sick abroad with it (and not being able to care for my ds with SN) vs. the risk of inflammation. But for now I could sign up and am not because it's really not the right time.

Edited by PeterPan
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Waiting.  I believe I have already had it, but I don’t do well with vaccines anyway.  So with a broken hand I don’t want to sidetrack my body from laying down the healing foundation by purposefully creating an immune response.
 

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53 minutes ago, Katy said:

I also ordered another round of elixa probiotics to take a few days before & several days after my vaccine. It cured my food allergies so my thought was it might help prevent an allergic reaction.

Can you tell us more about this? How long did you take Elixa? How long before you knew it helped with food allergies? Were these traditional allergies diagnosed with a skin test or some sort of intolerance? We have food issues in my house and I'd love to find ways to help.

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I'm hesitant due to an auto-immune condition. I might do the J&J, but I can't find it. I have come across slots for other manufacturers, but haven't found a J&J appointment. I might be waiting a while since the governor decided to fully open the tiers next week so it will be even harder to get a slot now I imagine. 

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1 hour ago, maize said:

I do know a couple of people with tricky medical issues such as autoimmune disorders who have been counseled by their doctors to wait

 

43 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I have a friend who isn't getting it because she has an auto-immune disorder. I don't personally know that she did that risk assessment correctly, but that's her reasoning. 

Interesting. My rheumatologist is like a million percent for getting the vaccine. The last time I saw him he walked in the exam room and the first thing out of his mouth was "So you need to get the vaccine as soon as you possibly can." And from what I'm reading on the medical boards I belong to almost all AI patients are being given the same advice by their rheumies, and cancer patients by their oncologists (DH's oncologist certainly wanted him to get it ASAP). I want it because I have AI issues. Long Covid sounds to me as if it may be at least partially AI in nature, and viruses have long been suspected of being triggers for AI illnesses. It seems more logical to me that the vaccine would protect me from that than it's likely to trigger something itself. If I didn't already have those AI things going on I wouldn't be nearly as concerned about it.

I know a few vaccine hesitant people. One person got the vaccine because she ultimately felt it was the right thing to do to help protect everyone, although I suspect she's already kind of wishing she hadn't gotten it (she's never been very consistent in her opinions, is easily swayed by the most recent person she talked to, etc.). One couple has decided to get it because they believe they won't be able to travel like they want to w/o it (and I'm guessing they're right about that, as they like to do lots of cruises).

I'd really, really like for us to reach herd immunity, but because I do try to hold myself to consistent positions I'm okay with people making their own choices about what to do with their bodies.

Edited by Pawz4me
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Thanks, everyone.  Yes, everywhere I turn people are talking about getting the vac.  I'm interested in people who are waiting b/c they feel it might be safer to wait.

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2 minutes ago, sheryl said:

I'm interested in people who are waiting b/c they feel it might be safer to wait.

For what it’s worth, while that may be true for some people with known reactions, it seems unlikely to be true on average.

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The vaccine they're doing was computer generated once they got the genome (yes?) and substantively the same now as it was a year ago. It's a  technology they had employed for other treatments. To me the scandal is that they HAD it and let thousands of people die while they "tested" it. Nothing changed, the treatment is what it is. 

I mean, I guess someone can hold out 5 years as whatever bizarre patterns become apparent, but they'll just deny those patterns are happening, just like they do with power lines, cell phones, cigarrettes, anything else. In the meantime you could also get the disease and have long covid and not be very happy about that. 

I'm not exactly pro vaccine and I take the NVIC newsletters for a reason, lol. But very few people are outright dying from it and there seem to be patterns to those reactions, usually with known pre-existing conditions or having recently had covid or even being outright positive for covid when they walked in and took the shot. 

So I go back to the question, what changes? Right now you have the legal right not to take it, which I think is good. But if you wait 5-10 years to look at long term safety, how did that keep you well from the disease now? It's just a choice and saying what risk you're willing to take. 

I could understand if this was a live virus vaccine and you wanted attenuated or if it was only being made in versions with aluminum or mercury and you wanted a version free of that. Then waiting would change something. But what does waiting change? Is there a version you're holding out for or something you think would be safer?

Edited by PeterPan
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Personally, I think there's an argument that the vaccine will become less necessary as the levels go down and anti-virals specific to covid are developed. I read an article about (I forget the company, maybe Merck?) working on an antiviral. At first they were thinking vaccine, but when theirs bombed they went toward treatments. To me, that would be like the flu, where we have a vaccine and we have Tamiflu for people who are higher risk who get it.

I think antivirals and having those available will be the out for people who for whatever reason are not taking the vaccine. But we aren't there yet.

Edited by PeterPan
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People I know who are waiting cite a few reasons:

1. Their risk of hospitalization or death from Covid is very small. (Meaning, they’re younger, healthier, not obese, don’t have other known risk factors for complications, etc.). 
2. They want long-term studies. While they see that people aren’t falling over dead immediately after getting a shot, they still want to see, for example, whether the vaccine impacts fertility. Conventional medicine has been wrong in the past, sometimes to tragic results, so they’d rather wait for more comprehensive, long-term data. 
3. They already had Covid and figure their natural immunity is just as good as anything the vaccine can offer. At least for now. 
 



 

 

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Originally I was deferring simply because of my autoimmune.  Then the JAMA came out with a study relating to outcomes and risk factors that show my risk is much higher than originally believed.  I spoke with my neurologist and have been vaccinated.  

Edited by melmichigan
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For me, waiting is about seeing what happens longer term and also as larger and differing populations get it.  It’s about what the longer term data says. 
 

And, since I have already had Covid, I am not taking on much risk by waiting.   Reinfection is really rare.  
 

Also, I have heard some indications that for those who have already had Covid, the second shot can produce the pretty intense reactions.  Waiting can give time for more data to be gathered regarding that sort of thing.  
 

 

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1 hour ago, crazyforlatin said:

The one I give to Dd is 90 billion which I thought was relatively high but couldn’t find anything higher contained in one capsule. I don’t think it has done anything for her except better gut health, though the last skin test was in 2019. Did your allergies require an epipen? She has an appt next month with an allergist and one of the questions I want to ask is if it’s ok for her to get the vaccine when she turns 16. 

It’s not a single capsule, it’s a daily package of capsules to take on an empty stomach. I think there’s 6 per package but it may be 8.  The initial reaction I was given an epi-pen, but I was on round 6 or 8 of pneumonia & was given an antibiotic I was also allergic to at the same time. I think that’s what triggered the food allergies to wheat & chia. After that if I got a trace amount of white flour I broke out in hives. I never needed to use an epipen after that first time though, it was mild enough that benadryl would work. 

1 hour ago, JumpyTheFrog said:

Can you tell us more about this? How long did you take Elixa? How long before you knew it helped with food allergies? Were these traditional allergies diagnosed with a skin test or some sort of intolerance? We have food issues in my house and I'd love to find ways to help.

I followed the directions of another poster here. I ordered the 4 course package from their website. I took the whole package of daily capsules on an empty stomach first thing in the morning. Then I followed that with some greek yogurt with a tablespoon of potato starch mixed in every morning. 

I felt a bit better in a couple of days but I wasn’t sure if it was real or a placebo effect. I felt like I was craving healthier foods (I specifically remember craving cucumber slices instead of the potato chips DS asked for), and when I had a bite of gluten free cupcake or whatever I would have inhaled before I thought, “Hmm, this is okay, but it’s not what I want.”  

After the four 6-day courses I tried something very small that I knew was contaminated with wheat.  I think it was a piece of Turkey jerky. It  had given me hives before (Homemade by a relative who swore it was gluten free but never checked the soy sauce ingredients). I waited a few hours with no reaction and had a tiny bite of white bread. No reaction. I waited until the next day and had half an oatmeal cookie. No reaction. At that point the plan was to wait a full day for anything else but I got so excited I think I had white bread with dinner. 

I have had whole wheat and chia seeds since, no reaction, but I still think the taste of both is repulsive. 

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29 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

The vaccine they're doing was computer generated once they got the genome (yes?) and substantively the same now as it was a year ago. It's a  technology they had employed for other treatments. To me the scandal is that they HAD it and let thousands of people die while they "tested" it. Nothing changed, the treatment is what it is. 

I mean, I guess someone can hold out 5 years as whatever bizarre patterns become apparent, but they'll just deny those patterns are happening, just like they do with power lines, cell phones, cigarrettes, anything else. In the meantime you could also get the disease and have long covid and not be very happy about that. 

I'm not exactly pro vaccine and I take the NVIC newsletters for a reason, lol. But very few people are outright dying from it and there seem to be patterns to those reactions, usually with known pre-existing conditions or having recently had covid or even being outright positive for covid when they walked in and took the shot. 

So I go back to the question, what changes? Right now you have the legal right not to take it, which I think is good. But if you wait 5-10 years to look at long term safety, how did that keep you well from the disease now? It's just a choice and saying what risk you're willing to take. 

I could understand if this was a live virus vaccine and you wanted attenuated or if it was only being made in versions with aluminum or mercury and you wanted a version free of that. Then waiting would change something. But what does waiting change? Is there a version you're holding out for or something you think would be safer?

Hi.  Well, I never addressed if I was for/against the vac.  Everyone "seems" to be jumping on board; I'm simply asking for input on other side (yes, use "safer" or whatever - I've listened to podcasts on both sides).  I wouldn't get hung up on word "safer".  Simply asking for representation of folks who decline the vaccine and for what reason.   Again, I've listened to medical personnel on both sides.

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What I’ve heard from friends in medical research and biotech say is that EUA is not the same as FDA approval. The EUA means it is “reasonable to believe” that the drug “may be effective.” This “may be effective” standard is a much lower level of evidence compared to the “effectiveness” standard the FDA uses for product approvals. 

Edited by SDMomof3
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I'm waiting and will decide at a later date.  I'm perfectly content staying home and avoiding people.  This last year has been a dream come true for me on an emotional level because I no longer have these social obligations to go places, do things, run to activities yada yada yada that leave me so emotionally depleted.  I've thrived with the current protocol.  A little piece of me cries every time I hear that something is reopening because I know it's means I'm going to get dragged into the precovid mayhem of running around, taking kids places etc. There is only so many things I can opt out of without my kids suffering so at some point I'll have to step back into society but I'll drag my feet as long as possible.  Since I'm in no hurry to return to "normal" and there are so many people who are desperate to get the vaccine and can't because there isn't enough supply, I'll happily stand by, stay home and let them go first.  

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We’re waiting due to autoimmune disorders, fighting inflammation and previous vaccine reactions.  I don’t know if the benefits will outweigh the risks for us in the future, but right now there isn’t enough data for me to feel comfortable.  We’re also fine with continuing to stay home, masking, etc.  

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2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

 

Interesting. My rheumatologist is like a million percent for getting the vaccine. The last time I saw him he walked in the exam room and the first thing out of his mouth was "So you need to get the vaccine as soon as you possibly can." And from what I'm reading on the medical boards I belong to almost all AI patients are being given the same advice by their rheumies, and cancer patients by their oncologists (DH's oncologist certainly wanted him to get it ASAP). I want it because I have AI issues. Long Covid sounds to me as if it may be at least partially AI in nature, and viruses have long been suspected of being triggers for AI illnesses. It seems more logical to me that the vaccine would protect me from that than it's likely to trigger something itself. If I didn't already have those AI things going on I wouldn't be nearly as concerned about it.

I know a few vaccine hesitant people. One person got the vaccine because she ultimately felt it was the right thing to do to help protect everyone, although I suspect she's already kind of wishing she hadn't gotten it (she's never been very consistent in her opinions, is easily swayed by the most recent person she talked to, etc.). One couple has decided to get it because they believe they won't be able to travel like they want to w/o it (and I'm guessing they're right about that, as they like to do lots of cruises).

I'd really, really like for us to reach herd immunity, but because I do try to hold myself to consistent positions I'm okay with people making their own choices about what to do with their bodies.

I have two autoimmune diseases, diabetes 1.5 and Hashimoto’s. I am 55. My doctors both said absolutely to get the vax. Very emphatic. I have no history of severe reactions to vaccines or anaphalaxis.
 

I got my second dose of Moderna with typical, unpleasant, but not severe after effects.

 

Edited by ScoutTN
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3 hours ago, maize said:

I really think this is what it comes down to. More time for research would be fabulous, but the potential risks of the vaccine are far smaller than the potential risks of covid infection; we need only look at the numbers of hospitalizations and deaths per million cases of covid compared to hospitalizations and deaths per million vaccine doses administered to understand this. Unless I plan to live as an isolated hermit in my own home for the next few years my best hope is to get the vaccine.

I get my second dose on Monday 🙂

 

I do know a couple of people with tricky medical issues such as autoimmune disorders who have been counseled by their doctors to wait; they've also been counseled to continue to take extreme precautions to avoid covid exposure.

There are also some who are not planning to get the vaccine because they have already had covid. There's some evidence that the vaccine provides stronger immunity than covid infection but the relative benefit is probably a lot smaller as compared to the benefit of vaccination for someone who has not had covid.

I sm a very complicated patient w lits of autoimmune issues- every one of my doctors recommended vaccine extremely strongly- rheumatologist. Pulnonologist, infectious disease doctor, wound care professionals, my primary care, neurologist, etc, etc

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54 minutes ago, cjzimmer1 said:

I'm waiting and will decide at a later date.  I'm perfectly content staying home and avoiding people.  This last year has been a dream come true for me on an emotional level because I no longer have these social obligations to go places, do things, run to activities yada yada yada that leave me so emotionally depleted.  I've thrived with the current protocol.  A little piece of me cries every time I hear that something is reopening because I know it's means I'm going to get dragged into the precovid mayhem of running around, taking kids places etc. There is only so many things I can opt out of without my kids suffering so at some point I'll have to step back into society but I'll drag my feet as long as possible.  Since I'm in no hurry to return to "normal" and there are so many people who are desperate to get the vaccine and can't because there isn't enough supply, I'll happily stand by, stay home and let them go first.  

Yeah, me too! 😄

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55 minutes ago, cjzimmer1 said:

I'm waiting and will decide at a later date.  I'm perfectly content staying home and avoiding people.  This last year has been a dream come true for me on an emotional level because I no longer have these social obligations to go places, do things, run to activities yada yada yada that leave me so emotionally depleted.  I've thrived with the current protocol.  A little piece of me cries every time I hear that something is reopening because I know it's means I'm going to get dragged into the precovid mayhem of running around, taking kids places etc. There is only so many things I can opt out of without my kids suffering so at some point I'll have to step back into society but I'll drag my feet as long as possible.  Since I'm in no hurry to return to "normal" and there are so many people who are desperate to get the vaccine and can't because there isn't enough supply, I'll happily stand by, stay home and let them go first.  

Me too, I’m going to take my time. 😊

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I'm in the not right now, need more long term data camp. I'm not against taking the vaccine, but I will need much more long term data than the short amount currently available. 

Which apparently means several people will unfriend me since I won't line up instantly to get my vaccine as soon as available as that means I am not taking this seriously (learned this from reading part of the other thread).  
 

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My medically complex dd(19) with two ultra rare diseases that affect immune system has had first dose.  Her specialists highly encouraged her to have it as soon as it was available.  (she has had anaphylactic reactions to plasma and hives with other things along with food allergies so I called day before vaccination just to confirm we were making right decision).  No reaction for her other than tired.  Rest of us are working on getting it.  Husband is going today, dd with asthma first week of April, I'm still looking for one for me.  I kind of prioritized those with  underlying conditions first.  I tend to be pretty healthy so I'm the last one on the list.  Youngest is still to young, older boys are adults and can choose for themselves when their group comes up.

  

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5 hours ago, sheryl said:

There is much talk on getting the vaccine for obvious reasons but I'd like to hear from those who are "not" planning on getting the vaccine and what led to your decision.

I'm not planning to, but I am not immovable. Here's what I want in a vaccine:

  • Actual immunity. Chicken pox and small pox and MMR actually immunize, so that the chances of getting the diseases are infinitesimal. Right now, the vaccines just sort of keep you from being rilly, rilly sick if you do get it. And if it's going to need to be an annual vaccine, like the flu vaccine (which I also don't get), then TPTB should be open about it. They are not (possibly because they just don't know, which does not give me confidence).
  • Because why would I get a vaccine that might not keep me from getting the disease at all when there are already documented reports of people dying after receiving the vaccine. Not anaphylactic, but just going to sleep and dying.
  • Not made from aborted fetal cells.
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1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

I sm a very complicated patient w lits of autoimmune issues- every one of my doctors recommended vaccine extremely strongly- rheumatologist. Pulnonologist, infectious disease doctor, wound care professionals, my primary care, neurologist, etc, etc

Same experience with my kid with autoimmune diseases - doctors were all of the opinion that a vaccine might trigger a flare, but not as badly as getting the disease (this was in regards to vaccines in general, not this one in specific)

17 minutes ago, Ellie said:

I'm not planning to, but I am not immovable. Here's what I want in a vaccine:

  • Actual immunity. Chicken pox and small pox and MMR actually immunize, so that the chances of getting the diseases are infinitesimal. Right now, the vaccines just sort of keep you from being rilly, rilly sick if you do get it. And if it's going to need to be an annual vaccine, like the flu vaccine (which I also don't get), then TPTB should be open about it. They are not (possibly because they just don't know, which does not give me confidence).
  • Because why would I get a vaccine that might not keep me from getting the disease at all when there are already documented reports of people dying after receiving the vaccine. Not anaphylactic, but just going to sleep and dying.
  • Not made from aborted fetal cells.

- early on we didn't have data on the immunity part, but now the numbers look really good for it. Just took a while to get those numbers. Pfizer is looking to be 94% effective at preventing ALL infection, even asymptomatic. https://www.abc10.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/new-study-shows-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-is-94-percent-effective-in-preventing-asymptomatic-infection/77-5df72296-e47b-496f-88c9-8b3c1e7b0ab4

- well, there are a lot more reports of people dying after Covid the disease than Covid the vaccine, so that would be my reasoning as to why to get the vaccine. 

-I do not believe there are fetal cells in any of them? Johnson and Johnson was 'developed" using fetal cell lines, but Pfizer and Moderna were not - but after coming up with the vaccine they did test them on cells that were from fetal cell lines. https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-the-covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells

Edited by ktgrok
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Well, I wasn't going to respond since you were looking specifically for people who had decided not to. I chose to get it and advised DH to. My family listens to me too much. 

But I will wait to advise DS 21 and DD 18 until vaccine appointments are going unfulfilled so there is a little more time to see how things go. I will then research each one that is locally available and look for the one I think best. Those who are desperate for a vaccine then will not have to wait while my low risk kids get it and I will have more time to decide. I was perfectly willing to be one of the early adopters myself though.

My daughter says she wants to do the "responsible thing" . I think she wants me to just tell her what that is but I really want to just give her all the facts or where to get them and let her make her own decision. My guess is she will want to help with herd immunity if she can. My kids trust me too much. I try to tell them they are supposed to rebel and exert their independence 😂 but it doesn't work. 

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26 minutes ago, Ellie said:

I'm not planning to, but I am not immovable. Here's what I want in a vaccine:

  • Actual immunity. Chicken pox and small pox and MMR actually immunize, so that the chances of getting the diseases are infinitesimal. Right now, the vaccines just sort of keep you from being rilly, rilly sick if you do get it. And if it's going to need to be an annual vaccine, like the flu vaccine (which I also don't get), then TPTB should be open about it. They are not (possibly because they just don't know, which does not give me confidence).
  • Because why would I get a vaccine that might not keep me from getting the disease at all when there are already documented reports of people dying after receiving the vaccine. Not anaphylactic, but just going to sleep and dying.
  • Not made from aborted fetal cells.

Evidently, the Chicken Pox, shingles, and rubella vaccines (among others) also used fetal cells in their development.  

https://www.khou.com/article/news/verify/johnson-and-johnson-aborted-fetal-cells-verify/285-6d4fe5ba-3763-4d4e-ba32-294f3fa39020

From the article:

(Dr. Amesh Adalja, a Senior Scholar at Johns Hopkins who treats infectious disease, critical care and emergency patients and also works on pandemic policy.)

Dr. Adalja says, while the COVID-19 vaccine is getting a lot of attention right now, fetal cell lines are used to make many vaccines.

“The Chicken Pox vaccine, the shingles vaccine, the hepatitis A vaccine, the rubella vaccine, one of the rabies vaccines, all used fetal cells. So, this is nothing new,” Adalja said.

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23 minutes ago, frogger said:

Well, I wasn't going to respond since you were looking specifically for people who had decided not to. I chose to get it and advised DH to. My family listens to me too much. 

But I will wait to advise DS 21 and DD 18 until vaccine appointments are going unfulfilled so there is a little more time to see how things go. I will then research each one that is locally available and look for the one I think best. Those who are desperate for a vaccine then will not have to wait while my low risk kids get it and I will have more time to decide. I was perfectly willing to be one of the early adopters myself though.

My daughter says she wants to do the "responsible thing" . I think she wants me to just tell her what that is but I really want to just give her all the facts or where to get them and let her make her own decision. My guess is she will want to help with herd immunity if she can. My kids trust me too much. I try to tell them they are supposed to rebel and exert their independence 😂 but it doesn't work. 

Congratulations on being a great parent. My parents were both far more rebellious than me too. As a result they never tried to control me and were always honest. So I never had a reason to rebel, plus their rebellion in the 1960’s & 70’s was so dangerous I never would have done any of it anyway. 

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I've read that we don't know whether the fetal cell line came from an elective abortion or a miscarriage. This article is about a Filipino priest who is also a molecular biologist. 

Quote

To begin with, Austriaco said that in the case of several vaccines, the stem cell line utilized is called HEK-239, which was derived from an aborted fetus in the Netherlands in 1972-73. At the time, he said, abortion was still illegal in the Netherlands, and it’s entirely possible that the type of abortion involved wasn’t elective – it could have been a natural miscarriage, he said, or a “therapeutic” abortion performed to save the life of the mother.

Filipino Expert Urges American Catholics to Rethink Rhetoric on Vaccines

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For me-  I want long term data ( 5+ years) on those with auto immune issues before I will consider it.  I tend to react badly to stuff and my last reaction to a vaccine was something horrible. My doctors all agree that I should not consider it yet.  DD and DS-  all of their doctors say they should wait for awhile. We are complex so that is why their specialists and mine are all in the wait camp.  Plus, we all had Covid and still a year later have tested for immunity.
 

 

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My boss was going to wait, ostensibly until he could get J&J, maybe longer; he was never hip on getting the vaccine. But now that he sees the extreme PITA chain reaction that happens when a contact has a contact with Covid, he told me today, he is scheduled for the first Moderna April 14th. (I suspect his wife also persuaded him.) 

My dh was planning to wait for some indefinite date in the future, but now he has COVID, so it is moot for a while. 

My mother is planning to wait because she does not want to experience side-effects and feels that her level of caution will keep her safe until then. 

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I would like to wait to see more long term data, but because several of us are higher risk for complications, we will be getting it as soon as possible.  The only one I am hesitant about is for my youngest, who won't be eligible until October.  He has had severe vaccine reactions in the past, so I am concerned about that along with his history of other allergic reactions.  When it is closer to his birthday we will be having a talk with his allergist about it and get his opinion.

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53 minutes ago, Quill said:

My boss was going to wait, ostensibly until he could get J&J, maybe longer; he was never hip on getting the vaccine. But now that he sees the extreme PITA chain reaction that happens when a contact has a contact with Covid, he told me today, he is scheduled for the first Moderna April 14th. (I suspect his wife also persuaded him.) 

My dh was planning to wait for some indefinite date in the future, but now he has COVID, so it is moot for a while. 

My mother is planning to wait because she does not want to experience side-effects and feels that her level of caution will keep her safe until then. 

Glad that your boss is changing his mind.  

How long does your dh have to wait if he wants to get a vaccine now? 

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27 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Glad that your boss is changing his mind.  

How long does your dh have to wait if he wants to get a vaccine now? 

I think they said the antibodies last around 3 months from the infection. I think when I got the vaccine, they asked me if I had had COVID within the past three months. 

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I would love to have waited a few years too. Lack of data also one of my concerns and DH's concerns as well. He doggedly holds on to the argument about the anthrax vaccine mandate for the military where later there were a lot of adverse reactions. Because of that, he doesn't trust anything coming out of the government about these vaccines. He certainly doesn't trust the drug companies. But me...I just want to see my grandchildren. I have seen my 7 month old grandson for less than a week out of his whole life. I can't stand that.

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The three reasons I've personally heard for not vaccinating are:

Inconvenience - this person is not anti-vaccine, if person's doctor offers vaccine at next visit, person will be vaccinated.  But, person is not willing to jump through hoops trying to get vaccinated.  Person has already had COVID and feels risk of re-infection is slight.  (Others have offered to schedule a vaccination appointment, person has declined.) 

Needle-phobia - another person dislikes needles and unless vaccine is mandated, person will not get vaccinated.  Person is young and healthy and feels personal risk of severe COVID is slight.  

And lastly, I know a person who believes COVID is a liberal conspiracy.  This person feels vaccination is not necessary because COVID doesn't actually exist.  

Everyone else I know has been vaccinated, is anxiously awaiting the chance to be vaccinated, or is being quiet about not planning to be vaccinated.  

If the vaccine for teens <16 were available now, my teens would be lining up to receive it.   A young teen exposed during an outbreak in a local school passed COVID on to the teen's immune-compromised mother.  The teen had mild symptoms.  The mother died. 

 

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I have some vaccine hesitancy. This because I don’t personally fear Covid, everyone I’m visiting this summer overseas (and the worst fear is me catching sth on a plane and giving it—I get tested right before) has already had covid. But I’m traveling again this summer and I just think it will be easier, stress wise. I would have preferred to wait for J&J vaccine, but I’m scheduled to get the Pfizer in 2 weeks. Why? Because my son and I (due to years long work with a food nonprofit) suddenly became eligible and my son is absolutely gung ho on being vaccinated. If he’ll be injected with something, I might as well be too 😉 not very logical but here we are. dH not eligible and I’m begging him to wait for J&J because he has RA. (In remission). 

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8 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

 dH not eligible and I’m begging him to wait for J&J because he has RA. (In remission). 

is there evidence that Pfizer or Moderna are more likely to cause problems with RA?

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